Illegal?

[gpbmike]

Hey, I posted a video over the weekend and got this comment:

"You are horribly irresponsible. What are your loved ones (God help them) going to think when they see a tape of you dying, and then they'll have to destroy the tape like the family of Steve Irwin? You should learn to obey the law; because guess what: You're Done, Son."

And it made me sad. So I just wanted to make sure I'm not actually doing anything illegal or too terribly "irresponsible."

The video is here: http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profile/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-24842246&user=CybertronR

Thanks.

[RcrBoy]

:wtf I don't get it. Other than that you ride too SLOW


:loco Mark :loco

[Junkie]

Well, you moved over awfully late for your exit, which was clearly illegal (I believe the line turns solid white a while before that). You also were in the right lane until after it turned solid white on the offramp. Other than that, I don't see anything illegal there - it's possible you were speeding at some time, but it's difficult to see the speedometer and I'm sure you can figure that out yourself.

Did you signal for all of your lane changes? I somewhat doubt it, and you are legally required to. However, none of them looked too horrible to me.

[petehed]

well, your speedo is broken... I think that might be illlegal.


but other than the crazy exit, looked like fun. nice narraration and I *did* like the song.

[Ironbutt]

Great video.. Yeah, what was up with that exit? Looks like something I would do.

[Ironbutt]

Great video.. Yeah, what was up with that exit? Looks like something I would do.

[mjj]

Originally posted by Junkie
Well, you moved over awfully late for your exit, which was clearly illegal (I believe the line turns solid white a while before that). ...

Nothing wrong with crossing a solid white is there?

[Junkie]

Originally posted by mjj
Nothing wrong with crossing a solid white is there? I had always been told that it wasn't legal, why else would there be signs saying "right lane must turn right' where the solid line starts?

[gpbmike]

Thanks guys. My speedo isn't broken, you just can't really see it. Actually the light on it is broken so I can't see it when it's dark. But that's different.

And actually, my turn signals are broken too. I'll get that fixed soon.

[saizai]

Could someone please cite code that says that crossing a single white line is ever different from a simple lane change?

AFAIK solid white just means "you're about to actually turn off this road". Yellow, or double lines, are the only no-cross.

[splat]

To be honest, I didn't watch the video. Not much of it anyways.

In the minute that i did, you did break the law.

Crossing a solid white line, illegal.

Failure to yield, (your light turned green, but the other 2 cars were already in the intersection before their red, they have the right of way)

Failure to signal AND unsafe lane change (on the bridge or whatever, 2 lanes in about 1.5 seconds) and lane straddling

Instruments not properly working (to keep mileage low when you sell it, right?).

Honestly, if i saw you i'd cite you. It'll save a life, even if it's not yours.

and Saizai, difference between solid white and solid yellow means nothing except when you cross a solid white, and there's a traffic collision (tc) you'll only get/be sideswiped.
If you cross a solid tellow and there's a tc, you'll be in a head on collision. Otherwise they're both the same.

[gpbmike]

Originally posted by splat
To be honest, I didn't watch the video. Not much of it anyways.

In the minute that i did, you did break the law.

Crossing a solid white line, illegal.

Failure to yield, (your light turned green, but the other 2 cars were already in the intersection before their red, they have the right of way)

Failure to signal AND unsafe lane change (on the bridge or whatever, 2 lanes in about 1.5 seconds) and lane straddling

Instruments not properly working (to keep mileage low when you sell it, right?).

Honestly, if i saw you i'd cite you. It'll save a life, even if it's not yours.

and Saizai, difference between solid white and solid yellow means nothing except when you cross a solid white, and there's a traffic collision (tc) you'll only get/be sideswiped.
If you cross a solid tellow and there's a tc, you'll be in a head on collision. Otherwise they're both the same.

Hey thanks. I didn't know crossing the solid white was illegal. I see several bikers do that on the offramp every day when I casual carpool so I assumed its legal.

Also the video is sped up to 2x speed. It actually takes me 15-20 min to get to SF on the bike, not 7.5, that'd be a little ridiculous. So the two lane changes in 1.5 seconds is 3 seconds. Don't know if that makes a difference or not. I didn't feel like it was particularly fast. But I'll slow it down in the future.

And a final note, I'm not sure where the idea that my speedometer/odometer was broken came from. I just watched the movie again and could see the needle moving just fine. And it's counting mileage fine as I use that to figure out when I need to get gas.

Again, thanks for all the feedback. I started using the camera to become a better rider. :teeth

[Traq]

Crossing a single solid lane line is not illegal in and of itself. It would be the black on white regulatory sign posted where the solid lane line is that would make it illegal.

A "Right Lane Must Exit" sign is typically posted at the start of the solid line. Crossing it after that sign is an infraction. Although I doubt you would be cited for crossing unless you're doing so in order to get in front of backed up traffic at the last minute.

Another sign you might see would be "Stay In Lane"... Again, its a violation of the sign, not the stripe itself.

My understanding anyways.


21461. (a) It is unlawful for a driver of a vehicle to fail to obey
a sign or signal defined as regulatory in the federal Manual on
Uniform Traffic Control Devices, or a Department of Transportation
approved supplement to that manual of a regulatory nature erected or
maintained to enhance traffic safety and operations or to indicate
and carry out the provisions of this code or a local traffic
ordinance or resolution adopted pursuant to a local traffic
ordinance, or to fail to obey a device erected or maintained by
lawful authority of a public body or official.

[Junkie]

I was the first one to say something about your speedometer, and what I meant wasn't anything about it. I could see that it moved perfectly fine. I meant that you might have been speeding, but I couldn't see the markings on the speedometer and therefore couldn't tell, but that you can easily tell if you were speeding.

[zeefrenchspy]

the commentaries where the best part of the video! Riding didn't seem too crazy, other than the last minute exit.

[SpeedyCorky]

oh wow that video is in 2x speed !?!?!? i guess kinda obvious now that you say so. but yeah, seeing it in 2x makes it seem A LOT more unsafe, as your appear to be passing other cars so quickly, when in real time, its not so bad at all.


damn, if my mom saw that and thats how i said i usually ride, she'd prolly give me a hug for being so 'safe'. seriously.

anyone that tells you that you were 'being crazy' 'gonna die soon' :blah

thats some pretty regular, if not low-key riding, for a sportbike - even at 2x speed it doesnt even look that fast.


and yea, the commentary was the best part haha while leaning in the onramp, "Meh, i've seen lower" :laughing


EDIT: just watched the whole thing, yea still feel the same way, but that little offramp last minute stunt was pretty squiddy... other than that tho...

[czarb]

Funny vid. Honestly, after reading your first post, I thought I was in stock for the "Ghostrider" treatment...

[mnb]

Crossing a solid white line is illegal. Double solid lines (nearly always yellow) is also illegal, but remember why it's double?

Because it's illegal for BOTH sides to cross. In the case of a solid and a dashed, the dashed side can cross, the solid cannot.

So in traffic going in a single direction, a single solid means... do not cross.

In the case of an off ramp, that's the point at which you're not allowed to swerve back on to the freeway (where the line goes solid). You're committed at that point.

Of course, everyone ignores solid lines, even double yellows sometimes. Doesn't make it legal, though.

[splat]

Originally posted by Traq
Crossing a single solid lane line is not illegal in and of itself. It would be the black on white regulatory sign posted where the solid lane line is that would make it illegal.

To set your answer straight; taken directly from the horse's mouth (DMV's gov't webpage).

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/curriculum/unit4text.pdf

Page 23; First Portion (04.C.10)

As always it's "up to the discretion of the Citing Officer."

Knowing that it's sped up 2x does make a slight difference in some respects, but doesn't make it legal still. And I may have been looking at the wrong gauge cluster, but i saw one move, and the other not so much. I assumed one was RPM (the moving) and the stationary/inop was the speedometer.

Upon further viewing, it seems that you are going either ridiculously slow for the freeway or your speedo isn't fully accurate. But there are many things that play into that that i wont get into right now.

Assuming that 0MPH is set at 170 degrees (6:30 on a clock) and due to the fact that your needle doesn't pass the 90 degree mark (atleast in the short while that i was watching/fast forwarding) or 9 o'clock; it's a tad bit skewed from speed of vid, lack of sound, lack of knowledge (of your specific speedo).

Also 2 lane changes in 3 seconds is still unsafe in the State of CA. DMV says a proper single lane change should take "At least five seconds before you change lanes at freeway speeds." (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs31thru32.htm)

I linked it incase you don't want to believe me.

[gpbmike]

Thanks guys. Okay so to summarize.

- do not cross any solid line
- 5 seconds between lane changes and signal 100' prior
- wait until cars are completely out of intersection before entering

Did I miss anything?

Oh, and I've attached a picture of my speedometer. 90 degrees is ~70mph. So with that in mind I saw I went over the 90 degree mark when I passed that biker near the beginning. So I was probably breaking the law there too. :(

Anyway, thanks again guys for pointing out all the flaws.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/190/469/2926883-dsc_0035.jpg

[Traq]

Originally posted by splat
To set your answer straight; taken directly from the horse's mouth (DMV's gov't webpage).

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/curriculum/unit4text.pdf

Page 23; First Portion (04.C.10)
Read the CVC and not DMV's website.

The section of the DMV manual you're pointing to indicates 21460 is the applicable code. Here's 21460:

21460. (a) When double parallel solid lines are in place, no person
driving a vehicle shall drive to the left thereof, except as
permitted in this section.
(b) When the double parallel lines, one of which is broken, are in
place, no person driving a vehicle shall drive to the left thereof,
except as follows:
(1) That the driver on that side of the roadway in which the
broken line is in place may cross over the double line or drive to
the left thereof when overtaking or passing other vehicles.
(2) As provided in Section 21460.5.
(c) Either of the markings as specified in subdivision (a) or (b)
does not prohibit a driver from crossing the marking when (1) turning
to the left at any intersection or into or out of a driveway or
private road, or (2) making a U-turn under the rules governing that
turn, and either of the markings shall be disregarded when authorized
signs have been erected designating offcenter traffic lanes as
permitted under Section 21657.
(d) Raised pavement markers may be used to simulate painted lines
described in this section when the markers are placed in accordance
with standards established by the Department of Transportation.

No where is there mention of a SINGLE line.

So if you can quote the CVC to dispute what I've said, do it and not some random crap from the DMV. Everyone knows if you ask 5 people at the DMV a question you will get 6 different answers. :rolleyes

I'm not an expert, I'm just posting what I believe to be correct based on my studying of the CVC.

[MVchoppedgsxr]

Its not the speed, he was being passed by multiple cars, its the abrupt, over steared / leaned lane changes and back and forth riding. And watch out for mustang bumpers, that was too close!:applause good job staying alive though , looked scetchy

[splat]

Originally posted by splat

As always it's "up to the discretion of the Citing Officer."

Much like lane sharing.

[Hoologan]

LOL, nice commentary.

[splat]

It's just like there isn't a law outright stating that changing lanes in the middle of an intersection is illegal, an officer can and/or will ticket you under the blank section known as "Unsafe Lane change," same goes for driving across a solid. It's illegal in the face that it's an unsafe manuver that has way too many variable to control.

[CVC 21658(a) incase you were wondering]

[SoarAndEnvision]

+1 Splat - didn't know about that one. definitely good to know.

[silversvs]

Originally posted by splat
It's just like there isn't a law outright stating that changing lanes in the middle of an intersection is illegal, an officer can and/or will ticket you under the blank section known as "Unsafe Lane change," same goes for driving across a solid. It's illegal in the face that it's an unsafe manuver that has way too many variable to control.

[CVC 21658(a) incase you were wondering]

This may be semantics, but.

Simply crossing over a white line is not illegal (no VC section prohibits it). Simply crossing over a double yellow line is illegal (21460 VC specifically prohibits it).

Simply changing lanes in the middle of an intersection is not illegal.

When I say "simply" I'm talking about cruising down the street and there is no other traffic anywhere around you.

What makes these actions illegal, is when they are done unsafely and unsafely is when you begin to interact with other traffic in the area. Then the appropriate VC section comes in as splat stated.

[dan p]

.

[gpbmike]

Originally posted by dan p
I don't know about illegal but at the beginning when you enter the intersection off the traffic light, which was green, you did so sort of quick. I'ld be afraid of getting hit by some red light runner, but maybe I'm just paranoid from driving in SF.

I'm pretty paranoid too. I looked both ways before going. :)

[Rhoadswielder]

that music and commentary really made it great. that exit frightened me though, but i'm sure if i saw it in regular speed it wouldnt be as bad as it looked. i was laughing my ass off when you were behind that mustang though, good stuff! i like watching people's bike commutes to work...its great seeing other rider's perspectives and the sights they see!

[Traq]

Originally posted by splat
It's just like there isn't a law outright stating that changing lanes in the middle of an intersection is illegal, an officer can and/or will ticket you under the blank section known as "Unsafe Lane change," same goes for driving across a solid. It's illegal in the face that it's an unsafe manuver that has way too many variable to control.

[CVC 21658(a) incase you were wondering]
Crossing a single solid or changing lanes in an intersection is certainly not an unsafe maneuver in and of themselves.

You originally stated that crossing a single solid line was an infraction by itself. Please don't try to convolute the discussion by adding other hypothetical aspects to it. You were wrong about it, no big deal.

Thank you, silversvs, for verifying that the simple act of crossing a single solid line is not an infraction.

[splat]

Yes, but he asked wether what he was illegal or irresponsible. At that speed of video, before he stated it was 2x (my computer lags anyways) i'd still deem that pretty unsafe. I guess it's all a matter of the citing officer's pet peeves.

[Traq]

I didn't even watch the video. I was responding solely to the question and statements regarding the crossing of a single solid line. Whatever is in the video is entirely irrelevent to the general question that was asked:
Originally posted by mjj
Nothing wrong with crossing a solid white is there?