CCS amateur times?

[Ssketchy RC]

I am seriously wanting to try my hand at racing next year. I was thinking about CCS. The only deciding factor though is that if my times (which I will find out in a week or 2) and the times of the amateur racers are even close. The slower ones of course. I just don't like jumping in without knowing if I am good enough or even have a chance. If I am still too slow then I will wait another year. Thanks for any info you can give.

[wei7]

Are you worried about lap times because you want to be on the box or worried about being lapped? CCS is a poorly organized event BUT the grids are small and you compete with novice. If you have a lot of seat time and feel you will not take anyone out then why not do it! More power to you. Just remember to be safe out there and learn! Best wishes

Just for a reference what are your times at Button and Thunder because they only hold evens there and Willow Springs for the West Coast.

Dont worry because I am on an 80hp duc!:laughing See you next season!

[Ssketchy RC]

As far as my seat time goes I have been riding motorcycles for 10 years and sport bikes for 3 of that. I have attended 2 track days and after the last one I was a quick intermediate. I am not sure of my times yet but I have a timer on the way for my next run at T-Hill. I am not worried about taking others out. I just don't want my first racing experience to frustrate me so bad that it discourages me. I am very competitive in all that I do so if I was getting lapped up for the first few races it would affect how hard I pushed and I could wind up loosing time. And I know that ccs is poorly ran but unfortunately they seem to be one of the best places for a novice to start out according to everyone that I have talked to.

[Robert R1]

2:05's at T-Hill is good for a beginner Racer and/or very fast street rider.

Around 2:00 flat is very good, Period.

Below 1:59 and below = fast.

[wei7]

I think for open twin 2:05s are not too bad. I guess that just means I have to get faster!! :teeth Hey at least I am in the top 10!! I do think it depends on the class just because Gary Jahne is doing 5s on the 400 and holds the plate.

As for being competitive, you really have to be but you cant let it get to you if you want to race. Have the confidence just to race your own race and forget making the box in your first year. Best wishes and here are some results for you

FORMULA T - OPEN
Pos Points AFM# Lic Name Make/Yr best lap
1 56 34X E THORWALDSON, RICH H01 1:58:748
2 49 764 N BAWDEN, JON S98 1:59:760
3 43 708 E BELL, DAVID APR00 2:02:437
4 38 818 E WAGNER, KNUT DUC95 2:01:940
5 33 849 E WOOD, PAUL DUC01 2:03:513
6 28 673 E TAYLOR JR., JEREMIAH P. S00 2:05:902
7 24 317 E ANDERSON, BUD H98 2:05:626
8 21 462 E WINKELBAUER, KELLY DUC98 2:05:744
9 18 876 N PALETHORPE, TIM DUC00 2:06:378
10 16 316 N DAHL, DON APR00 2:06:504
11 14 770 N NITAFAN, RON DUC97 2:06:748
12 12 388 E CUARTAS, DIEGO S98 2:09:167
13 10 414 E SAMPOGNARO JR, MICHAEL S. H00 2:10:478
14 8 895 N GHAFOURPOUR, JIM APR00 2:10:626
15 6 998 E WILSON, DEE DUC99 2:11:313
16 5 757 E MILLER, R. MICHAEL HD98 2:11:219
17 4 380 E RUST, JOE DUC00 2:11:848
18 3 291 E PEREZ, JONAH S97 2:11:118
19 2 517 E BERGMAN, MARK DUC95 2:14:145
20 1 954 E HARROUFF, GREGORY DUC95 2:16:385

[MackeyStingray]

man, if ya gotta start bustin 2:05s to be competitive in the novice class...:wow i think i'm barely hitting under the 3min. mark :rolleyes

[mikeyjudkins]

Originally posted by Robert R1
2:05's at T-Hill is good for a beginner Racer and/or very fast street rider.


He could be doing 10 seconds slower than that and still be racing with people. 2:05 would put him in the top ten. You call that a beginner racer?

MJ

[Holeshot]

2:05 is fast for a novice. 2:00 is VERY FAST!

John Bawden is not a first year novice. Don Dahl is. Don's a fast guy for his first year. 2:06's are good.

simply put, you've got to be a prodigy to break 2:00's your first year there...

2:05's will TN (Top Novice) open prod and open superbike.

2:00's would TN open 600 superbike.

[Baptistro]

Good to know fellas, thanks for the info :thumbup

[JnglstTICAL]

Originally posted by wei7
Are you worried about lap times because you want to be on the box or worried about being lapped? CCS is a poorly organized event BUT the grids are small and you compete with novice. If you have a lot of seat time and feel you will not take anyone out then why not do it! More power to you. Just remember to be safe out there and learn! Best wishes

Just for a reference what are your times at Button and Thunder because they only hold evens there and Willow Springs for the West Coast.

Dont worry because I am on an 80hp duc!:laughing See you next season!

do you race ccs bro?

[Ssketchy RC]

See I knew I became a member of this place for a reason. Thanks for all this info guys. I will find out my times as soon as I find a trackday in late Oct. I am sure I am going to be displeased with them but we shall see. Another aspect that scares me is that I know noone that wants to race also. That is fine with me but if I were to wreck I might not be able to get home.

[wei7]

Originally posted by JnglstTICAL
do you race ccs bro?

Next season I hope. I still have to shave off about two seconds for me to want to race. Plus I am waiting on the suspension to get back. Then I will do some testing and see how it goes. I am really only shooting for the endurance races though.

[JnglstTICAL]

Cool, let me know, Ill be out to support!!

[mikeyjudkins]

Originally posted by Ssketchy RC
Another aspect that scares me is that I know noone that wants to race also. That is fine with me but if I were to wreck I might not be able to get home.

I am planning on racing next season, Sketchy. And you and me will be in the same boat (first season newbs) If you break your shit and can't drive yourself home I'll give you a ride back to Fremont.

MJ

[Baptistro]

Originally posted by mikeyjudkins
I am planning on racing next season, Sketchy. And you and me will be in the same boat (first season newbs) If you break your shit and can't drive yourself home I'll give you a ride back to Fremont.

MJ

Slider 2828 is also thining of racing next season, and has his bike prepped for it, if finances allow, he will be racing CCS, hit him up if you guys wanna hook up and do a BARF pit or something :thumbup

[christofu]

Of course you can always race a low hp bike and then you have an excuse to run slower lap times :teeth

My little 60hp single laps around 2:10 and that's almost a podium finish in F-singles.

[Ssketchy RC]

Right on. That would be cool as hell. Get a few brothers together to help each other out. That would make it a hell of a lot easier.

[morthrane]

Originally posted by christofu

My little 60hp single laps around 2:10 and that's almost a podium finish in F-singles.

60hp Single is "little"? :laughing

[NoQuarter]

Being a first year racer myself, I can relate the anxiety of "am I fast enough?". I'd previously only had two on-track experiences before the season started... the first with the Calif. Superbike School and shortly thereafter the Freddie Spencer School. (I'd highly recommend Freddie's, btw). I did both of those schools last year in anticipation of joining AFM this season. I had no illusions of making the podium in the 600 classes, but was very relieved to not be contending for last place either.

My first trackday at TH, I was running about 2:14's. By the race that same weekend, I was in the 2:06's. Still not super fast, but from what I've seen with a lot of other novices this season, trackday lap times don't corrolate exactly with race pace. I'm sure that will change with me getting more experience and faster times, but for newbies... drop a few seconds off of your track day times, and then compare them to AFM race results at their website. That will probably give you a better indication of how you might finish in the field. Lap times tend to drop a lot the first season for novices (true novices anyway). My Buttonwillow times went from 2:07 the first race in March, to 2:00 in July, as an example.

_David

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/010/525/140370-tnqturn10.jpg

[Baptistro]

Originally posted by NoQuarter
Being a first year racer myself, I can relate the anxiety of "am I fast enough?". I'd previously only had two on-track experiences before the season started... the first with the Calif. Superbike School and shortly thereafter the Freddie Spencer School. (I'd highly recommend Freddie's, btw). I did both of those schools last year in anticipation of joining AFM this season. I had no illusions of making the podium in the 600 classes, but was very relieved to not be contending for last place either.

My first trackday at TH, I was running about 2:14's. By the race that same weekend, I was in the 2:06's. Still not super fast, but from what I've seen with a lot of other novices this season, trackday lap times don't corrolate exactly with race pace. I'm sure that will change with me getting more experience and faster times, but for newbies... drop a few seconds off of your track day times, and then compare them to AFM race results at their website. That will probably give you a better indication of how you might finish in the field. Lap times tend to drop a lot the first season for novices (true novices anyway). My Buttonwillow times went from 2:07 the first race in March, to 2:00 in July, as an example.

_David

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/010/525/140370-tnqturn10.jpg

That's pretty enlightening, thanks for sharing that info with us. BTW, please go to the newbies section and introduce yourself properly, just tradition around here, and :newbie brother :twofinger

[Ssketchy RC]

So where are you finishing in? That is great info bro. And by the way get your ass to newbie and intro yourself. :laughing :laughing :newbie

[Holeshot]

Dave's a fast ass guy out there...He's got hell of corner speed.

[xtremecycles]

2:06's will get you some hardware in the open twins as a novice in CCS.
As for the comment that CCS is poorly organized, sure they have some improvements to make, but it's a very fun organization. Don't knock it unless you try it.

I don't mind being gridded with just the bikes in my class. Ever come up on a bunch of packed EX500's before the third lap trying to catch the leaders in your class?

I totally echo David's sentiments. Lap times during trackdays is a rough indicator, but "Race Pace" is totally different. You can't factor in "adrenaline" and "attitude" when your out there dicing it out. Revving of bikes as the "1" goes sideways, stuffing someone in turn 3 only to get stuffed right back in turn 5, seeing the crossbones and muttering "f*ck, we're only halfway," getting stuck behind an inferior rider for half a lap, and that last push you get when you see the white flag.
These are just some factors that will get you your race pace time that you can't really emulate at a trackday.

If your thinking of racing, I'd do it. I finally quit procrastinating and just went for it.
There's no better feeling than finishing your very first race (no matter where you end up).

Heck, if you decide to run Open Twins or Supertwins it'd be great to have a new addition to the field. Who knows, you may just be sandbagging us and your really turning times like Thorwaldson, Wheeler and Bawden.

Good Luck,

Ron

[Holeshot]

Bawden's fast!

But he's also a second year novice...

[morthrane]

Originally posted by christofu

My little 60hp single laps around 2:10 and that's almost a podium finish in F-singles.

2:10 is a podium finish in formula singles? Hrm. I got the impression that greg creech was running under that on a supermotard, and getting nothing. Maybe I'm confusing Sears Point times with TH...:confused

[MrCrash]

Originally posted by xtremecycles
Ever come up on a bunch of packed EX500's before the third lap trying to catch the leaders in your class?


Done better. In one 650 Twins race, we came across hordes of Ninja 250s in the 500 Twins race (when they were still legal for the class), on Turn 5 of the first lap.

I "lapped" 45 riders that race, finishing 5th. Racing wasn't so much a contest of "who's the better rider" as it was "who's the bigger asshole through traffic".

- Mike

[christofu]

Originally posted by morthrane
2:10 is a podium finish in formula singles? Hrm. I got the impression that greg creech was running under that on a supermotard, and getting nothing. Maybe I'm confusing Sears Point times with TH...:confused

Yes, you're getting confused between Sears Point results and Thunderhill results. If I could do the same lap times at TH that I can do at SP then I think the factory teams would be offering me a ride in MotoGP next year :laughing

I clock 1:51s at SP (the AMA layout), and 2:09s at TH. The F-singles winners clock 2:07s

[xtremecycles]

Originally posted by MrCrash907

I "lapped" 45 riders that race, finishing 5th. Racing wasn't so much a contest of "who's the better rider" as it was "who's the bigger asshole through traffic".

- Mike

Well said Mike. You might also want to add, "who also has the bigger balls."

Ron

[High Speed]

What are the formula 40 guys turning a T-hill and what are they riding?
Harry

[kneedrag]

The AFM has't run the Formula 40 class the past couple seasons. If they did, it's a "run what you brung" class, similar to Formula Pacific. If they did, a 1:57 to 2:05 would be a top ten range. Then again Mr Mesa can turn sub 1:55s if he cared to run the class.

[Ssketchy RC]

Damn good info guys. Damn good indeed.

[JeffKoch]

Hey Ron! Didn't see ya at the CCS races a couple weeks ago - would've been fun! How's the 916?

My best times at TH are mid-2:05s, and in Amateur CCS Supertwins races that's good for anything from 1st to below 3rd depending on who shows up (I got 3rd, with Bawden winning by a mile and Bullock just ahead of me, nearly caught him at the end...). AFM's tougher, but 2:05s will still generally get you top 6-10 among mixed amateurs and experts. If you're racing an RC51, you'll have an easier time at TH especially, since horsepower helps a lot there.

[xtremecycles]

Hey Jeff,
Couldn't make it out. Just couldn't get my bike sorted out (I know you've been there). It's finally ready, but alas, no more races for the year.
Saw your results. Good Job buddy!
Saw Bawden added himself to the lineup and Bullock is pretty quick on his RC51. Would've been nice to race with you.

One of these days both of our bikes will both be working at the same time and we'll get a chance to run.

Lastly, THill and BWillow are good tracks for an RC51 (especially THill).
So.......sSketchy RC......get out to the track with us next season and look us up. The twins class isn't that big and we don't bite......well anyways some of us don't.

Ron

[donoman]

I run 2:04's.


...at Laguna Seca :teeth

[Holeshot]

Originally posted by JeffKoch
Hey Ron! Didn't see ya at the CCS races a couple weeks ago - would've been fun! How's the 916?

My best times at TH are mid-2:05s, and in Amateur CCS Supertwins races that's good for anything from 1st to below 3rd depending on who shows up (I got 3rd, with Bawden winning by a mile and Bullock just ahead of me, nearly caught him at the end...). AFM's tougher, but 2:05s will still generally get you top 6-10 among mixed amateurs and experts. If you're racing an RC51, you'll have an easier time at TH especially, since horsepower helps a lot there.

yeah, And Bawden's a real novice.... ;)

[xtremecycles]

Originally posted by Holeshot
yeah, And Bawden's a real novice.... ;)

.............yeah, kinda like last year's top novice Graham Yates. Wish I could be an AFM novice one year and run in an AMA race at Laguna the next.

[Ssketchy RC]

I am wanting to run more and more each time I go to T-Hill. I am going up on the 5th and I finally got my timer to see where I stand so we shall see. If it is anywhere close then I am there. What are the slower guys running and how many in supertwins races? Thanks.

[Holeshot]

Originally posted by xtremecycles
.............yeah, kinda like last year's top novice Graham Yates. Wish I could be an AFM novice one year and run in an AMA race at Laguna the next.

Yeah, that's true, but I was more thinking of "wish I could run AFM one year as a novice, and then run the next as a novice as well..."

AFM doesn't police any of that stuff...

[Big Daddy]

AAhhhhh yes Formula 40 how I remember it well! Its been 4 yrs since my racing that class and honestly it was very competitive and quick if you ran in the top 5. I still have visions of my experiences with Bob S and Ricky Heard and few others I battled with that left me with lasting memories that no matter the cost financially I can say I did it with a smile. My last race at BW was one to forget after a highside in T-4 left me broken and beat up for a few months but even in the face of that I wouldn't have passed up the experience of racing with so many wonderful competitors and just hangin out on a AFM race weekend.

BD