Thoughts on passing into T5, TH

[christofu]

T5 at Thunderhill seems to freak a lot of people out, but I really like it.

It seems like a perfect place to pass. A lot of riders seem to back out of the throttle early going up the hill and so if you're willing to attack the corner it seems like a perfect place for a pass.

I've passed a few people going into T5. I've aksed a few of them afterwards if it was an "OK" pass and they all say "yes"... but their faces seem kinda bloodless and their hand are trembling violently.

Now I only pass going into T5 when the I know the person I'm passing and have a level of comfort that they're not going to freak out and go dirt tracking. Fortunately I basically know everyone in Formula Singles, so it's open season on them. Not so certain of the 650TW and Open GP people I pass (they get gridded with F-Singles).

I am I just being a big girl's blouse?

[MrCrash]

A street rider friend of mine crashed just due to my mere presence behind him at the crest of five. I shot up the hill thinking I might clear him by the braking point, but his line was a little more shallow than I expected, so I backed off.

He then looked in, then looked back, seeing me right behind him and to his left. I was clear of him, but he panicked, stood it up, and lost it trail braking in.

In a race sitation? I guess it depended on how they were setting up for the turn, and how much I needed to make the pass.

Chris, did I already tell you about the Lightweight Formula class I'm pushing for next year? I'm taking some time off and don't plan on racing it, but thought it would be a really fun class with some good racing that you could be a part of, a class where riders on smaller bikes wouldn't have to deal with the three wave contests of who wants to be the bigger asshole through lapped traffic.

[christofu]

Scott, I think in part what I'm asking is about the psychology of riders going in T5. I mean, someone could pass ME going into T5 and I'd be fine with that. I know other people who would totally freak if they were passed into 5.

So what consitutes a "safe and clean" pass? If you execute a pass that would safe and clean if someone did it to you and yet it causes the other rider to have a major conniption and crash, it is still a safe and clean pass?

Oh, yes I agree that there are easier places to pass. But I think T5 is overlooked as a good passing place. Doubly good because the person being passed isn't going to expect it (perhaps adding to the freak-out factor).

[christofu]

Originally posted by MrCrash907

Chris, did I already tell you about the Lightweight Formula class I'm pushing for next year? I'm taking some time off and don't plan on racing it, but thought it would be a really fun class with some good racing that you could be a part of, a class where riders on smaller bikes wouldn't have to deal with the three wave contests of who wants to be the bigger asshole through lapped traffic.

Oooh! What qualifies as a "Lightweight"? Someone who passes out after their 2nd beer? I'm in! :teeth

[morthrane]

From a noobs point of view (i.e., mine :)), yeah, it would suck alot of ass to get passed in T5 at TH :laughing I don't think there's another turn at TH that appears to be more narrow from a mental perception-- at least to me, it feels as though its *very* easy to run out of road as you crest the top. Add in another bike, and I'm sure it could turn to claustraphobic panic in no time :) and thence to a lowside or offroading experience.

(It goes without saying, be careful when you're out there passing dem noobs ;))

[budman]

I"d deal with it if it was racing.. at a track day..maybe not.
If you can show the wheel on the inside early no problem.
A last minute move where any correction was necessary on my part would be irritating..but that is a track day point of view only.
Racing is racing ..get by whenever and wherever possible!!

:smoking

[Robert R1]

Originally posted by budmanR6

Racing is racing ..get by whenever and wherever possible!!

:smoking

EXACTLY!!!

[christofu]

Cool. I practiced passing into T5 a few times on Saturday and then in the race on Sunday I used it to steal the lead. I can tell you that it completely shocked the person I passed.

Yay! I've actually led a race now (twice, during that one race, actually).

[MrCrash]

Originally posted by christofu
Oooh! What qualifies as a "Lightweight"? Someone who passes out after their 2nd beer? I'm in! :teeth

My proposal was:

Unlimited Singles
650cc Twins
550cc Inline Fours (those WERA and WSMC FZR550s)
250cc street based two strokes

Building the the extent the rules allow, you have machines that are almost identical in terms of lap times. Jeff Nash on a Ducati Supermono, Zoran Vujasinovic on an SV650, Ross Wells on an FZR450, and Joe Carillo on a TZR250 have all turned laps within a second or two of each other.

This would give riders of smaller bikes in smaller grids a chance to race other bikes with different characterstics, and different strengths as a result. Sort of like choosing different opponents with different styles in the Street Fighter / Mortal Kombat type arcade games.

This also gives riders in smaller multi-wave grids a chance to race without having to worry about heavy lapped traffic from other grids.

In addition, there would be enough riders that a fast SV650, Ducati Supermono, or FZR450/500 might have a shot at an AFM Top 10 plate.

I'm going to shoot an email to the board soon, just to see if any consideration has been given to the proposal.

[christofu]

Hmmm... dunno, Mike. It's kinda unrealistic to look at someone riding a Supermono since no-once actually has one. The "win-by-a-freakin'-mile" class champion of F-singles this year (Jeff Jones) was turning 2:07s at TH while the winner of 650 TW was turning 1:59s...

I can see that lap times would coincide on a technical track like SP, but at horsepower tracks like TH and BW, the other classes would eat the lunches of the F-singles racers. Not that it would stop me competing, though :teeth

[morthrane]

Originally posted by MrCrash907

Unlimited Singles
650cc Twins
550cc Inline Fours (those WERA and WSMC FZR550s)
250cc street based two strokes


Hrm... doesn't sound like any singles would want to run there-- not just from what Christofu says, but just from sheer displacement. Singles don't get much bigger than... what, 770cc? And chances are even one of those SZR/XTZ 660 motors bored out to 770cc will get bitchslapped by an SV650 :)

If by unlimited... do you mean supercharged/turbocharged singles? :teeth :laughing I can just see the grenades now :nerd

[MrCrash]

Yeah, singles are at a disadvantage, it's still better than racing that three wave crap they're typically subjected to!

Figure the Supermono could be a bit of a "loophole" bike if the other singles were able to run the pace of the fast 400s and 650s, but if fast guys showed up on a Supermono, a built SV, an FZR550, and a TZ....r250, the action at the front would likely be pretty intense!

Chris, do you remember how fast Craig MacLean went when he did that race at Sears Point last year?