any tips on getting good starts?

[mikeyjudkins]

What do you know about (or want to tell me about ;) ) starting races? Do you power shift, what are your RPMs, shift points, body position, focus and concentration tips, contingency plans, anything that would help me out and get me a good starting position.

Thanks!

MJ

[JeffKoch]

Here's a tip. Don't do what I do. ;) I suck at starts and need lots of practice, which is actually kinda tough to come by. It'd be cool if trackday organizers and schools had dedicated sessions for practicing starts, right out on the front straight.

[christofu]

Originally posted by JeffKoch
Here's a tip. Don't do what I do. ;) I suck at starts and need lots of practice, which is actually kinda tough to come by. It'd be cool if trackday organizers and schools had dedicated sessions for practicing starts, right out on the front straight.

OK! We'll try doing a session or two of practice starts at one of our track days next year.

[JnglstTICAL]

Great Idea...

[NoQuarter]

That would be great! Starts were by far my weakest area this season... nothing much is more frustrating than being stuck in large packs of slower racers. Especially in the really crowded grids like the 600's.

Berto (Holeshot) would be a good one to comment on this topic as he tends to get really good starts, and it shows in his results.

Guess there is something to a screen name every once in a while...

[MackeyStingray]

why not hit the drag strip? at the very least you'd get a little practice.

oh ya christofu , if ya do implement a start practice session, do it near the end of the day. maybe 2pm or 3pm when peeps start packing it in. that way they won't burn out their clutch and be stuck for the rest of the day.

[EastBayDave]

don't watch the flag, watch the starters arm. Between YOUR races, go watch the flag man start some other races. If you watch him closely enough, you'll get some clues on how he starts a race. A twitch of the shoulder, head, neck, arm, something.

As mentioned, go to the drag strip. Practice makes perfect for launching fast, & it's harder than you think. Learn your bikes maximum drive ability while heavy throttle & clutching.... :D

[JeffKoch]

Going to the drag strip would be cool too - how would I give this a try? Does Sears let you just show up some time with your bike and practice? I can practice a bit on my street bike, but they're different beasts (and I don't want to burn up the clutch in my street machine). It also attracts a lot of undesired attention.;)

[budman]

Dave has it right...I focus on the (Use to focus..:laughing ) on the starters elbow..soon as it starts to move up..his first motion the clutch drops and gas in on... Lean way forward on the bike, chest down to give maximum weight on the front to keep it down.
As soon as I launched the feet came up..no dragging them for a while. If the front lifts a quick fan of the clutch is ..er..was the best way for me to drop the front without losing the drive from backing off the throttle. Going to the drag strip is a great way.

Here is a pic of a start of an AFM race in '86..I am number 637 closest to wall...Note body position feet are up already compared to others on the front row.....also note guy behind to much gas at the go..lifting the front wheel too high..about to be passed for sure.!

Practice practice practice!


:smoking

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/012/093/161981-barf___87_start_on_the_front_row.jpg

[NoQuarter]

I've been told that Sears (Infineon...) does drag nights on wednesdays.... A bring-your-machine-and-race sort of set up. Bikes and cars, but seperately, of course.

[rick]

Originally posted by christofu
OK! We'll try doing a session or two of practice starts at one of our track days next year.

That's a great idea!
Would it be better to do it at the end of the day versus the beginnning? I'm just imaging riding elbow to elbow with people of a variety of skill levels and bikes and cringing a bit. :)

[JeffKoch]

Budman, do you drop the clutch or let it out easy? Where are your revs?

I've heard one approach is to rev the bike to the peak of the torque curve and gradually let the clutch out while trying to maintain the same revs. I've also heard people say that's too difficult and easy to screw up (actually, that's my experience too...), so they don't rev is so high and basically drop the clutch and then pin the throttle, timing it so it's smooth.

I'm more consistent doing it the second way, but I sometimes get a wave of riders coming up from behind after the first hundred yards or so even when I think I've gotten a halfway decent (smooth, at least) start. I haven't practiced the first way enough to be consistent, and I'm always afraid of stalling at the start. Should I be practicing this way?

[budman]

I rev it high into the power band and use a little clutch slippage to launch..and keep the wheel down. When I raced motocross it was wide open and dump it! Making the transition over to roadracing I used basically the same technique with minimal clutch work per above to get it right.. it was one of my strong points...get a head and hang on! So much easier to pass of the git go.. of course that was when bikes made 90 hp (750) and like 80 on the 600's...tires were not as good either.. Hitting the drag strip is good practice..but I my experience says there is so much rubber down that traction on the strip will be different than on the track..

:smoking

[mikeyjudkins]

How would one know where the peak torque curve on a specific bike is? Are there charts on this somewhere? Does a dyno readout tell you this information?

Also, do you shift at redline or before redline - if so whereabout?

[MackeyStingray]

before redline cause on all the charts i've seen, hp/torque drop off before redline.

might want to ask wannabe or any other dragracers out there as well to see how they launch at the strip. or read some of their posts on their exp. on the strip. :teeth

[budman]

Originally posted by mikeyjudkins
How would one know where the peak torque curve on a specific bike is? Are there charts on this somewhere? Does a dyno readout tell you this information?

Also, do you shift at redline or before redline - if so whereabout?

First: I feel it from riding it..noticing the power at a given RPM. Because your eyes are ahead you generally aren't looking at the Tach when your about to start.. Your redline is 12,000 then 8-9k is about right ..not screaming , but well into the power band. You'll have the oppurtunity to practice this watching the tach if you head out to some deserted parking lot or road... because you don't have to stare at the Starter you can experiment with different RPMs etc...

2: a Dyno run will give you a chart , but maximum power and an effective launch are not directly related in my opinion. Besides your eyes are busy, busy!!

3. I would tend to shift just short of reline..500 rpm as you generally do drop off at redline and will lose time. Again your eyes will be up the track looking at and through you r fellow racers..you got to feel it.

:smoking

[christofu]

Also, I think Budman already mentioned to get your feet on the pegs as quickly as possible, especially on bikes that don't rev super high (like a singles bike). If you don't get your feet on the pegs right away you can easily rev past the optimal shift point to 2nd, lose power and places.

[Holeshot]

If I had to list my strongest skill, it would certainly be starts. What I learned in Jetski racing, translated almost directly to Motorcycle racing. Here's my method:

1.) My warm up lap is to clean my tires off and warm my brakes up

2.) I line up in my grid position and imediately start searching for the line I'll take through the traffic. I work two alterante possibilities.

3.) I snap down my face shield at the "3" card.

At the "2" card I put the bike in gear and have the left foot on the ground and the right foot on the peg. My ass is in a comfortable position.

I begin to let the clutch out slowly so that the bike pushes against the back of my left calf. I'm constant with the throttle.

As the card turns to the "1" I let more and more clutch out and add a matching amount of gas until the pressure is high on my leg.

as the card turns "Sideways" I keep everything constant and look PAST the starter to my intended line (depending of course where I'm located) and concentrate on waiting to see ANY green. Peripheral vision is faster to note something that directly looking at something.

At Green, I slip the clutch as I add gas, keeping the front wheel as close to the ground as possible. Remember, with the front wheel OFF the ground, you won't be able to turn the bike to weave through traffic. It's far better to not get an amazing jump and instead be able to weave through traffic, then have to back out of the throttle mid start and lose momentum.

Also, my starts are very good because I realize the start does not end until T2 of any track. Continue your starting mentality until T2.

Also, make ALL your postitions up here if possible. Work as many lines as you can to make the best of the bunched up group.

Above all, visualize your start throughout the day before doing it. It helps to know what line you're going to take through T1 and T2, before actually getting there. WORK THE TRAFFIC! So many guys are content to follow each other around the first few turns. That's crazy!

I practice reaction timing at traffic lights. Not by actually racing, but tapping the gas with my foot when the light turns. Try it.

[mikeyjudkins]

Thanks dude! Great ideas to practice. I went out last weekend and I think my peak torque starts at 6,000 RPM. Thats where the best point for me to start a wheelie is at least. 9,000 seems too high.

Holeshot - thats interesting you keep your shift foot on the ground and rear brake foot up. I always thought it would be the opposite. So when you feel the bike pressing your calf its mainly the left footpeg correct?

btw what does "slipping" the clutch mean? I am familiar with "dumping" and "feathering", but not slipping.

MJ

[Holeshot]

slipping depending on your defintion, is the same as feathering.

Mikey, yeah, I keep my left foot on the ground. I choose the left cause all of the T1's at the AFM are left handed and thus having the bike leaned somewhat left is not a hinderance.