Cage Q's

[Mike T]

Hey LEOs and informed riders, i got a cage question for you. I was wondering if its illegal to drive in a gutted car. When i say gutted, i mean like only the rear passenger area. I drive a hatch and was wondering if its illegal or not. Thanks!

-Mikey

1st pic is an example....non-gutted

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/190/167/2918541-img_2875.jpg

[Mike T]

and if its legal if i drive it like this...:


and oh yeah...for all the LEOs evaluating my car for illegal stuff...i took down all the things hanging on my mirror...the car is stock besides an exhuast (which passes Smog and decibels limit)...

just wondering....thanks for any help!

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/190/167/2918543-img_2870.jpg

[Junkie]

As long as all emissions equipment is still there, it isn't too loud, and safety equipment is still there for all passengers who are in the car I don't see what the problem could be. Of course, if you do get pulled over it may prompt more investigation. It's possible it would be enough for a hood pop, but your exhaust is probably enough for that by itself.

I got a ride in an AE86 with no real interior one time, and nothing came of it. Of course, I also didn't find out that it wasn't street registered until I was 30 miles away and it was my only way of getting back. It also didn't help that the guy locked his keys in the car so he had to remove one of the back windows to get back into the car, and when we were standing in a restaurant parking lot with the window in hand a cop rolled up. looking back, I'm very glad that nothing ended up happening, because there were so many things that could have gone wrong.

for the LEOs: lets say you pull someone over late at night in the middle of nowhere (lets say 20 miles from the nearest town) because the car isn't registered. If the car is to be impounded, and the driver arrested (idk if driving an unregistered car gets the driver arrested, so it might be for something else), what would end up happening to any passengers in the car who hadn't committed any crimes?

[Mike T]

Originally posted by Junkie
As long as all emissions equipment is still there, it isn't too loud, and safety equipment is still there for all passengers who are in the car I don't see what the problem could be. Of course, if you do get pulled over it may prompt more investigation. It's possible it would be enough for a hood pop, but your exhaust is probably enough for that by itself.

yeah...engine is stock and all..ive had LEOs come up to me and squeezed my stock intake tube and asked me if it was modified...had a giggle and told him its stock...i actually like talking with LEOs who are nice about everything and very calm. and the exhuast is a deep tone exhuast, not one of those loud ass shrills that can make you deaf 50 ft away. as for the hood pop, its like an automatic thing when i get pulled over. and majority of the time, they said they pulled me over because of the exhuast. but my car is 100% street legal...and i got the papers to prove it...it passes smog with flying colors :teeth

[RolnCode3]

I'd think you're driving a stripped 10851 to go dump it!

[Junkie]

Originally posted by RolnCode3
I'd think you're driving a stripped 10851 to go dump it! of course that might be an early guess, but if the car isn't reported stolen and is registered in your name nothing would come of it right?

[Mike T]

^i got all the papers on me...ive had LEOs thinking i was driving a stolen vehicle...but i'd kindly show him the papers showing its mine...

[JPM]

I have seen and stopped ones like it before (For moving violations, not for the missing back seat). As long it does not have safety stuff removed or modified (Holes to let exhaust gasses in, suspension modifications, ect) and there are no passengers since there are no back seats, then its no problem. I know one guy who drives around my area all the time.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by JPM
I have seen and stopped ones like it before (For moving violations, not for the missing back seat). As long it does not have safety stuff removed or modified (Holes to let exhaust gasses in, suspension modifications, ect) and there are no passengers since there are no back seats, then its no problem. I know one guy who drives around my area all the time.

thanks JPM! the seatbelts and all are still there. its just the rear passenger seats and the plastic sides that im taking off.

but what suspension modifications are you talking about?

[JPM]

When people make them low-riders or raise them (Trucks) and you start cutting the frames, adding hydraulics to replace the shocks, cut coil springs, adding ladder bars, ect, are all illegal. And if you don't have back seats you don't need seatbelts in the back (No one can ride back there anyway).

[Mike T]

Originally posted by JPM
When people make them low-riders or raise them (Trucks) and you start cutting the frames, adding hydraulics to replace the shocks, cut coil springs, adding ladder bars, ect, are all illegal. And if you don't have back seats you don't need seatbelts in the back (No one can ride back there anyway).

i got my car lowered but only by 1.5-1.75 inches only...i checked the local laws and my friend also told me that if you measure from the headlights to the ground and its within a specific range (i think 23 inches) then its ok. i think the CVC code for that one is *24008.5.* so is it still ok? Thanks for all the help JPM!

[Nick]

Originally posted by JPM
When people make them low-riders or raise them (Trucks) and you start cutting the frames, adding hydraulics to replace the shocks, cut coil springs, adding ladder bars, ect, are all illegal. And if you don't have back seats you don't need seatbelts in the back (No one can ride back there anyway).

Can you cite a section to back this up, or is it some totally ambiguous and subject opinion?

As far as I've known, you can modify the suspension of a car to your liking so long as it doesn't conflict with 24008 VC. The parts aren't what make it illegal. It's the end result of car parts hanging below the rim of the tire that make it illegal.



24008. It is unlawful to operate any passenger vehicle, or commercial vehicle under 6,000 pounds, which has been modified from the original design so that any portion of the vehicle, other than the wheels, has less clearance from the surface of a level roadway than the clearance between the roadway and the lowermost portion of any rim of any wheel in contact with the roadway.

You can hack up stock springs, put hydraulics or airbags on, run traction bars, coil-overs, strut/sway bars, etc... Just make sure they aren't violating 24008 VC.

EDIT: Here's a good CHP LINK. (http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/streetlegal.html)

[Mike T]

thanks for the link man...ahha ive been in the tuning scene since before 2000 and so many laws are popping up....thanks!

[rumpofsteelskin]

So...can you fit a motorcycle back there? :confused

[Nick]

So he can get his 130hp Honda below 2500lbs and rip off high 14 second quarter-mile passes.

FWD sucks. :twofinger :p

[JPM]

Originally posted by Nick
Can you cite a section to back this up, or is it some totally ambiguous and subject opinion?

You can hack up stock springs, put hydraulics or airbags on, run traction bars, coil-overs, strut/sway bars, etc... Just make sure they aren't violating 24008 VC.



No, hydraulics, hacking up springs and coils, traction bars are illegal. There was a thread on this, I see if I can dig it up.

They are not ambiguous and subject opinion. There are many codes that cover them and also the CCR's (California Code of Regulations). Most officers will not know the complex sections of raising or lowering vehicles. Most traffic officers or officers that specialize it have gone to specific training that is usually put on by the CHP, DMV, San Diego PD, or a combination of them all.

Link to thread with links to all the different codes.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165689

[Nick]

Did you look at the link I posted? I says right on the CHP Website, that the things I stated were legal, if they were installed/operated within the parameters of 24002/24008 VC.

I don't see why CHP would say one thing in their classes to fellow officers, and then say another thing in their website.

[JPM]

Because it's how they are installed. Most hydraulics that I know of have to have the shocks / coils removed and holes cut in the A frames of the vehicle to accommodate the hydraulic rams, and mounting batteries in the trunk, which is illegal. Realize the page you are referring to is a general information page to the public. Is does not list specific sections or alterations that will not make it comply with 24002 and 24008. That's why the catch all that they are legal “If they were installed/operated within the parameters of 24002/24008 VC"

How you can be sure on how legal modifications are by reading that one single webpage? I have been doing this for a number of years, written citations for modifications, and still don’t know all the sections. I have a 2” book for reference and still look things up in it all the time.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by JPM
Because it's how they are installed. Most hydraulics that I know of have to have the shocks / coils removed and hold cut in the A frames of the vehicle to accommodate the hydraulic rams, and mounting batteries in the trunk, which is illegal. Realize the page you are referring to is a general information page to the public. Is does not list specific sections or alterations that will not make it comply with 24002 and 24008. That's why the catch all that they are legal “If they were installed/operated within the parameters of 24002/24008 VC"

damnnnn....well..i still got my shocks and springs..ahahaa Thanks for the info JPM

[Nick]

I'm not trying to compare credentials. I was just looking for a more specific answer than linking me to an online VC. I've got a copy, thanks. I'm trying to expand my knowledge base.

[JPM]

What specific violation are you looking for? As I said, I have a book on just high rider / low-rider modification violations that has many technical specs and reference to the CCR's. There is no way I can sit here and list them all.

[JPM]

Originally posted by Nick
I'm not trying to compare credentials.

Neither am I. I am no way an expert on vehicle and smog modifications. I have just had some more training and reference material that the average patrol officer.

[NorCalBusa]

Originally posted by JPM

How you can be sure on how legal modifications are by reading that one single webpage? I have been doing this for a number of years, written citations for modifications, and still don’t know all the sections. I have a 2” book for reference and still look things up in it all the time.


And that floor jack riding on the back of your BMW looks funny as hell...at least until you deploy it.

[JPM]

Originally posted by NorCalBusa
And that floor jack riding on the back of your BMW looks funny as hell...at least until you deploy it.

When in doubt, call a CHP commercial unit. They are the commercial / equipment go to guys!