View Full Version : Red Light Violation
Romanesque84
06-02-2005, 07:04 PM
I just received an "Automatic Traffic Enforcement" notification in the mail, pictures and all, citing me for making a right turn without stopping when the light was red. It was 1030 at night in Fremont, there are clearly no other cars in the intersection, and I obviously did make the turn without stopping. This is the first ticket that I have ever received, and my question is whether or not I should go to court and fight the ticket, citing ignorance of the fact that I have to stop at right turns. I had no idea these photo enforced lights went off for right turns. I never stop for right turns! Are there any other options of recourse? I really don't have the money...Thanks for your help.
wackyiraqi
06-02-2005, 07:19 PM
Why do I suddenly have Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da stuck in my head?
Weird.
silversvs
06-02-2005, 10:34 PM
If you didn't know that you have to stop at all red lights, including when making a right turn, you need to review the drivers handbook. If you never stop for red lights before turning right you are lucky you are still alive. I'd suggest you get started on making that a habit.
As for the ticket, you earned it. Now ya gotta pay.
Burner
06-02-2005, 11:39 PM
maybe just say it wasn't you driving? i've heard of people getting out of them that way.
ladyRR
06-03-2005, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Burner
maybe just say it wasn't you driving? i've heard of people getting out of them that way.
The FPD traffic project manager has access to driver license photos and will enlarge the photo to see if it maches...you will then get a letter in the mail requesting you nominate the driver of the vehicle or you will be held responsible in court.
It's very difficult to get out of a red light ticket in Fremont.
My advise- go to court and tell the judge you screwed up...if I remeber correctly the fine for running a red light is a federal type fine that even a juge can't change (I might be wrong tho).
In that case ask for payments!
good luck!
For info Fremont has about 13 red light cameras.
Romanesque84
06-03-2005, 12:28 AM
Thanks guys...no excuses, and no lies. I guess I'll have to suck it up and pay. As for still being alive after never stopping for a red light turn - I always slow, isn't that enough?
awgeezdawn
06-03-2005, 12:54 AM
:|
wackyiraqi
06-03-2005, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Romanesque84
Thanks guys...no excuses, and no lies. I guess I'll have to suck it up and pay. As for still being alive after never stopping for a red light turn - I always slow, isn't that enough?
You should speed up. Pussy.
Burner
06-03-2005, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by ladyRR
The FPD traffic project manager has access to driver license photos and will enlarge the photo to see if it maches...you will then get a letter in the mail requesting you nominate the driver of the vehicle or you will be held responsible in court.
how much luck are they going to have doing that when it was at night time? and can they really make you tell them who was driving? maybe i forgot.
HellFyre
06-03-2005, 02:53 PM
I was recently in Pleasanton court for a fix-it ticket. A lot of the people were crying financial hardship and instead of paying the fine, they were assigned to performing public volunteer service, even clerking at the courthouse. I believe it was 1 hour for every $10 of the fine.
Maybe Fremont has something similar?
VTRweasel
06-03-2005, 03:02 PM
ask for a reduced fine or payments
JackTheTripper
06-03-2005, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Romanesque84
I always slow, isn't that enough? I had a green and whent through (straight) the intersection yesterday. A guy coming in from the right decided slowing was enough rather than stopping behind the crosswalk line and started to turn the corner. I had to slam on my breaks to avoid going through his drivers side door.
arnoha
06-03-2005, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by HellFyre
I was recently in Pleasanton court for a fix-it ticket. A lot of the people were crying financial hardship and instead of paying the fine, they were assigned to performing public volunteer service, even clerking at the courthouse. I believe it was 1 hour for every $10 of the fine.
Maybe Fremont has something similar?
Damn! I guess $10/hour is better than minimum wage...but I certainly wouldn't be picking that option! A red-light violation would be almost 40 hours!
Trogdor
06-03-2005, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by wackyiraqi
You should speed up. Pussy.
That is actually a good suggestion. At some point you must be able to run a red light fast enough that they can't snap a pic of you.
If you test this, let us know what speed is good :)
pandy
06-03-2005, 09:12 PM
http://www.ticketassassin.com./index.html
This is simply for informational purposes. I've never used said service, nor do I endorse it! But it sure looks interesting!
pandy :nerd
StuntrHuntr
06-03-2005, 11:44 PM
Maybe I missed something, but how can a still picture show you did not stop prior to reaching the limit line?
I know on a straight red light violation, they can produce a photo that shows where you were when the light was red and a second photo to show you were in the intersection while it was still red. If they have a picture of you behind the limit line and the light is red, how do they know (or how can they show) you did not stop and then go?
Originally posted by StuntrHuntr
Maybe I missed something, but how can a still picture show you did not stop prior to reaching the limit line?
That's what I thought too.
So, the first picture in your mail letter should have you crossed the white line while the light was already red.
Since you are making a right turn, the second picture should not have you (and your car) in the picture at all.
How can that be a ticket?
It cannot be a ticket unless the second picture shows that you are in between (crossing) the intersection while it is red.
For example, when you crossed the white line while it is red, it will trigger the camera. However, if you can make a emergency stop by not crossing all the way to the other side of the intersection (stop right after crossed the white line), you will not be in the second picture and you will be ok.
Anyway, $375 is way too much. I would go to the court and ask for a fine reduce.
CTP
Eisernkreuz
06-05-2005, 06:28 PM
This is why I wear my full-face helmet even when I drive in the car :laughing :p
ladyRR
06-06-2005, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by StuntrHuntr
Maybe I missed something, but how can a still picture show you did not stop prior to reaching the limit line?
I know on a straight red light violation, they can produce a photo that shows where you were when the light was red and a second photo to show you were in the intersection while it was still red. If they have a picture of you behind the limit line and the light is red, how do they know (or how can they show) you did not stop and then go?
It is not a still photo, in Fremont they use VIDEO which is then transfered to four photo's...1 shows the plate, one shows the driver, one shows the distance you were from the limit line and the light which has already turned red and the last picture shows you crossing the limit line. It also get's your speed and show that you accelerated while going through it if I remember correctly.
Does this answer your question?
ladyRR
06-06-2005, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by Burner
how much luck are they going to have doing that when it was at night time? and can they really make you tell them who was driving? maybe i forgot.
You'd be surprised just how clear they can get the picture. As far as making you admit who was driving, from what i understand if you say you dont know the person then they will investigate, possibly sending you to court as the responsible party who the vehicle belongs to.
If you do know the person, you are required to give them up or I believe there is a way they can hold you liable for your vehicle.
I'm not positive though, but from what I hear there isnt much problem identifying drivers.
cycles4fun
06-07-2005, 12:47 AM
Here is my experience. I also received a red light ticket in Fremont last year. I researched my different options on-line and learned a ton on the subject. They have actually ammended the law in a number of ways in an effort to fill in the loop holes. If you go to court and fight it they will have a representitive from the camera contractor which as I remember is Redflex out of Phoenix. These guys come in and are very well prepared. They will cover all the camera calibration details, explain the operation stratagy and so in. From what I hear by the time they are completed with their presentation most people fold and plead guilty. After much research on the subject I figured it would be a pretty tough one to fight and decided to go in, plead guilty and hope for a reduction in the fine. Besides, they had a good clear photo of me and the speed is also recorded which was 20mph over the posted limit! I was trying to make the light man! You did not mention if you were on your bike or in a car. If they have a poor crappy shot of you or you had a helmet on I would fight it. They have to prove it WAS you. The judge indicated with the exception of extream situations he was forced by the legislature to not reduce any of these red light violations fines so you have nothing to lose. It will not be reduced! On one of the cases the photo was clearly not the driver and the judge let him off. The guy said the driver was his friend visiting from overseas. Since he did not commit the crime he could not be held liable. Another lady was taking her friend to the hospital for an emergency. The judge asked for documentation proving her friend was admitted to the hospital and then lowered the fine in half! These guys are rough! The judge sees these cases by dozen daily and has heard everything. Your only real hope is if the photo is very poor quality. Keep in mind they have the negitive. If you plan to contest it they will reschedule you so they can have the camera contractor there. I dont know if they come with an enhanced photo of you in preparation of this. I cross these damm camera intersections everyday and sometimes its pretty close. The light has to turn red BEFORE your vehicle crosses the first line in the crosswalk. If it turns red after you have crossed it your okay. I think these lights actually cause more hazards than not. People will make split decisions if its close and then suddenly slam on their brakes potentially causing rear end collisions. I have personnally seen this! I would never advocate running a red light, however if you feel it is too close for comfort then tilt your head down on your helmeted head or if your in your car pull your visor down to cover your face. These fines are 342.00!!!! You can also purchase a reflective coating to paint your plate reducing the chances of a readable plate photo. Good luck!
My favorite was when I blew thru a red light with one of those photo things and I was in my new ride with dealer plates! I just smiled as they clicked away! And no I didn't do it on purpose.
Just a little note, anything that covers your license plate is illegal in California. Yes, even the spray on stuff.
get low
08-23-2005, 04:46 PM
I think theres something wrong with government cameras in public places. Seems a little '1984'. I mean where do you think THIS is going?
Stay home and out of the public. :teeth
rocketbunny
09-27-2005, 03:33 PM
Resurrecting an old thread and mainly just venting...
This morning on the way to work I came to a full stop (as I always do) when turning right against a red light from Bascom onto Hamilton. (It was clear, but I always stop first anyway)
The asshole behind me honked as I was coming to a stop. I ignored him, but geez - some people!
beaker
09-27-2005, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by get low
I think theres something wrong with government cameras in public places. Seems a little '1984'. I mean where do you think THIS is going?
You'd be surprised how many traffic cameras are out there now. And the antennas on the freeways are to track your speeds.
Wear your tinfoil hats now!
;)
Romanesque84
09-27-2005, 05:46 PM
Hey y'all...thanks for the advice. I ended up going to a court session and pleading guilty to failing to stop for a right turn on a red light, and my fine was reduced from $351 to $70 at which point I informed the commissioner (not judge) that I did not have a job and he let me do 7 hours of community service instead. I guess there are certain infractions which can have their fines lowered, and this was one of them. Speeding is another that is reducable, at the commissioner's discretion. Many infractions, such as running through a red light, carpool lane violations, and throwing trash out the window, have mandatory fines and cannot be reduced.
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