loud car alarms in the middle of the night...

[edscholl]

so the past two nights, at ~4am, my neighbor's car alarm has been going off- probably related to the cold. it'll be on for a few minutes, stop for about 10 minutes, then start again. on and on, until about 8am.

this morning, at bout 5am, i'm standing there about to call the cops, when lo-and-behold, they roll up to the house w/ the car alarm. i tell them what's up, explain the neighbor's been gone for a couple days, and probably will be for a few more (they did LOTS of packing when they left) for vacation, and they tell me there's nothing they can do because the car is on private property?

is that true? you can be a loud nuisance at 4 am as long as you're not on the street? it's getting silly-stupid at this point- there's gotta be SOMETHING i can do (short of breaking the window and pulling out the battery), no?

[Mortifer]

no, break the window and pull out the battery.:teeth

bummer, hope it stops, that would make me wanna do bad things.

[VTRweasel]

http://media.redgaloshes.com/02/006878.jpg

[silverbelt]

I'm afraid so. Cops are not allowed on private property. If they trespass, they can be sued for violating that homeowners civil rights.

[}Dragon{]

You may wanna check if the city you live in has a public nuisance law, however I don't think that will resolve your situation (unless they have a stipulation that they can remove the veh. from private property)

If it was on the roadway - they could tow it away.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by silverbelt
If they trespass, they can be sued for violating that homeowners civil rights.

:wtf Huh?

[edscholl]

Originally posted by }Dragon{
If it was on the roadway - they could tow it away.

yeah, that's what they said... but what the f*? so i can blare my stereo at 125db in the middle of the night if i wanted, as long as i'm on my property? (i know i can't, so what the hell?!)

[Mortifer]

If ya have a floor jack, move the car into the street. problem solved.:)

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by edscholl
yeah, that's what they said... but what the f*? so i can blare my stereo at 125db in the middle of the night if i wanted, as long as i'm on my property? (i know i can't, so what the hell?!)

Well, there is *intent* there to disturb the peace. Plus if someone called in a complaint, I'm sure the cops would tell you to turn it down.

Do you know if your neighbors have any friends watching their place for them while they are on vacation? Maybe they have access to keys for the car and can disarm the alarm?

[silverbelt]

Hey }Dragon{ if a car is in a driveway and the alarm goes off because the owners are on vacation, and it is for 10 min until 8am or whatever, the cops cannot trespass and disable the alarm or cite the vehicle, or even tow it.

The authority of the local police dept is very limited. If a car is on private property, most PD's will say there is nothing they can do.

Myself and I am sure countless others will not tolerate police overstepping their boundaries. If a citizen really wanted to cause alot of trouble for cops, with a little effort and some help from a ACLU chapter, they could.

Many friends are extremist liberals with connections to activist groups. The cops in the bay area ought to know the demographics out here.

[Noid]

Not bagging on the police but.....It just seems so odd that the law can be construed to suit the needs of the police when they want it to. But when we have a alarm issue like this they can't do anything about it. They need to look a bit deeper for the complaining parties and find something.

I heard that you maybe able to use a stun gun on the car. Or you could keep setting off the alarm all day to wear down the battery so you can sleep at night.

[VTRweasel]

Just keep setting it off until the battery dies.

*edit, REPOST*

[silverbelt]

Originally posted by Noid
....Or you could keep setting off the alarm all day to wear down the battery so you can sleep at night.

+1 this is the best way to deal with it.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by silverbelt
Hey }Dragon{ if a car is in a driveway and the alarm goes off because the owners are on vacation, and it is for 10 min until 8am or whatever, the cops cannot trespass and disable the alarm or cite the vehicle, or even tow it.


If an Officer sets foot on the person's driveway... you don't have a trespass nor a violation of anyone's civil or property rights.

[edscholl]

Originally posted by silverbelt
+1 this is the best way to deal with it.

any idea how long do you figure this might take?

could i get in trouble if a cop rolls up and sees me sitting there continually thumping the car? :D

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Noid
Not bagging on the police but.....It just seems so odd that the law can be construed to suit the needs of the police when they want it to. But when we have a alarm issue like this they can't do anything about it. They need to look a bit deeper for the complaining parties and find something.

I heard that you maybe able to use a stun gun on the car. Or you could keep setting off the alarm all day to wear down the battery so you can sleep at night.

You? Bag on the police? Never...:laughing

Mike, the vehicle code (in general) addresses the roads and highways, with a few exception to private property. A city can enact an ordinance/ municipal code that extends to private property on nuisance vehicles, which can include having the vehicle towed... like too many el caminos on blocks on the front lawn, etc.

[silversvs]

You guys are hilarious.

Trespassing in someone's driveway? You make terrible Internet lawyers. In 99.9% of the cases there are no trespassing issues walking onto someone's privately owned driveway. Is the mailman, PG&E meter reader, newspaper delivery person, UPS guy, or anyone else trespassing when they walk up someone's driveway to conduct business? No they are not. This generally holds true for all front yards and walkways as long as they are not fenced off or posted no trespassing. Police officers have every right to enter onto someone's driveway, front walk, and front yard.

As for the car alarm continously going off:

Call down to the police department and politely ask the arriving officer to review CA Vehicle Code section 22651.5 (a). This section DOES apply to private property and the officer can remove the car from the driveway.

22651.5. (a) Any peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5
(commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, or any regularly employed and salaried employee who is engaged in directing traffic or enforcing parking laws or regulations, may, upon the complaint of any person, remove a vehicle parked within 500 feet of any occupied building of a school, community college, or university during normal hours of operation, or a vehicle parked within a residence or business district, from a highway or from public or private property, if an alarm device or horn has been activated within the vehicle, whether continuously activated or intermittently and repeatedly activated, the peace officer or designated employee is unable to locate the owner of the vehicle within 20 minutes from the time of arrival at the vehicle's location, and the alarm device or horn has not been completely silenced prior to removal.
(b) Upon removal of a vehicle from a highway or from public or
private property pursuant to this section, the peace officer or
designated employee ordering the removal shall immediately report the removal and the location to which the vehicle is removed to the Stolen Vehicle System of the Department of Justice.

[silversvs]

Originally posted by silverbelt
Hey }Dragon{ if a car is in a driveway and the alarm goes off because the owners are on vacation, and it is for 10 min until 8am or whatever, the cops cannot trespass and disable the alarm or cite the vehicle, or even tow it.

The authority of the local police dept is very limited. If a car is on private property, most PD's will say there is nothing they can do.

Myself and I am sure countless others will not tolerate police overstepping their boundaries. If a citizen really wanted to cause alot of trouble for cops, with a little effort and some help from a ACLU chapter, they could.

Many friends are extremist liberals with connections to activist groups. The cops in the bay area ought to know the demographics out here.

See post above. Feel free to sick the ACLU on the officer for doing his/her job as outlined by the Vehilce Code and requested by a neighbor who cannot sleep due to the alarm continously being activated.

[edscholl]

thanks silversvs- just what i was looking for!

[silversvs]

:hand No problem.

All the replies in this thread have provided a good laugh for the day.

[silverbelt]

OK silversvs, cops being the glorious guys you want them to be. How come they when called, they often say their is nothing they can do if its on private property?

You cite VC sections and take the ACLU as a joke. YOU are the one that is obnoxious and one of these days your luck will run out when you pick on the wrong person.

[silversvs]

Originally posted by silverbelt
OK silversvs, cops being the glorious guys you want them to be. How come they when called, they often say their is nothing they can do if its on private property?

Its not that I "want" them to be, its what I "expect" them to be. If they said there is nothing they can do, then they were wrong and that is why I/we try to provide that information here.

Originally posted by silverbelt
You cite VC sections and take the ACLU as a joke. YOU are the one that is obnoxious and one of these days your luck will run out when you pick on the wrong person.

I don't pick on people. I do my job to the best of my ability. I do the right thing the right way. I don't have to worry about the ACLU or any other group, because I work within the law and don't go outside it. I have nothing to worry about.

As stated before I/we cite specific VC sections to answer questions and educate folks. Nothing wrong with that as far as I am concerned we are providing a service.

Obnoxious? I don't think so.

[petehed]

What happens if the car gets vandalized? Can the cops then enter the premises since a crime has been committed... one that the cops won't bother prosecuting ;)

[edmo]

http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/06/adem/pictures/absolut/images/absolut%20molotov.jpg

[motorman4life]

http://www.240px.com/down_in_flames.jpg

Okay, it is settled. There is a solution, there is a vehicle code pertaining to this and all edscholl needs to do is get the cops out there while it is going off and demand it be towed IAW 22651.5(a) CVC. Solved. If the officer won't tow it, ask for a watch commander, print off the aforementioned CVC section and ask why they are not taking care of business. No biggie.

Many cities and counties also have similar sections that may be a bit more lax or more restrictive, but also give their local officers the authority to tox/impoind or disable the alarm by disconnecting the offending horn. From a liability standpoint, impond is safest for the agency as it is authorized in the CVC and the owner will have to pay for the tow and storage as well as a vehicle release from the PD. If it were my neighbor, if I could, I'd disconnect the alarm and leave him a phone message stating this was the least expensive solution FOR HIM. Put on hearing protection, jack up the front end and take one wire off the blaring horn or battery. None of MY neighbors would go after another for vehicle tampering, but I could see where that may be a concern, depending upon how well you know your neighbors. If that is the case, call the PD, tell them you want to remain annonymous and ask them to enforce 22651.5(a) CVC or you will be speaking with the Chief of Police in the morning.

Oh and "completely silenced" in the code means either reset so it will not go off momentarily, turned off/deactivated or disconnected. Not reset to go off again for no damned reason, in about 20 minutes.

Oh, and SILVERSVS... someone gave me this when I started to Mod here.. I pass it on to you now:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/188/036/2884443-barfmod.jpg

[zombi]

thanks for the real answers on this from the LEOs. I've had this happen to me before as well and I'm going to print a couple of the posts in this thread out to keep handy for next time it happens

[NorCalBusa]

Originally posted by }Dragon{
:wtf Huh?

Indeed; :wtf Huh?

[NorCalBusa]

Originally posted by silversvs
Its not that I "want" them to be, its what I "expect" them to be. If they said there is nothing they can do, then they were wrong and that is why I/we try to provide that information here.



I don't pick on people. I do my job to the best of my ability. I do the right thing the right way. I don't have to worry about the ACLU or any other group, because I work within the law and don't go outside it. I have nothing to worry about.

As stated before I/we cite specific VC sections to answer questions and educate folks. Nothing wrong with that as far as I am concerned we are providing a service.

Obnoxious? I don't think so.

Yeah, but that being right shit and showing other people the smoke they be blowing is wrong- THAT's obnoxious dude. LOL!

[JPM]

I think my rights have been violated for having to read this thread. :twofinger

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by JPM
I think my rights have been violated for having to read this thread. :twofinger

Duly representing Mr. JPM, I'm from the prestigious law firm of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe LLC... I'd like to reward you with your settlement for having to unduly endure this thread:

:2cents


:rofl

[JPM]

Originally posted by silverbelt
I'm afraid so. Cops are not allowed on private property. If they trespass, they can be sued for violating that homeowners civil rights.

What about the laws that allow for it and specifically say that officer can't be charged? You may try and take it to civil court, but please know you laws before you become an internet lawyer or civil right expert.

602.5. (a) Every person other than a public officer or employee
acting within the course and scope of his or her employment in
performance of a duty imposed by law, who enters or remains in any
noncommercial dwelling house, apartment, or other residential place
without consent of the owner, his or her agent, or the person in
lawful possession thereof, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

603. Every person other than a peace officer engaged in the
performance of his duties as such who forcibly and without the
consent of the owner, representative of the owner, lessee or
representative of the lessee thereof, enters a dwelling house, cabin,
or other building occupied or constructed for occupation by humans,
and who damages, injures or destroys any property of value in, around
or appertaining to such dwelling house, cabin or other building, is
guilty of a misdemeanor.

UPDATE- And some case law thrown in as a Holiday bonus.

http://www.acgov.org/da/pov/documents/police_trespassing.pdf

Originally posted by }Dragon{
Duly representing Mr. JPM, I'm from the prestigious law firm of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe LLC... I'd like to reward you with your settlement for having to unduly endure this thread:

:2cents


:rofl

And if that's all you got me, I want my 1 cent back (Since you always take 50%)!



:twofinger :twofinger

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by JPM
And if that's all you got me, I want my 1 cent back (Since you always take 50%)!
:twofinger :twofinger

:laughing

where did that lawyer joke thread go?

[JPM]

It was probably found to be unconstitutional or copyrighted and someone sued to have it removed.:p

[Noid]

See I knew there was a salution. Someone who knew what they were doing just had to show use.

Oh and by they way Mr. dragon. I just gave a $25.00 starbucks card to a nice officer in the town in which I live in to show he is appriciated.

























And very kind for not throwing the book at me or even a page of that book as I so deserved.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Noid
Oh and by they way Mr. dragon. I just gave a $25.00 starbucks card to a nice officer in the town in which I live in to show he is appriciated.

Good on you Mikey! :thumbup :applause

[Lucky]

If you decide to have the car towed (or I guess impounded), be prepared for some unhappy neighbors. I realize the situation sucks for you, but my car was towed while I was on a lengthy vacation, and it was the biggest financial fiasco of my life.

If you know them well enough, I'd say slim jim that thing (am I allowed to advise somebody to slim jim a car?), pop the hood, take off a battery lead, and explain the situation when they get back.

[Noid]

Originally posted by Lucky
If you decide to have the car towed (or I guess impounded), be prepared for some unhappy neighbors. I realize the situation sucks for you, but my car was towed while I was on a lengthy vacation, and it was the biggest financial fiasco of my life.

If you know them well enough, I'd say slim jim that thing (am I allowed to advise somebody to slim jim a car?), pop the hood, take off a battery lead, and explain the situation when they get back.

But if you don't know them, "just do it"

[Noid]

One of my neighbors went on vacation. Well the city decided to repave the streets and posted signs saying that any car left will be towed. well I knew they were going to SOL. So I used my AAA card and had their van moved into the drive way at the last possable moment. My neighbor did not thank for several months. And I knew him pretty well. What a ungrateful POS.

[Burner]

Originally posted by silverbelt
take the ACLU as a joke

come on, every PD needs a vic mackey :laughing

ok, not EVERY PD

[Mike T]

Originally posted by Mortifer
If ya have a floor jack, move the car into the street. problem solved.:)

ahah Mike is evil...

but yeah...i'd so the same...well..the broken window+battery removed way :teeth :angel

[berkeleycarlos]

Burner.. speaking of Macky, when is the Shield coming back on?

[edscholl]

Originally posted by motorman4life

Okay, it is settled. There is a solution, there is a vehicle code pertaining to this and all edscholl needs to do is get the cops out there while it is going off and demand it be towed IAW 22651.5(a) CVC. Solved. If the officer won't tow it, ask for a watch commander, print off the aforementioned CVC section and ask why they are not taking care of business. No biggie.
...
None of MY neighbors would go after another for vehicle tampering, but I could see where that may be a concern, depending upon how well you know your neighbors. If that is the case, call the PD, tell them you want to remain annonymous and ask them to enforce 22651.5(a) CVC or you will be speaking with the Chief of Police in the morning.


ok, an update... we're 4 days and running with this stupid alarm blaring in the morning. i called this morning w/ my handy dandy vc- but the police say they won't take a nuisance report anonymously, so i didn't leave an official complaint. if i do make a complaint officially and the car gets towed, will my neighbor be able to find out who got their stinkin' car towed?

if i get really frustrated and DO slim jim the car, how much trouble am i going to be if a cop rolls up and sees me doing it? :D

(i need some more helpful cops like silversvs and motorman in my town. sheesh).

[Lorry]

Another technique might be to live with it until the neighbours return...

...then knock on their door every day at 5am. and mention how much you hate their car alarm.

[Lucky]

When my car was told, they (the police or department of code enforcement) wouldn't tell me who complained about my car parked in front of my house.....I guess I can't blame them for not telling me....

[USARMworker]

Originally posted by VTRweasel
http://media.redgaloshes.com/02/006878.jpg

Fixed:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/188/036/2888170-006878.jpg

[Lorry]

Originally posted by Lucky
If you decide to have the car towed (or I guess impounded), be prepared for some unhappy neighbors. I realize the situation sucks for you, but my car was towed while I was on a lengthy vacation, and it was the biggest financial fiasco of my life.

Out of curiosity, why didn't you leave some spare keys with a neighbour, given that you knew you would be away for a while.

A friend of mine has left his car at my house while he is away for a couple of weeks over Christmas. However, he has also left his spare keys so I can move the car/kill the alarm/whatever as needed.

[Lucky]

Well, first of all, the neighbors to the left and right of me had cars (actually, their pickup trucks) parked in front of their houses for much longer before, during, and after my trip. I figured the area was not regularly enforced. And, I did leave a key with my room mate. Unfortunately, instead of checking on my car (parked right in front of the damn house), he called me while I was in Denver saying, "Uh, dude...where is your car?" Needless to say, I have since moved out....

[Nick]

Originally posted by edscholl
if i get really frustrated and DO slim jim the car, how much trouble am i going to be if a cop rolls up and sees me doing it? :D

(i need some more helpful cops like silversvs and motorman in my town. sheesh).

10852 VC, No person shall either individually or in association with one or more other persons, wilfully injure or tamper with any vehicle or the contents thereof or break or remove any part of a vehicle without the consent of the owner.


I was going to suggest 10853 VC, but there is specific intent involved.

[Lorry]

Originally posted by Lucky
Unfortunately, instead of checking on my car (parked right in front of the damn house), he called me while I was in Denver saying, "Uh, dude...where is your car?" Needless to say, I have since moved out....

Aaack! That sucks.

[cardinal03]

in ny it's brick through the window, pop the hood, disconnect the battery.

if you know your neighbor's number call them up, tell them some cops rolled by because the alarm was going off, tell them they're going to tow the car, tell them to call you if they want you to turn the alarm off before their car gets towed. maybe you'll get lucky and they'll check their messages.

then they can give you permission to call AAA and tell them you locked the keys in the car or something and then you can disconnect the battery.

if they don't get their messages then they'll only have themselves to be mad at when they come home and their car is gone.

[Burner]

Originally posted by berkeleycarlos
Burner.. speaking of Macky, when is the Shield coming back on?

i believe it's coming on in the beginning of april.

[berkeleycarlos]

Sweet.

[07chuck]

Set it on fire....

The local fire department will take care of everything...

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by 07chuck
Set it on fire....

The local fire department will take care of everything...

Sorry the fire dept can't trespass on private property :laughing

[berkeleycarlos]

saving a house will upset the ACLU.

[FrigginChi]

great if u do that and the car gets stolen ans vandalized will you get sued?


Originally posted by Lucky
If you decide to have the car towed (or I guess impounded), be prepared for some unhappy neighbors. I realize the situation sucks for you, but my car was towed while I was on a lengthy vacation, and it was the biggest financial fiasco of my life.

If you know them well enough, I'd say slim jim that thing (am I allowed to advise somebody to slim jim a car?), pop the hood, take off a battery lead, and explain the situation when they get back.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by berkeleycarlos
saving a house will upset the ACLU.

Yeah- even when a house is burning and no one's home; FD has to stage until the owner is contacted by the department attorney and the damage and property access waivers are signed.:p ;)

[silverbelt]

You LEO's continue to make a mockery of homeowners property. Just a matter of time before someone makes you pay.

I guess you feel you have the right to do anything hiding behind your fucking gun and badge.

No wonder everybody hates cops :rolleyes

[silversvs]

Originally posted by silverbelt
You LEO's continue to make a mockery of homeowners property. Just a matter of time before someone makes you pay.

I guess you feel you have the right to do anything hiding behind your fucking gun and badge.

No wonder everybody hates cops :rolleyes

:hand

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by silverbelt
You LEO's continue to make a mockery of homeowners property. Just a matter of time before someone makes you pay.

I guess you feel you have the right to do anything hiding behind your fucking gun and badge.

No wonder everybody hates cops :rolleyes
Dude, 1) Dragon is a Fireman. Don't pin the "mockery" you were apparently responding to on us LEOs... we don't claim him (...most of the time). :laughing 2) This whole issue has to do with QUALITY OF LIFE and COMMON COURTESY, not homeowner's property rights. It is unfortunate you don't see that and want to blame the police for all of the problems in our society.

The debate was whether the police could take action within the law to deal with a malfunctioing car alarm in a residential area. We have clearly established that they can take lawful action and should have taken appropriate action to restore peace in the neighborhood to AVOID the possibility of reasonable people being pushed to unreasonable lengths to the point that some may consider taking vigilante actions to deal with the problem themselves, to the detriment of the homeowner and unnecessary risk to themselves.

As an aside; the jokes about it quickly getting to the point that safety personnel are required to obtain written permission before taking action on behalf of a resident... well, sometimes it seems like that is what it is coming to. If you don't see the irony in that, then obviously you don't have to deal with a dozen shithouse lawyers and Junior Perry Masson wanna-bes at YOUR job on a daily basis.

Besides, EVERYONE doesn't hate cops. At least your sister doesn't. :wow

[USARMworker]

Originally posted by motorman4life
...EVERYONE doesn't hate cops. At least your sister doesn't. :wow

BWaahhahaahahaaa!:rofl

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by motorman4life
Dude, 1) Dragon is a Fireman. Don't pin the "mockery" you were apparently responding to on us LEOs... we don't claim him (...most of the time).

http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/187/b/c/polite_mockery_by_birdwatcher004.jpg

[JPM]

Originally posted by silverbelt
You LEO's continue to make a mockery of homeowners property. Just a matter of time before someone makes you pay.

I guess you feel you have the right to do anything hiding behind your fucking gun and badge.

No wonder everybody hates cops :rolleyes

When you go by the LAW and CONSTITUTION there is no reason to hide behind a gun a badge. And no worries for having to "Pay" in your words because everything done was legal. It's your choice to believe in the ACLU, and they even help people once in a while, but please know the laws before you spout your rhetoric.