Bike is oversteering.

[Robert R1]

I have a 02R1 with stock suspension. I raised the forks 8mm to quicken the steering. That part worked.

Now I'm having 2 specific problems.

1. The bike floats the rear when braking hard.

2. When exiting corners, the front tire seems to drift inwards and the rear spins up too easy. Also, I have to really force the bike to stand up or it will just keep turning on itself and sliding the rear. Although fun, it gets annoying when trying to rail.

Question: What do I need to do to find a better compromise between quick steering, stability under braking and cleaner exits???

[budman]

SOunds like stiffining the rear might be in order..Won't help on the brakes , but may make a difference on the slides..If it is moving around on you.. If it is not moving then maybe it is already a little to stiff. When I get the back to stiff it want to slide more..fun to you..SCARY to me. :wow Did you make the rear real stiff??

Good luck!

:smoking

[Robert R1]

Originally posted by budmanR6
SOunds like stiffining the rear might be in order..Won't help on the brakes , but may make a difference on the slides..If it is moving around on you.. If it is not moving then maybe it is already a little to stiff. When I get the back to stiff it want to slide more..fun to you..SCARY to me. :wow Did you make the rear real stiff??

Good luck!

:smoking

No the rear is close to stock. The rear end has excellent feedback and very good over bumps but it's the oversteering and unstable under brakes that's annoying.

[budman]

I tried!! You could try raising them back a notch or two.
Good luck!

:smoking

[Robert R1]

Originally posted by budmanR6
I tried!! You could try raising them back a notch or two.
Good luck!

:smoking

Yah, I might take away 3mm and have only a 5mm drop instead of the 8or9mm I have now. Lazy me just likes to add minimal effort on turn-in's :)

[EastBayDave]

Originally posted by Robert R1
I have a 02R1 with stock suspension. I raised the forks 8mm to quicken the steering. That part worked.

Now I'm having 2 specific problems.

1. The bike floats the rear when braking hard.

This may seem simplistic, but "floating" the rear would seem normal to me under maximum braking? Realize my memory of such things is dated but we didn't have tires good enough for stoppies back in the early 80's...so I really don't know what to tell ya. Gee that helped alot eh'? (* see below)

2. When exiting corners, the front tire seems to drift inwards and the rear spins up too easy. Also, I have to really force the bike to stand up or it will just keep turning on itself and sliding the rear. Although fun, it gets annoying when trying to rail.

TO ME, this drifting "inwards" with the front tire on a corner exit is something I haven't experienced; or never noticed. On exits w/hard throttle, the front should be lifting/trying to wheelie, or "pushing" wide. Doesn't make sense? Starting to sound like a geometry issue...

Spinning up the rear would indicate your not getting the bike lifted up on the "meat" of the back tire soon enough; or perhaps air pressure needs attention. Is this a consistent issue for a long time, or only during the beginning/end of a session?

Question: What do I need to do to find a better compromise between quick steering, stability under braking and cleaner exits???

First put the forks back closer to stock & try it. Then think about a change. IMHO you have them way too far from stock; perhaps screwing up geometery (trail?) but that's just my opinion.

*Stabillity under braking (if your drifting both ends from partial lockup) to ME is a "feeler" for maximum braking. Go much past this, & waaaaa.....bail. I don't understand what you mean by stability under braking; if it's drifting both ends at max braking, this is normal to me. I may be misinterpeting the question?

Are you talking straight up & down at max braking, or leaned over, getting wobbles or tire slides. Please clarify...

[morthrane]

I ain't no racer, but :) have you tried playing at all with preload and springs up front? I've heard those '02 R1's have fairly weak springs that don't hold up to a race pace. At the very least, that could be your problem under heavy braking. Undersprung front ends, I'd imagine, also lead to oversteering bikes that push on corner exit...

Or, I could just be smoking crack. Actually, that sounds like a good idea right now. I think I've gone delierious on tearing down my SRX.

[Holeshot]

Robert:

did we ever set the SAG on that bike? If not, let's do that tomorrow and then ride. Also, it's near impossible to:

A.) Tune a suspension on the open road

B.) Tune a stock suspension for preciseness (it's always a decent compromise)

I agree with Dave. Raise the front up to stock. I'd shim the rear end instead and first use that method. Lowering the front end without affecting the rear changes much more of the geometry than one would think.

Next, take a look at Circuit1's site. (www.circuit1.com) and check out their tuning guide. It's a good assement of common problems.

Overall, I'd say if you're ridding real fast, it's the limitations of the stock gear you're bumping against. There's only so much a stock suspension will take.

Wanna ride manana (like a nice "easy" ride) ?

[Robert R1]

EBD, Ty for the tips. This shit started happening after I lowered the front end.

Holeshot,

Yah, let's ride tomorrow. Give me a call in the morning.

[MrCrash]

Originally posted by Robert R1
1. The bike floats the rear when braking hard.

Try dialing off on the rear preload. I've found that if you have too much energy in the spring when the shock is fully extended, the rear tends to catapult into the air when unweighted on the brakes.


2. When exiting corners, the front tire seems to drift inwards and the rear spins up too easy. Also, I have to really force the bike to stand up or it will just keep turning on itself and sliding the rear. Although fun, it gets annoying when trying to rail.

Question: What do I need to do to find a better compromise between quick steering, stability under braking and cleaner exits???

Try dropping the forks again, 8mm is quite a significant change. If the rear is spinning up a bit much, check your tension. On Suzukis, you should be able to push the chain up against the lower rubber guard on the swingarm, with no additional slack in the chain once in that position.

If your bike isn't running wide on corner exits, you might want to go lighter on compression damping on the rear as well, letting it soak up some of the pavement imperfections when you're on the gas.

[EastBayDave]

Originally posted by Enchanter
If you are not...

You might try using the rear brake for a short time just as you begin braking. I have been able to settle the rear end in the first stage of braking, then release it for the remainder of the braking. It has worked on my racebike as well as my streetbike.

Using the old Turn 11 at Sears Point as an Example (Top speed down to very slow in a straight line):

I used to do the same thing; in fact I probably use the rear brake way too much- I.E. - getting the front end loaded by weight transfer FIRST (loading up the front/rear suspension by rear brake application just a cunt-hair BEFORE the fast squeeeezing of the front brake.)

Squating the rear & loading the front just a fraction of a second before the big load of maximum front braking (while you lift the rear brake load (lever) at the same time as you increase front (pressure) braking (as the rear becomes light) was the best way to do it for me.

Doing it all in one, quick (<a few seconds), fluid motion (while downshifting too) was very satisfying when done correctly. Its a very subtle input, that's hard to see from the sidelines, & it's NOT just hammering the front as hard as you can f/maximum braking.

It's stabilizing the bike just prior to, & AS you increase front braking (& reduce rear) as the bikes attitude changes around it’s horizontal axis (during weight transfer) that’s awesome. It's hard to do, but with practice it becomes instinctive, & very cool... :D

Does this make any sense? It's hard for me to discribe...

[JeffKoch]

This is an old thread by now, but... I had a similar problem with my Duc last year, and I found relief raising the front end (dropping the forks) and dropping the rear. The quick steering was nice, but the back end was too light and wanted to come around at high corner entry speeds (not fun...) and on exiits unless I was super smooth with the throttle. I found a nice balance point where it would drift nicely on exits but didn't understeer on the entries - getting the rear compression damping right helped here too. Did you fix this problem, Robert?