Light Works Intergrated tail lights

[Cheetah]

In light of the recent undertails question, I'd like to ask the legality of the rear signal integrator on ebay and such. I believe they combine the rear signals into the OEM tail lights. Any thoughts are appreciated.

PS: glad to see the new Leo section, hopefully I don't have to "use" it a lot. :teeth

[Dougmo531]

Illegal. Here's the vehicle code section:


Modification of Vehicle Equipment

26101. No person shall sell or offer for sale for use upon or as part of the equipment of a vehicle, nor shall any person use upon a vehicle, any device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of any lighting equipment, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device meets the provisions of Section 26104. This section does not apply to a taillamp or stop lamp in use on or prior to December 1, 1935, or to lamps installed on authorized emergency vehicles.


Note: This section is not a fix-it-ticket.

[silversvs]

"For off road use only" "For race use only"

Gotta love the fine print on all that aftermarket equipment.

[silversvs]

Gotta hide this from the boys and girls at work :laughing

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/120/361/1765894-race_use.jpg

[Cheetah]

Thanks Dougmo531 for the reply. I think I saw you at a track day in Laguna. Nice bike & custom suit!

Back to the question, can I ask why it's not a fix-it ticket? I'm not so clear why some are fix-it and some aren't. Does it depend on the officer's discretion?

[Dougmo531]

Originally posted by Cheetah
Thanks Dougmo531 for the reply. I think I saw you at a track day in Laguna. Nice bike & custom suit!

Thanks :thumbup


Back to the question, can I ask why it's not a fix-it ticket? I'm not so clear why some are fix-it and some aren't. Does it depend on the officer's discretion?

Actually it's in the ready ref (a quick reference guide to the vehicle code). I believe this one is not dismissable because you deliberately modified your lights to make them illegal as opposed to having a stop light out and just not knowing.

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by Dougmo531
Illegal. Here's the vehicle code section:


Modification of Vehicle Equipment

26101. No person shall sell or offer for sale for use upon or as part of the equipment of a vehicle, nor shall any person use upon a vehicle, any device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of any lighting equipment, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device meets the provisions of Section 26104. This section does not apply to a taillamp or stop lamp in use on or prior to December 1, 1935, or to lamps installed on authorized emergency vehicles.


Note: This section is not a fix-it-ticket. ok, I understand what the law is but how do you enforce it. Does every officer know exactly what every bike looks like?

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by BigCorySBFMC707
ok, I understand what the law is but how do you enforce it. Does every officer know exactly what every bike looks like?

well since no one has answered this question, I will re send it, How does the average cop know what my rear lights are suppose to look like on my bike. BTW, mine is stock so dont come pulling me over. lol. Just want to know.

[svclee]

they probably ask and if you give in they ticket..or they dont say DOT approved..or they do know the bike..those are the only ways i can think of

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by svclee
they probably ask and if you give in they ticket..or they dont say DOT approved..or they do know the bike..those are the only ways i can think of

that sucks cuz my cousin just got his intergrated tail and it is dope as hell but I aint trying to spend money just to get a ticket. So I am chopping off the fender but keeping the lights stock for now.

[svclee]

keep everything stock...but do chop the fender =)...

staying stock and riding smart is the best way to enjoy your riding experience..

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by svclee
keep everything stock...but do chop the fender =)...

staying stock and riding smart is the best way to enjoy your riding experience..

what is funny is, last year, I was told that clear lenses were illegal. now how can that be when they are stock on my bike for 05?

[svclee]

cause they are DOT approved haha...as long as the light has a DOT it should be legal..thats just the way things go..

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by svclee
cause they are DOT approved haha...as long as the light has a DOT it should be legal..thats just the way things go..

so are you saying that if the intergrated light that my cousin modified is dot approved, it is ok

[svclee]

Well my understanding and what i read on these boards, its illegal..not sure why but it is...Im saying the lights or lens that people replace from stock, if they are DOT approved then it "should" be legal..of course not all cops think that way unfortunately..

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by svclee
Well my understanding and what i read on these boards, its illegal..not sure why but it is...Im saying the lights or lens that people replace from stock, if they are DOT approved then it "should" be legal..of course not all cops think that way unfortunately.. like you said, chop the fender, and leave the ugly ass lights on and I will go with that. His wife is a cop , so I think he aint trippin if he gets pulled over

[silversvs]

Originally posted by BigCorySBFMC707
well since no one has answered this question, I will re send it, How does the average cop know what my rear lights are suppose to look like on my bike. BTW, mine is stock so dont come pulling me over. lol. Just want to know.

The "average" cop probably would not know. But, there are many many cops who are bike enthusiasts. We read the magazines, check out bikes in person, and pay attention to the various modification crazes that are out there.

Personally, I don't think the integrated turn signals in the taillights are very safe. Your average cager doesn't normally even see a motorcycle, now you are asking that cager to be able to differentiate which way you plan to turn by deciding which half of your tiny taillight is blinking? Its a disaster waiting to happen. "Well officer, I saw his taillight blinking so I though he was turning right. I went to pass him on the left, and the next thing I know he was under my right front tire. Gee, I'm sorry."

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by silversvs
The "average" cop probably would not know. But, there are many many cops who are bike enthusiasts. We read the magazines, check out bikes in person, and pay attention to the various modification crazes that are out there.

Personally, I don't think the integrated turn signals in the taillights are very safe. Your average cager doesn't normally even see a motorcycle, now you are asking that cager to be able to differentiate which way you plan to turn by deciding which half of your tiny taillight is blinking? Its a disaster waiting to happen. "Well officer, I saw his taillight blinking so I though he was turning right. I went to pass him on the left, and the next thing I know he was under my right front tire. Gee, I'm sorry." So would you actually give someone a ticket for this? Compared to most bikes I see out there with no blinkers at all, no mirrors and No plate, I think intergrated tail lights arent a bad alternative.

[Dougmo531]

Originally posted by BigCorySBFMC707
So would you actually give someone a ticket for this? Compared to most bikes I see out there with no blinkers at all, no mirrors and No plate, I think intergrated tail lights arent a bad alternative.

When you integrate your signals you remove the stock ones from your bike. When I see you with no signals you can be stopped. If you are stopped most likely you will be cited for no turn signals and/or integrating them. As SilverSVS mentioned, cagers have a difficult time as it is seeing motorcyclists. Lets not make it tougher for them. It's much easier and quicker to write out a fix-it ticket than an accident report.

[Cheetah]

Originally posted by Dougmo531
When you integrate your signals you remove the stock ones from your bike. When I see you with no signals you can be stopped. If you are stopped most likely you will be cited for no turn signals and/or integrating them. As SilverSVS mentioned, cagers have a difficult time as it is seeing motorcyclists. Lets not make it tougher for them. It's much easier and quicker to write out a fix-it ticket than an accident report.

Not to be hypercritical about your answer but how come you stated before that this is not dismissable and not a fix-it ticket? From this answer, seem like you're saying that it is a fix-it ticket.

As this is a legality question, I think anyone reading this will want to be clear about the consequence of installing such devices.

[deaconblues]

the reason the stock 'clear-lens' lights are legal is because the manufacturer had them tested to comply with DOT requirements. Plus, I'm sure the bike has a red REFLECTOR on that big ugly ducktail fender that suppliments the lack of a big honkin' (reflective) red lens assembly on the back of the bike.

Guess what happens if you don't find a place to remount that reflector when you chop the fender off?

YOU GET A TICKET!! Yay whee skip and so forth....

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by deaconblues
the reason the stock 'clear-lens' lights are legal is because the manufacturer had them tested to comply with DOT requirements. Plus, I'm sure the bike has a red REFLECTOR on that big ugly ducktail fender that suppliments the lack of a big honkin' (reflective) red lens assembly on the back of the bike.

Guess what happens if you don't find a place to remount that reflector when you chop the fender off?

YOU GET A TICKET!! Yay whee skip and so forth....

please tell me that cops arent out there counting reflectors on bikes. That is sad as hell if that is the case. Btw I aint chopping off the reflector anyway. just the shovel that goes below the license plate. see below

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/120/361/1812417-052705_005.jpg

[deaconblues]

Originally posted by BigCorySBFMC707
please tell me that cops arent out there counting reflectors on bikes. That is sad as hell if that is the case. Btw I aint chopping off the reflector anyway. just the shoval that goes below the license plate. And no I dont have a big ugly reflector on the fender, see below

No worries, your taillight assembly has reflectors built in. Plus it looks like you have one above the plate, not below. Keep that and you'll be fine.

Oh yah, Dougmo himself pointed out the veh. code regarding the reflector requirements... so, if you don't have one, expect to get nailed eventually.

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by deaconblues
No worries, your taillight assembly has reflectors built in. Plus it looks like you have one above the plate, not below. Keep that and you'll be fine.

Oh yah, Dougmo himself pointed out the veh. code regarding the reflector requirements... so, if you don't have one, expect to get nailed eventually.

although I dont like a lot of the nit picky rules of bikes , I can at least see the reason for some of them. But at some point, it is going way too far, if a person cant see my bike even though it is a shiny pearl paint job with a bright tail light, they sure aint gonna see my little ass reflector. Just one mans opinion.

[Red6Rdr]

http://img65.exs.cx/img65/3751/svrear2lz.jpg


Ok, this is my current undertail, I got it with the bike. I'm not into modding, thats why the rest is stock, but I think its really clean and looks great. Plus, changing it would require me to buy/get a stock one from someone else. One question, with that current undertail, would DMV let it pass or not? (49 state bike).

[nedro]

This is what's on my bike and I continually ask people if they have any problem seeing which way the signals are flashing. Everyone has told me they are very easy to disern which dirrection I'm signaling and from quite a distance.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/120/361/1812819-dscf0024_undertray_2.jpg

[Dougmo531]

Originally posted by Cheetah
Not to be hypercritical about your answer but how come you stated before that this is not dismissable and not a fix-it ticket? From this answer, seem like you're saying that it is a fix-it ticket.

As this is a legality question, I think anyone reading this will want to be clear about the consequence of installing such devices.

It's up to the officer. If they thinks it's an "Immediate Safety Hazard" then they can check to "No" box for dismissable. Plus, it was deliberately modified to be illegal. It's not like a bulb was burned out and you didn't know about it.

[Dougmo531]

Originally posted by BigCorySBFMC707
although I dont like a lot of the nit picky rules of bikes , I can at least see the reason for some of them. But at some point, it is going way too far, if a person cant see my bike even though it is a shiny pearl paint job with a bright tail light, they sure aint gonna see my little ass reflector. Just one mans opinion.

The reason reflectors are required is in case your vehicle becomes disabled during darkness, and/or is block the roadway, other vehicles will at least have a chance of avoiding yours. With no reflector there is zero chance.

[MyBlade]

Sir, You are correct about the legality of the integrated taillamp/ signal assemblies.
I was cited by CHP for such taillamps and Greggs eggs front signals. Not legal either. But, I was informed by the issuing Officer Rodriguez that since I purchased my M/C used that I would have to purchase & install the stock OEM, both rear & front signal lamp sets. When I received the courtesy notice it indicated it was an infraction as you said and "not a fix it" ticket. But I went ahead and scheduled a court arraignment. At which time the Commissioner dismissed the ticket after verifying that the violation was signed of by a Law Enforcement Officer. But I had to pay a $10.00 court fee. This court hearing occured last week in Santa Clara County. Just my two cent to the thread.:teeth
Originally posted by Dougmo531
Illegal. Here's the vehicle code section:

Modification of Vehicle Equipment

VC 26101. No person shall sell or offer for sale for use upon or as part of the equipment of a vehicle, nor shall any person use upon a vehicle, any device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of any lighting equipment, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device meets the provisions of Section 26104. This section does not apply to a taillamp or stop lamp in use on or prior to December 1, 1935, or to lamps installed on authorized emergency vehicles.


Note: This section is not a fix-it-ticket.

[StuntrHuntr]

Originally posted by BigCorySBFMC707
His wife is a cop, so I think he aint trippin if he gets pulled over.If he'll be trippin' over a ticket, then he'll be trippin' if I pull him over. I don't give a shit who his wife is. Press hard, three copies. He gets treated the same as the poor suckers that married waitresses.

[BigCorySBFMC707]

Originally posted by StuntrHuntr
If he'll be trippin' over a ticket, then he'll be trippin' if I pull him over. I don't give a shit who his wife is. Press hard, three copies. He gets treated the same as the poor suckers that married waitresses. I will make sure that he knows where you are lurking at all times, plus since he aint a stunter, you probably wont even notice him. Since it is the season. Of course I am joking here, lol And why you hating on waitresses?

[sugarmonkey]

Now I know this topic has been beaten to death. I've done the search and read up on the topic but I'm still a little unclear as to the legality of the Light Works intergrated tail light mentioned in this thread:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147203&perpage=15&highlight=signal&pagenumber=2

No LEO ever responded as to whether or not this light kit is legal.

I checked out the website and they say that they are DOT certifed. Does this mean as long as I show an officer that they are DOT approved that I will not get a ticket, or are these still considered illegal.

I know that even though they may be legal I still run the chance of getting pulled over since they look like all the other illegal kits out there.

-J

[JPM]

Requirements for turn signals. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd12c2a5.htm

While it appears these meet the requirements and are DOT approved, they also have to meet the California standard.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40151.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26101.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26101.htm

As long as they meet the visibility and color requirements you probably won't have a problem. But if you get stopped and cited, you will have to have the proper certifying documentation saying they are legal in California.

[Webdev511]

No, those are not DOT certified "Turn signals". The taillight lens is DOT certfied, but the signals themselves don't come anywhere NEAR being DOT certified.

All that's really left to as is "How many fix it tickets can I get for the same infraction before they impound my ride?"

[motorman4life]

This has been covered. Threads merged. :teeth

[Webdev511]

Whoops...my bad.

Honestly, I think people would be surprised at just how many infractions an under tail/turn signal integrator entails. Here are the ones I can think of...

- Turn Signals no longer DOT
- No rear, and quite likely no rear/side reflectors
- no license plate illumination
- license plate incorrectly displayed, or not displayed at all.

Since those are all deliberate mods, what kind of ticket/fine would that carry?

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by Webdev511
Since those are all deliberate mods, what kind of ticket/fine would that carry?
It depends on how the officer cites it, the jurisdiction it is in and possible prior convictions. It would likely be cited as a simple fix-it, but it could be cited as not-correctable and/or as a straight-up mover (point violation) for 24002(a) or (b) CVC, depending upon the officer's mood, training and opinion as to how intentional, ongoing and/or unsafe it is.

Some officers (like StuntrHuntr) pretty much slam most everyone and some (like Brash) usually cut 99% of the riders they stop some slack depending, of course, upon how they do on the attitude test. I'm probably in the middle. But, no matter how "nice" you are, if you lie to me, you will get the StuntrHuntr treatment from me. :mad

If you are honest and cool headed, I can be cool too,especially to riders. We are all out here on 2-wheels dealing with the same shit/hazards and brainless cagers, driving by GPS, watching DVDs and sipping their mochas in their warm little airbag-laden, steel-cocoons. ;)

PS. No offense, I hate to name-drop, but I just call 'em like I see 'em! :teeth YMMV :p