Bus Lane Ticket in SF

[czarb]

So before I begin, I did a rudimentary search of the BARF forums (like an ATM machine I suppose), looking for anything remotely related to this issue (Bus lane), so I'll start by appologizing if I didn't didn't find it right away.

So here I am, on a sunny Sunday afternoon, driving down O'Farrell street in SF (from Van Ness towards 4th St). I notice a SFPD Motorcycle unit cruising in the right lane (Bus Lane), and I figure that that's probably ok (since in some parts of the city it's Bus/Taxi/Carpool ok). In this specific instance, it's only "Bus/Taxi"...

The unit (we'll call him Dude for now), continues ahead of me for a block or two, we're both moving about 20-25mph (on my freaking Busa no less). Dude pulls over, I slowly gain on him and I pass him as he stops, remaining below the speed limit.

Dude then hit's the lights, and I realize that he wants me-- I initially figured that he was going to pull out for SDE (some damn excuse) to pull me over and check me (after all, I am going painfully slow on my Busa). I try to signal him that I want to turn right at the next convient light to get out of the bus lane, and the associated traffic, and he tells me to shut it down now.

I stop the bike, give him my license and reg and insurance. He calls it in, then proceeds to give me a lecture about driving in the Bus Lane. I don't argue. He calls everything in, and cites me for "31 TC, Driving, Bus-Lane Only". Says it's no points on my license but he could've got me for a CVC viloation that would have come with a point.

My question is this-- is it defensible to say that I saw the officer proceeding in the Bus Lane without regard to the sign. Are officers exempt from these same traffic codes, especially since if Dude wasn't in the bus lane I probably wouldn't have gone in it? Not to claim entrapment on this ticket, but this does seem like a stretch to me.

Also, when trying to find the bail schedule for this infraction, I am at a loss.

Thanks~

PS-- I've been pulled over in a cage by the CHP and the officer only asks who my insurance company is, but by SFPD they asked for proof. Any reason for the difference?

[07chuck]

Cops are different didn't you know... They get to do all sorts of stuff in the name of justice. I'll be willing to bet it was one of those new Harleys that are supposed to be doing(Pedestrian Saftey... that's what the grant was for) but are now being used for general traffic enforcement...

On the other hand, those lanes are for "buses and taxi's only"....

I regularly ride my scooter in those lanes with no harassment.

You on the otherhand are riding one of the fastest bikes on the planet(and it costs alot). So the motor-officer didn't like your attitude or thought you deserved it on a prophlyactic basis....

Just be glad you didn't get busted speeding through the "School Zone" @ Scott st.

[SoarAndEnvision]

Police aren't supposed to break traffic laws unless there's an emergency / real-damn-good reason to do so. I don't know the citation right now.

Take this to court all the way - this guy sounds like a total ass "turn it off".
Who cares if you're riding a busa? That means its ok to be a dick to you?

I'd LOVE to write your cross examination questions for you... "And what exactly were you doing in the bus lane officer anus-face?"

[silverbelt]

It's a BS ticket. I think the motocop is just in a bad mood cause he has to ride a hardley and seeing you ride a hella fast 'busa just pissed him off even more.

[RolnCode3]

Did anyone consider that there *might* be an exemption for authorized emergency vehicles?

Why does every thread get the peanut gallery tossing their "cops suck" comments.

BTW - I'm searching the Muni codes to see if there is an exemption. If there isn't, then that could probably be considered a mitigating factor...might not exhonerate though.

*edit* SEC. 7. EMERGENCY VEHICLES EXEMPT FROM CERTAIN RULES.
The provisions of this Code, regulating the movement, parking and standing of vehicles, shall not apply to ambulances, vehicles of the Commercial Fire Dispatch, A.D.T. Co. (American District Telegraph Company), American Burglar Alarm Company, Department of Electricity, Fire Department, Fire Marshal, Police Department, Sheriff's Office, Underwriters' Fire Patrol, or a public utility while the driver of any such vehicle is engaged in the necessary performance of emergency duties.

It will come down to what duties he was performing.

[SoarAndEnvision]

while the driver of any such vehicle is engaged in the necessary performance of emergency duties.

It will come down to what duties he was performing.

EXACTLY.

It's not an emergency to pretend to pull over and then pull over a rider.

I have nothing for respect for LE, I almost joined the Sherrif's and I have a few friends in LAPD - which is why I hate dickheads like this motherfucker.

:)

[zombi]

I bet I got this same ticket by the same LEO. In my case, he made some other uncalled for jackassy comments (I just kept my fuckin mouth shut).

it's a bullshit ticket all right. Anybody who commutes through the loin on an MC knows that priority #1 is not to get killed by all the doublt & triple parked assholes (who are never ticketed) and jaywalkers. Which regularly means, driving in the bus lane.

The city should have an exemption on the books to allow MCs in the bus lane. We should make a fuckin petition or put it on the fuckin proposition ballot or something

[czarb]

There should be a petition...

I wonder what the LEO response from the forum will be on this item-- I'm not actually sure that any of the LEOs have to ever deal with this specific issue.

And I found out the the fine for this 31TC ticket is a hundred bucks. Bullshit huh..?

[silverbelt]

Originally posted by RolnCode3
...Why does every thread get the peanut gallery tossing their "cops suck" comments.


Not every thread. You might be surprised at how many people in this forum appreciate and respect the work LEO's do.

However, even cops are human and do stupid things sometimes. The ticket the OP received would appear to be one of these things.

[Meter Man]

It is not a defense to say the cop was doing something illegal/not permitted.

You committed the violation (even if it is a dumb rule) and you will have to pay.


Just like a defense against a speeding ticket because other people were doing it to.

[slowpoke]

Originally posted by silverbelt
It's a BS ticket. I think the motocop is just in a bad mood cause he has to ride a hardley and seeing you ride a hella fast 'busa just pissed him off even more.

It's not a BS ticket. He's enforcing the law. He thread poster broke it. Suck it up.

It's unbelievable that people can't admit they fucked up and need some type of excuse to try and get out of it.

[czarb]

My point being, is that there was some confusion. If the officer wasn't also breaking the law, I wouldn't have been.

On a side note, maybe this is a reasonable defense-- I was lane-sharing in the bus lane. Is a lane-sharing defense applicable if there's no vehicles in the lane? What if I was lane-sharing with the officer (who happened to be a little bit in front of me [by about 500 feet])?

I'm not sure. I'm not angry with SFPD particularly, just peeved that I got a ticket for something that was pretty ticky-tacky. I didn't kill anyone. It's safer to drive in the bus-lane than to split down parked cars and heavy traffic. I wasn't performing some terrible, unsafe act towards any other person on the road, and had a bus needed to pass me, I would've cheerfully let him. The point I was making is that it probably would've been better for the officer to pull up next to me and tell me to get the hell out of the bus lane (a warning), than to stop traffic in the bus lane where he made me pull over (making all the buses have to get into real traffic). There's a certain amount of common sense that seemed to be lacking that day.

On the other hand, maybe it was the Busa. If I had been riding a Vino 50, I bet nothing would've happened to me. Maybe the cop thought that I had a warrant out for me since all Busa owners go 185mph down I-5, pop wheelies while splitting lane on the GGB, and generally piss off other drivers on the road. Maybe this is why he wrote me a ticket....

Or maybe he was just an asshole who had a quota to meet and even if the case gets dropped in February he still made his January quota.

I don't know. But I am, in the interest of public and motorcycle safety, going to call my Supervisor to discuss the matter. I'm not really mad at the cop, just that facet of the law. It's obviously archaine, and can cause accidents. Motorcycles in the bus lane won't make the 38 Geary any more late than it probably already was.

BTW, any LEOs care to chime in on this one?? I'm interested to hear a different opinion...

[czarb]

Originally posted by Meter Man
It is not a defense to say the cop was doing something illegal/not permitted.

You committed the violation (even if it is a dumb rule) and you will have to pay.


Just like a defense against a speeding ticket because other people were doing it to.

BTW, if I can get the MotorCOP to admit that he was driving in the Bus Lane ALSO in violation of 31TC and Article 7 as listed above, in open court, can I ask for an infraction? Who polices the Police? Can I citizens arrest the cop for a traffic infraction, get him a point on his license, and make his insurance go up?

My point is that if I have to pay a hundred bucks, the MotorCOP should have to also. Any more thoughts?

BTW, I don't hate cops. I hate cops WHO refer to me as the Criminal automatically, and don't apply some common sense. So for all you non-criminal-sterotyper-LEOs out there, ride safe, and best wishes~

[wsmc831]

Originally posted by silverbelt
It's a BS ticket. I think the motocop is just in a bad mood cause he has to ride a hardley and seeing you ride a hella fast 'busa just pissed him off even more.

yea, he was just in a bad mood because he was riding a harley :rolleyes

Originally posted by czarb
My point being, is that there was some confusion. If the officer wasn't also breaking the law, I wouldn't have been.

On a side note, maybe this is a reasonable defense-- I was lane-sharing in the bus lane. Is a lane-sharing defense applicable if there's no vehicles in the lane? What if I was lane-sharing with the officer (who happened to be a little bit in front of me [by about 500 feet])?

I'm not sure. I'm not angry with SFPD particularly, just peeved that I got a ticket for something that was pretty ticky-tacky. I didn't kill anyone. It's safer to drive in the bus-lane than to split down parked cars and heavy traffic. I wasn't performing some terrible, unsafe act towards any other person on the road, and had a bus needed to pass me, I would've cheerfully let him. The point I was making is that it probably would've been better for the officer to pull up next to me and tell me to get the hell out of the bus lane (a warning), than to stop traffic in the bus lane where he made me pull over (making all the buses have to get into real traffic). There's a certain amount of common sense that seemed to be lacking that day.

On the other hand, maybe it was the Busa. If I had been riding a Vino 50, I bet nothing would've happened to me. Maybe the cop thought that I had a warrant out for me since all Busa owners go 185mph down I-5, pop wheelies while splitting lane on the GGB, and generally piss off other drivers on the road. Maybe this is why he wrote me a ticket....

Or maybe he was just an asshole who had a quota to meet and even if the case gets dropped in February he still made his January quota.

I don't know. But I am, in the interest of public and motorcycle safety, going to call my Supervisor to discuss the matter. I'm not really mad at the cop, just that facet of the law. It's obviously archaine, and can cause accidents. Motorcycles in the bus lane won't make the 38 Geary any more late than it probably already was.

BTW, any LEOs care to chime in on this one?? I'm interested to hear a different opinion...

understandable, but it does say bus/taxi only...not bus/taxi/motorcycle. If he pulled a gun would you think it's ok for you to pull a gun?

sucks...but it's the fact. amazing how many people know what happened in this situation.

[SoarAndEnvision]

See this is where you have to leverage influence on the judge and this is why I'm a big fan of going to the court room (law student aside)

Yes, as stated above, if xyz are also breaking the law, x being the LEO, is not a total defense.

HOWEVER

First of all, theres always some chance that the cop won't show up - small - but if he doesn't you get a default judgment.

Second - while ignorance of the law is no excuse, you'd be suprised how much leeway a well presented case can get you from a good judge if you deliver it well. By stating that the LEO was there for a long time, and asking him all kinds of uncomfy but brief question - you can say you thought it was ok is an
affirmative defense and you might be able to squeek by on a good day.

There is one part of the code that CAN work for you:

"Except as to buses, streetcars, and taxicabs, vehicles preparing to make a turn and vehicles entering into or exiting from a stopped position at the curb, it shall be unlawful for the operator of any vehicle to drive within hte area....."

You could state that you were a) preparing to make a turn b) preparing to park but mistook a parking space for something else AND that you didn't say anything to the cop because he was very adversarial to begin with and that is mustache was so ugly you lost your command of english momentarily.

lastly, the statute requires adequate posting of signs in the area, you could maybe take photos and see what the distance of the signs are from your point of getting pulled over.

Obviously these not all entirely consistent - so you have to choose the best argument.

I'd go in reverse order - arguing the code is the easiest.

To address the "You mAde A mIstAKe lIve WIth IT PuNk"
- The law is designed to protect us and to serve us. If you know how it works and can use it to your benefit, then your exercising your rights that like 90 percent of other countries don't have.
PLUS - there's only 230950239 other things that go wrong on a daily basis for a LEO to get cheesed that a motorcycle "blocking a bus" and slowing down the flow of traffic.

[czarb]

Thanks for the response. I was still looking for a good comment from a LEO, but in the absence of that, I suppose any advice is good (even if it's from a law student)~

Thanks

[SoarAndEnvision]

Originally posted by czarb
Thanks for the response. I was still looking for a good comment from a LEO, but in the absence of that, I suppose any advice is good (even if it's from a law student)~

Thanks

OUCH - :teeth

That's one of those "man you look so hot now that you're not fat anymore" compliments

it's cool though.... I understand..... *grabs whiskey*

[dan p]

.

[SoarAndEnvision]

golden gate

currently on probation by the American Bar Association - ALL RIGHT!

[dan p]

.

[rumpofsteelskin]

Pppft! :x As your attorney, I strongly suggest you claim that you thought the sign said:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/190/598/2932028-busasonly_001.jpg

[cardinal03]

Originally posted by SoarAndEnvision
See this is where you have to leverage influence on the judge and this is why I'm a big fan of going to the court room (law student aside)

Yes, as stated above, if xyz are also breaking the law, x being the LEO, is not a total defense.

HOWEVER

First of all, theres always some chance that the cop won't show up - small - but if he doesn't you get a default judgment.

Second - while ignorance of the law is no excuse, you'd be suprised how much leeway a well presented case can get you from a good judge if you deliver it well. By stating that the LEO was there for a long time, and asking him all kinds of uncomfy but brief question - you can say you thought it was ok is an
affirmative defense and you might be able to squeek by on a good day.

There is one part of the code that CAN work for you:

"Except as to buses, streetcars, and taxicabs, vehicles preparing to make a turn and vehicles entering into or exiting from a stopped position at the curb, it shall be unlawful for the operator of any vehicle to drive within hte area....."

You could state that you were a) preparing to make a turn b) preparing to park but mistook a parking space for something else AND that you didn't say anything to the cop because he was very adversarial to begin with and that is mustache was so ugly you lost your command of english momentarily.

lastly, the statute requires adequate posting of signs in the area, you could maybe take photos and see what the distance of the signs are from your point of getting pulled over.

Obviously these not all entirely consistent - so you have to choose the best argument.

I'd go in reverse order - arguing the code is the easiest.

To address the "You mAde A mIstAKe lIve WIth IT PuNk"
- The law is designed to protect us and to serve us. If you know how it works and can use it to your benefit, then your exercising your rights that like 90 percent of other countries don't have.
PLUS - there's only 230950239 other things that go wrong on a daily basis for a LEO to get cheesed that a motorcycle "blocking a bus" and slowing down the flow of traffic.

Let me guess, you're in your first year? To the OP, trust me, you don't want to add a perjury charge to your $100 ticket.

Go to court, explain what happened. Explain that you thought it was ok to be in the lane because the moto officer was in the lane without any indication that he was responding to an emergency. Ask the officer if he was responding to an emergency. With no lights or sirens on, and the fact he took the time to pull you over, he'd have to lie to say yes.

Ask the moto officer if the weather conditions were clear, if you were speeding, or if you were driving in a safe and prudent manner other than being in the wrong lane.

Then explain to the judge that you were in the proper lane, driving the speed limit, and only thought it was ok for motorcycles to drive in that lane because the moto officer was doing so. Admit that you made a mistake, that it was an honest mistake, and ask the judge if he can't dismiss the ticket, to give you a reduction for the fine.

When questioning the officer, ask him for the code section that exempts police officers from traffic laws. Ask him for the section that allows moto officers to drive in the bus lane if not responding to an emergency situation.

Of course, make sure there isn't an exemption for LEOs anywhere in the code for the conditions that existed at the time.

Don't say "I didn't know" because ignorance of the law is no excuse. Just say you were following the LEO's example because you assumed the LEO knew the law and wouldn't be riding in the bus lane if it wasn't legal for motorcycles to be in that lane.

[czarb]

UPDATE:

I've got my court appearance today (from a ticket on 1/14/07) (Courtroom A @ 3pm for any of those who are interested), and I had another brilliant idea-- there's something about the diamond that bugs me. I looked up and down the CVC, and the Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) for California, and I couldn't find anything indicating what exactly the "diamond" in the street means. If the state says that it means lane restriction for HOV, wouldn't that exempt motorcycles, buses and taxis alike (jitneys as well)?

Just a thought...

[Factor5]

You'd think that wouldn't you? I got in your EXACT same situation(Moto LEO was in bus lane and I followed which led to me being pulled over. I was downtown, Market street) and I asked the LEO about the diamond and exempting motorcycles. He said it didn't apply to us in the bus lane. Anyways, I just took the ticket and paid it.

[svclee]

I would go to court and ask for a reduction in the fine. Also Is a 100.00 ticket worth your time to go to court? I understand how this could piss you off but for me to go to court, fight it, and whatever else is included in doing this is not worth my time for a 100.00 ticket. Ill just remind myself not to ride in the bus lane again.

[mbsv]

diamond = restricted. could be anything--HOV, bus only, motorcycle only, firetruck only, bicycle only.

no i have no idea where that's defined.

[czarb]

Update: Went to 850 Bryant, Courtroom A for my araignment. Before they asked me for my plea, the clerk told me it was dismissed. Turns out that 100 bucks is probably too cheap for the judge to deal with too....

[Burner]

Originally posted by slowpoke
It's not a BS ticket. He's enforcing the law. He thread poster broke it. Suck it up.

It's unbelievable that people can't admit they fucked up and need some type of excuse to try and get out of it.
It's called SETTING THE EXAMPLE. The officer obviously wasn't engaged in an emergency, so he was breaking the law as well and then gave him a ticket for breaking the same law. What kind of law enforcement is that? He wouldn't have even gone in the lane if he didn't see the officer there, who SHOULD have been setting the example of following the law. If it was an emergency, I'm sure the officer would have been code 3 and definitely wouldn't have had time to pull him over. The rider would not have thought it was ok to go in the lane if he saw lights and heard sirens. Looks like it all worked out in the end, case dismissed.

[supertireguy]

Another possible defense would be to argue that the bus only lane has confusing markings that serve to ensnare motorcycles.

Most every roadway in California marked with the diamond sign can be used by high occupancy vehicles (HOV) carpools, taxis, buses and motorcycles.

When you saw the diamond lane insignia on O'Farrell and you were riding a motorcycle you thought it was reasonable to use that lane. Sounds confusing to me.

Your bail amount may vary.

Trial by written declaration works. Give it a try.

[deav]

im always confused by this as well. however, in many parts of the city, there is a sign stating 'bus only' lane is only effective during certain hours, and excluding weekends.

[cardinal03]

Originally posted by czarb
Update: Went to 850 Bryant, Courtroom A for my araignment. Before they asked me for my plea, the clerk told me it was dismissed. Turns out that 100 bucks is probably too cheap for the judge to deal with too....

congratulations!

[Peptile]

Ouch... I should have read this thread before Sunday!

I got a phat ticket at almost the same spot Sunday morning around 10am on Ofarrell and Powell. I was taking my lady friend down to the train station (4th and king) and we were going to be cutting it close so I was in a hurry. The bus lane was filled with taxi's and as always the normal lane was backed up so I was lane splitting/weaving back and forth between the two lanes. Got pulled over and written up for lane changes without using a signal and being in the bus only lane.

Ontop of that I didn't have my wallet with me (just going to the train station, didn't expect to spend any money) so they also tagged me with no license, insur, or registration. Luckily those are all correctable.

[czarb]

I'd tackle the correctable violations first, then schedule and arraignment. It might end up dropped after all.

BTW: Was it a moto cop?

[EL TJ]

Originally posted by RolnCode3
Did anyone consider that there *might* be an exemption for authorized emergency vehicles?

Why does every thread get the peanut gallery tossing their "cops suck" comments.

BTW - I'm searching the Muni codes to see if there is an exemption. If there isn't, then that could probably be considered a mitigating factor...might not exhonerate though.

*edit* SEC. 7. EMERGENCY VEHICLES EXEMPT FROM CERTAIN RULES.
The provisions of this Code, regulating the movement, parking and standing of vehicles, shall not apply to ambulances, vehicles of the Commercial Fire Dispatch, A.D.T. Co. (American District Telegraph Company), American Burglar Alarm Company, Department of Electricity, Fire Department, Fire Marshal, Police Department, Sheriff's Office, Underwriters' Fire Patrol, or a public utility while the driver of any such vehicle is engaged in the necessary performance of emergency duties.

It will come down to what duties he was performing.

Negative ghostrider. CVC 21055 exempts authorized emergency vehicles from many of the Rules of the Road while driving Code 3. However, they are NOT exempt from those rules while not code 3 (i.e., in this case).

Bogus ticket. And despite what SF government wishes, SF is still a part of California and can not exempt its employees from Cal Vehicle Code.

[Junkie]

Originally posted by EL TJ
Negative ghostrider. CVC 21055 exempts authorized emergency vehicles from many of the Rules of the Road while driving Code 3. However, they are NOT exempt from those rules while not code 3 (i.e., in this case).

Bogus ticket. And despite what SF government wishes, SF is still a part of California and can not exempt its employees from Cal Vehicle Code. so when you see CHP moving through traffic at a pretty good clip, no lights on or anything, they should get ticketed?