best way to gain confidence through twisties?

[a1yola]

I'm wondering if there are any techniques or practices that I, or anyone else, should do in order to gain more confidence when riding through the twisties.

I knew that I was slow, but I found out that I am REALLY slow compared to the other guys I rode with yesterday. They said I need to start leaning off the bike more and to accelerate faster through the turns. My problem is that when in the turn, I get kind of scared to accelerate hard...dont know why. Also, I tend to slow down before turns, way more than anyone else. My other problem is getting my ass off the seat. I try to do it, but can't seem to get it off when leaning to the right...this is getting frustrating.

I wont have a bike for a couple months, but I'd like to have a boosted confidence level when I get back on the road.
Any suggestions:confused

[rritterson]

How long have you been riding? It takes time and practice to get good.

Riding with people much faster than you isn't going to inspire any confidence either-- you're going to feel slow, then you're going to try hard, scare yourself, and get discouraged.

Everyone tells me the best way to gain confidence in corners fast is a track school or even a few track days.

[santa]

Lean forward. Lead with your head. That way you'll loosen up and take care of the stiff arms syndrome. Do it! Head first.

[easy_rider]

Originally posted by rritterson
How long have you been riding? It takes time and practice to get good.

Riding with people much faster than you isn't going to inspire any confidence either-- you're going to feel slow, then you're going to try hard, scare yourself, and get discouraged.

Everyone tells me the best way to gain confidence in corners fast is a track school or even a few track days.



+1 hanging with a fast rider it not gonna make you fast,it's just ending pushing your limit,and making a mistake,just ride your pace and you will get there;)

[ChAoS]

one way i learned is to set up for the turn before you go into it... ex. hang your ass off the bike without turning and when you go into the turn bring the bike to you so that you become more familiar with hanging off the bike and your not truing to think about it all at once. but like i said thats just one way that i was able to push myself into learning it.

[Ratters]

The most important thing is to ride your own ride. Then go take a class and do some track days.

That said, don't try and fight the bike. Look ahead, slide your butt off the seat a bit in the direction you want to turn and press on that bar. Find a stretch of road you know really well and that it is clean with no oil or gravel and go back and forth increasing your speed in tiny increments each time as you get more comfortable. I used to do a lap of on and off ramps in Walnut Creek because the offered nice long 270 degree turns that were safe and not very likely to get a ticket.

But most of all don't rush it. It's not a race out there, we are just out to have fun. I go out and ride with people much faster than I am, but I have fun going at my slower pace. I'm too old to enjoy the pucker factor anymore. Now it's about being smooth and not crashing. :)

[YMB22]

Just get to know the roads. When I first got my bike, my buddies would always make me go up there (at my own pace). I hated it. Semi-scared. I just wanted to pose. But, after getting to know the roads, my bike, and how to lean the bike over and stuff, you kinda automatically ride faster. It just takes time and practice. After awhile, you'll feel like you're the "fastest" guy out there. To keep you in check, some guy (with a girl on the back, both wearing T-shirts) on an R1'll pass you up on 84 (while you're in your one-piece exaggerating your turns) and remind you that you ain't shit. Well, that's what happend with me. Moral of the story - It'll just take time and a lot of practice. :)

[Sane_Man]

If you are getting scared, then you are going too fast. If you just work on your form; staying loose on the bars and shifting your weight, as someone else said, you will notice that you're getting faster. That's because you are riding smoother.

[Ezekiel]

Originally posted by a1yola
I wont have a bike for a couple months, but I'd like to have a boosted confidence level when I get back on the road.
Any suggestions:confused

Not having a bike, there is nothing you can do to gain more confidence. The best way to gain confidence is to ride. The more you ride, the better off you'll be.

[X-CBR MAN]

J/K. Track time and track school! Or maybe its the other way around.

[2legs2wheels]

I thougth you were selling your bike and stuff...

[orange 05-636]

dude, my advice is do like I do and go at your own pace.

[ScottRNelson]

Read Keith Code's A Twist Of The Wrist 2 (not the first book) and practice one thing at a time.

Read David L. Hough's Proficient Motorcycling and More Proficient Motorcycling (especially chapter 7), paying attention to the cornering techniques sections.

Work on being smooth and never having to make mid-course corrections. You're probably better off doing the majority of your riding alone, or with a mentor behind you, until you finally feel that you're a confident rider.

The most important thing is to practice a lot. It helps to pick one section of road that you like, a few miles long, and ride it over and over and over. Keep count until you've gone through there 100 times. Go back and read the books in between practice sessions.

[tuxumino]

Originally posted by a1yola

I wont have a bike for a couple months, but I'd like to have a boosted confidence level when I get back on the road.
Any suggestions:confused

ride a bicycle down steep roads, yes that's means you gotta pedal the damn thing up 'em.

Read, get books on better sportbike riding, like: twist of the wristII, practical sport bike riding and Gary Jaene's book.

[Hoologan]

There was a thread a few days ago called "slower is faster" or something. The jist was if you stay relaxed and do not pay attention to your speedo, but instead use your judgement. You will be faster before you know it. Practice judging your speed with your eye, not your speedo. The most important thing is to stay relaxed.

[Yody]

To me the most important thing is to look, all the books/instructors will all tell you this and let me tell you, it made the single biggest improvement in my riding.

If you look at any pics of any racers on the track, in the turn there head is always pointed farther into the turn, as they are always looking towards the end of the turn, NOT in front of them.

When you can learn to look ahead you will naturally ride faster. My friend was doing the exact same thing as you and when he started practicing looking ahead, he got way faster. Not looking ahead is what made me always run off the road or go wide. Because you go where you look.

Its especially important on long sweepers to keep adjusting your head around the turn, if you don't you will go around the first part of the turn, and then run off the road, because when your head was turned the first time you were fine, but now half way through the turn, if you haven't readjusted your sight you will now be looking straight ahead and run right off that road!

Don't worry about hanging off the bike until you can go throught the same turns pretty fast, and you think that to go faster the bike has to lean harder, then you will need to start hanging off some, which can just be a little bit. Just before the turn kinda position your butt to the side just a little and it will come natural. don't try to do to much at first. You will just look silly. Just a little bit of weight shift on the seat will do a lot.

Also don't have your right hand on the throttle and the brake. If you hit the brake through the turn its curtains. Sometimes through too fast of a turn its natural to look straight ahead instead of through the turn, which will make the bike stand up, and then you will hit the brake=crash. Instead just re adjust your sight, look through the turn and lean! Your bike is going to be able to take just about any speed/turn you are going to try, so just remember to trust the bike, LOOK THROUGHT THE TURN, and lean. and make sure all your braking and downshifting is done way before the turn, you should e ready to accelerate throught the turn

[nexus]

Something I still have yet to fully grasp is why people are so concerned about "being fast". Why does it matter? If you're going fast enough to scare yourself you would think that for the time being that is fast enough.

Obviously I dont know a damn thing. :)

[repsol73]

Hey Yody, very well said. When I first started I had the same problem and I seem to go back to it when I dont ride or dont ride twisties for a while. Then I go back to practicing the basics as you mentioned, and I'm back in the game.

[easy_rider]

Originally posted by yody
To me the most important thing is to look, all the books/instructors will all tell you this and let me tell you, it made the single biggest improvement in my riding.

If you look at any pics of any racers on the track, in the turn there head is always pointed farther into the turn, as they are always looking towards the end of the turn, NOT in front of them.

When you can learn to look ahead you will naturally ride faster. My friend was doing the exact same thing as you and when he started practicing looking ahead, he got way faster. Not looking ahead is what made me always run off the road or go wide. Because you go where you look.

Its especially important on long sweepers to keep adjusting your head around the turn, if you don't you will go around the first part of the turn, and then run off the road, because when your head was turned the first time you were fine, but now half way through the turn, if you haven't readjusted your sight you will now be looking straight ahead and run right off that road!

Don't worry about hanging off the bike until you can go throught the same turns pretty fast, and you think that to go faster the bike has to lean harder, then you will need to start hanging off some, which can just be a little bit. Just before the turn kinda position your butt to the side just a little and it will come natural. don't try to do to much at first. You will just look silly. Just a little bit of weight shift on the seat will do a lot.

Also don't have your right hand on the throttle and the brake. If you hit the brake through the turn its curtains. Sometimes through too fast of a turn its natural to look straight ahead instead of through the turn, which will make the bike stand up, and then you will hit the brake=crash. Instead just re adjust your sight, look through the turn and lean! Your bike is going to be able to take just about any speed/turn you are going to try, so just remember to trust the bike, LOOK THROUGHT THE TURN, and lean. and make sure all your braking and downshifting is done way before the turn, you should e ready to accelerate throught the turn





+10000 Very good advise:thumbup

[Hoologan]

Originally posted by yody
To me the most important thing is to look, all the books/instructors will all tell you this and let me tell you, it made the single biggest improvement in my riding.

If you look at any pics of any racers on the track, in the turn there head is always pointed farther into the turn, as they are always looking towards the end of the turn, NOT in front of them.

When you can learn to look ahead you will naturally ride faster. My friend was doing the exact same thing as you and when he started practicing looking ahead, he got way faster. Not looking ahead is what made me always run off the road or go wide. Because you go where you look.

Its especially important on long sweepers to keep adjusting your head around the turn, if you don't you will go around the first part of the turn, and then run off the road, because when your head was turned the first time you were fine, but now half way through the turn, if you haven't readjusted your sight you will now be looking straight ahead and run right off that road!

Don't worry about hanging off the bike until you can go throught the same turns pretty fast, and you think that to go faster the bike has to lean harder, then you will need to start hanging off some, which can just be a little bit. Just before the turn kinda position your butt to the side just a little and it will come natural. don't try to do to much at first. You will just look silly. Just a little bit of weight shift on the seat will do a lot.

Also don't have your right hand on the throttle and the brake. If you hit the brake through the turn its curtains. Sometimes through too fast of a turn its natural to look straight ahead instead of through the turn, which will make the bike stand up, and then you will hit the brake=crash. Instead just re adjust your sight, look through the turn and lean! Your bike is going to be able to take just about any speed/turn you are going to try, so just remember to trust the bike, LOOK THROUGHT THE TURN, and lean. and make sure all your braking and downshifting is done way before the turn, you should e ready to accelerate throught the turn

+1
I agree, good advice. However, I believe you should always be in the habit of leaving a finger on the brake just incase.

Also A1yola, don't be so worried about looking silly, because right now you are experimenting with different techniques, some which may look silly to others who are so vain as to judge you, but if you worry about it, you are just taking the focus away from your riding and could end up in the dirt. Do what you feel is most comfortable. You will find your niche eventually and it will all fall into place. Just practice.

[Climber]

Don't be in a rush to get maximum lean, it will come in time. If you're riding at a rate that's scaring you then you're riding too fast. If these are your buddies then they'll either understand that you need to work up to their speed and wait for you at periodic places or they need an attitude change.

The best way to progress quickly on cornering is to do a track day, it is far, far, far safer to push your limit on the track where you don't have cars, trees, guardrails, etc. that can really do damage to you and your bike. Most tracks have long runoff spaces and pretty smooth pavement. In addition you'd be doing the same corners many times during the day and can slowly increase your lean/speed each time to take the corner so that you can learn what you and your bikes are capable of.

[lamkee]

i have been practicing the same turns over and over again. i feel that i turn much better to the right than i do to the left.

also, i think it's much easier to turn while going up hill and it is down. are there reasons to explain why it is so?

[chrono-X]

Originally posted by nexus
Something I still have yet to fully grasp is why people are so concerned about "being fast". Why does it matter? If you're going fast enough to scare yourself you would think that for the time being that is fast enough.

Obviously I dont know a damn thing. :)

+ 1

I want to go fast, but i want to go fast without shitting in my pants. And besides, i've been riding less than a year so what do i need to prove? Having fun is all that matters, and if having fun means full throttling on the straight and braking at the turns is fun for you, then go do it. If you like to go slow to enjoy the scenary vs. racing down highway 9, that's cool too. I like a mixture of things, sometimes i feel like Rossi, sometimes i feel like the old guy on the Goldwing just taking their sweet time.

Originally posted by lamkee
i have been practicing the same turns over and over again. i feel that i turn much better to the right than i do to the left.

also, i think it's much easier to turn while going up hill and it is down. are there reasons to explain why it is so?

I'm better at turning left than turning right. I think you'll get about 50% of ppl telling you they like left turns and the other 48% likes right turn and 2% that doesnt turn.

Going uphill is ALWAYS easier than going downhill. When going downhill, you have gravity pulling on you meaning you cant be stupid on the throttle and you have to be smart on the brakes. While on uphill, you need to fight gravity so you can always give more gas and use less brakes.
http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/929/themoreyouknow8yw.jpg

[pvd]

practice

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by a1yola
I'm wondering if there are any techniques or practices that I, or anyone else, should do in order to gain more confidence when riding through the twisties.

I knew that I was slow, but I found out that I am REALLY slow compared to the other guys I rode with yesterday. They said I need to start leaning off the bike more and to accelerate faster through the turns. My problem is that when in the turn, I get kind of scared to accelerate hard...dont know why. Also, I tend to slow down before turns, way more than anyone else. My other problem is getting my ass off the seat. I try to do it, but can't seem to get it off when leaning to the right...this is getting frustrating.

I wont have a bike for a couple months, but I'd like to have a boosted confidence level when I get back on the road.
Any suggestions:confused

Well, I can tell you this, Nothing, I repeat, Nothing, not training videos, not personal coaching sessions with Rossi, not coaching tips from the fastest guy you've ever encountered is any replacement for miles under your belt. All of those other things can help you develop faster and with better principals, but more miles, ANY miles on your bike make you better. If you want to get faster, live on the bike, commute on it, go to the grocery store on it, visit your friends on it. Ride, ride, ride in the rain, in the Sun, on the freeway, on the streets, in the backroads. Ride everywhere, all the time and you will learn what you want.

[NoGall]

Originally posted by Eldritch
Ride, ride, ride in the rain, in the Sun, on the freeway, on the streets, in the backroads. Ride everywhere, all the time and you will learn what you want.

That's alot of riding. Man, I am already tired from just reading that paragraph.

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by NoGall
That's alot of riding. Man, I am already tired from just reading that paragraph.

It's all about the love baby, all about the love. When my rats work, I ride all the time, my cages just gather dust.

We need to go out again one of these days, do you Team Geritolians ever wait until a decent hour to get started?

[scepter]

to be fast you have to be white. white people are just plan nutz when it comes to sports. they don't care man. i'm atleast half white so i might have a chance to get better.

[autoredial]

You can probably take 100% of the turns without getting off your seat. Most guys who do drag knee don't need to drag, they just want to. If you are going so fast that you actually need to drag, then you are going way too fast for the uncontrolled conditions of public roads. You should be scared at that speed because you have NO control if something unexpected happens.

[faz]

When you get a bike, start riding it at speeds at which you are not getting too tight on the handle bars. Keep riding at those speeds ONLY and you will see that they increase, little by little, as time goes by.

Unless you are of course in a hurry to get fast soon, and if that is the case, my sincere comment is to stay away from motorcycles altogether.

Also, attend a few of Doc Wong's free riding clinics. They help a lot.

[Thirdnalga]

drop it a few times, to know just where the limit is, you have to pass it.

remember to go limp :twofinger

[GiorgioFurioso]

Originally posted by Eldritch
Ride, ride, ride in the rain, in the Sun, on the freeway, on the streets, in the backroads. Ride everywhere, all the time and you will learn what you want.

I have to respectfully disagree. While riding a lot is certainly a good idea, good sport riding technique won't come naturally from riding a lot, and in fact the rider may break his neck while trying to do so. So I feel this advice is bordering on dangerous. A rider really needs 1-on-1 instruction is order to get faster, safely. Trying to do it alone by putting on a lot of miles and "pushing it" (I know you didn't say to push it, I'm just inferring what will most likely happen) is a recipe for disaster.

Here's a metaphor: it's like you're telling a guy who wants to play guitar better (but who doesn't know what a scale is), that all he needs to do is just play more guitar, night and day. But the fact is, it's not gonna happen that way. He could play his heart out until his fingers bleed for many years, and what he'll most likely learn are more bad habits that will have to be unlearned later on. Someone really needs to show him some scales and talk some theory. Otherwise he'll be wasting most of his life figuring out stuff that should have only taken months to learn from a good teacher. At least with a guitar, though, if you screw up Stairway To Heaven, your guitar doesn't get splintered and leave you in a body cast.

Personal experience: When I learned to snowboard, the first thing I did was take a lesson (several, actually over several weekends). I rapidly became a competent boarder. Sure, I could have done it entirely on my own, but it would have taken forever, and who knows how I might have injured myself along the way, the way I did when I first learned to ski. By the end of my first season on a snowboard I was easily taking on most of the expert runs, but only because I had some decent instruction.

Anyway, my advice to the original poster is to get one of his friends who he trusts, preferably an older and more mature friend who is wise enough not to endanger the life of a less experienced rider, and take it to the twisties. Ride "the pace". Take turns leading and following. Stop frequently to get feedback/advice. Practice your FORM in the twisties, not SPEED. I won't bother describing proper form; your friend should be able to fill you in on all that. When you're comforatble with the form, it's time to go to the track.

And for f*cks sake, if you're coming up on a turn and there is a speed sign indicating 20 or 15 mph for the turn, don't go faster than that until you know what you're doing. Those slow speed turns are almost always a decreasing radius turn, and they will bite you hard if you try to fly through them.

Reading all the books mentioned is not a bad idea, but you still need to put it in to practice, preferably with a more experienced rider watching out for you.

So anyway...riding a lot is good, but you should seek out the help of someone more experienced if you really want to improve (and live).

Disclaimer: I suck. Don't listen to a thing I a say, unless you think it really makes sense for you.

[Samurang]

When I first started riding streetbikes, I used go up to 4 corners and wait for some riders to pull out of there, then I would follow them. I'd study their form, their lines, and often "hook in" on them. Match their pace or try at least. There are a lot of good riders up there. Then go back to 4 corners and do it again.

Also helps to familiarize yourself with the roads, which comes with seat time.

[sytfu_RR]

as Samurang said, When I first started to ride with my friends I used to watch the guy in front when I first started out, just like you I used to be scared to go through the turns, but after watching others and following them and also going through the road alot I'm slowly progressing, remember theres no rush, just desinate a point in which you guys can meet at the end, and just ride at your own pace. Now I can keep up with them, even though I dont get as "low" so I still have those delicous chicken strips, but that'll go away all in due time.

[silverbelt]

Just ride your ride and practice. Competence will come eventually if you read the above posts and use good form. A track day certainly won't hurt. Best advice I have is NOT FOLLOWING the fastest guy out there trying to catch up. He is much more experienced than you and will only cause you to make mistakes by not focusing on good technique.

[swerv512]

Like eveyone else here is telling you... ride at a pace you are comfortable with. Alot of us buy these superbikes with dreams of dragging knees and dropping biaggi if we ever see him on the street, but the fact is that streets are not the best place to learn to go fast. Trust me, i sent my bike down several times trying to do exactly what your searching for- MORE SPEED, MORE CONFIDENCE. I'll tell you this, confidence only comes in small packges on the road. Even if you listen to the guy who says that you got to find your limits sometimes by going too fast, or leaning too far, and then falling off - the highways are no place to scare yourself. Better to ride safe that to spend $$$ and regrets when you make a mistake.

DO A TRACKDAY- lord knows I need to. ..
Why do i spend so much $$$ on the bike and not on my skillz....????

[07chuck]

There is no substitute for seat time... until you have ridden enough you will have no idea of what or how... There is no book that can teach you until you understand what the book is talking about... I would suggest an advanced MSF course. Punks like the y.dster will say the gear/saftey nazis(like me) are just pissing on your parade...I say yes, I am, and I mean it, better a wet warm spray from me than the cold breath of a oxygen mask in a heli. Nothing ruins a ride like having to help land a helicopter(but I'm really glad they are there).

[Red6Rdr]

I was going through a dry spell in the twisties to. After 3 seperate occassions of crossing over the DB up at Alice's I was getting into a bad funk and irritated that I was actually getting worse at riding. But I realized that I just need to go do it more and keep practicing and not push it. Pushing it will get your bike over those dangerous yellow lines.

[ScottRNelson]

Originally posted by EmoElvis
I have to respectfully disagree. While riding a lot is certainly a good idea, good sport riding technique won't come naturally from riding a lot, and in fact the rider may break his neck while trying to do so.
The snowboarding example was nice and all, but I'm going to have to disagree a bit with your post as well. There's a big difference between trying to learn totally on your own and trying to learn with the help of people like Keith Code, David L. Hough, and others who have really studied how to ride safely.

And I didn't see anything in the original post about wanting to be a fast rider. I suppose maybe "not slow" kind of means that, but the rider seems to want confidence rather than speed.

I still stick by my advice:
Read Keith Code's A Twist Of The Wrist 2 (not the first book) and practice one thing at a time.

Read David L. Hough's Proficient Motorcycling and More Proficient Motorcycling (especially chapter 7), paying attention to the cornering techniques sections.

Work on being smooth and never having to make mid-course corrections. You're probably better off doing the majority of your riding alone, or with a mentor behind you, until you finally feel that you're a confident rider.

The most important thing is to practice a lot. It helps to pick one section of road that you like, a few miles long, and ride it over and over and over. Keep count until you've gone through there 100 times. Go back and read the books in between practice sessions.

[GiorgioFurioso]

You'r confusing me...you sound as if I was directing my post at you. I was not. If you re-read my post, you'll see that your advice and my advice are not very far apart. I'm just trying to emphasize that riding with another person who will help you out in real time is the best way to go. Trying to learn with the help of Keith Code etc. is best when Keith Code (or one of his instructors) is actually there.

BTW, I plan to do one of his classes soon. Because I'd much rather put his concepts in to practice in a safe environment (i.e. NOT on public highways) with an experienced instructor.

Originally posted by ScottRNelson
The snowboarding example was nice and all, but I'm going to have to disagree a bit with your post as well. There's a big difference between trying to learn totally on your own and trying to learn with the help of people like Keith Code, David L. Hough, and others who have really studied how to ride safely.

And I didn't see anything in the original post about wanting to be a fast rider. I suppose maybe "not slow" kind of means that, but the rider seems to want confidence rather than speed.

I still stick by my advice:

[ScottRNelson]

Originally posted by EmoElvis
You're confusing me...you sound as if I was directing my post at you. I was not. If you re-read my post, you'll see that your advice and my advice are not very far apart.
The only point I'm trying to make is that it's possible to learn to ride well just using books rather than having to ride with other, more experienced riders or take lessons. The other methods are also good, just not the only way.


We haven't heard from the original poster again. I'm curious what good he's gotten from all of this advice.

[Hoologan]

You guys are all right. Obviously people learn in different ways. When one person may need hands on training from a professional, others can read books like TOTW, Total Control, Prof. MC, Sportbike Techniques, etc. and combine that with time in the saddle practicing and be just as well off.

Personally, I read those books and have 8,000 miles under my belt since July 2005. I feel as if I am doing fine, but I would like to persue professional direction now by means of track days and professional instruction to further hone my riding skills. You can't go wrong with reading the books, COMPREHENDING (very important) what it's saying, and applying the skills learned to practice. Take it slow, don't worry how you look, and you will start to feel more comfortable.

[NoGall]

Originally posted by Eldritch
It's all about the love baby, all about the love. When my rats work, I ride all the time, my cages just gather dust.

We need to go out again one of these days, do you Team Geritolians ever wait until a decent hour to get started?

Yah, man, I was just playing... Ride, ride, and ride some more. Read, read, and read some more. If you have extra $$, attend a track school or two.

The Geritols have been seeing some 9 to 10am start times. I doubt that will stay long once the weather warms up...

[Ha_725]

are there any links to read more on turning??
like steps, forms, etc...

[ScottRNelson]

Originally posted by Ha_725
are there any links to read more on turning??
like steps, forms, etc...
Try these: TOTW2 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965045021/ref=pd_kar_gw_2/002-1624796-4868055?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155) PM (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1889540536/qid=1141336615/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/002-1624796-4868055?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) MPM (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931993033/ref=pd_bxgy_text_b/002-1624796-4868055?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

[CoorsLight]

Troo there's no subsitiute for seat time, unless you are practicing wrong. If you ride with bad habits, the more you practice them, the harder they are to get rid of when you really start to improve.

I'd say go out with good riders, and have them follow you, instead of you follow them. One really bad habit is to fixate on the movements of the rider in front, which will prevent you from learning how to "loosen" your eyes and turn your head.

Three main things to look out for is:
1. Relax your arms and hands.
2. Open the throttle--just barely--as soon as possible.
3. Keep the chin pointed thru the turn.

BTW, didn't you get that steering damper? Not helping much at this point, huh?:teeth

[a1yola]

thanks for all the advice guys! To answer a few of your guys' questions, YES, I ma selling the bike. But during the down time, I will be able to use a couple other bikes.

I definitely do not puch myself. The last time I rode, my buddy pushed himself to try and keep up with more experienced riders and he bailed:wow Right when I saw that I happen, I told him to stay at MY pace, which was a lot slower than the other guys. I certainly feel more comfortable when heading down the same road on the way home. I guess its because I have a feel for the turns and am able to relax more, which, from what you guys are saying, is one of the key concepts...relaxing.

When turning, I do turn my head to look the direction that Im heading, but I get bervous thinkning that I may have not seen something in thr road while looking ahead, which then makes me look straight again, distracting my concentration to look ahead. That is definitely something I will be working on.

As far as leaning, I tend to slide my ass of the seat, but i still dont seem to get very low. One of the more experienced guys was riding behind me and said that since I wasnt leaning enough, it caused me to take turns a lot slower than Im capable of. SO next time im out there, I'll try to relax my arms, control my throttle, look ahead, and go.

I will try to ride as much as possible...but I think I am capable of gaining confidence as long as I follow the techniques you all have adviced me to do. Thanks:teeth

[Yody]

Originally posted by a1yola


When turning, I do turn my head to look the direction that Im heading, but I get bervous thinkning that I may have not seen something in thr road while looking ahead, which then makes me look straight again, distracting my concentration to look ahead. That is definitely something I will be working on.

As far as leaning, I tend to slide my ass of the seat, but i still dont seem to get

I know exactly what you mean about the "looking at the ground thing" This only should last for a little, at first this is normal, but when you start going faster, everything is happening faster and looking ahead gets a lot easier. Its when you are going slow it is distracting to look ahead, but when u get going it will become natural.

You might try countersteering harder to get the bike to initially lean harder/go down, so it will be lower and the weight of your body will keep it leaning through the turn. Just remember to be all setup before the turn

[CoorsLight]

Originally posted by a1yola


When turning, I do turn my head to look the direction that Im heading, but I get bervous thinkning that I may have not seen something in thr road while looking ahead, which then makes me look straight again, distracting my concentration to look ahead. That is definitely something I will be working on.



Learn to "loosen" or "unfocus" your eyes. You should be able to pay attention to the road way up ahead, as well as the road right in front of you by not focusing on either one. Try watching TV out of the corner of your eye. Don't focus on one depth. Unfocus so you see everything at once, and your eyes don't dart back and forth.

Seriously if I was you I wouldn't distract myself thinking about body position yet. You aren't going fast enough for it to make much of a difference unless you are "dirtbiking" it. Keep your ass on the seat spend that attention on eyes, arms, and throttle.

[zanshin]

Originally posted by a1yola
I'm wondering if there are any techniques or practices that I, or anyone else, should do in order to gain more confidence when riding through the twisties.

I knew that I was slow, but I found out that I am REALLY slow compared to the other guys I rode with yesterday. They said I need to start leaning off the bike more and to accelerate faster through the turns. My problem is that when in the turn, I get kind of scared to accelerate hard...dont know why. Also, I tend to slow down before turns, way more than anyone else. My other problem is getting my ass off the seat. I try to do it, but can't seem to get it off when leaning to the right...this is getting frustrating.

I wont have a bike for a couple months, but I'd like to have a boosted confidence level when I get back on the road.
Any suggestions:confused



Trade in for a Honda Civic.











With CVT.

















:twofinger

[Dion Rides]

When you get your bike again... go to a trackday/trackschool. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy at first, but trackriding is a safe, controlled environment with dozens of people willing to give pointers without any attitudes. By the end of the day, you are riding in and around groups, feeling comfortable getting passed, and getting the feel of leaning the bike.

In my experience, racing was the pinnacle of my motorcycle confidence. I'm not saying you need to do that, but learning in a controlled environment is best.

Seat time is good, but what you're trying to build is skill, and even riders with tons of seat time may not necessarily be the most skilled riders: nobody is there to teach them the rights and wrongs of their technique. As a rider who is in the twisties at least 4X a week riding at a spirited pace, I have seen many "seat time" riders make very stupid mistakes.

The last thing you need (if you're as nervous as you appear to be) is to be on HWY 9 and have kneedraggers buzz by you in the triple digits. That was my experience on the twisties when I first started hitting them regularly, however I had plenty of motorcycle experience before then for the basic mechanics of it all.

Just remember when you first learned how to ride a bicycle: did you do it in the middle of downtown San Francisco in peak traffic? Or did you do it on some side street or schoolyard with an adult holding you up and guiding the along... probably the latter. The same goes with motorcycles: get proper instruction and internalize the proper skill set to be smooth and confident, and speed just comes naturally.

[artyom666]

I didn't read through the whole thing - basically go at your own pace. Don't ride with your friends, or don't follow them too closely.
Take your time, look through the corner, don't fight the bike. Better slow than crashed.
I noticed on Mines a lot of guys race in packs of 5-6 bikes. If one of them looses, or takes corner on a wrong line - they all gonna go. I seen that.

[Sidewalk]

A lot of posts that I don't feel like going through, so just my opinions.


1 - slow down
2 - track schools
3 - find new people to ride with.

Anyone who says to ride more aggressive to keep up shouldn't be helping you to ride better. It is one thing to help someone correct poor form that ends up making them faster, another to encourage you to go faster. Never go faster then you are comfortable. There are times when I may only ride at half of my capacity just because it doesn't feel right at the time. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the ride, I wouldn't enjoy the ride otherwise.

[cardinal03]

I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has already been said, but in my opinion if your goal is to be fast, your thinking is completely backwards.

Your goal should be to be smooth and controlled, the rest, particularly speed and confidence, will come by itself. Always better to arrive an hour late in one piece than to never arrive at all.

[dvsdesigner]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, buuuuttt....

Is there a good track day for people who are totally new to the track? Is there a FAQ site about Sears Pt. or Infineon or whatever it is?

I went down on the way up to 4 corners when I was JUST starting. I know, I know, awful idea to go to Alice's for a newb...

Cut to a year and 7,000 mi later and I still don't feel relaxed riding twisties. I don't even enjoy it in the slightest. :confused I commute on my bike, and feel comfortable going fast... just as long as it's in a relatively straight line. :teeth

Will I ever recover from my post-traumatic bs, or should I just give-up on the idea of ever enjoying a ride up to Alice's?

Is there such a thing as a motorcyclist that doesn't carve?:confused

:green Don't like the idea of another trip to Stanford ER. :green

[Dion Rides]

Originally posted by dvsdesigner
I'm not trying to hijack this thread, buuuuttt....

Is there a good track day for people who are totally new to the track? Is there a FAQ site about Sears Pt. or Infineon or whatever it is?

I went down on the way up to 4 corners when I was JUST starting. I know, I know, awful idea to go to Alice's for a newb...

Cut to a year and 7,000 mi later and I still don't feel relaxed riding twisties. I don't even enjoy it in the slightest. :confused I commute on my bike, and feel comfortable going fast... just as long as it's in a relatively straight line. :teeth

Will I ever recover from my post-traumatic bs, or should I just give-up on the idea of ever enjoying a ride up to Alice's?

Is there such a thing as a motorcyclist that doesn't carve?:confused

:green Don't like the idea of another trip to Stanford ER. :green

Dude, not sure if you read my post, but:

When you get your bike again... go to a trackday/trackschool. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy at first, but trackriding is a safe, controlled environment with dozens of people willing to give pointers without any attitudes. By the end of the day, you are riding in and around groups, feeling comfortable getting passed, and getting the feel of leaning the bike.

In my experience, racing was the pinnacle of my motorcycle confidence. I'm not saying you need to do that, but learning in a controlled environment is best.

Seat time is good, but what you're trying to build is skill, and even riders with tons of seat time may not necessarily be the most skilled riders: nobody is there to teach them the rights and wrongs of their technique. As a rider who is in the twisties at least 4X a week riding at a spirited pace, I have seen many "seat time" riders make very stupid mistakes.

The last thing you need (if you're as nervous as you appear to be) is to be on HWY 9 and have kneedraggers buzz by you in the triple digits. That was my experience on the twisties when I first started hitting them regularly, however I had plenty of motorcycle experience before then for the basic mechanics of it all.

Just remember when you first learned how to ride a bicycle: did you do it in the middle of downtown San Francisco in peak traffic? Or did you do it on some side street or schoolyard with an adult holding you up and guiding the along... probably the latter. The same goes with motorcycles: get proper instruction and internalize the proper skill set to be smooth and confident, and speed just comes naturally.

There are plenty of different trackschools available - most of the big trackday organizers have a school i.e. Keigwins. *Shameless Plug* I know we'll be having a meeting this weekend looking into organizing another school day for SuperMoto riders.

I think you will recover from the post traumatic BS, it's just that you have to build the correct skill set for that style of riding - and a trackday/trackschool is a good way to go.

[darkie]

On the visual aspect of riding, I very much agree with the concept of looking into the corner.

The question is when do you look and how far into the corner?

A good rule of thumb is this sequence:

1) Approach the corner and look at where you are going to turn the bike (your turn point).

2) Once you are just about to your turn point and know you will make it, look in towards the apex and then turn it.

3) As you approach the apex and know that you are going to hit it, shift your eyes to the exit.

You are in effect staying 1/2 a step ahead of yourself visually. This does not mean that you fixate on the turn point, apex and exit, you definitley want to have a wide view and take in the other aspects of the road at the same time especially in traffic and with other riders on the road.

This goes with the saying: "You go where you look."

[Samurang]

Originally posted by darkie
On the visual aspect of riding, I very much agree with the concept of looking into the corner.

The question is when do you look and how far into the corner?

A good rule of thumb is this sequence:

1) Approach the corner and look at where you are going to turn the bike (your turn point).

2) Once you are just about to your turn point and know you will make it, look in towards the apex and then turn it.

3) As you approach the apex and know that you are going to hit it, shift your eyes to the exit.

You are in effect staying 1/2 a step ahead of yourself visually. This does not mean that you fixate on the turn point, apex and exit, you definitley want to have a wide view and take in the other aspects of the road at the same time especially in traffic and with other riders on the road.

This goes with the saying: "You go where you look."

+1 on that.

[Traq]

Ride your own pace. Never try to keep up with people. Enjoy your ride.

The title of the post would more appropriately have been "best way to become an idiot through twisties" IMO since it contained nothing that indicated you weren't already confident. In other words, just because you're riding slower than some dumbshit that doesn't know where the track is and is more than likely outriding his abilities and sight distances, doesn't mean you lack confidence.

Hey, I got passed by a Harley a couple weeks ago up on 128 in the twisties. Does it matter? No. Did my dick shrivel up and fall off? No. Was I having a nice ride? Yes. Shocking, huh? :rolleyes

/rantoff

[Yody]

were you sticking your knees out like a chicken too?? :) lol

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by EmoElvis
I have to respectfully disagree...

...Disclaimer: I suck. Don't listen to a thing I a say, unless you think it really makes sense for you.

Please don't misunderstand my statement, as I had stated previously, all the training etc. can give you a better foundation to build on and mentoring is great, but the main point I was getting at is that no hot tips, no knowledge of great tricks or swell style changes are a replacement for having been there and done that. My post was a statement against getting a head full of hot shit tips and then heading out there to go, "Kick Ass," with your new hot shot tips, which will result in a rider getting in over his head due to a false sense of confidence built on information he has not yet mastered.

Capice?

[GiorgioFurioso]

Originally posted by Eldritch
Please don't misunderstand my statement, as I had stated previously, all the training etc. can give you a better foundation to build on and mentoring is great, but the main point I was getting at is that no hot tips, no knowledge of great tricks or swell style changes are a replacement for having been there and done that. My post was a statement against getting a head full of hot shit tips and then heading out there to go, "Kick Ass," with your new hot shot tips, which will result in a rider getting in over his head due to a false sense of confidence built on information he has not yet mastered.

Capice?

Capice. I responded because more than once I've seen someone saying there is no subsitute for seat time, but then not qualifying it, and I felt (for the sake of the new rider asking about this), that it needed some qualification.

While I agree that seat time is essential, someone who has done 10K miles that were all commuting will likely not have a good grip on what it takes to be confident in the twisties, whereas someone who has only 2K miles all in the twisties may be a newb, but will likely be a more competent rider.

The metaphor I used in another thread was: there is 20 years experience, then there is one years experience repeated 20 times. So I extend that metaphor to this: seat time alone is neither an effective measure of competency, nor should it a blind goal for a new rider in an effort to gain confidence.

If you qualify your original statement about seat time, it makes a lot more sense, i.e. to get confidene in the twisties, there is no substitute for experience in riding the twisties. Then follows the discussion of all the best/safest ways to bootstrap a rookie in to riding safely in the twisties.

I'm a vocal proponent of getting a riding mentor for anyone who wants to ride a sportbike well. This is due to my own experience. A good frined of mine, who is an A group rider and will be competing in AFM this year, took me under his wing early on and gave me one-on-one help in the twisties. We worked on form and smoothness, not speed. After several sessions with him, I knew what I needed to do and practiced it, a lot. By the time I did my first track day, none of my issues were about form, because I had it down. Although I had other issues, of course! :blush

But even with the mentoring, early on I still had a couple of close calls in the twisties, but I luckily kept it together. If I had just been entirely on my own, even armed with some fine book-learnin', I don't know that it would have come out so well for me.

Anyway, most of us know someone who has died or been seriously injured on a bike. So when a rookie asks a question about gaining confidence in the twisties, I get a little alarmed, and want to give him the best info for him to get where he wants to be in as safe a manner as possible. Because I hate those RIP threads...they are oh-so-gary!

So maybe I'll see some of you guys at the next Doc Wong clininc (this one on cornering/sttering input) on 3/19? I've been riding nothing but twisties, and I'm confident in my cornering, but I've learned that it is best to always be humble, and to be open to learning something new no matter how experienced I think I am. Plus, the clinic is free!

Eldritch, I'm really writing all this for the benefit of the original poster, I'm not trying to lecture you or anything.

Ride safe everyone!!!!!

[JoneZ]

hm

tuck your elbows down and in, stay loose, keep your head down and get comfortable leaning the bike over

every one set of 1 ride is 1 step so if you rode all day and learned X values that day, bottle it as 1 step as you need experience and comfidence and that will not come overnight.

riding with friends will never help you unless there is a very found understanding they are there to help you and are sacraficing the day to help you

take it easy, clear your mind and forget the ego part. Then you can have alot of fun

[dvsdesigner]

Originally posted by XRsick50
Dude, not sure if you read my post, but:



There are plenty of different trackschools available - most of the big trackday organizers have a school i.e. Keigwins. *Shameless Plug* I know we'll be having a meeting this weekend looking into organizing another school day for SuperMoto riders.

I think you will recover from the post traumatic BS, it's just that you have to build the correct skill set for that style of riding - and a trackday/trackschool is a good way to go.

Word. Thanks for the repost. :blush

When the weather turns really nice, I will look into the trackdays.

Being buzzed by 2ups and knee-draggers on twisties can get shady real quickly.

Thanks! :thumbup

Good to know I can get past the PTS...

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by EmoElvis


...Eldritch, I'm really writing all this for the benefit of the original poster, I'm not trying to lecture you or anything.

Ride safe everyone!!!!!

We're cool, I understand. I mean really, no one on an Italian bike has the grounds to lecture anyone on anything, sooo...



:teeth

[Robert R1]

Death grip on the bars and a locking onto an object in a panic situation will always be the main opposing forces. These things are also knows as your survival instincts. Learn to keep them under control and you'll be much more relaxed, better at receiving/translating feedback from the bike and will learn techniques faster.

[Oddjob]

Originally posted by Eldritch

Capice?

Coglione maggiore! Just kidding, that's the only Italian I know :teeth

[Monkey_Boy]

Originally posted by Sidewalk
A lot of posts that I don't feel like going through, so just my opinions.


1 - slow down
2 - track schools
3 - find new people to ride with.

Anyone who says to ride more aggressive to keep up shouldn't be helping you to ride better. It is one thing to help someone correct poor form that ends up making them faster, another to encourage you to go faster. Never go faster then you are comfortable. There are times when I may only ride at half of my capacity just because it doesn't feel right at the time. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the ride, I wouldn't enjoy the ride otherwise.

+1

Damn good advice there.

[Vane]

Originally posted by a1yola
I'm wondering if there are any techniques or practices that I, or anyone else, should do in order to gain more confidence when riding through the twisties.

I knew that I was slow, but I found out that I am REALLY slow compared to the other guys I rode with yesterday. They said I need to start leaning off the bike more and to accelerate faster through the turns. My problem is that when in the turn, I get kind of scared to accelerate hard...dont know why. Also, I tend to slow down before turns, way more than anyone else. My other problem is getting my ass off the seat. I try to do it, but can't seem to get it off when leaning to the right...this is getting frustrating.

I wont have a bike for a couple months, but I'd like to have a boosted confidence level when I get back on the road.
Any suggestions:confused


http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/training_wheels_motorcycle.jpg

:twofinger

[dvsdesigner]

Originally posted by Vane
http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/training_wheels_motorcycle.jpg

:twofinger

:laughing :laughing :laughing

do they make a pair of those that fit the SV??

:laughing :laughing

[bmer97]

Originally posted by autoredial
You can probably take 100% of the turns without getting off your seat. Most guys who do drag knee don't need to drag, they just want to. If you are going so fast that you actually need to drag, then you are going way too fast for the uncontrolled conditions of public roads. You should be scared at that speed because you have NO control if something unexpected happens.

+1:thumbup

Well said and so true! Controlled Track vs Real World. Real World is 1000x more dangerous.