Legality of this device in CA?

[}Dragon{]

PDLP is being sold to civilians... it is a lower power version of the LE/Military model.

http://www.xadsgear.com/product_info.php?products_id=28

Is this legal in CA? (it claims to be 'eye-safe')

I'm wondering if any LEOs here have any experience with the device- I've seen videos of it used by "Cell Extraction Teams" in prisons to disorient problem children.

[dogcatfud]

What do you plan on using it for?

[Lester Green]

hmm, meth heads...very interesting.

[jake28]

That is rather worrying.
j

[JPM]

I know of no section that makes it illegal to own, but using it in certain situations would make it illegal.

[gar1013]

Dude, that'd make meetings a lot more entertaining.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by gar1013
Dude, that'd make meetings a lot more entertaining.

Like the meetings down the street from your place? :p

[Skippy]

I believe it is a felony to "shine a laser upon a person" in the state of California.
3 or 4 years ago three people were killed on I-80 (I believe) when a kid riding in a car hit the driver of another car in the eyes.
The temorary blindness caused the driver to crash. As I said three people died in that accident.

All lasers will cause some permant eye damage. You just might not notice it as threre are billions of rods and cones on the retna. Some will get destroyed no matter what.

If you were to illuminate an unintended target (like a driver) and cause an injury or accidental death you could be charged with reckless endangerment or manslaughter.

The laser you listed was rated at 5 milliwatts. This is the federal threshold for having to have a permit or not. anything over 5 MW you would need a variance issued by the FDA to use it in public. 5 MW is relatively low power and the permant damage it causes is minor but permant. The farther away from the laser source the lower the power due to beam divergence.

I treat all my lasers like I treat my guns.
I make sure that what I am aming at is safe before I pull the trigger. Bullets travel a long distance and so do lasers.

How do I know? I hold a federal laser variance and I do professional laser shows.
Laser saftey is not to be taken lightly.
You can check out my website and see 40 watt lasers in action @ www.uv99.com.
Skipp

BTW I do have permant laser damage in my eyes.

[bmb408]

Originally posted by Skippy


BTW I do have permant laser damage in my eyes.

What are the symptoms?


If you don't mind sharing...

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by bmb408
What are the symptoms?


If you don't mind sharing...

Ask this guy:

http://webhollis.com/albums/Funny-Forum/Ray_Can_t_See_Shit.jpg

[Madhazard]

Originally posted by bmb408
What are the symptoms?


If you don't mind sharing...

I got it too. When they first came out i shined the laser in my eyes a lot to see the beam. My symptoms were, basicaly my sight got worse than it was. I wear glasses 75 percent of the time now beause i cant see things that are far away as good as i used to. I have to squint my eyes to be able to read certain things that are a distance away from me.

heres a test. If you take a piece of paper, and puncture it with the tip of a pen to make a tiny tiny hole, hold it up to one of your eyes. If when you look through the hole, you see clearer than when the piece of paper is away from your eye, they are damaged, or not 20/20.

[DaveToo]

.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/529/2681796-remain.jpg

[Madhazard]

It should say: this is NOT the laser used for Lasik eye surgery

:(

[Skippy]

When you expose your eyes to a laser it burns your retina. If the laser is strong enough you will have a headache for three days or so. Your eyes will also feel like they have sand in them. It itches real badly.

I whacked myself ACCIDENTLY with a 20 watt argon laser. The exposure time was measured in milliseconds (the time it takes your eyelid to close) but the damage was done. I now have what looks like a tadpole (baby frog) in my left eye. It looks like a round spot with a tail. The spot was caused by the initial exposure and the tail was caused by me blinking and moving my head away.
The accident happened like this... I was tuning and cleaning a big 20 watt argon laser. By buddy was present so we decided to grab a mirror and steer the beam around the shop. The laser was at waist level and I was standing next to it. When I introduced the mirror into the beam path I had the angle wrong and it shot straight up into my eye. I immediately reacted and closed my eye and pulled away but it was way too late the damage was done. Luckily I have a small hole in my eye and still have 20/20 vision.

In California I believe it is a felony to "shine a laser upon a person". You would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. If you shine it on the cops it would be assaulting an officer AND assault with a deadly weapon. Your ass would be grass.

Eye safe lasers are complete bullshit. My partner is an optical engineer. He worked for VISIX the company who brought you the miracle eye cure LASIK.
For three years he received a daily fresh supply of cow’s eyes that he subjected to varying degrees of laser light. He tested all lasers on the eyeballs in red, green, blue, ultra violet and infrared. In every case there was permanent physical damage. In the case of LASIK they use an ultra short, ultra fast and ultra high power UV laser to ABLATE (blast away, explosive decomposition) the upper layer of the cornea. In doing so they reshape the cornea to reduce or eliminate altogether imperfections that cause distortion. Laser eye damage of the sort caused by this device is cumulative. Which means a few exposures will not be noticed much like the damage caused by looking at the sun.
However repeated exposures (like what our friend above did to himself) will cause a graying of your vision. Over time you will go blind. A good analogy is say you have a large sheet of bubble wrap, pop a few bubbles and you still have excellent package protection. Pop most or all the bubbles and you get zero or close to it protection.


To see how LASIK works see here. http://www.mariettaeye.com/html/how_does_lasik_work_.html

When they do it, it makes a real weird crackling sound. The reason why it does not blind you is the UV wave length will not fully penetrate the cornea. Clear polycarbonate will also block 99% of UV rays. This is why those cheap gas station sunglasses are as good as a $500.00 pair of Ray Bans.

In Ray's own words "any laser in your eye is a BAD deal".
Which brings me to the mentioned product the PDLP (personal defense laser pen). This product works by using a broad beam rapid pulse exposure. The broad beam is to ensure 100% exposure by covering both eyes. The pulsing causes severe disorientation and temporary blindness. You will only see the color of the laser be it red or green your entire field of vision will turn the color of the laser. In the case of a red laser you will see red and only red. You will be visually immersed in red as in your whole world turns red. The permanent eye damage would probably be minimal and unnoticeable. You will be highly uncomfortable and it will feel like you are getting hit in the back of the eye.

If you are walking, riding or operating a vehicle the results could be catastrophic. I would only use this in a life or death situation where you don't really feel like killing someone. You know just poke their eye out a little that's all.

This is definitely a use at the risk of imprisonment item.

If you have any questions pertaining to lasers feel free to contact me. I can be sent a private message here or you can e-mail me @ skipp@uv99.com

I hope this helps.
Skipp

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Skippy
In California I believe it is a felony to "shine a laser upon a person". You would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. If you shine it on the cops it would be assaulting an officer AND assault with a deadly weapon. Your ass would be grass.

Eye safe lasers are complete bullshit.

Skip- the PDLP is a pulsed low power laser.

You got hit with a 20 watt? :wtf (I'm not trying to be a dick, but no protective eyewear?)

BTW: It's not a felony in CA to point a laser at non-LEO:

417.25. (a) Every person who, except in self-defense, aims or
points a laser scope, as defined in subdivision (b), or a laser
pointer, as defined in subdivision (c), at another person in a
threatening manner with the specific intent to cause a reasonable
person fear of bodily harm is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail for up to 30 days. For purposes of
this section, the laser scope need not be attached to a firearm.

I think I found the answer above^^^

417.26 covers LEOs but it's also a M.


I'd still like any feedback from LEOs or Military that have used these...

:)

[Skippy]

This should answer your question.
it can be found here http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/99-00/bill/asm/ab_0251-0300/ab_293_cfa_19990405_141402_asm_comm.html


AB 293
Page 1

Date of Hearing: April 6, 1999
Chief Counsel: Harry M. Dorfman

ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY
Mike Honda, Chair

AB 293 (Wesson) - As Amended: April 5, 1999

SUMMARY : Makes it a misdemeanor to sell a laser pointer to a
minor, aim a laser pointer at specified uniformed persons (e.g.,
a uniformed police officer), or direct the beam into another
person's eyes, an animal's eyes, or into a moving vehicle.
Specifically, this bill :

1)Prohibits selling a laser pointer to a person under age 18,
unless that minor is accompanied by a parent, guardian, or
other person 18 years of age or older.

2)Prohibits a person under 18 years of age from possessing a
laser pointer, unless accompanied by a parent, guardian, or
other person 18 years of age or older, or except as necessary
for a valid instructional or school-related purpose on school
premises.

3)Provides that no person possess a laser pointer on any school
premises unless such possession is for a valid instructional
or other school-related purpose, including employment.

4)Defines laser pointer as "any hand held laser beam device or
demonstration product that emits light amplified by the
stimulated emission of radiation that is visible to the human
eye."

5)Prohibits aiming or directing a laser pointer, for the purpose
of intimidating, harassing, or distracting, at the following
people:

a) A uniformed police officer;

b) A uniformed security guard;

c) A uniformed school safety officer;

d) A uniformed traffic enforcement officer;









AB 293
Page 2

e) A uniformed member of a paid or volunteer fire
department;

f) A uniformed emergency medical technician;

g) A uniformed mobile intensive care paramedic, or other
uniformed city, state, or federal peace officer,
investigator or emergency service worker; and,

h) The marked service vehicle used by any of the above
individuals.

6)Prohibits any person from directing the beam from a laser
pointer directly or indirectly into another person's eyes, an
animal's eyes, or into a moving vehicle with the intent to
harass or annoy the person, animal, or occupants of the moving
vehicle.

7)A first violation of #1, #2 or #3 above is punishable by a $50
fine or four hours of community service. A second or
subsequent violation is punishable by a $100 fine or eight
hours of community service.

8)A first violation of #2 or #3 above is an infraction, and a
second or subsequent violation of #2 or #3 above is a
misdemeanor, punishable by up to six months in jail, a $1,000
fine, or both.

EXISTING LAW:

1)Provides that any person who "willfully and maliciously
discharges a laser at an aircraft, whether in motion or in
flight, while occupied, is guilty of? a misdemeanor?or a
felony." (Penal Code Section 247.5.)

2)Defines "laser" to be "a device that utilizes the natural
oscillations of atoms or molecules between energy levels for
generating coherent electromagnetic radiation in the
ultraviolet, visible, or infrared region of the spectrum, and
when discharged exceeds one milliwatt continuous wave."
(Penal Code Section 247.5.)

3)Makes it a misdemeanor to shine a light or other bright device
at an aircraft with the intent to interfere with the aircraft.
(Penal Code Section 248.)








AB 293
Page 3


4)Makes it a misdemeanor to draw or exhibit a laser scope that
projects a colored target on a person, with the specific
intent to cause a reasonable person apprehension of fear of
bodily harm. (Penal Code Section 417.25.)

5)Every person who has charge or custody of an animal, as an
owner or otherwise, and who subjects the animal to needless
suffering or inflicts unnecessary cruelty upon the animal, or
in any manner abuses the animal, is guilty of an alternate
misdemeanor/felony. A misdemeanor violation is punishable by
up to six months in jail, or a $20,000 fine, or both; a felony
violation is punishable by 16 months, 2 or 3 years in prison,
a $20,000 fine, or both. (Penal Code Section 597(b).)

FISCAL EFFECT : Unknown

COMMENTS :

1)Author's Statement. According to the author, "Current law
does not adequately address the new health and public safety
concerns created by the growing number of cheap laser pointers
being purchased by minors.

"Once primarily used as high-priced lecture aids in board
rooms and at conferences, laser pointers have become
inexpensive enough that nearly anybody can afford them. At
between $5 to $20 per piece, cheap laser pointers are
increasingly being purchased by minors to annoy and distract
people in a game called "spotting." While "spotting" at
sporting events, film shoots, and movie theaters appears to be
nothing more than a humorous nuisance, there are potentially
more serious consequences. For example, laser pointers can
cause temporary blindness, creating particularly dangerous
situations for individuals driving motor vehicles or operating
heavy machinery. In addition, the beam of light emitted from
a laser pointer is essentially the same as the beam emitted by
a firearm's laser sighting.

"Current law prohibits aiming a laser at an aircraft, in
motion or in flight. Current law also prohibits aiming a
firearm's laser scope at another person in a threatening
manner. However, these two laws do not adequately address the
growing health and public safety concerns associated with
cheap laser pointers and their potential misuse. AB 293 will








AB 293
Page 4

address these concerns by limiting minors' access to laser
pointers and restricting their use in hazardous manners, while
allowing them to be used for the original purpose for which
they are designed."

2)Is "Laser Pointer" as Defined Consistent with the Definition
of "Laser Pointer" in AB 221 (Wildman) and the Definition of
"Laser" in Penal Code Section 247.5? Consistent definitions
avoid interpretation issues when the courts search for
statutory ambiguities during litigation. "Laser pointer" as
defined appears to be a sub-set of "Laser" as defined in Penal
Code Section 247.5. However, the definition in this bill
differs from the definition used in AB 221 ("any hand held
laser beam device or demonstration laser product that emits a
single point of light amplified by the stimulated emission of
radiation that is visible to the human eye"), heard by this
Committee on March 23, 1999. These definitions should be
harmonized by adding "a single point of" to the definition of
"laser pointer" in this bill.

3)Does the Definition of "Laser Pointer" Need to Exclude
"Entertainment Lasers" Which May Not Pose Any of the Risks
Addressed by the Bill? Megapower Technologies, based out of
Carlsbad, has pointed out that "entertainment lasers" are now
on the market which project a pattern rather than a point.
Therefore, these products cannot be mistaken for a laser
sight, but this bill's broad language may include such
innocuous entertainment products in its prohibitions.
Further, the bill could define that the laser pointer must
project the beam of light in a point no larger than a
specified diameter rather than a pattern or picture. This
change would protect legitimate interests of entertainment
laser manufacturers. The author may wish to consider such
amendments.

4)18-Year-Olds Can Be Trusted to Monitor 17-Year-Olds? This
bill allows a youth under age 18 to buy or possess a laser
pointer if accompanied by a parent, guardian, or person age 18
or older. Experience teaches that many 18-year-olds are not
much more mature than their 17-year-old associates. A
mischievous or malicious 17-year-old will not get much
supervision from his 18-year-old colleague. Then again,
determined youths will get their hands on laser pointers
somehow, but the preventive aim of the bill is advanced if
parents or guardians are the only ones whose supervision








AB 293
Page 5

enables a minor to buy or possess a laser pointer.

5)The Protection Given to Animals May be Necessary. This bill
forbids directing the beam from a laser pointer into an
animal's eyes with the intent to harass or annoy the animal.
No material has been presented to demonstrate that animals
have been made to suffer in this fashion routinely.
Nevertheless, some children or adults will shine lights and
beams in the eyes of dogs, cats or other pets; seeing eye
dogs; police dogs; racehorses; zoo animals; circus animals; or
theme park animals. If the offender owns or has custody of
the animal and torments the animal with a laser, Penal Code
Section 597(b) could apply to such conduct. A person who
torments an animal belonging to another person is not covered
by Penal Code Section 597(b). This bill includes the case
where a stranger shines a laser pointer into the eyes of an
owner's dog or cat with the intent to annoy or harass.

6)Related Legislation. AB 221 makes it a misdemeanor to project
a colored target on a person in a threatening manner with
specific intent to cause a reasonable person apprehension or
fear of bodily harm, punishable up to 30 days in jail.

7)Prior Legislation. AB 2101 (Bowler), Chapter 218, Statutes of
1998, made it illegal to shine "a light or other bright
device" at an aircraft, with the intent to interfere, if the
light is of an intensity capable of interfering with the
aircraft. Prior to AB 2101, law only included helicopters
rather than all aircraft.

REGISTERED SUPPORT / OPPOSITION :

Support

California Association of Highway Patrolman
California Organization of Police and Sheriffs
Fresno Unified School District
Los Angeles Unified School District
Peace Officers Research Association of California
Sacramento City Unified School District
San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department
San Francisco Unified School District

Opposition









AB 293
Page 6

California Alliance for Consumer Protection
California Attorneys for Criminal Justice
California Public Defenders Association
Region 8 States Council of the United Food and Commercial
Workers

Analysis Prepared by : Harry Dorfman / PUB. S. / (916) 319-3744

[}Dragon{]

OK- what's the NRS say for NV? :laughing

[Skippy]

Originally posted by }Dragon{
Skip- the PDLP is a pulsed low power laser.

You got hit with a 20 watt? :wtf (I'm not trying to be a dick, but no protective eyewear?) :)

There is a big problem with laser safety glasses.. You can not see the beam and you end up burning holes in your clothes and yourself. Big problem. I do wear eyewear with my pulsed 40 watt YAG laser. It is so fucking bright you can see the beam with the glasses on.

This brings me to my next point... pulsed lasers are measured in AVREAGE power. My 40 watt pused laser averages 40 watts but the peak power (the power of each pulse) is 8KW(8,000 watts) at a 200 nanosecond pulse. This aveaages out to 40 watts. This beam is visiable for well over 30 miles.

With pulsed lasers it is the peak power that is most damaging. There is a shock wave riding on the front of the pulse. So it not only burns but also tears the eye. Neat!

I stand corrected on the felony.

I just follow the rule no lasers on people. In my bussiness if you have an accidental exposure it could cost me millons or my freedom.

Skipp

[Skippy]

Don't know what it says. I just follow my own rule, " do not expose people".
Skipp

[gimpystyle]

There is no such thing as an eye-safe laser, as someone already mentioned.

One of the things I did in one of my engineering classes at Cal was to calculuate the intensity of a laser beam on the retina of the eye. You see, the issue is not the power of the laser, though that does obviously have an effect...

Imagine this: your entire field of vision is focused on a tiny tiny patch of cells in the back of your eye on the retina. The lens of your eye is exactly that, a lens- it focuses larger fields of light into smaller fields. Think of it as a magnifying glass. The problem with looking at lasers is that the entire power output of the laser is contained within a very small beam- this very small beam is focused into a microscopic beam on your retina. So even though the power delivery isn't high, the power delivered per area is very, very significant.

Looking at a mild laser beam can be up to 100 times as intense as staring at the sun...no damage? I think not.

~J

[Skippy]

Here is the Nevada statute as requested earlier.
It can be found here. http://www.leg.state.nv.us/71st/bills/AB/AB24.html

Skipp
:cool :cool :cool :cool




AN ACT relating to crimes; prohibiting a person from directing light emitted from a laser pointer into or through certain places and at certain persons under certain circumstances; providing penalties; and providing other matters properly relating thereto.



THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEVADA, REPRESENTED IN

SENATE AND ASSEMBLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:



1-1 Section 1. Chapter 202 of NRS is hereby amended by adding thereto

1-2 the provisions set forth as sections 2, 3 and 4 of this act.

1-3 Sec. 2. As used in this section and sections 3 and 4 of this act, unless

1-4 the context otherwise requires, “laser pointer” means a device that emits

1-5 light amplified by the stimulated emission of radiation that is visible to

1-6 the human eye. The term includes, without limitation, a laser scope

1-7 intended for use with a firearm.

1-8 Sec. 3. 1. A person shall not knowingly direct light emitted from a

1-9 laser pointer into or through a public place or at another person in a

1-10 manner that would cause a reasonable person apprehension or fear of

1-11 bodily harm, unless the person does so for a valid and lawful purpose.

1-12 2. A person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a

1-13 misdemeanor.

1-14 Sec. 4. 1. A person shall not knowingly direct light emitted from a

1-15 laser pointer at a uniformed peace officer, security guard, traffic officer,

1-16 firefighter, emergency medical attendant or ambulance driver or

1-17 attendant.

2-1 2. A person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a

2-2 gross misdemeanor.

2-3 3. As used in this section:

2-4 (a) “Emergency medical attendant” has the meaning ascribed to it in

2-5 NRS 41.139.

2-6 (b) “Security guard” has the meaning ascribed to it in NRS 648.016.

2-7 Sec. 5. The amendatory provisions of this act do not apply to offenses

2-8 committed before October 1, 2001.

[Skippy]

Here is the 20 watt laser I got hit with burning a Nike shoe into plywood.
Skipp

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/529/2681872-dsc02510.jpg

[Owensdad]

A few years ago some jackass shined a red laser pointer in my rearview mirror while I was in my cage on 35 near the olympic club.

Initially, I thought it was the sold red of a police car so I pulled over. I eventually realized it wasn't and went barrelling after the guy. I don't know what I was planning to do but it really pissed me off something awful.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Owensdad
A few years ago some jackass shined a red laser pointer in my rearview mirror while I was in my cage on 35 near the olympic club.

Initially, I thought it was the sold red of a police car so I pulled over. I eventually realized it wasn't and went barrelling after the guy. I don't know what I was planning to do but it really pissed me off something awful.

I saw someone point a red one at a police car one night :|

Long story short, soccer mommy and her kids were taken down at gun point, 12 year old in the back had the laser.

[JPM]

Originally posted by }Dragon{
I saw someone point a red one at a police car one night :|


If some idiot points a laser at me I feel obliged to point mine back at him.. Of course mine is attached to the barrel of my gun!

And I did not look over ALL those sections posted (I know, lazy) but there are also federal regulations over pointing lasers at aircraft which are the federal version of a felony and also can be considered a terrorist act.