180 vs. 190

[purluv420]

I have a ZX10R and have a friend with an R1 and I use a 190 in the rear and he uses a 180 in the rear and says it "feels better".

What would the advantages or disadvantages be in using one over the other on a liter bike?


Thanks!!!!!!!!

[Manu ®]

Turns quicker with a 180. More meat with 190. Your choice.

[CykoKlr]

Get a 190/55 and it will change you turn in. I tried the 180/55 and it did turn in much easier than the 190/50. But the 190/55 has more rubber and same feel.

[purluv420]

I'm running the 190/55 now and I really like the feel of it, just looking to save money were possible if safety is not effected and the 180's are 20 bucks cheaper.

[Zed10R]

Originally posted by purluv420
I'm running the 190/55 now and I really like the feel of it, just looking to save money were possible if safety is not effected and the 180's are 20 bucks cheaper.

I used 180/55's too, untill I tried 190/55's. To me, the 190/55 is slower tuning in than the 180/55, but faster than the 190/50. the 190/55 also has more cornering grip than either. The extra $$ for the 190/55's is worth it. Use the 180/55's on the street - save $$ there, not on the track.

[purluv420]

I would never put safety second on the track and that is why I asked, thanks for the reply's!!!!!!!!!!

[CykoKlr]

purluv420 did you change your gearing for the 190/55? It was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy bigger then both the other tires. I still have a stock chain and had to take me 45 off adn go back to stock 43. that really sucked. Just curious, Im going to go down in front next.

[purluv420]

-1 in the front is the way I got it and it was always ran with 190/55

[Zed10R]

Originally posted by purluv420
-1 in the front is the way I got it and it was always ran with 190/55

I run totally stock gearing and stock chain. It works fine. Gotta keep the RPM's up a bit more for INSTANT hit 'cause of the bigger tire, but shit, the ZX10 still accelerates like mad. :teeth

Oh....take that spacer off of the top of your shock.....that really helps calm things down......:shhh

[purluv420]

That's what I have heard but not had the time to do it yet, I believe my extra weight(235 on a good day) helps a lot with this bike. GaryJ has the same bike and has much negative issues with the chassie but when he rode two up he said the bike was a dream.

Originally posted by Zed10R
I run totally stock gearing and stock chain. It works fine. Gotta keep the RPM's up a bit more for INSTANT hit 'cause of the bigger tire, but shit, the ZX10 still accelerates like mad. :teeth

Oh....take that spacer off of the top of your shock.....that really helps calm things down......:shhh

[Zed10R]

Originally posted by purluv420
That's what I have heard but not had the time to do it yet, I believe my extra weight(235 on a good day) helps a lot with this bike. GaryJ has the same bike and has much negative issues with the chassie but when he rode two up he said the bike was a dream.

Hehe....yeah....I don't have the $$ for an aftermarket shock, so the best thing for the too-stiffly sprung stocker is to remove that spacer, almost max-out the rebound damping, and get the compression damping as light as possible but still keeping the ass end balanced with the front. It works ok - a Penske racing shock with a titanium spring would be sick tho.

[Trackho]

Quit Fuckin around and just get the Dunlop 195 X 70 X 17 rear slick(s) You ZX10 guys need as much traction as you can get ;) ;)

And ditch that rear shock spacer ASAP--I am willing to bet the bike will finish corners BETTER w/o it--there is a reason they make the Ohlins "length" adjustable---you can always put it back in/or lengthen the shock if it doesnt

[purluv420]

Originally posted by Trackho
Quit Fuckin around and just get the Dunlop 195 X 70 X 17 rear slick(s) You ZX10 guys need as much traction as you can get ;) ;)

And ditch that rear shock spacer ASAP--I am willing to bet the bike will finish corners BETTER w/o it--there is a reason they make the Ohlins "length" adjustable---you can always put it back in/or lengthen the shock if it doesnt

Got the ohlins and have it adjusted to the hieght Gary would have it at without the spacer but yes as soon as possible the spacer is gone.;)

[Racer4life]

Originally posted by CykoKlr
Get a 190/55 and it will change you turn in. I tried the 180/55 and it did turn in much easier than the 190/50. But the 190/55 has more rubber and same feel. i tried the 190/55 dunlop slick and it was just like you said, slower turnin w/ same feel but you can get on the throttle faster and harder out of the corner. personally i like the 180 cause im on a 600 but on 1000 i think it would depend on the track.

[lance_keigwin]

There is no Dunlop 190/55 slick for 17" wheels. They make 180/55's and 195/70's.

If your bike will take a British 190/60-17 208GPA or 209 you will love it. These are not like the 190's put on new bikes for looks. They're true racing tires and do not suffer from slower steering and other ill effects like the stock 190's.

Dunlop slicks -- 195/70 or 180/55 -- are the bomb. You can't get any better. And like the British 208GPA's and 209's you can buy the compound right for you, your bike, the weather, and the track. Slicks, as a rule, outlast DOT racing tires too. (FWIW, the American 208GP(A)s come in medium/hard only. They are $80-100 cheaper per set but you get what you pay for.)

Mounted and inflated, the 190 and 195 tires are slightly taller than earlier 180/55 slicks and 208's. Don't do the math. It doesn't work with motorcycle tires. The 195 slick is about 3/8" taller from axle to the ground. I know a lot of guys immediately try to make adjustment by lowering the rear or raising the front. I'd suggest you ride it before you tweak unless you have the perfect set up already. :p

Be aware that the rear wheel will be pulled forward slightly, shortening the wheelbase and moving it closer to the swingarm. Most stock chain lengths are fine. Newer Kawi's seem to be a bit short and the tire can rub at high speeds. Think of this as a great chance to get a lighter, stronger chain like a DID-ERV2 and maybe re-gear. Less rotating, unsprung weight is a very good idea.

We stock many dozens of all these tires and other parts in our save-your-trackday shop at Thunderhill, along with tire changers, balancers, stands, tools, etc. Tire prices are ~10% over dealer cost.

See you at the track!
Lance.

[afm199]

OK. To completely threadjack this!

First I agree with Jeff and Lance, the 195 70 17 Dunlop is a great tire. I have three sitting in my garage right now.

Anybody know the nomenclature for Dunlop compounds????

IIRC:

758 medium

640 hard

but not sure at all. feedback appreciated.

Ernie

[lance_keigwin]

208GP(A)
- 950 or BC (soft)
- 587 or 758 (med.)
- 701 or 640 (hard)

209GP(A)
- 3166 or 350 (soft)
- 3136 or 758 (med)
- 3138 or 640 (hard)

Slicks (KR106, KR108)
- 950 (soft)
- 758 or CB (med)
- 640 (hard)

American 208GP(A) has only one compound and no sidewall stamp. Front medium, rear hard.

These numbers are for the "newer tires" ('04 and '05?). If you want earlier years I'd have to dig more. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some other odd designations (e.g., Daytona ultra-hards, qualifying tires, etc.). The Dunlop guys in charge of this are looney!

If you see "AMA" stamped in the sidewall it means they've been x-rayed for flaws. But the tire is otherwise no different.

Lance.

[afm199]

Thanks Lance. I appreciate it.

Ernie

[elskipador]

Originally posted by lance_keigwin
There is no Dunlop 190/55 slick for 17" wheels. They make 180/55's and 195/70's.

If your bike will take a British 190/60-17 208GPA or 209 you will love it. These are not like the 190's put on new bikes for looks. They're true racing tires and do not suffer from slower steering and other ill effects like the stock 190's.

Dunlop slicks -- 195/70 or 180/55 -- are the bomb. You can't get any better. And like the British 208GPA's and 209's you can buy the compound right for you, your bike, the weather, and the track. Slicks, as a rule, outlast DOT racing tires too. (FWIW, the American 208GP(A)s come in medium/hard only. They are $80-100 cheaper per set but you get what you pay for.)

Mounted and inflated, the 190 and 195 tires are slightly taller than earlier 180/55 slicks and 208's. Don't do the math. It doesn't work with motorcycle tires. The 195 slick is about 3/8" taller from axle to the ground. I know a lot of guys immediately try to make adjustment by lowering the rear or raising the front. I'd suggest you ride it before you tweak unless you have the perfect set up already. :p

Be aware that the rear wheel will be pulled forward slightly, shortening the wheelbase and moving it closer to the swingarm. Most stock chain lengths are fine. Newer Kawi's seem to be a bit short and the tire can rub at high speeds. Think of this as a great chance to get a lighter, stronger chain like a DID-ERV2 and maybe re-gear. Less rotating, unsprung weight is a very good idea.

We stock many dozens of all these tires and other parts in our save-your-trackday shop at Thunderhill, along with tire changers, balancers, stands, tools, etc. Tire prices are ~10% over dealer cost.

See you at the track!
Lance.

well said :thumbup


Originally posted by lance_keigwin
Slicks (KR106, KR108)
- 950 (soft)
- 758 or CB (med)
- 640 (hard)


IIRC the 950 is a BC and the 640/240 is a BN

Originally posted by lance_keigwin
American 208GP(A) has only one compound and no sidewall stamp. Front medium, rear hard.
pretty sure both front and rear only come in the 758 (med) compound.

Originally posted by lance_keigwin
I wouldn't be surprised if there were some other odd designations (e.g., Daytona ultra-hards, qualifying tires, etc.). The Dunlop guys in charge of this are looney!
the qual's are usually 936's & the daytona's a 4088 or someother 4-digit #, since they're triple compounds.

[Trackho]

Originally posted by lance_keigwin
208GP(A)
- 950 or BC (soft)
- 587 or 758 (med.)
- 701 or 640 (hard)

209GP(A)
- 3166 or 350 (soft)
- 3136 or 758 (med)
- 3138 or 640 (hard)

Slicks (KR106, KR108)
- 950 (soft)
- 758 or CB (med)
- 640 (hard)

American 208GP(A) has only one compound and no sidewall stamp. Front medium, rear hard.

These numbers are for the "newer tires" ('04 and '05?). If you want earlier years I'd have to dig more. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some other odd designations (e.g., Daytona ultra-hards, qualifying tires, etc.). The Dunlop guys in charge of this are looney!

If you see "AMA" stamped in the sidewall it means they've been x-rayed for flaws. But the tire is otherwise no different.

Lance.

You forgot the new triple compounds---Back to Dunlop School for you

3136-- med-hard-med

There are some other triples that "wear like a 758, and stick like a 950"--350//Maybe--I wouldnt bother, it got real greasy at Sears on my bike---Like HoleShot says, if it sounds too soft---it probably is :laughing :laughing

There more but I forget---the 3136 is the snizzle for ALL tracks cept T-Hill (Infineon, BW, Laguna) where the 640 bowling balls are the best.

I used to run the soft 950 on the front--but I like the 758 much better, specially when it gets hot out

[lance_keigwin]

These compounds are listed in my last post, Trackho! Give Elskipador a break! ;)

Lance.

P.S. Terry at Sport Tires Services told me the Buffalo GPA's are medium/hard. I really have no other knowledge.

[Zerox]

I'm trying different Dunlops this season to see how I like the various compounds/sizes. So far I've tried the U.S. 208GP A front and rear, then last time I tried the U.S. front with a soft rear (British) and honestly couldn't tell any difference. Both rear tires worked very well!

I may try the 190/70 if Terry thinks it will fit without rubbing the swingarm on my 750. Anybody tried the 190/70 on an '00-'03 GSX-R750?

[lance_keigwin]

Yes. It's close but it fits with the stock chain and doesn't rub, even at speed.

If you're happy with the Buffalo tires then stick with them. They're a lot cheaper! However, it is widely agreed that they don't last as long or provide the same traction.

[Zerox]

Longevity may be the stickler, I haven't run the Brit rear long enough to compare it to a U.S. rear. On outright grip I just couldn't tell any difference.

Thanks for the 190 info, I guess I'll try it out.

Terry told me that even some AMA national riders use the U.S. front, but none of them use the U.S. rear. I'll keep experimenting and see what works for me, it's interesting to compare tires.