never thought it would happen to me (both wrists broken)

[stan23]

so today, i installed my new pilot powers and decided to take its maiden voyage. left my house, rode about a quarter mile to a turn... took it extremey careful (about 20mph) immediately rear slid out and a split second later, it regained traction and bucked me off... ilanded superman style and also hit my head on the ground.

damage?

both wrists broken, and a huge rash on my left leg. the next two months are gonna suck....

any tips to make life easier?

[stan23]

i had on a textile jacket, held gloves, sidi boots and my arai lid. i was wearing jeans..

[K-dog]

You still type good. :teeth

Tips to make life easier? I'm out, sorry. Maybe get some leather pants for next time. Hell, even chaps....

[shraz]

tip: ride 100 mile of freeway lol

take care

[Gragorin]

For me when I have new tires, I ride like I'm on ice for the first 100 miles. After that I let 'er rip.

Anywho, sorry to hear about the superman impression. Just remember, 'Chicks dig scars!'. :p

Seriously though, good to hear that you are in one piece. The bike can be fixed easily enough, your a little bit harder..

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by stan23

any tips to make life easier?

Lay off the fapping to myspace if you want the wrists to heal up. :twofinger



















:laughing

Are you able to uhhhh wipe? (IIRC Valgar could give you some input on this subject)


Sorry to hear dude- heal up quick!

[geo]

Oh, shit, Stan. Sorry to hear it.

How bad's the damage to the Duc? Are you going to have to take off work (you type for a living, right?)

Heal quickly.

[jailnurse]

Heal up soon..Wrist fractures can suck at healing if they are not cared for in the prescribed way..Especially the scaphoid (snuff-box) bone..

[bmer97]

Update 9/8/06
There was a passionate rejection to my post "An attorney consultation may be advisable, and helpful to the riding community." Knowing your legal rights and responsibilities is always a good idea. Legal consultation does not automatically produce "litigation", or "class action product liability lawsuits". It may result in sharing of financial responsibilty for actual damages. In this particular thread it appears that the new rear tire was grossly overinflated, possibly contributing to this serious injury. Legal consultation may illuminate who should pay for the actual damages to the rider.

Most attorneys offer a 'free 1/2 hour initial consultation'. There really is nothing to lose, and at the least, it will be illuminating. It may be the rider is 100% responsible for this accident. I don't know. Neither do the various posters outraged with the idea of legal consultation.

No I am not an attorney, just a fellow rider and health care provider.



Let's see. I (the manufacturer and dealer) sell a product that is known to unsafe, that causes injury or death. I know how to make the product safer but don't.

An analogy: I buy new brakes for my car. The dealer/service manager tells me to "go easy" for the first 100 miles or so until the brakes wear in; I leave, come to a stop sign, engage my non-functional brakes, and the car fails to stop. Death and injury result. This is unacceptable.

Simple preparation of the motorcycle tires would have prevented this accident and countless others. There are easy techniques for the dealer to remove the mold release compound from the new tires before the customer gets on the highway.

A study (magazine article would do) examining the friction coefficients and braking and swerving distances for new versus seasoned tires would be interesting. I would prefer this type of article over "will the new Hayabusa really have 200+ hp????" and similar articles.

Wrist fractures are complex for several reasons. One concern is the precarious blood supply to the bones, with the possibility of necrosis. Be sure to get the best possible care possible, and comply with the medical program, including rehab. from hand specialists.

http://www.emedicine.com/RADIO/topic747.htm

What a shame. An attorney consultation may be advisable, and helpful to the riding community.

Good luck.

[weak_link]

Crap Stan, sorry to hear that man.

Being a motojunkie- what kind of shape is the bike in?

[Rick T.]

Sorry to hear about the injury... Lay off BARF for a while - or keep typing with your toes. Your wrists will need healing.

Good time to catch up on some racing videos (or porn)...

Heal up.

[CruisingRam]

Damn sorry to hear that bro.

Masterbation will be a bitch. Gawd- you are going to be one angry dude!

[TerryNugwin]

i hope it wasnt the duc that u crashed on

[Ratters]

Ouch, sorry Stan. Heal up quick. Only advice is to follow what the doctors say. I'm bad at that and always cause myself extra grief by pushing things too early.

[budbandit]

Damn, that is about maximum suck. Hang in there! Hopefully others will be a bit more careful on new tires after reading about this.

[fubar929]

Originally posted by bmer97
Simple preparation of the motorcycle tires would have prevented this accident and countless others. There are easy techniques for the dealer to remove the patina from the new tires before the customer gets on the highway.

Tell me: what are tire manufacturers or dealers going to do that will prevent you from crashing because you've leaned over too far on cold tires? My guess is that's what caused the crash here, not the mythical "mold release" that old wives are always carping about...

[Stormdragon]

Sorry to hear it. I broke a couple of metacarpals once, and that was bad enough for me. Remember to keep your hands at or above the level of your heart for a couple of days. Otherwise the throbbing starts.

[lizard]

For the love of GODDDD, I hope you weren't riding the Duc :cry





(is it tacky for me to disregard the health of your wrists and be more concerned about the welfare of the much beloved Ducati?)

[Sane_Man]

Shit, Stan!!

I give my tires 200 miles and use the least amount of lean angle possible.

Doesn't sound like you even let the tires warm up before tipping it in. Has nothing to do with speed, you rolled the tire onto virgin, slick tire, and down she went.


P.S. Hire a fluffer to get you through the Hard times. :laughing


Heal up. :thumbup

[FrigginChi]

It's nice to have friends...

[yelow748]

tips on new tires .... wash with warm soap and water ( dawn )
@ least twice to remove the release agent , ride like there's an ice storm out side ....
Vitamins and liquids , keep the wrists elevated .
Get well fast

[NakayamaHiro]

Damn that suck's real bad, very sorry to hear. I hope this injury doesn't conflict with work very badly. Heal up quick, and I'm sure that if you needed help with something, you can PM anyone of us, right guys?

[bmer97]

http://experts.about.com/q/Motorcycle-Safety-Driveability-790/new-tires.htm

"The precautions are pretty simple--tires are "slippery" for the first 80 miles or so. You'll want to "heat cycle" them: warm them up (by riding on them for at least 20 minutes) and let them cool down (at least two hours) three or four times before they're properly broken in. You could do this all in a day, or you could do it over the period of a week or month, doesn't matter.

At first, the first 10 miles or so, they'll be like ice. Avoid dramatic accelleration, braking, and lean angles. Once they're warmed up, gradually lean a little farther and farther over, scrubbing in the sides of the tires a little at a time. You can even take a hard file and scrub that factory-fresh surface off them to help the process along.

After four heat cycles and 80-100 miles, they'll be broken in and ready for whatever you dish out.

Pat"

Another technique:
Use the old tire to skuff the slippery finish off of spinning new tire.

http://www.dansmc.com/tires1.htm
"New tires have a coating on them. This is a mold release coating. It let's the tire pop out of the tire mold easily. It also makes the tire slippery for a while, till it wears off. This process takes, maybe, 50 to 100 miles. Take things easy till the mold release is worn off. Using Goo Gone cleaner on new tires seems to help too."

http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq/chickenstrips.html
"When you buy new tires, the best thing to do is to find an empty parking lot and do some lazy figure-eights. Make your turns progressively faster and with greater lean angles. The idea is to scrub off that goo under controlled circumstances. You never want to suddenly turn so hard that you're riding entirely on an area of the tires that hasn't been scrubbed off yet."

[///M3lissa]

Wow Stan - sorry to hear. Life is gonna suck for a while.

There is a product that might help with keyboard/mousing called Dragon Naturally Speaking ... its not a great product, but it might help (you can web browse with it).

Take it easy and heal quick :)

[fubar929]

:laughing :laughing :laughing

That's some funny shit, man! Are you really suggesting that the dealership should put 80-100 miles and four heat cycles into your tires after they're mounted?

The problem with all of links is that they're based on tire construction techniques that were en vogue 20 years ago. HINT: just because some idiot has posted it on the Internet doesn't mean it's true. Dunlop, for example, doesn't use a release agent on any of their high-performance tires these days. Or at least that's what the guys at Sport Tire Services seem to think...

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by fubar929
HINT: just because some idiot has posted it on the Internet doesn't mean it's true.

O rly?http://www.myhattiesburg.com/forums/images/smilies/owl.gif


:laughing

[elbacalao]

Sorry to hear about the crash. Hope you heal up fast.

[fawndog]

Heal quick Stan, hope you have someone to take care of you and your moto.

[uhmeebuh]

I agreed to meet Stan at Starbucks by his house and head over to a BBQ. I call and tell him I just grabbed a non-fat-decaf- venti-iced-caramel-frappuchino-light with light whip (of course) and that he should head on over.

Well, 30 minutes go by and I call but it goes straight to VM. I assume he's on his way. 15 more minutes go by and I call again. "Dude! Where are you?!?"

Chi answers - "Stan went down. Come by..."

Sorry dude - I shoulda driven this time...

We knew he was (relatively) OK when he said about his ripped jeans, "Damn, these were expensive!" and the cute chick in Radiology wasn't cute enough to get a MySpace URL....

Yes, Lizard, it was the Duc. Apparently not too much damage but I showed up after the bike was taken away.

Stan handled the damaged bike and broken wrists pretty well, all things considered.

Props to Chi and Brian and the roommate with the truck for helping out! :thumbup

[PorradaVFR]

Sorry about your wrists...that sounds like a major PITA to say the least. Whoa.

As for the let's sue attitude, give it a rest. It's called personal responsibility. The tires are not flawed, not inherently risky in an unexpected way. It's a bummer about the drop, but that is an accepted risk of the RIDER'S decision.

Heal up man. I don't envy you for the next few weeks. Oh...just ignore that itch on your butt. Ignore it. ;)

[antipathy]

Stan, I'm very sorry to hear about your getoff. :( I hope your bike can be quickly repaired and that you heal up very soon to ride again! :mstingray

[jboat]

Sorry to hear about your mishap. I hope they gave you the short casts and not the one's that go to your elbow. If you don't have friends and family to help you when you need it, you could hire a temp home health aid to get you through. Check Craigslist or post a wanted ad...

And I hope you don't take this guy seriously...


Originally posted by bmer97
Let's see. I (the manufacturer and dealer) sell a product that is known to unsafe, that causes injury or death. I know how to make the product safer but don't.

What a shame. An attorney consultation may be advisable, and helpful to the riding community.

Good luck.

[VTRweasel]

Damn it stan,

I was really hoping you were crying wolf.

Call me if you can :p

[Climber]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Now, to avoid in the future...

First ride the bike almost upright for long enough to get the tires thoroughly heated up, then start taking turns which gradually increase the lean angle. What you want to do is to have the majority of the contact patch already scrubbed in with only a little bit of new unscrubbed surface on the patch so that it gets scrubbed while the already scrubbed part is providing the needed friction.

Where you went wrong was in tipping it over first while the tire wasn't even warm but you also were probably on a contact patch that was mostly if not all unscrubbed rubber.

[Hawaiirider]

Sorry to hear about the gravity-surge event. Crappy stuff happens sometimes, even to good riders. About 8 years ago (after having ridden for only 20 years or so ) I threw my BMW across an intersection less than a mile from the dealership that had just put fresh rubber on.

Yes, I "knew all about" new tires and I THOUGHT I was taking it easy enough, but a bit of impatience, lots of familiarity with the bike's ( assumed) capabilities, and 45 lbs ( ?? ! ) of air in the tires put me on my ass, luckily without serious injury. Heal up and the rest of you reading this - TAKE NOTE. Best wishes.

[bmer97]

Originally posted by fubar929
:laughing :laughing :laughing

That's some funny shit, man! Are you really suggesting that the dealership should put 80-100 miles and four heat cycles into your tires after they're mounted?

The problem with all of links is that they're based on tire construction techniques that were en vogue 20 years ago. HINT: just because some idiot has posted it on the Internet doesn't mean it's true. Dunlop, for example, doesn't use a release agent on any of their high-performance tires these days. Or at least that's what the guys at Sport Tire Services seem to think...

So, you are saying that 'modern' tire construction techniques do not use mold release compound?

If tires are sold that are as slippery as ice, I think we have a problem. There needs to be a final stage where any slippery compound is removed BEFORE releasing the motorcycle. I personally do not ride on ice ever, and I don't want new tires that are 'slippery as ice'.

You scoff at my links exploring this issue, yet you quote the 'guys at Sport Tire Services' statements on one line of tires, with NO reference.

At the least, there should be a uniform information warning provided with each tire purchase and installation. Everybody doesn't automatically know that they will be riding essentially on ice for the first 20 miles or so. Some riders CAN'T ride on ice at all!!

[Venomized]

Damn that sucks. That just happened to my friend back in July when he bought his tires too. He just picked up the bike, rode about a few blocks. Entered the looping on-ramp at around 10-20 mph and the bike just went under him and slid. Not as bad as yours, but he was pissed. It was his first time ever buying tires and the dealer did not warn him about anything about going easy. I told him you were supposed to go easy because they were new tires. He was like, I didn't know shit. I thought they would be grippier:wow . Good Luck with your recovery.

[edmo]

Stan that sucks. Let us know if you need anything. Hope your bike made it out ok.

[lizard]

Originally posted by uhmeebuh
Yes, Lizard, it was the Duc.....


Why God, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!?!???!??!?!??!??!!!!!!:cry!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[tuxumino]

wow dude that bites.
heal fast, hope it doesn't hit the wallet to hard.

when I got pilot power the profile of the tire took some getting used to after the profile of the dunlop 208zrs.

when ever I get new tires I like to go for a 50 mile ride at the speed limit or less along some twisty route.

[daventura]

Sending my best wishes your way.

Thanks for the update, Brandon.

:teeth

[Ratters]

Originally posted by bmer97
So, you are saying that 'modern' tire construction techniques do not use mold release compound?

If tires are sold that are as slippery as ice, I think we have a problem. There needs to be a final stage where any slippery compound is removed BEFORE releasing the motorcycle. I personally do not ride on ice ever, and I don't want new tires that are 'slippery as ice'.

You scoff at my links exploring this issue, yet you quote the 'guys at Sport Tire Services' statements on one line of tires, with NO reference.

At the least, there should be a uniform information warning provided with each tire purchase and installation. Everybody doesn't automatically know that they will be riding essentially on ice for the first 20 miles or so. Some riders CAN'T ride on ice at all!!

Haven't you ever bought new tires? I have many times and each time get a stern warning that they will be slippery and I know STG puts a warning sticker right on the invoice. My last two sets were pilot powers and I was actually amazed at how easy they were to break in. Part of it was a slab ride home from SF to Fairfield, but then took them up to the twisties and scrubbed them to the edge with no slippage at all. Just take it slow at first and wait for the tire to warm up before really doing any hard turning. It's really not that hard.

[stan23]

im not blaming anyone but me. they were new tires, and i;ve ridden in net tires before. (same ones) when i got on the bike,i was well aware, and kept reminding myself to "take it easy"

the turn i took leading into an expressway, i went extra slow, and was very surprised when the rear end slip. for a split second i knew i was going to go down, but i thought it would be an easy lowside... the next second, i remember the bike voilently flung me off and next thing i knew, i was looking at the ground and completely dazed. l knew right away that my left wrist was broken, but the right felt ok. i got up, sat next to the curb and a nice motorist stopped to see if i was ok.

[weak_link]

^Thank goodness you didn't get run over Stan. Hope they at least gave you some good meds to help the pain :(

So, um, you throwing the bodywork in the garbage or selling it cheap now ? :)
Yeah I know, I'm a vulture.

[stan23]

here are my temp splints until i get my casts on tuesday.

oh yes, many thanks to all the barfers that helped me truck the bike home and too me to the hospital and kept me company

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2683426-arm.jpg

[Silence]

Now I'm scurred to scrub in my tires. :cry

Like everyone said, take it easy while you heal up. Wrist injuries are teh suck but wrist injuries that heal wrong are worse.

[stan23]

the duc didnt look too bad. rashed plastics and the damn tail section flew off. i actually had a track day on the 16th, so i had to cancel that. oh well..

<<edit>> the duc will never be sold!

[bmer97]

Originally posted by Ratters
Haven't you ever bought new tires? I have many times and each time get a stern warning that they will be slippery and I know STG puts a warning sticker right on the invoice. My last two sets were pilot powers and I was actually amazed at how easy they were to break in. Part of it was a slab ride home from SF to Fairfield, but then took them up to the twisties and scrubbed them to the edge with no slippage at all. Just take it slow at first and wait for the tire to warm up before really doing any hard turning. It's really not that hard.

"Just take it slow at first and wait for the tire to warm up before really doing any hard turning. It's really not that hard." What if you need to emergency stop or swerve on the way home?

I would like that tire warning you received to be standardized for all tire installations.

The tire should have safe traction when you ride away. It is ridiculous to accept an unsafe product, just because 'we always have', or due to our knowledge of how to ride on ice, or because we have a long slab to safely remove the compound.

I am fortunate to have a 100 mile interstate slab from my dealer to my home, but a lot of people don't have this luxury. I bet that quite a few people don't understand that they are in danger of skidding/sliding after they have invested big bucks in tires and installation costs.

[budman]

Stan.. sorry about the fall.. two wrists sucks.

Fastconk on the board (Steve) from our race team did both about a year ago.. he probably has some tips on dealing with it.

I hope ya heal up quick and fully.. shit happens..just get healthy.

:smoking

[Silence]

Originally posted by bmer97
"Just take it slow at first and wait for the tire to warm up before really doing any hard turning. It's really not that hard." What if you need to emergency stop or swerve on the way home?

I would like that tire warning you received to be standardized for all tire installations.

The tire should have safe traction when you ride away. It is ridiculous to accept an unsafe product, just because 'we always have', or due to our knowledge of how to ride on ice, or because we have a long slab to safely remove the compound.

I am fortunate to have a 100 mile interstate slab from my dealer to my home, but a lot of people don't have this luxury. I bet that quite a few people don't understand that they are in danger of skidding/sliding after they have invested big bucks in tires and installation costs.

You're free to sit in front of the dealer and "scrub in" your tires with a nice sheet of sandpaper. ;)

[Wrong Way]

Sounds like you hit some anti-freeze or diesel to me.

Sorry to hear about the get-off.

BTW, I am starting a new business where I scrub in tires. All the customer will have to do is get the bike out to the track and I will put the first 100 miles on their tires for them. I will guarantee no chicken strips on most models. All of this for a minimal fee of $10.

[Silence]

Originally posted by Wrong Way
Sounds like you hit some anti-freeze or diesel to me.

Sorry to hear about the get-off.

BTW, I am starting a new business where I scrub in tires. All the customer will have to do is get the bike out to the track and I will put the first 100 miles on their tires for them. I will guarantee no chicken strips on most models. All of this for a minimal fee of $10.

If you factor in the gas and the insurance you'll need, it'll be more expensive than that just to break even. :p

[zanshin]

Originally posted by bmer97
So, you are saying that 'modern' tire construction techniques do not use mold release compound?

If tires are sold that are as slippery as ice, I think we have a problem. There needs to be a final stage where any slippery compound is removed BEFORE releasing the motorcycle. I personally do not ride on ice ever, and I don't want new tires that are 'slippery as ice'.

You scoff at my links exploring this issue, yet you quote the 'guys at Sport Tire Services' statements on one line of tires, with NO reference.

At the least, there should be a uniform information warning provided with each tire purchase and installation. Everybody doesn't automatically know that they will be riding essentially on ice for the first 20 miles or so. Some riders CAN'T ride on ice at all!!


With all due sympathy for Stan's spot of bad luck, this "riding on ice" stuff is pure hysterical nonsense.

You know what happens at a club race?

You take your wheels to the tire truck and get the new tires mounted and balanced. Then back to your pit to reinstall the wheels.

Then off you go to the hot pit for a minute of "slalom" to scrub in the tires. Having done that, you proceed to the hot lap before your race. In the course of this one lap, as the tires warm up, you take the next corner faster and faster until you're at 80% of race pace (i.e. fast enough to soil your particular shorts, by the sound of it).

And then you grid, wait for the flag, and go balls out.

Do the corpses pile up as people "ride on ice for the first 20 miles"? Please! :hand

There is on occasion a noob who takes the first couple corners of the race too hard on a cold early morning track and goes dirt farming, but this is almost entirely a function of tire and track temperatire, and is easily avoided with common sense and experience.

Everyone else who's got new tires is going 100% on tires that had 1-2 miles of (skillful progressive) use since installation.

Lastly, as a personal data point, I cannot recall any of the numerous riding/racing acquaintances from my sordid past crashing on freshly mounted tires.

[zanshin]

Originally posted by Wrong Way
Sounds like you hit some anti-freeze or diesel to me.
[]



+1 Dry coolant can be virtually invisible yet result in decreased traction.

[stan23]

come on guys.. lets get back to the point here. crap can happen anywhere/anytime. if my posts will remind someone to take it easy on new tires, then i'm satisfied. i've humbled myself, and i hope some of you will learn from my mistake.

on a lighter note, im glad i broke my wrists and not my leg/collarbone. i;m glad that i wont need surgery and i can walk around on my own. sure it will suck for the next few months, but all i can do is hope for the best and take it really easy.

i'm actually on vacation from work until sep 11th. im hoping by that time, someof the pain will go away. (it was really had sleeping last night!)

[Ratters]

Originally posted by stan23
im gonna sell the duc asap.

Like that has anything to do with crashing.


:twofinger

[Gragorin]

Originally posted by zanshin
Lastly, as a personal data point, I cannot recall any of the numerous riding/racing acquaintances from my sordid past crashing on freshly mounted tires.

But yet we hear about it all of the time...

[Flipside]

Originally posted by stan23
so today, i installed my new pilot powers and decided to take its maiden voyage. left my house, rode about a quarter mile to a turn... took it extremey careful (about 20mph) immediately rear slid out and a split second later, it regained traction and bucked me off... ilanded superman style and also hit my head on the ground.

damage?

both wrists broken, and a huge rash on my left leg. the next two months are gonna suck....

any tips to make life easier? High side at 20 mph thats bizzare.I feel for you man. Heal up fast.

[Rob]

Stan...

Gimmie a call sometime if you need a hand doing anything outside the bathroom.

Go to the store and get some baby wipes. Figure out what they're for on your own. ;)

And no... you're NOT selling the duc... unless you're replacin it with a Hyper... or SVX.

:( :cry

[porterville]

what bones did you break? when i was in high school i was on a skatebored and i was going down the a hill and was roughly doing 15mph and i hit a hole and the same thing happened i landed on just my right hand and snaped that bad boy in 3 places. It cracked the groth plate right down the middle :( ( roughly 17 weeks to heal ) it broke the snuff box in 2 places (roughly 10 weeks to heal) when your closing a door make sure you let go before it closes! get yourself a fly swatter if you dong already have one. that bad boy is going to itch like crazy, Good luck i hope you heal up better than before.

[}Dragon{]

I say we all pitch in a hand and buy Stan one of these:

http://www.dynamic-living.com/media/products/dl6005_bottom-buddy.jpg





http://www.dynamic-living.com/bottom_buddy.htm



(Stop with all this "I'm gonna sell the duc" BS :hand)

[porterville]

the docter told me that my right arm might grow slower or faster than my left arm. that happened 5 years ago and they are the same length.

[porterville]

AHHA!

[Rob]

I think what he needs... is one of these...


http://images.joke.co.uk/images/products/cc942wh-lge.jpg





*Edit* I'll take one too.... or two too.

[Triple Seven]

so what hurts more? listening to my album or your wrists? :laughing

get well soon man.

[ALANRIDER7]

It sucks this rider crashed. Heal up quickly.

To the bimmer guy- survival of the fittest seems to apply here.

If you can't get ahold of the concept of motorcycle tires, new or not, having to be warmed up to a proper operating temperature for them to do what they do.......you have issues. Expecting brand new, freshly mounted cold tires to be anything close to ready for the twisties is just plain ignorant. Expecting manufacturers and dealers to somehow "idiot proof" your newly mounted rubber is fantasy. Common sense is common sense, and we see here it isn't too common. There are several holes in your logic- the main one being it is still the responsibility of the rider to operate his/her machine within their limits of both the machine ands themselves. New tires need a period of bedding in to give the high level of grip now available from today's advanced technologies. Rubber and rubber related compounds are porous. Mold release agents will soak into and remain in the tread for a while. Scrubbing will get some of it off but not all. The only tried and true method that works is riding responsibly and sensibly. My experience has been that even brand new tires will grip quite well on the street if given a chance to THOROUGHLY warm up first. At the track, brand new tires are scrubbed in on 1 or 2 easy laps and then it's wide open running. 100 miles of break-in is not going to happen there. The tire loads on the track offers a faster way to heating the tires properly. Racers regularly take brand new tires right from the tire warmers to a fast pace right away.

This whole thread is more about cold tires than anything.

[superhawk]

Group buy!!!!!Originally posted by Rob
I think what he needs... is one of these...


http://images.joke.co.uk/images/products/cc942wh-lge.jpg





*Edit* I'll take one too.... or two too.

[moto-rama]

Man, I was just thinking how awful it would if BOTH my wrists/hands were in casts, like my right wrist has been for the better part of 4 months now (two separate surgeries).

If you require surgery and you're a kaiser member, may I suggest you get a consult from the doc who did my second (complex to the max) surgery. PM me and I will provide you with his info.

In the meantime, take a few days (two weeks) off, take your pain meds, keep your arms up like the Statue of Liberty, keep 'em iced, and tylenol can be beneficial.

Get well!

For your viewing pleasure, my post-op xrays:
http://colevalley.net/post-op

[Janna]

Originally posted by yelow748
tips on new tires .... wash with warm soap and water ( dawn )
@ least twice to remove the release agent , ride like there's an ice storm out side ....
Vitamins and liquids , keep the wrists elevated .
Get well fast

SuperTireGuy says, if I recall correctly, that what makes the new tire slippery is NOT something that can be scrubbed or washed off, and that you need several heat cycles to make the tires un-slippery. Sorry, STG, for butchering your explanation, and I hope I remembered the gist of it clearly.


I still wish that there were something that could be done to the tire after being sold but before the buyer rides off that would make them less slippery...

[VTRweasel]

I can be at Rock Bottom in an hour dude.

need a ride?

[Hooli]

Don't know if anyone has already said it...it's gonna' be a bitch wiping your ass. :wtf Seriously though, heal up quick!

If you had come to Vegas, this wouldn't have happened. :p

[donoman]

That sucks dude! Let me know if you need me to break in your tires properly! :twofinger

[CraigG]

Stan, get well soon man. You and the other guys were more than helpful when I went down, so let me know if you need anything. It's the least I can do.

I will not write your code for you though, FORTRAN is just too tedious :p

[Triple Seven]

look on the bright side, you found a cure for your chronic masturbation problem





























:laughing

[Beauregard]

Hey Stan, sorry to hear of your misfortune. As for tips regarding broken wrists, one word:

autofelatio.

[Sane_Man]

Originally posted by Beauregard
Hey Stan, sorry to hear of your misfortune. As for tips regarding broken wrists, one word:

autofelatio.

All you need is a dog and peanut butter. ;)

[SennaSixty8]

heal up Stan!

[geo]

Originally posted by Sane_Man
All you need is a dog and peanut butter. ;)

Or a bodybuilder and a bottle of tequila.

[Mrwoo]

Originally posted by Sane_Man
All you need is a dog and peanut butter. ;)



Only you would have a mind like that Sane_Man :laughing :laughing :cry

[SpeedyCorky]

Originally posted by stan23

any tips to make life easier?



420


:smoking



:teeth

[bmer97]

Originally posted by ALANRIDER7

New tires need a period of bedding in to give the high level of grip now available from today's advanced technologies. Rubber and rubber related compounds are porous. Mold release agents will soak into and remain in the tread for a while. Scrubbing will get some of it off but not all. The only tried and true method that works is riding responsibly and sensibly. My experience has been that even brand new tires will grip quite well on the street if given a chance to THOROUGHLY warm up first. At the track, brand new tires are scrubbed in on 1 or 2 easy laps and then it's wide open running. 100 miles of break-in is not going to happen there. The tire loads on the track offers a faster way to heating the tires properly. Racers regularly take brand new tires right from the tire warmers to a fast pace right away. This whole thread is more about cold tires than anything.

Eliminate your personal insults, and you have an excellent informative post.

My perspective: tire manufacturers should provide a product that is road worthy, sufficient for emergency stops and swerves, at the time of delivery to the customer. Maybe this is too much of a challenge for today's technology???

[Zerox]

Originally posted by bmer97
My perspective: tire manufacturers should provide a product that is road worthy, sufficient for emergency stops and swerves, at the time of delivery to the customer. Maybe this is too much of a challenge for today's technology???

If new tires weren't protected with all these slippery kemikuls, they'd probably be worthless after a few months of shelf life. That's an awful lot of unsold tire costs for the manufacturers to stomach, they'd go bankrupt.

New bikes are sold with new tires, and the dealership typically gives a stern lecture to buyers about taking it easy on new tires. Sometimes the lecture goes in one ear and out the other, every dealer has stories about the inattentive buyer who bought a new bike at their shop and highsided leaving the parking lot. :laughing

[afm199]

Originally posted by bmer97
Let's see. I (the manufacturer and dealer) sell a product that is known to unsafe, that causes injury or death. I know how to make the product safer but don't.

An analogy: I buy new brakes for my car. The dealer/service manager tells me to "go easy" for the first 100 miles or so until the brakes wear in; I leave, come to a stop sign, engage my non-functional brakes, and the car fails to stop. Death and injury result. This is unacceptable.

Simple preparation of the motorcycle tires would have prevented this accident and countless others. There are easy techniques for the dealer to remove the mold release compound from the new tires before the customer gets on the highway.

A study (magazine article would do) examining the friction coefficients and braking and swerving distances for new versus seasoned tires would be interesting. I would prefer this type of article over "will the new Hayabusa really have 200+ hp????" and similar articles.

Wrist fractures are complex for several reasons. One concern is the precarious blood supply to the bones, with the possibility of necrosis. Be sure to get the best possible care possible, and comply with the medical program, including rehab. from hand specialists.

http://www.emedicine.com/RADIO/topic747.htm

What a shame. An attorney consultation may be advisable, and helpful to the riding community.

Good luck.

Damn BARF is full of experts.

They have not used mold release in ten years. The new tires are just shiny. You just need to gently ride them around...... Most of us on the track break them in with ONE lap.

And encouraging someone to sue for not breaking in tires properly? I hope I NEVER ride within ten miles of BMER97, he sounds like the kind of guy who wants to sue Johnson and Johnson because their toilet paper inflames his suppurating hemerhoids.

[1nsanity]

damn stan. get well soon bro...

[ALANRIDER7]

Originally posted by bmer97


My perspective: tire manufacturers should provide a product that is road worthy, sufficient for emergency stops and swerves, at the time of delivery to the customer. Maybe this is too much of a challenge for today's technology???

Riders should provide common sense that is road worthy and sufficient for emergency stops and swerves when they start their engines.

[MrCrash]

Originally posted by bmer97
My perspective: tire manufacturers should provide a product that is road worthy, sufficient for emergency stops and swerves, at the time of delivery to the customer. Maybe this is too much of a challenge for today's technology???
The old D207/D208ZRs seem to be closest to this. They seem to come to temp faster than anything on the market, but they also wear away and get loose faster than just about anything on the market.

[amo]

dang man, sorry to hear about the crash! get well soon!

Willing to help out if you need it, I'm near cupertino if you need a ride somewhere, (even though you don't know me, just extending a helping hand! :P )

[uhmeebuh]

To answer the wrist/surgery questions:

He had fractures in both wrists at the radius and his right had an additional break at the ulna. From what I understood, no surgery would be necessary.

[weak_link]

It still sounds like it really hurts and is no fun at all.

[duc996girl]

Poor Stan! Heal up man! On the new duckie!? Awww....

what's this nonsense about selling it?

I did the exact same fuckign thing coming outta Road Rider a few years ago on my R1. That REALLY sucked...i feel for you..

Hope you heal up quick..

[Kid]

i think i rode like 50 miles on my pilot powers and then straight to the track i went...

sorry to hear about your accident

[eisenfaust]

This is why I dread getting new tires.

:(

Hope you heal up okay quickly, and I hope you have a loving GF to take care of you in the next month or so.

My right wrist/hand remains the only fracture I've ever suffered. It sucked, and that was only one limb. Two would really blow.

Get well fast!

[faz]

:wow

Sorry to hear, Stan.

It doesn't take much speed to cause serious body damage and broken bones.

Heal up quickly, don't think about the bike or anything else, just take care of those wrists.

[iehawk]

Damn Stan. Sorry to hear that. Yea, try not to use them at all... or use as little as possible. Let them heal 100% first.

Get well soon!

[geo]

Originally posted by faz
:wow

Sorry to hear, Stan.

It doesn't take much speed to cause serious body damage and broken bones.

Heal up quickly, don't think about the bike or anything else, just take care of those wrists.

When I was a kid, I broke my wrist playing football. Got tackled at a full run, supermanned on the way down, landed on a stiff arm. That'd be what, 5-10mph with 120lbs of pressure (at the time)? It really doesn't take much at all.

[Mike T]

ahhh!!! STANN!! hope youre alright man! heal fast!!! at least youre ok...

[shraz]

I have a new rear PP installed by Santa Clara cycles and had no trouble taking a nice lean entering the freeway. I am about 100 miles in and thinking of hittin the twisties slowly to get the sides done.

[VTRZA]

Damn,that's fucked up dude. You need any help hit me up. Pills and booze my ninja,pills and booze.:laughing

[notfromcali]

Treat those wrists like million dollar eggs for the first few weeks. Don't bump them on anything, don't hit anyone upside the head with them (sometimes it's tempting) and whatever you do, avoid sweating at all costs. Stay out of the heat whenever possible and don't exert yourself physically. If you have sex, make sure the girl is on top and does all the work. BJ's are ok. Anything you do in the first couple weeks will pay you back with itchyness the last couple weeks.

Stick to pullover shirts, the baggier the better. Button up shirts are just asking for trouble. Those goofy pants that chefs wear are great when you have two busted wrists. Moccasins or flip flops, shoes that use velcro instead of laces...all beautiful things.

For the pain I'd recommend going to the doctor. They'll give you a week or two of something prescription strength that you can take. You don't have to take it if you don't need it, but it's nice to have for at night when you just want to sleep.

Take it easy...

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by notfromcali

Stick to pullover shirts, the baggier the better. Button up shirts are just asking for trouble. Those goofy pants that chefs wear are great when you have two busted wrists. Moccasins or flip flops, shoes that use velcro instead of laces...all beautiful things.



Wear what the Chefs wear- you'll feel mo' better!

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2684207-th_pillsbury.gif

[bmer97]

Originally posted by afm199
Damn BARF is full of experts.

They have not used mold release in ten years. The new tires are just shiny. You just need to gently ride them around...... Most of us on the track break them in with ONE lap.

And encouraging someone to sue for not breaking in tires properly? I hope I NEVER ride within ten miles of BMER97, he sounds like the kind of guy who wants to sue Johnson and Johnson because their toilet paper inflames his suppurating hemerhoids.

:laughing

There sure seems to be a lot of confusion about the friction coefficient of new tires, though! Information on the manufacturers' web sites and elsewhere provides a dearth of useful information on this subject. Maybe the continuing reports of slippery new tires are just a bunch of hooey??

I got Hemerhoids riding on my sprotbile!
:laughing :laughing :laughing

[Christieland]

Ah crap! So sorry to hear about your mishap. Heal up fast, I bet Chi looks sexy in a nurse's outfit, you lucky dog! :laughing

[afm199]

Originally posted by bmer97
:laughing

There sure seems to be a lot of confusion about the friction coefficient of new tires, though! Information on the manufacturers' web sites and elsewhere provides a dearth of useful information on this subject. Maybe the continuing reports of slippery new tires are just a bunch of hooey??

I got Hemerhoids riding on my sprotbile!
:laughing :laughing :laughing

I'm not aware of any confusion. Most of us know to take it easy on new tires. What I expect happened to Stan was new tires, way too much air pressure (which I have not seen talked about in this thread, often dealers put in 36-42 for "liability reasons", ) perhaps a literbike, and quite probably snot on the road surface. Shit happens, sorry Stan got hurt, he's a good guy, but you blaming the tire manufacturers does nothing to help others consider what may have really happened. I have had new tires slide in a slight corner on the gas. You have to take it easy and scuff them in.

[Melissa]

Sorry to hear Stan. Please take life easy for a while and heal up righteously!

[bmer97]

Originally posted by afm199
I'm not aware of any confusion. Most of us know to take it easy on new tires. What I expect happened to Stan was new tires, way too much air pressure (which I have not seen talked about in this thread, often dealers put in 36-42 for "liability reasons", ) perhaps a literbike, and quite probably snot on the road surface. Shit happens, sorry Stan got hurt, he's a good guy, but you blaming the tire manufacturers does nothing to help others consider what may have really happened. I have had new tires slide in a slight corner on the gas. You have to take it easy and scuff them in.

Great informative post!
:Port

[ALANRIDER7]

A big factor no one has mentioned is that there is a pretty huge difference in profile between going from worn out tires to fresh new hoops. Worn tires are smaller in diameter and most likely have cupped tread with uneven wear across the tire width. This will give a much different feel when you are so used to riding on worn tires.

[Jakemate]

Sorry to hear about you and the duc, Stan.

Hopefully you heal up quickly.

I don't want to offend you, but when your rear squiggled out, did you cut off the throttle?

[Grunz]

Sorry to hear this happend to you Stan.
Get well soon.

[Dmk510f4i]

I thought the slippery stuff on new tires was to prevent the degredation of the tires while they sit on the shelf....

Regardless man, I read a lot of your posts and this isnt anything any of us wanted to happen to a fellow rider... Take it easy man.

[rama]

Didn't read thru 8 pages of tire debate, but wanted to mention a few things since you're soliciting tips:

1. work on your abs and lower back in your downtime. A strong core will help keep weight off your wrists when you resume riding.

2. stick riser bars on the Duc, or get something like a vstrom or something, where you're more upright. Sprot biles have the potential of putting a lot more pressure on those wrists.

3. look at some of the excercises rock climbers do to strengthen grip and wrists, once you're in the position to rehab.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by rama
Didn't read thru 8 pages of tire debate, but wanted to mention a few things since you're soliciting tips:

1. work on your abs and lower back in your downtime. A strong core will help keep weight off your wrists when you resume riding.



o0o....ahaha..makes you look good too dont it? ahahha...:laughing :teeth

good tips...:thumbup

[beestiboy]

I broke the ulna in 5 places and two surgeries later all was good.

As for recommendations get a good physical therapist, parafin wax treatment with ultrasound and a massage will do wonders for range of motion and strength. Staying off the bike for a while could be what you need too, but eventually youll come back.

I broke mine when I lost control of the bike it sucked pretty bad, super squid move on my part but I learned from it.

Heal good.

Oh I found that sleeping on the couch helped also but I only had one bad wrist not sure if that would help you or not.

[fasteddie_rr]

Percocet....

Sorry to hear the news. Having suffered one broken wrist I can say it sucks and heal time can be slow. Do not push the healing process or the consequences can be life long.

Wish you a speedy and solid recovery.

[AbeezieSoNeezie]

you better learn how to suck your own dick j/k

sorry to hear that mang. . gottsta be painful. .

gud'luck with the recovery. . . :thumbup

[V4]

sorry to hear....heal up quick, mang...

[Roundboy]

Damn didn't read this till now....what's going on dude? you crashed on ice skates huh? dude....you of all peeps know about the ice skates for 100 miles...but it's all good....well...heal up quick....oh and I suggest 420 for pain relief....hahahaha DR. FELDMAN knows best!

so i hope you have somebody to help you with the old chicken! ahahhaa

Choke it!

Later dude...sorry to hear you bailed. Heal up soon and ride with us in the spring!

[Choppa650]

I am sorry to hear this.. Hope you heal up quick.

[supertireguy]

It is important to ride at a mellow pace with new tires but in Stan's case here I suspect some car/truck fluid spewage on the roadway during the sweeping turn might have been a factor.

Motos are inherently a risky proposition and shit happens. I've had a number of minor crashes that were no big deal thanks to basic safety gear but over the years I've fractured my left clavicle in 1993 and Bennett's fractured my right thumb in 2005.
http://www.wheelessonline.com/ortho/bennetts_fracture_dislocation

No surgery was required for my collarbone but I couldn't ride for two months. The thumb biz required two temporary K-wire fixation points that were removed after 6 weeks. Today my collarbone sometimes has a mild twinge and my thumb is 99% perfect. After healing up every time my first instinct was to get back on the bike and revisit my crash sites to understand what went wrong and to learn from another life experience. Kind of a conquer my fear response I suppose. Spills and crashes happen for different reasons. All I can say is wear good moto safety gear, ride smart, take moderate chances and when you fall down just suck it up, heal up, learn from the experience and when able to get back in the saddle and ride once again.

[Holeshot]

Stan, remember the "pink slips" race you wanted to partake in? I sincerly believe you got ahead of yourself with this whole new Ducati bike thing and overconfidence. Summer's almost over, just heal up strong for next season.

Most times when hitting fluid, bike's won't highside, they'll go straight to the ground. Cold tire crash, simply as you know. Don't discount the fact that you've gained some false confidence somewhere. This is the other 50% of the equation.

Been there, done that, but not on the street. I'm not wholely suprised here...then again, I never am on BARF anymore. Even with my own crashes....

[whorenet]

i really think that it's more about temperature and pressure.
many times i’ve installed new tires at the track, slicks as well as dot’s and, after sitting on warmers and an easy lap or so to get them fully up to temp, i’m going at it. certainly not tens of miles.
i think that allot of people who are putting super sport compounds on their street bikes are rarely ever getting them up to the proper operating temp that they are designed to work at, unless your in the twisties for a decent period of time. if they are not up to that temperature range, they are not going to work.
that said, i've pulled out on the street on new tires and low sided because of just a small amount of throttle. luckily for me, without injury, but still felt like i should have known better.

[stan23]

hi all.

i wanna thank everyone for their kind wishes. these past two days have sucked, and i have a lot more days to look forward to. whats worse is that, the meds i take (vicoden and ibuprofen) has been really messing wiht my mind. it gets me depressed. anyways, i gotta deal with this and hopefully, i'll be on the bike again.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by stan23
i'll be on the bike again.

:thumbup

[Agent Orange]

but this guy crashed at 20 mph. that's like me taking a turn to up the hill when I pull outta my driveways in the morning.

[ALANRIDER7]

What tire pressures were you running?

[stan23]

alan,

friggen chi , just checked the bike (post crash) and 45 rear 37 front.

bike is at his house, and has not been touched since the accident.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by stan23
alan,

friggen chi , just checked the bike (post crash) and 45 rear 37 front.

bike is at his house, and has not been touched since the accident.

What is the recommended pressure for the bike? 45 sounds a tad high...

[stan23]

another tidbit

after getting the tires mounted from the shop, i checked the cold pressure, and it was 45 rear and 41 front.

after i mounted the tires, i dropped a few psi;s to what my tire gauge read 36 rear and 34 front.

i;m surprised the pressure went up since the accident?! i must have a faulty gauge?

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by stan23
another tidbit

after getting the tires mounted from the shop, i checked the cold pressure, and it was 45 rear and 41 front.

after i mounted the tires, i dropped a few psi;s to what my tire gauge read 36 rear and 34 front.

i;m surprised the pressure went up since the accident?! i must have a faulty gauge?

Have you had it calibrated?

[stan23]

Originally posted by }Dragon{
What is the recommended pressure for the bike? 45 sounds a tad high...

ive always ran mid 30's front and rear for my pilot powers. i;m baffled by the tire presssures now.

[SennaSixty8]

that/those pressures are way too high

[stan23]

Originally posted by }Dragon{
Have you had it calibrated?

it was the "highly acclaimed" radio shack talking tire gauge, that everyone loves.

i;ve tested it in the past and was fairly spot on.

[stan23]

Originally posted by Agent Orange
but this guy crashed at 20 mph. that's like me taking a turn to up the hill when I pull outta my driveways in the morning.

a 20mph crash, i am not scared of. a crash that involves 2 broken wrists and plenty of ofther problem areas that will affect me for 6+ months is what i;m scared of.

[stan23]

Originally posted by PorradaVFR
Sorry about your wrists...that sounds like a major PITA to say the least. Whoa.

As for the let's sue attitude, give it a rest. It's called personal responsibility. The tires are not flawed, not inherently risky in an unexpected way. It's a bummer about the drop, but that is an accepted risk of the RIDER'S decision.

Heal up man. I don't envy you for the next few weeks. Oh...just ignore that itch on your butt. Ignore it. ;)

good post. nothing wrong with new tires. just be extra cautious. i thought i was, but apparently not enough--so now i suffer the consequences.

[sensei]

Sorry to hear about your get off.

You seem to be keeping a good attitude despite the circumstances. What you said about glad it wasn't your leg....that was spot on. Any broken bones are the suck but broken legs prevent mobility to and from.

I broke my ankle on a crash in 1989 on my gixxer 750. Been dealing with really bad pain since. Mobility is much less. Just went to the doc and did an mri to see if they can do anything.

I have rumatoid [sp] arthiritis with degenerating cartilidge [sp?]. Dude said eventually all cartilidge will be gone and bone will be rubbing bone. Now that will be painful. Started talking about fusing my ankle but I'm not ready to go there yet. Maybe in 5 years there will be decent technology for ankle joint replacement surgery but who knows. Only God...

Heal up and keep a positive attitude...

[dan p]

Ouch that sucks.
I did the same thing at Searspoint in 98.
I had people around to help me with things which made a big differnce.
I was a little stubborn about taking it easy for the sake of recovery. It is hard to go from doing all you have to do to full stop.
That was the hardest part...that and not being able to race for the rest of the season.

[afm199]

Originally posted by stan23
alan,

friggen chi , just checked the bike (post crash) and 45 rear 37 front.

bike is at his house, and has not been touched since the accident.

Kinda what I thought. That 45 psi is what dumped you on the ground. Wayyyyyyyyyyy too much pressure.

[weak_link]

45!! :wow

[canyonrat]

Oh, that sucks big time.

I'm old school with new tires, a hit the front with a power sander and scuff it in, and the rear I put the bike on the stand and start the bike in 1st gear and hold sand paper against it.

After that I can hit the twisties nearly full on.

I started doing this after I had a close call with a new rear tire.

Remember to apply for all your disability insurances ASAP. Get the Doc to sign for a disability placard for your car! Pushing carts long distance will be a problem :)

BARF also stands for Bad Accident Recovery Forum.

Mark

[GiorgioFurioso]

Stan, really sorry to hear about your get-off. Take it easy on those wrists!!!

Also, consider keeping the Duc...they kick ass. They survive crashes well, too (ask me how I know...)

[wsmc831]

I always tried to be about 90% on warm up laps with new tires, stickers still on. They haven't used mold release agent in years, and washing, sanding, or anything else people are doing to new tires are completely unecessary.

[KoRnHoLyO]

That sux main..... Hope you heal up quickly........

[grandmastershake]

the only place i will get tires mounted now is at super tire guy, a certain south bay shop did my tires and told me they set the pressure, checked it later and it was near 50PSI.

last time i got service there.


heal up homey.


Originally posted by stan23
another tidbit

after getting the tires mounted from the shop, i checked the cold pressure, and it was 45 rear and 41 front.

after i mounted the tires, i dropped a few psi;s to what my tire gauge read 36 rear and 34 front.

i;m surprised the pressure went up since the accident?! i must have a faulty gauge?

[supertireguy]

Thank you for the post accident tire pressure check. +42psi is too much and probably the primary factor in the crash.

42psi is the MAXIMUM recommended pressure for most motorcycle tires. Use this pressure for heavy bikes or when carrying a heavy load. This info is printed on the sidewall of every tire.

For most street motorcycle applications I use and recommend 31-34psi front and 34-38psi rear. A couple psi less for lightweight bikes and a couple psi more for heavyweight bikes.

If anything good comes from this episode I hope is for more riders, hopefully every rider, to check their tire pressures the first chance they get. After that check your tire pressures at least once a month. All tires new and old slowly lose pressure naturally.

[VillageIdiot]

Heal fast brotha.

[EugThinks]

My wrists were writhing just reading this thread... heal up fast and ride safe! :)

Now I'm afraid to get new tires, especially being a new rider and not having any experience with just HOW easy things need to be taken on them. Luckily, the tires I have have got a lot of tread left, so I probably won't have to worry about it for a while... but I live on a twisty hill, so you guys have got me jumpy now.

And on a side note (sorry for potential threadjack), what's a proper PSI range for Pirelli Diablos?

[Billness]

Aw fuck, Stan ... I go away from General for a while and you have to go and do this? Sorry to hear you're banged up, bro. Heal up quick and let me know if there's something I can do.

[Holeshot]

Stan, Terry from Sport tire services carries a $20 gauge that is accurate to the pound. It's the best gauge I've ever had.

Don't know if the radio shack one's any good, but sounds like it should go in the classifieds.

[ALANRIDER7]

Originally posted by stan23
alan,

friggen chi , just checked the bike (post crash) and 45 rear 37 front.

bike is at his house, and has not been touched since the accident.

An overinflated cold tire is a crash looking for a place to happen.

Tires are part of the suspension system. They have to "give" a bit to keep the tire contact patch connected to the road. The higher the pressure, the stiffer the tire- the less it conforms to the road surface (read- smaller contract patch). Add to that the new tire was cold (less pliable) and you hitting a road irregularity or some grit or cinders and boom- it's all over.

Who mounted those tires?

[Wannaduck]

Stan, since you checked the psi prior to the accident, you may want to have someone recheck the gauge that you have and see if it's faulty. Somehow I ended up with 3 different gauges and double check with each other. The chances of them being off by the same amount is small...of course, there is nothing like checking/calibrating them with a reputable place.

[wsmc831]

Originally posted by EugThinks
My wrists were writhing just reading this thread... heal up fast and ride safe! :)

Now I'm afraid to get new tires, especially being a new rider and not having any experience with just HOW easy things need to be taken on them. Luckily, the tires I have have got a lot of tread left, so I probably won't have to worry about it for a while... but I live on a twisty hill, so you guys have got me jumpy now.

And on a side note (sorry for potential threadjack), what's a proper PSI range for Pirelli Diablos?

Watch some races. You think the pro's have someone there sanding down new tires? :laughing

No, they just go scrub them in a bit for a lap....just be smooth with the inputs for the first 20 miles or so and lean gradually.

[beestiboy]

Originally posted by stan23
hi all.

i wanna thank everyone for their kind wishes. these past two days have sucked, and i have a lot more days to look forward to. whats worse is that, the meds i take (vicoden and ibuprofen) has been really messing wiht my mind. it gets me depressed. anyways, i gotta deal with this and hopefully, i'll be on the bike again.

Yeah i was off the Vicoden after 2.5 days cuz it made me loopy. Switched to Captain Morgan and it worked just as well. Some ibuprofen for swelling and you are all good.

[SM610]

Interresting thread, Allen, Supertireguy and many others seem to have their wits about them.

bmer97's posts remind me of what has become "The American Way"-- "somebody needs to get sued!!" You should sell your bike dude, cause some day it will need new tires, and THAT is a danger that you cannot be held responsible for!:hand The rest of us( that do just fine) have most certainly only been lucky so far.:laughing Just imagine how big a class action suit we could have! If it wasn't for these damn new tires, our bikes would be COMPLETELY SAFE!

OK, I'm sorry for the cynicism, but imagine if you could how much less Stan's hospital bills would be, how much less everyones insurance would be, if laywers hadn't told the world that "nothing is your fault-- and you have a right to be compensated (AFTER WE TAKE OUR %)"

Please people, be very carefull about using the words "laywer" , "lawsuit" , "court"-- Have some resonsibility for yourself. We ALL pay when some dumb shit pours coffee on her cooch, or thinks someone else should pay "cause it's not MY fault..." Curious what bmer97 thinks now that he finds out that there is no longer "mold release" and that others break in their tires in a matter of minutes, myself included. Is it possible that the gas station that let Stan over inflate his tires should be held accountable? OOOPS- there's that pesky cynism again!


Now, heal quick Stan, fix your cool Duc, and get back out there!

[CHICKenstrip]

Originally posted by SM610
IWe ALL pay when some dumb shit pours coffee on her cooch, or thinks someone else should pay "cause it's not MY fault..."

Crud. Paging Cardinal03...Not deliberately trying to be disagreeable but this is one of the best examples of why people need to get all sides of the story. A personal pet peeve of mine, the automatic lumping in with "frivolous" lawsuits. Not saying the tire thing is a legitimate cause for a suit, unless it's something on the lines of the Bridgestones or whatever but there is a time and a place for civil litigation.

That said...sorry to hear what happened, Stan, hope that you can take it easy and let those wrists heal. :)

[SilverBird]

Among the tips...

Buy a couple of pair of jeans one size over what you usually wear, they'll be easier to put on.

Easy on pain killers, use them only when really needed, after 2 weeks it will take a LOT of vicodin to have some effect if you kept your daily dosage high (YMMV).

Use as much of your mobility as you can, this will reduce the swelling and pain when PT times come.

Find a good orthopedic surgeon, and get a second opinion (if there are dissenting views on the possible healing, you want to know about it ASAP).

Hugo

[Var]

I had my pilot power at 32F/34R and scrubbed them down to within 2mm of the edge on each side in the first 15 miles. First weave left and right in a straight line until you have 1-2 inches left on each side then progressively start taking turns lower and lower.

[DeathB4mullets]

Originally posted by bmer97



What a shame. An attorney consultation may be advisable, and helpful to the riding community.

Good luck.

:hand we need less frivolous lawsuits. not more.

Brakes will still work if they are new...they *will* glaze over if you go too hard on them in the first break in period, causing you or the dealer to remove and sand them down to remove the "glaze". I have put many tires on my bikes, as well as installed tires for a living. I have never crashed on new tires (just got new pilots two weeks ago) and have always taken it easy.

Sorry to hear about your accident, and heal up soon Stan. Being broken sucks! Valgar has some tootbrush tips though....

[Baptistro]

Damn Stan, sorry to hear about your spill. Please make sure to follow the doc's instructions, you don't want to have problems in the future. Let me know if you need anything bro.

[redline]

Get well, Stan. BOTH wrists! Man, that really sucks!

[SM610]

Originally posted by CHICKenstrip
Crud. Paging Cardinal03...Not deliberately trying to be disagreeable but this is one of the best examples of why people need to get all sides of the story. A personal pet peeve of mine, the automatic lumping in with "frivolous" lawsuits. Not saying the tire thing is a legitimate cause for a suit, unless it's something on the lines of the Bridgestones or whatever but there is a time and a place for civil litigation.

That said...sorry to hear what happened, Stan, hope that you can take it easy and let those wrists heal. :)


Sorry I was being "crud" but I don't know another word for "laywer":laughing Is Cardinal03 a laywer?

[SM610]

Hey wait, you wrote "crud"-- I thought you meant "crude" UMMM, what did you mean?:laughing :laughing

[ALANRIDER7]

The guy sounds like he wants to sue the manufacturers because tire warmers are not standard equipment.:rolleyes

Even if there was some "magic" way to scrub new tires in before riding, the squids are still more likely to crash. Darwin was right.

[bellstar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by }Dragon{
[B]I say we all pitch in a hand and buy Stan one of these:

http://www.dynamic-living.com/media/products/dl6005_bottom-buddy.jpg

http://www.dynamic-living.com/bottom_buddy.htm




Oh that is just brilliant!......Now I know what I'm getting my Brother for his B-day!

Hope you feel better soon Stan!!

[CHICKenstrip]

Originally posted by SM610
Hey wait, you wrote "crud"-- I thought you meant "crude" UMMM, what did you mean?:laughing :laughing

:laughing Definitely nothing directed at you, Pat! I should have just said <sigh> Do a search, I think it's come up outside of the Sink, but that lawsuit has been brought up many times and I think Cardinal03 is the other member who sees it more from the POV I do.

In any event, it has nothing to do with this thread, unless there was a wanton and dangerous condition of the tire that warrants a lawsuit. Sorry to muck things up with extraneous info.

[Donoho]

Sorry for pic delay, wanted to get approval first :p

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2686598-pic_090206_005.jpg

[Donoho]

barf support

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2686602-pic_090206_008.jpg

[Donoho]

Originally posted by Friggin Chi
It's nice to have friends... :laughing

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2686640-pic_090206_016.jpg

[antipathy]

Awww....poor Stan! :cry

(nice jeans ;))


Uhmeebs, you're incorrigible! /shaking head

Post your plight on myspace; see if you can get some sympathy head out of it! :mstingray :boobies :thumbup

[Donoho]

http://lh5.google.com/donoho/RP4OcbixABI/AAAAAAAAAFI/VOAniksD0Ic/IMGP2105-1.JPG

http://lh6.google.com/donoho/RP4OfUiWABI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/l6c7PKrGQGs/IMGP2108-1.JPG


http://lh4.google.com/donoho/RP4OV70KABI/AAAAAAAAAE4/TbRljccoK84/IMGP2102-1.JPG

http://lh6.google.com/donoho/RP4OHEP7ABI/AAAAAAAAAEQ/PWfQzcaWJ20/IMGP2095-1.JPG


The rest of the pics can be found here

http://picasaweb.google.com/donoho/StansAccident

[bmer97]

Originally posted by SM610
bmer97's posts remind me of what has become "The American Way"-- "somebody needs to get sued!!" You should sell your bike dude, cause some day it will need new tires, and THAT is a danger that you cannot be held responsible for!:hand The rest of us( that do just fine) have most certainly only been lucky so far.:laughing Just imagine how big a class action suit we could have! If it wasn't for these damn new tires, our bikes would be COMPLETELY SAFE!
Please people, be very carefull about using the words "laywer" , "lawsuit" , "court"-- Have some resonsibility for yourself. We ALL pay when some dumb shit pours coffee on her cooch, or thinks someone else should pay "cause it's not MY fault..." Curious what bmer97 thinks now that he finds out that there is no longer "mold release" and that others break in their tires in a matter of minutes, myself included. Is it possible that the gas station that let Stan over inflate his tires should be held accountable? OOOPS- there's that pesky cynism again!

A customer buys a product.
The customer uses due diligence in the use of the product.
The customer is seriously injured because of a defect or unsafe characteristic property of the product.
The manufacturer/retailer may have some financial responsibility.

My advice to consult with an attorney is reasonable. Suing may not be appropriate in this case, depending on the particular facts. The attorney may be able to get at least partial reimbursement for the medical bills out of court, if the client so agrees to pursue this path. At least an injured rider will understand his rights under civil law.

There is a LOT of confusion regarding the slippery nature of new tires. The contention that "tire mold release compound" hasn't been used in 10 years by any tire manufacturer is stated without reference. Whether or not tire manufacturers apply rubber preservatives to extend shelf life on their tires is still in question. The slippery properties of new tires may have to do with just the smoothness of the rubber before it is scuffed. No tests have been conducted in our "trade" magazines comparing new vs worn in tires, despite recurrent reports of accidents and testimonials that the tires were as slippery as ice.

I have submitted questions on this topic to a few motorcycle manufacturers, and have yet to get a response. Dunlop's website states that a rider just has to get used to the new tire, as if the tire has its full friction co-efficient off the shelf.

My perspective: a motorcycle tire is roadworthy only if it is capable of providing adequate traction for emergency swerving and stopping as the customer rides home from the shop. It is my hope that one day, the rider customer can at least choose (perhaps at a higher cost) new tires that have their full traction abilities at the time of mounting.

In the interim, I choose to ride the superslab, progressively increasing angles of swerving to condition my new tires for approximately 100 miles, and would not ride on new tires if the roadway was wet.

[}Dragon{]

Do you ride one of these often?:p

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2686877-high_horse.jpg

[kt*]

If I was there, I would totally come over and help you out. Too bad I'm 20 hours away. Take care. I'm sorry that this happend. Just keep your head up.

[r6diva]

Originally posted by stan23
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2683426-arm.jpg

What's up with all the 'A' cups? :p You should've come to Vegas...this wouldn't have happened! :twofinger

Seriously though...hope you heal fast.

[Triple Seven]

Originally posted by Donoho
barf support

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2686602-pic_090206_008.jpg

lol, the last thing i want when im sitting in pain is some ginger kid's face in mine!!

:laughing :cry

[machete]

dude, sorry to hear this. keep those wrists elevated, and I'm sure uhmeebuh has already offered to clean your ass, so take him up on it...i hear he likes male ass a lot. i'm just saying, it's what I heard.

i've started a trackday on brand new tires, that needed scrubbing in...and had no problems....whatever the problem was, i'm sorry to hear about it, and also for the bike. ouch! any pics of the bike yet?

heal up bro.

you got any xrays you can post up. were the breaks (cracks) or full/complete breaks of the bones....both of them, or just one. radius or/and ulna. or wrist bones only?

[ALANRIDER7]

Originally posted by bmer97
A customer buys a product.
The customer uses due diligence in the use of the product.
The customer is seriously injured because of a defect or unsafe characteristic property of the product.
The manufacturer/retailer may have some financial responsibility.



There is something disturbing about your logic.

Due diligence is a broad term to use. Did this rider really and truly use due diligence in the true sense of it's definition? Let's see- he had new tires put on. He then rode his bike and quickly crashed.

Did he allow an adequate period of time for the tires to warm up? Apparently not.

Did he verify that the tire pressures were set correctly? Apparently not.

Did he take the time to get the "feel" of what these new tires were like as directly compared to his worn tires? Apparently not.

Does the rider and the rider alone bear responsibility for the operation of his bike? Apparently so.

You make it sound like there is supposed to be some sort of guarantee of 100% predictable performance as soon as the engine starts. Common sense says that new tires need to be given a normal amount of time and mileage to bed in, warm up and be adjusted to by the rider. Fuck, even Valentino Rossi does a sighting lap on his new slicks when he leaves the garage and heads onto the track- and those super sticky tires are at well over 150 degrees from the warmers!

A reasonable person would expect that the tires need to be broken in properly.

Your line of thinking does not place responsibility where it belongs- squarely on the shoulders of the rider.

If the tires were improperly mounted, that's another story entirely.

So now the question is this- who put 45 psi in the tire?

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by ALANRIDER7
There is something disturbing about your logic.

Due diligence is a broad term to use. Did this rider really and truly use due diligence in the true sense of it's definition? Let's see- he had new tires put on. He then rode his bike and quickly crashed.

Did he allow an adequate period of time for the tires to warm up? Apparently not.

Did he verify that the tire pressures were set correctly? Apparently not.

Did he take the time to get the "feel" of what these new tires were like as directly compared to his worn tires? Apparently not.

Does the rider and the rider alone bear responsibility for the operation of his bike? Apparently so.

You make it sound like there is supposed to be some sort of guarantee of 100% predictable performance as soon as the engine starts. Common sense says that new tires need to be given a normal amount of time and mileage to bed in, warm up and be adjusted to by the rider. Fuck, even Valentino Rossi does a sighting lap on his new slicks when he leaves the garage and heads onto the track- and those super sticky tires are at well over 150 degrees from the warmers!

A reasonable person would expect that the tires need to be broken in properly.

Your line of thinking does not place responsibility where it belongs- squarely on the shoulders of the rider.

If the tires were improperly mounted, that's another story entirely.

So now the question is this- who put 45 psi in the tire?

Wow- you'd think riding a sprotbile is dangerous or sumptin' :toothless

[Snoggin]

Man I know how that feels. well kind of. When I was young and dumb I got kinda drunk and tried to jump a fence at stinsonHopped my two feet up to the top of a six foot chain link fence and kinda stood up o jump over and at the last moment noticed there was one more strand of barbed wire at the top and it was over my toes. so I am six feet tall standing on a six foot fence and went straight down to the ground. Of course i put out my arms to break my fall which they did but at the cost of fractured wrists and elbows. This was in front of my new girlfriend and she was very impressed. We actually got married. No casts for me as the fractures wer nondisplaced but it took a LOOONG time to get back to a semblance of normal. I was a carpenter though and managed to go back to work in a week but it hurt for a long time and i never got full range of movement back. do your pt and stuff,
When I break in new tires I actually try and use the gas and the brakes kinda aggresively but in a mostly straight up and down orientation and then add bits of lean angle a little at a time. I can get out to the edge relatively quickly like twenty miles. Or a couple of laps at the track . I personally dont believe it takes 100 miles to break in tires its all how you do it. they just need to be scrubed in thoroughly.

Feel better soon

[bmer97]

Interesting thread.
Good information, thoughts, and perceptions on a serious subject, by a wide variety of BARF members.
The ad hominem attacks, though logically fallacious, continue to be amusing!:laughing

Get well soon!

Moving on.

[uhmeebuh]

Originally posted by Triple Seven
lol, the last thing i want when im sitting in pain is some ginger kid's face in mine!!

:laughing :cry

I know! I'm sorry - I can't help it...

If you can't kick your friends when they're down, when can you kick them? :laughing

Originally posted by The Worlds Biggest A-hole
dude, sorry to hear this. keep those wrists elevated, and I'm sure uhmeebuh has already offered to clean your ass, so take him up on it...i hear he likes male ass a lot. i'm just saying, it's what I heard.

You're lucky I didn't go to Vegas - it woulda been your ass I was after :devil

Originally posted by The Worlds Biggest A-hole
you got any xrays you can post up. were the breaks (cracks) or full/complete breaks of the bones....both of them, or just one. radius or/and ulna. or wrist bones only?

I'd like to see these again...

[hoax]

Sucky d00d, seriously sucky.

I hope you heal up fast. Best of luck.

[stan23]

here is a pic of the tire. i was making a right turn mind u. the left side of the was unused up until the accident.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2687222-imgp2099-1.jpg

[stan23]

casts will be on for a month.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2687229-imgp2094-1.jpg

[jenmonkey]

stan, this is awful!! i can't believe my big brother went down!!! if there's anything i can do, just ask.

in fact, we should be throwing you a party to cheer you up, once you're well enough to party a bit. don't worry, you won't have to move around a lot or open your own beers - i'll be your personal nurse. and since we're like siblings, you know that's not a sexual comment in any way. :P

but seriously man, anything you need. (i broke both my wrists in cheerleading too, so i understand how much life sucks for you right now)

get better, fast!!

-jen:ape

[ALANRIDER7]

Originally posted by bmer97
Interesting thread.
Good information, thoughts, and perceptions on a serious subject, by a wide variety of BARF members.
The ad hominem attacks, though logically fallacious, continue to be amusing!:laughing



It's not an ad hominem attack.

It's about what is reasonable in expectations.

[stan23]

Originally posted by jenmonkey
stan, this is awful!! i can't believe my big brother went down!!! if there's anything i can do, just ask.

in fact, we should be throwing you a party to cheer you up, once you're well enough to party a bit. don't worry, you won't have to move around a lot or open your own beers - i'll be your personal nurse. and since we're like siblings, you know that's not a sexual comment in any way. :P

but seriously man, anything you need. (i broke both my wrists in cheerleading too, so i understand how much life sucks for you right now)

get better, fast!!

-jen:ape

thanks Jen! (kid sister)

[Ratters]

Bike doesn't look bad at all. :thumbup Now you can paint it all flat black and make it look SAWEEET!

[stan23]

rick, brandon - here are the xrays. i was told the left arm was broken in 2 places.

the other problems i have are that my right shoulder/chest is really sore/painful and my knee is really bruised/rashed making walking very difficult.

http://www.stanc.net/left.jpg

http://www.stanc.net/right.jpg

[stan23]

Originally posted by ALANRIDER7
There is something disturbing about your logic.

Due diligence is a broad term to use. Did this rider really and truly use due diligence in the true sense of it's definition? Let's see- he had new tires put on. He then rode his bike and quickly crashed.

Did he allow an adequate period of time for the tires to warm up? Apparently not.

Did he verify that the tire pressures were set correctly? Apparently not.

Did he take the time to get the "feel" of what these new tires were like as directly compared to his worn tires? Apparently not.

Does the rider and the rider alone bear responsibility for the operation of his bike? Apparently so.

You make it sound like there is supposed to be some sort of guarantee of 100% predictable performance as soon as the engine starts. Common sense says that new tires need to be given a normal amount of time and mileage to bed in, warm up and be adjusted to by the rider. Fuck, even Valentino Rossi does a sighting lap on his new slicks when he leaves the garage and heads onto the track- and those super sticky tires are at well over 150 degrees from the warmers!

A reasonable person would expect that the tires need to be broken in properly.

Your line of thinking does not place responsibility where it belongs- squarely on the shoulders of the rider.

If the tires were improperly mounted, that's another story entirely.

So now the question is this- who put 45 psi in the tire?

that about sums it up. there was no magical gremlin or any other "act of God" that caused my accident. to recap:

- new tires
- not heated up properly before taking an easy first turn
- rear tire at 45psi, despite checking with my own gauge from when i got the tire back from the shop
- it was noted that there was construction nearby, and ther was a lite dust of debri where i crashed.

it was strange, since i sincerly did my best to take the turn nice and easy.. no leaning, or hamfisted behavior.

[uraniaclio]

That's a tough one. I recently scrubbed a set of Sport Demons in and it really wasn't that bad. I'm wondering if debris had something to do with it too. I've scrubbed in 3 sets of tires the past 5 months or so and I was getting a bit complacent about the whole thing to be honest. I was going pretty hard within the first 50 miles on the latest set. I'll be sure to keep vigilant about new tires. Hope you get soon.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by Donoho
barf support

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/176/905/2686602-pic_090206_008.jpg

add a motor to that and some wheelie bars and you can ride that to the BARF meet and pop wheelies all day...:teeth ahha jk Stan...good to see you can actually move your fingers and all. oh yeah...nice cast colors too...hehe

[Jakemate]

[i].....nice cast colors too...hehe [/B]


I think port, (red), is supposed to be on the left, Stan.

:p

[CHICKenstrip]

Just so people know...

Ad hominem as logical fallacy

A (fallacious) ad hominem argument has the basic form:

1. A makes claim X.
2. There is something objectionable about A.
3. Therefore claim X is false.

A classic example derives from the Deutsche Physik movement, which argued as follows:

1. Einstein claims relativity is correct.
2. Einstein is Jewish.
3. Hence relativity is false.

The first statement is called a 'factual claim' and is the pivot point of much debate. The last statement is referred to as an 'inferential claim' and represents the reasoning process. There are two types of inferential claim, explicit and implicit.

Coming Soon:

Strawman and Appeal to Authority

:teeth

[2legs2wheels]

That sucks Stan, hope you get better soon...

[MizCoop]

Sorry to hear about the crash, Stan.

:(

Hope the wrist heal soon! That's gotta suck to break both... but I am glad to hear you have good friends taking care of you.

[CRAWLL]

Just read the first page and I'm sorry for your luck heel up quick,but...............it aint the tires! hell I mount my own tires and drag knee about ahlf way around the track on the first lap at thunder hill in the "B" grounp with Pilot powers......

[#1Freak]

Originally posted by bmer97
Let's see. I (the manufacturer and dealer) sell a product that is known to unsafe, that causes injury or death. I know how to make the product safer but don't.

An analogy: I buy new brakes for my car. The dealer/service manager tells me to "go easy" for the first 100 miles or so until the brakes wear in; I leave, come to a stop sign, engage my non-functional brakes, and the car fails to stop. Death and injury result. This is unacceptable.

Simple preparation of the motorcycle tires would have prevented this accident and countless others. There are easy techniques for the dealer to remove the mold release compound from the new tires before the customer gets on the highway.

A study (magazine article would do) examining the friction coefficients and braking and swerving distances for new versus seasoned tires would be interesting. I would prefer this type of article over "will the new Hayabusa really have 200+ hp????" and similar articles.

Wrist fractures are complex for several reasons. One concern is the precarious blood supply to the bones, with the possibility of necrosis. Be sure to get the best possible care possible, and comply with the medical program, including rehab. from hand specialists.

http://www.emedicine.com/RADIO/topic747.htm

What a shame. An attorney consultation may be advisable, and helpful to the riding community.

Good luck.


you have got to be fucking kidding me...........


B

[chrono-X]

just got around to this thread stan. Get well soon buddy. :thumbup

[kevin350]

Sorry to hear about this Stan. Take care and get well soon (and back on a cycle).

See you Thursday at Cardiff! :teeth
(chicks dig casts!)

[petehed]

Originally posted by geo
When I was a kid, I broke my wrist playing football. Got tackled at a full run, supermanned on the way down, landed on a stiff arm. That'd be what, 5-10mph with 120lbs of pressure (at the time)? It really doesn't take much at all.

+1 I've ganked my wrist pretty bad snowboarding by just pushing up from the ground to a standing position. Wrists are *really* easy to break.... delicate bastids.

[zefflyn]

Originally posted by bmer97

A study (magazine article would do) examining the friction coefficients and braking and swerving distances for new versus seasoned tires would be interesting. I would prefer this type of article over "will the new Hayabusa really have 200+ hp????" and similar articles.

Are you mad? If they did that, it wouldn't be long before every motojournalist in the world had two broken wrists, and then who'd ride and write about the new bikes?

Get well soon, Stan!

I'm lucky - I've never had a problem with new tires. Sure, I ride like a wuss all the time, but it works for me. I even picked up my bike with new tires from Cycle Gear (before I knew about STG) in the rain, and didn't experience slippage.

[TerryNugwin]

that knee looks pretty rashed up stan, poor duc.

[JMack]

dang Stan, just read this.

Heal up well and heal up quick bro.

Give a shout out if you need anything!

[Bunny]

Pressure sounds way high, but we all should make sure to check at least monthly. Too lo, too hi - neither one's good.

Nice non-matching casts. Bummer both wrists and your raw knee, but hope the rest of you was healthy to start. Take it easy when healing, but keep it moving too and exercise/flex the parts as you can. Lil hurt is ok, lot hurt is not.

I ruined my leg w/flesh wounds when I went down (in jeans), and it's a lil late, but I've gotten me some chaps now. May look/feel funny, but it protects good.

Other tips: use the speakerphone feature if available and a straw for your drinks
;)

[morthrane]

Originally posted by bmer97
A customer buys a product.
The customer uses due diligence in the use of the product.
The customer is seriously injured because of a defect or unsafe characteristic property of the product.
The manufacturer/retailer may have some financial responsibility.

My advice to consult with an attorney is reasonable.
With all due respect to Stan, there is nothing here that would point to an alleged product failure, nor do I really think there's any way of proving due diligence since virtually every motorcycle on the market is A) inherently statically unstable and B) performance limits can be exceeded by the user.

Until you have some sort of evidence that points to a direct failure beyond user input control, going to an attorn