Analyze this crash.

[stan23]

http://www.dailymotion.com/novattitude/video/xgb2i_ducati-996-vs-bimota-sb8r

Just fast forward to the end to see the crash.

I hope the rider is ok.

That Bimota looks very nice.

[strega]

target fixation, then too much front brake?
given how much they cross the yellow line, they're lucky...

[Enchanter]

Both of them were taking crappy lines through out the entire video (early apexing leads to running wide). It finally caught up with the Bimota rider.

[Nick]

Jesus. Trading paint on public roads is never a good idea.

[BaSSiUsMaXiMouS]

hes lucky he hit that barrier or he woulda went for a long fall

[Nick]

Get him off that ledge! If he passes out he's going to tumble down that hill!

[Tyke]

Originally posted by Nick
Get him off that ledge! If he passes out he's going to tumble down that hill!


Funny, my wife just walked in right as the crash happend, and thats the first thing she said...........

Imedeatly followed by "No kids for him then" :teeth

[slydrite]

Originally posted by Enchanter
Both of them were taking crappy lines through out the entire video (early apexing leads to running wide). It finally caught up with the Bimota rider.

negative......lines were plenty good enough for 10mph less corner speed......cause of crash? easy......going waaaaaaaay too big on public roads

[Yody]

I observed a few things

1. going track speeds on the street and using both lanes but not all the time

2. target fixation

3. bad line, went in too early.

You could see he went turned in too early and then he wanted to bring the bike back up but realized it the turn wasn't finished, started leaning in again and then target fixated on the rail. Oh and did you hear? He broke his back 2 months earlier

[Stormdragon]

Sure, I can analyze that one easy: Even Italians with leathers and expensive bikes can qualify for Squid status. :teeth

[fred-dogg]

Crazy ass shit for the streets period!!!
Take that shit to the track..

[Ratters]

Originally posted by fred-dogg
Crazy ass shit for the streets period!!!
Take that shit to the track..

Exactly. Man, that poor Bimota. :( Glad the guy's OK though. Was that from one of those British bike mags?

[ratpick]

Analyze this crash.
He ran out of skill.

[Enchanter]

Originally posted by slydrite
negative......lines were plenty good enough for 10mph less corner speed......cause of crash? easy......going waaaaaaaay too big on public roads

Huh? Yes they were going too fast for public roads, but I stand by my original statement that they were all over the road. Surviving hauling ass on public roads damn near requires late apex's. He ran wide due to a combination of speed and turning in too early.

[MackeyStingray]

Was that from one of those British bike mags?heh, fast bike guys. that's an old video.

[slydrite]

uhhhhh......whatever.....the idea is that a later apex, requires a later and therefore slower turn in SPEED............they were turning in early in many corners, because they were going way too fast

again, what caused the crash was speed, not line, if one takes that exact same line with just a few less MPH, they don't run wide and crash.....

IOW, one is cause and the other is effect


*edited for confusing myself and others for leaving out the word "speed" after "slower turn in"*

[Ratters]

Originally posted by MackeyStingray
heh, fast bike guys. that's an old video.

That's what I thought. They had the video of going to the motogp too. And crashed in that one too. You'd think they'd learn.

[MackeyStingray]

the idea is that a later apex, requires a later and therefore slower turn inhm...when i late apex, i'm turning in faster than i am when i'm early apexing.That's what I thought. They had the video of going to the motogp too. And crashed in that one too. You'd think they'd learn.it's not a proper fast bikes video unless someone crashes :D

[slydrite]

Originally posted by MackeyStingray
hm...when i late apex, i'm turning in faster than i am when i'm early apexing.

*sigh*

this is the problem with this site and the web in general.....so much misinformation....

I shouldn't even bother and normally I don't, but here ya go:

the max corner speed for ANY vehicle on wheels can be mathematically determined this way:

(V = R)squared, V represents velocity and R represents radius IOW, the bigger the radius, the faster you can go, that's why drag racers only go straight.....the full formula is actually slightly more complex and takes into account the grip of the tires and surface and other shite, but for simplicity's sake, let's leave it at that

BY DEFENITION THEN, an early turn in gives you a bigger radius from turn in to apex, after that it could be a problem depending on how one deals with it....

a true later turn in is a SMALLER RADIUS TURN, from turn in to apex, but then you get to stand the bike up sooner, and therefore get to full throttle sooner, IOW, you sacrifice entry speed for superior exit speed......

if you think I don't know WTF I'm talking about, then WHAT EXACTLY IS THE POINT of a late apex in terms of speed and lap time?!?!!?

I'll tell you, it's called slow in, fast out, that's the point of a late apex

[squid vicious]

Neal, a late apex requires a quicker "turn in" than an early apex. it's the reason most noobs early apex...they can't get the bike leaned over quick enough so they start the turn earlier.

An early apex doesn't mean a bigger arc....quite the opposite. When you early apex, you end up pointed the wrong way at the end of the turn and have now effectively turned your constant radius turn into a decreasing radius.

Late apexing does the opposite...you wait...wait...then turn in quick and it turns your corner into an increasing radius arc...which is faster and safer.

[slydrite]

you bring up an excellent point, which is semantics and lost in translation.....

you're talking about the action to get the bike leaned, I'm talking about vehicle speed or wheel speed and that may be what Mackey's talking about too.......

I think I shouldn't have had that double latte at 7pm, cause mebbe I too wound up.......

[slydrite]

Originally posted by squid vicious

An early apex doesn't mean a bigger arc....quite the opposite. When you early apex, you end up pointed the wrong way at the end of the turn and have now effectively turned your constant radius turn into a decreasing radius.

ok, this is absolutely the last thing I'll say about this and I'll preface it by saying, I know what you're trying to say AND that you missed the part when I said that the early turn in increases the radius FROM TURN IN TO APEX

take a look at this pic......clearly, you can visably notice what they're calling the "constant radius" , which would be the same as an "earlier" turn in, is a bigger radius from turn in to apex
and the "late" deal is a smaller radius from turn in to apex....the payoff is after the apex

Originally posted by squid vicious
Late apexing does the opposite...you wait...wait...then turn in quick and it turns your corner into an increasing radius arc...which is faster and safer.
"increasing radius arc"or bigger radius would be from the apex to the exit only.....from turn in to apex, it's a smaller radius.....

trust me on this Brian.....I made a decent living for many years teaching this shit.......and I know that some of this is just confusing terms and misunderstandings.......

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/189/438/2906296-lateline.jpg

[Hoologan]

I like when the cyclists ride by after the crash. I can hear them from here. "HA HA MOTHER FUCKERS!"

[squid vicious]

ahhh. yes, lost in translation.

The reason we are so adament about touting the late apex is it's POST apex that most MC issues arise.

[280SQUAGGLER]

i had to stop never finished the whole video ..so missed the crash ...
Couldnt watch anymore ..those were some CRAPPY lines, and whats up with the on and off again on the throttle.... I guess they dont believe in being smooth .... uumm not too sure aboutt he finger covering the front brake lever...

Since i couldn't witness anymore ... i hope the guy that crashed is okay

[Critter]

Originally posted by MackeyStingray
Iit's not a proper fast bikes video unless someone crashes :D

+1000 :laughing

[Holeshot]

Couldn't tell a whole lot about the lines...who knows what the road surface is as well. Perhaps those are the best lines for the road condition.

Anyway, you'll see him comit to the corner and them it seems he gets on the gas a tad early (he was doing this the ENTIRE video) and realizes the bike isn't steering anymore (duh...he got on the gas a tad too hard before he had the bike pointed).

How could he have saved himself once in trouble? Loosen the inside arm and drop some weight inside and look where you want to go. I'd bet some serious money the inside are locked when he realized the turn was a double apex.

Bike's stop steering when that inside arm is locked.

[nweaver]

Analysis: Easy

The riders are looking to win a Darwin Award.

[DataDan]

I think the Bimota rider was distracted by the pickup parked on the outside of the turn and lost the concentration he needed to keep it on the road. His line didn't seem any worse than those in the preceding 8 minutes, and the turn looked makeable at the speed he was going. The less excusable crash is the Ducati's. He was just following too close to avoid being caught up in the crash in front of him. Yet another of many reasons to keep your distance in the twisties.

I'm bookmarking that for the next time some Brit goes on about their superior licensing and training requirements. Bullshit. Tards is tards. You can tier them, train them, dress them up in fancy leathers, and put them on $20,000 motorcycles, but it obviously doesn't prevent them from riding like idiots. And the Bimota rider had broken his back just two months earlier???

[spawn350]

Too bad this guy didn't do a header off the cliff. Considering a broken back didn't teach him anything he is bound to kill someone else sooner or later. I hate riders like this!

[Yody]

Sounds like a bunch of haters in this thread :|

[fezzick]

High-range stupidity, caught on tape. Fools.

[zeefrenchspy]

Best part of the whole video?

"Just what you need... when you only broke your back two months ago... a 996, right up your arse"

Brilliant scripting!!

[Coffae]

Definitely lines were too straight for the street. A wider apex would make them slower, but they would have a better angle to see what's around the next corner. They may even have been able to go faster by seeing where they were going. Wait... That would be a bad idea given the speeds they were risking.

I agree there was some target fixation. Thank goodness it was the wall and not the cliff.

The thing they did best that day was protect up.;)

[com3]

"robs bolls."

[redline]

...hope the achy bowls are okay.

weird, they spend, like half the video in the opposite lane, yet he ends up going off the road on the right.

crash is at appox. 8:20 after they reach "world cup" speed.

[nd2drag]

Is this from an actual video or video series?

[com3]

Originally posted by nd2drag
Is this from an actual video or video series?

Fast Bikes. look for a video called "How to Wheelie and Influence People." there's also a part 2. british bike mag makes those vids. ewin mcgregor narrates em. :thumbup

[yella600rr]

You guys he crashed because he target fixated on the smok'n hawt chick that was riding the bicycle on the right of the screen.

Go back and look and you will see a blond wearing a red bikini and the string was coming undone on her top.

[brichter]

Asstard fuckhattedness! :laughing

But, not :laughing about the crash.

[Zachary]

Its pretty obvious, dude went wide, and went into the gravel. Why would you be riding like that anyways? I saw them come within inches of shit they shouldnt be near, at least 20 times. Crossing lines, cars, people, bikes, etc. Hopefully they will learn to go to the track after that.

[rumpofsteelskin]

This highly educational video should be retitled "What Not To Do When Riding On Public Roads." These guys are trying to sustain a pace that does not take into account the enormous number of variables that can come into play on a public road, from gravel to deer to flocks of bicyclists. It's a huge risk to themselves and others. Late apexing would've kept the crasher from going wide, but not at the speed he was going. They could've taken it down 2 or 3 notches and still have been going fast enough for hooliganistic hijinks but slow enough to allow themselves wiggle room when encountering random crap in the way.

That poor Bimota. :(

[VTRZA]

Jesus christ...only I could be dumber than that! dicing it up with your buddy at warp 10 on a narrow ass road filled with cyclists?