Bike not starting...did I cause it?

[creamygoodness]

Downed bike three weeks ago, rode it home fine.

Since then been repairing cracked fairings, also installed a Signal Dynamics Headlight modulator, two Fiamm loudass aftermarket horns, changed brake fluid, changed coolant.

The headlight modulator and horn install went fine, both work as intended...

Brake fluid was fine...

However tonight after I drained the old coolant, filled radiator with distilled water, and tried to start the bike in order to cycle the water around...the bike wouldn't start.

Afraid that all the tinkering with the headlights and horn would drain the battery, I trickle charged the battery from last night to tonight..so I know the battery is good. Is there something else that could be causing my bike not to start?

I'll try bump starting it tomorrow, but I doubt it'll do anything since its doesn't seem to be an issue with the battery not having enough juice. Seems like the starter's turning, but something's preventing the bike from actually starting.

sigh...so bummed.:( what to do?

[OldFatGuy]

It cranks, but won't start? Can you hear the fuel pump running when you turn on the key? Have you checked the fuses?

[rocketbunny]

Heh - don't know if it'll help, but Hyperlite had a similar problem with his F4i after doing some electrical modifications last weekend. He had unhooked the battery to add heated grips off a distribution block. For some reason, doing that caused his idle to be reset to be too low to allow the bike to run (ecm lost power?). The bike really sounded like it wanted to start, but wouldn't. We were puzzled until he tried adjusting the idle higher and it fired up no problem. After running for a few minutes, he adjusted the idle down to the correct rpm. No problems since.

I dunno anything about FI bikes and maybe he bumped the idle adjust while fooling around, but it's a possibility...

Did you actually start the bike up before doing the coolant change or had you only turned the key to see if the new horn worked?

[creamygoodness]

OldFatGuy- When I turn the key, I hear the typical sound that accompanies FI bikes, the "EEEEEEEE" sound, but when I hit the engine start button, it just turns and turns and turns... I suppose the next step is to check the fuses...do I need special equipment to do that?

RocketBunny- I'll try the idle adjustment, hopefully that'll do the trick. The engine itself hasn't been "on" for about the last 3 weeks. The furthest I went was to only turn the key on to see if my horn had juice. Thought my gas went bad, but its only been 3 weeks...

Thanks for the tips guys, anybody else have suggestions about what else to try?

[Sane_Man]

I have no advice for your problem now, but in the future whnever you do any mods, make sure the bike is operational before you do any work. Then you won't have to wonder if something three weeks causing your problem. Also, do only one mod at a time, then check your work before moving on to the next mod.

I would check fuses and any connectors you may have touched or left disconnected.

[creamygoodness]

saneman, you're right about checking on the bike's functionality before/between mods...i knew the bike started fine when i started the work, but in between i definitely should have ran the bike to make sure it was still ok. thanks for the tip

[OldFatGuy]

Is there any chance you could have flooded it? That's happened to me a couple of times when my bike sat for a few weeks and I tried to start it. Hold the throttle wide open and crank it. If it's flooded, that will clear it out.

[creamygoodness]

hmmmmmmmmm that could be a possibility fatguy....i told my roommate to give that a shot when he gets home.

i know my bike won't start unless the headlight is plugged into it, what other safeguards exists on a bike that prevents ignition when it isn't supposed to?

[OldFatGuy]

It also has a tipover sensor that will keep it from starting, but they don't usually just go bad for no reason.

[elskipador]

if the tip-off sensor is having problems the bike won't even turn over. safety feature so if during a crash all the oil leaked out.

[creamygoodness]

you know what's funny? i had the bike on the rearstand yesterday and noticed that there was NO oil showing in the little window. I looked all over my bike and on the ground where I had the bike stored and saw no leaked oil, but yeah, that was wierd. Where did it go?

How can i check the tip off sensor?

[OldFatGuy]

Originally posted by creamygoodness
you know what's funny? i had the bike on the rearstand yesterday and noticed that there was NO oil showing in the little window. I looked all over my bike and on the ground where I had the bike stored and saw no leaked oil, but yeah, that was wierd. Where did it go?

How can i check the tip off sensor?

It could be burning it. You better get it filled up before you ride it. If the thing was on its side for any length of time, some of the oil may be in the airbox. Unfortunately, I think the only way you're going to be able to test the tipover sensor is to replace it with a known good one.

[elskipador]

Originally posted by creamygoodness
you know what's funny? i had the bike on the rearstand yesterday and noticed that there was NO oil showing in the little window. I looked all over my bike and on the ground where I had the bike stored and saw no leaked oil, but yeah, that was wierd. Where did it go?

How can i check the tip off sensor?
won't show oil on the rearstand. put it on the ground and have a friend hold it up-right and check the level. i bet its fine.

[creamygoodness]

Originally posted by elskipador
won't show oil on the rearstand. put it on the ground and have a friend hold it up-right and check the level. i bet its fine.

doesn't the rearstand hold the bike upright?

[elskipador]

Originally posted by OldFatGuy
Unfortunately, I think the only way you're going to be able to test the tipover sensor is to replace it with a known good one.
or use the test procedure thats in the manual.

Originally posted by creamygoodness
doesn't the rearstand hold the bike upright?

yeah but it tilts it forward, unto the front wheel so the reading isn't right.

[OldFatGuy]

I didn't say that was the only way to test it. I said that was the only way he was going to be able to test it. I don't get the impression that he has a manual, a multimeter, or much else in the way of tools.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally posted by elskipador
if the tip-off sensor is having problems the bike won't even turn over. safety feature so if during a crash all the oil leaked out.

Nice theory, except that if the sensor is working properly, it will allow the bike to start up after a crash, whether it has oil in it or not.

[elskipador]

Originally posted by OldFatGuy
Nice theory, except that if the sensor is working properly, it will allow the bike to start up after a crash, whether it has oil in it or not.

i'm talking about when the bikes on its side. and thats the main reason they use them. so that when you crash and all the oil leaks out and the bikes on its side it doesn't keep running and blow up. now if you're dumb enough to try and start it once you get it up right, while standing in a puddle thats your problem. by the way the manual for the f4i is availiable for download in a sticky'ed thread in the top of the garage, smartguy. and heres the link right here :hand http://www.thiggins.com/motorcycles/servicemanuals/Honda_CBR600F4i.zip

[OldFatGuy]

Whatever you say. You're the expert. :rolleyes

Are you finished riding my sack now?

Personally, I'd me much more inclined to believe that the sensor is there as a safety feature (so the fuel pump doesn't empty the tank into a fire, etc.) rather than a nice little consideration from Honda to help save your engine when you total your bike. But again, what do I know?

[creamygoodness]

c'mon guys don't fight. You are both cool dudes who have given helpful advice, which I am itching to go home and try out.

I actually have the service manual and a good amount of tools (thanks to my roommate), but not the multimeter...

[OldFatGuy]

Originally posted by creamygoodness
c'mon guys don't fight. You are both cool dudes who have given helpful advice, which I am itching to go home and try out.

I actually have the service manual and a good amount of tools (thanks to my roommate), but not the multimeter...

Cool. Looks like I may have underestimated what you have at your disposal.

We're not fighting. It's just a stupid internet dick-swinging contest and I'm going to have to forfeit, since I have other stuff to do. :laughing

Let us know if any of this stuff actually helps you fix the problem. Good Luck. :thumbup

[elskipador]

Originally posted by OldFatGuy
Whatever you say. You're the expert. :rolleyes
on bikes, yeah. i'll be the 1st to ask you a ? when i have a diesel question.

Originally posted by OldFatGuy
Personally, I'd me much more inclined to believe that the sensor is there as a safety feature (so the fuel pump doesn't empty the tank into a fire, etc.) rather than a nice little consideration from Honda to help save your engine when you total your bike. But again, what do I know?
thats nice that you believe that. personally i was @ the honda conveintion (sp) when they 1st started putting them on the goldwings back in the early 90's. the goldwings were carbed then and had a fuel cut-off relay that kills the pump if it runs to long, pressure or no pressure. the honda reps told the dealers that it was to save motors, but whatever fire or motor its still about safety.

Originally posted by OldFatGuy
Cool. Looks like I may have underestimated what you have at your disposal.
which is why i got involved and tried to point him in the right direction.

Originally posted by creamygoodness
but not the multimeter...
you can get them @ sears or kragen for a little over 20.00

Originally posted by OldFatGuy
I have other stuff to do. :laughing
what?? theres stuff to do outside of barf :confused :laughing

[budbandit]

This may be stupid but did you check the kill switch? I have seen some Hondas that will happily run the starter even if the kill switch is on.....

[VTRZA]

mine will

[elskipador]

and then when you flip the switch to on and press the button.......BANG. great for scaring passers-by :laughing

[creamygoodness]

c'mon, guys. you think i'd really be stressing and tripping about my bike not starting without even considering something as simple as the kill switch? really, now that's just an insult to my intelligence!

when i got home, i had the throttle wide open and tried starting the engine and it worked! well, after turning and turning, then sputtering, then a big POOF of smoke, the bike started up sounding liek it had just woken up from a 3 week nap (which it did). the engine was flooded after all!

thanks for the help guys!

[OldFatGuy]

:thumbup

Glad it turned out to be something simple.

[TylerW]

Originally posted by OldFatGuy
Whatever you say. You're the expert. :rolleyes

Are you finished riding my sack now?

Personally, I'd me much more inclined to believe that the sensor is there as a safety feature (so the fuel pump doesn't empty the tank into a fire, etc.) rather than a nice little consideration from Honda to help save your engine when you total your bike. But again, what do I know?

I think ( I could be wrong on this one) that what Shawn is trying to get at is that the tip over sensor will kill the engine to save it, so that when the bike is on the side, the engine isn't pulling oil from the oil pan correctly, similar to how stunters kill their engines by pulling extra long wheelies and starving the engine of oil.

[elskipador]

boy it would really piss the stunters off if the tip over sensors not only worked on horizontal tilt but vertical tilt as well :laughing