Sacramento Rider Down

[Diablohtr]

Well this is my first post ever on this website, hate for something like this to be my first but it is.

On my way home from my girlfriends I saw the after math of a bad bike wreck; the bike in pieces, the front split from the rear. There was a tarp over the front forks and the ambulance was still there, so I am assuming the worse.

Its not clear to me how the accident happened, and how it could be so bad. I mean the roads speed limit is 45. It looks like the bike broad sided the Impala, but thats what doesn't make sense to me. The Impala could only turn right at that intersection, and the bike could only go left from the other lane; however the bike hit the passengers side. If any one is familiar with the south Sacramento / Elk Grove area this happened on Elk Grove - Florin Road between Calvine and Brittany Park.

Very sobering day for me, my first time seeing a bike wreck in person. The day I had just passed my MSF class 4 hours ago.

God Bless Brother, may you find solace with the grace of God. My prayers and thoughts go out to his family. RIP Stay safe out there guys


http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1733/cimg0292yc1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3884/cimg0293yu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Z3n]

Simple...the car pulled out in front of the bike. He was riding down the road, and went straight into the side of it...I'm not famlier with that area, but that's certainly what it looks like...

God be with that biker and his family...

[}Dragon{]

:rip

[Diablohtr]

Z3n, its not that simple....

there is a median that divides the traffic both ways. so the place the where they collided was in the north bound lane, where the car HAS to pull out to the right. the bike was heading south bound and turned into the left turn thing. the car is facing straight, not sure if it was moved or what.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Diablohtr
Z3n, its not that simple....

there is a median that divides the traffic both ways. so the place the where they collided was in the north bound lane, where the car HAS to pull out to the right. the bike was heading south bound and turned into the left turn thing. the car is facing straight, not sure if it was moved or what.

Here's a shot of the intersection:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/195/427/3007900-florinxrobbins.jpg

[Diablohtr]

Thanks Dragon, you beat me to posting that one up. I guess it is possible the car just pulled out straight before starting to turn.

[}Dragon{]

It's really hard to say from the picture- from just looking at (trying to figure direction and speed w/o seeing any skidmarks).

I think the cage may have been makeing a left from s/b onto robbins and the rider was heading northbound (the car was moved post accident- perhaps to block the rider from further injury).

Notice the debris field on the bike flows north.

[Fuzzy636]

Kid was 19... New Gixxer...

He was reported going around 85mph northbound.

Black lady in the car was turning left onto robins, southbound. She apparently thought he was far away and took the turn.

Kim, the rider, was going faster than she thought and t-boned her.

Died on impact. There is a decent 20-30 foot skid mark in the center of the lane. (I drive past the exact spot just about everyday)

She is not being charged with anything because Kim was speeding.

The car is flipped around in the images to block traffic...

His funeral was yesterday...

And another thing, that satellite image is really old. There is a KFC on the lower right side and some construction going on in the top right field.

Elk grove is the fastest growing city in america for a reason... :)

RIP

[Diablohtr]

Fuzzy,

Thanks for the update and the explanation of what happened.

I drive that road daily; actually my house is backed up to Elk Grove Florin off of Brittany Park, so this really hits home for me. I think he and I may have graduated together if he was 19, however I did not know him.

Also, how did you find out about what happened? Was there an article in the Bee of the Elk Grove paper? Thanks.

[Fuzzy636]

From friends of the kid.

There is a guy that rides at the post office... He said a police officer comes in there and told him about it... The cop said he was going an estimated 85mph.

I kind of put 2 and 2 together to figure out the actual collision. Skid mark is going north in the left lane right before the intersection for the left turn on to robbins.

Damage on the car is on the right side, as shown in the pictures... So that is the only way the accident could have happened.


I posted the image and some questions on myspace and got a few replies with his name and age... And the fact he got the bike a week or so before the accident.


And I ride that exact road monday - friday... To work on florin perkins and to sac state university. I actually ride his exact skid mark every time I go by. It is a kinda curved skid mark. Starts and veers right a tad bit... Looking at the car damage you can come up with some assumptions...

The windows are fine and all the damage is low. Judging with that and the skid mark, he locked the tires up and low sided it right into the car. Died on impact. I would imagine 85mph to a dead stop would kill ya quickly.

At least he didn't feel much pain... I can only imagine what would rush through your head the instant he realized it and locked up his brakes... Must be pretty intense...

[RhythmRider]

What a waste... of course death is loss, and the family is probably devastated, but from my point of view I can't help but think that the kid could've lived if he had been more careful and respected the power of his bike. There are times to use it and times to keep it in check, and those who can't keep it in check usually end up painting the roadway red.

Not only that, but if we want to keep riding powerful bikes, we're going to have to make a point of educating people about the pitfalls of careless riding. When one sportbike rider eats it, we all lose.

[HtChic]

Condolences to his family and friends...not a phone call I'd want to recieve.

On another note:

My father (who does accident reconstruction) has cleaned up so many accidents that happened just like this one - biker was going WAY over the limit, car/truck didn't judge their speed to be anywhere near that fast, and bike hits vehicle as they pull out (thinking they have plenty of time).

People do NOT "plan" on someone going that much over the speed limit - 5-10 over, sure, but not nearly 2X the limit. I would dare to say that a majority of the fatal bike accidents my dad has dealt with were caused by nearly this exact type of scenario.

:rip

[RhythmRider]

I don't know about you, but I can tell if someone is going that fast. I won't pull out if they look like they'll be on top of me in a couple of seconds.

[HtChic]

It's very difficult to triangulate a motorcycle vs. a car - and even if you can tell that, I would doubt that you are actively looking for people going 2X the posted limit...and most cage drivers are definitly NOT looking for that - come on, they attempt to run us over when we are going the speed limit just like everyone else.

Even I have been known to pull out in front of another bike (in town) who was going MUCH faster than traffic - but at that time of day (evening) it was nearly impossible to tell that they were moving that fast - and I technically should have had PLENTY of time - they ended up right on my tail.

Sorry, but if you are dumb enough to think that it's okay to go that fast (especially in town and near intersections), you will probably end up dead - people don't expect it!

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by HtChic
Sorry, but if you are dumb enough to think that it's okay to go that fast (especially in town and near intersections), you will probably end up dead - people don't expect it!

+1



---

Smaller objects always appear faster than larger objects.

[Z3n]

I somehow missed this before, when you guys posted the satelite pictures, but damn...my condolences to his family.

This really, to me, drives home the need for more stringent licensing requirements. I'm all for allowing whoever to buy whatever they want, but they should at least have a clue as to what they're getting into...you wouldn't give a kid the keys to an Enzo to start them off, and that's basically what the GSX-R is up to 100 mph. The only difference is...it takes skill and experience to stop and turn on the GSX-R, whereas the Enzo you just turn the wheel like every other car....

Poor, reckless kid...poor family.

[Fuzzy636]

Kids make mistakes...

This is a perfect example...

He, unfortunately, payed the ultimate price...


I bet his parents totally regret buying him the bike now... This is what every parent who has a kid who rides fears...

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Z3n
This really, to me, drives home the need for more stringent licensing requirements. I'm all for allowing whoever to buy whatever they want, but they should at least have a clue as to what they're getting into...you wouldn't give a kid the keys to an Enzo to start them off, and that's basically what the GSX-R is up to 100 mph. The only difference is...it takes skill and experience to stop and turn on the GSX-R, whereas the Enzo you just turn the wheel like every other car....

Tiered licensing isn't a solution; Better training: Make the MSF a 5 day course. Second, have dealers check for license and insurance on new bike purchases.

[Fuzzy636]

Dealers don't care really...

If some 17 year old kid wants a hayabusa or an r1 they won't even hesitate to sell it...

They just want the $$$

[ALANRIDER7]

Originally posted by }Dragon{
Tiered licensing isn't a solution; Better training: Make the MSF a 5 day course. Second, have dealers check for license and insurance on new bike purchases.

Making better training available is one thing. What's truly needed is for new riders to really want it. Some think they don't need it.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by ALANRIDER7
Making better training available is one thing. What's truly needed is for new riders to really want it. Some think they don't need it.

Superman Syndrome :|


Really- I think better training should be mandatory :x

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Fuzzy636
Dealers don't care really...

If some 17 year old kid wants a hayabusa or an r1 they won't even hesitate to sell it...

They just want the $$$

Yep- You're correct :|

(BTW: This accident posted by the o/p could have happened on a 2-fiddy, it's sad to say.)

[snowface]

i was at a dealer when my dad was buying his cruiser a few months ago. a kid came in wearing an icon jacket, jeans, and skate shoes. he was buying a brand new R6 and was in to pick it up. they didn't realize till the last minute that he didn't have his M1 license or permit. he wanted to ride the bike home. he had a buddy with him, same squiddly look (riding a gxsr1000) who was pushing the dealers to just let it go. the dealers were actually really upset about the situation, i don't think they let him take it - they told his buddy to come back and ride it home for him. good people.

i'm a speed freak myself. i love driving fast, and riding fast. if someone had given me the right and the bike during my years from 16-23, i would have killed myself. my dad wouldn't let me get a bike until i moved back from san diego (bad traffic), and was 25 years old. the knowledge i had about traffic dangers just from driving grew exponetially during those crucial years (as it does for most). when i finally did start riding, my brother made me start on a nighthawk 750, which i still have. it's plenty of bike to hurt yourself on, but also very, very forgiving. he made me read book after book on motorcycle safety.

i can't say that i'm the most controlled person, i still speed when i believe it's safe to do so. but situations just like these are the responsibility of us, as riders, parents, brothers, uncles, friends to regulate. a young male shouldn't be allowed near a sportbike (even a 2-fiddy) until they have proven the responsibilty to handle it. it's OUR job to keep this from happenning. some may be ready at 16 to hit the streets on a supersport with control and maturity. but i know that i would not be able to. i still may not be ready. you give a toddler a steak knife, guess what's going to happen. and guess who's fault it's going to be.

my wife is an ER resident at uc davis. these stories come my way more than i'd care to hear (she actually saw this one). it's not always the young kids that take the hit, but the reason i think these specific situations bother us so much is because deep down we know it could have been us, and we should do more to prevent it. licensing, training, laws, regulations... ...all of these things go out the window when testosterone takes two wheels and 100+hp out on a date.

[aszreal1266]

I agree with you snowface. If i had goten a bike even a 250 when i was 18-23 range I am sure i wouldn't be here now. I am glad i waited to get a bike. I have a lot more self controll and common sense now then i did before.

[Fuzzy636]

Hey hey hey...

I am 18 and on a 636... heh

Started on a 500 though...

[aszreal1266]

Im just say for me, I'm glad I waited. Sad to hear about things like this happening.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Fuzzy636
Hey hey hey...

I am 18 and on a 636... heh

Started on a 500 though...

Fuzzy:

You may be mature for your age (:thumbup) and smart enough to start on a 500.

When I was 18, I was getting paid to scrape folks off the road and was mature enough to know that I shouldn't ride then at that age. Two of the firefighters I worked with were on Honda Interceptors (a 500 and a 750) and I would :drool over those bikes.

As long as you know what the throttle can do and can maintain not opening up (unless the circumstances dictate it eg. a track day) it's all good.

Snowface: Some dealers (who have some morals) won't let folks go without a license: good on them :thumbup

[Fuzzy636]

The majority of dealers could care less...

They get commission, don't they?

The more bikes they sell the more mooolla hits their pockets...

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by Fuzzy636
The majority of dealers could care less...

They get commission, don't they?

The more bikes they sell the more mooolla hits their pockets...

You *ARE* smart for 18 :laughing

Everything is connected to the wallet.

I just bought a new GTI and they checked my DL and insurance...

[Bad Dad]

In regards to the lady misjudging his speed, it was also explained that the kid was weaving/passing cars like mad, and he may have just passed a car that obscured his vision of her, and hers of him. I'd bet that is what happened.


As far as dealers being greedy, it's a really tough situation. Unless we are all willing to pay considerably more money when we buy stuff, they have to make money somewhere if they want to stay open.

[sleepingturd]

i think what everyone said about kids riding is pretty true, but from my point of view, i just turned 20, is that you just have to limit yourself? im not the type of kid that straight up wanted a liter bike, cause i know how much power those suckers have. + its just not practical...after riding around on my sv650 for over 1 year and a half it still comes down to the same thing even if my riding skill/experience grew...having discipline on the bike! its just sad that it the kid didn't realize this before it was too late. besides i owe to to my parents to come back home safely.

[snowface]

you're a rare breed, sleepingT. discipline is right. most young guys your age don't have it, and dealers/law makers/MSF aren't going to give it to them.

the only way to prevent this is to discipline yourself, or have someone else do it for you. your parents have done well, and you can do well passing it along to others.

[manila_boy510]

:rip

Condolences to the family.

I believe every rider should keep the respect and fear on their bikes. Accidents happens but they happen for a reason.

Riders :ride safe out there!

[Fuzzy636]

A side note...

They set up a memorial type thing with flowers and what not on the corner at the intersection... There was a huge paper sign held up with 4 pipes (it seems)... Like 5 foot tall by like 10 feet wide...

I am guessing it says memorable quotes and goodbyes and what not...

It rained like a mofo the other day and then was windy as hell yesterday... The sign got all ripped apart... Feel kinda bad... But it's weather... Nothing you can do...

I also saw some workers working right next to it, they actually picked up the piece of plywood all the flowers and such are on and moved it over while they worked... When I came back home it was back in place...

Glad to see they didn't take it down or something...

The skid mark at the scene is only about 10ft long... Not too far...

[John S.]

There is no hard vehicle code rule regarding when does speed negate a drivers responsibility to yield when pulling out of a driveway or side street. As we know, under normal circumstances, the vehicle entering the roadway must yield to oncoming cars before proceeding. That vehicle proceeds under kind of a common sense rule called the "presumption of lawful driving". That is pulling out into traffic thinking everybody is driving lawfully. If the opposing traffic is not and in this case going at a speed that is far above the safe speed or posted speed then the burden of responsibility is reversed. Its not a few miles over the speed limit, its a lot of miles over the speed limit. This is further complicated by as we all know the difficulty of seeing us on our bikes.

Ride like you are invisible to other drivers. Upon approaching any car, pretend the drivers are like shop lifters, they give themselves away either by bodily movements or subtle movements they make with their car.

RIP to the rider.

[Slowmofo]

Just looks like the scene when I left Red bluff last week a car pulled out the gas station just similar to that road and went in fornt and MC on ZX6R just ran into him, not MC fault but it was a sad day and very disturbing to see as we passed by. Hit even harder since i was going to ride my bike up ther but thank god i didnt.

[GhostRider]

Originally posted by Bad Dad
... that the kid was weaving/passing cars like mad, and he may have just passed a car that obscured his vision of her, and hers of him.
...


the other day, on my way home in my cage, i almost killed a rider the same way.

:(

I have to make a left turn across 2 lanes from a turning lane. No Traffic light.

Oncoming Traffic is 45MPH, and usually pretty dense around commute hours.

I stop, watch for a long enough break in oncoming traffic.

after a while i see a break which will allow me to safely go across the intersection.
(Light conditions Dusk, Sun in my back, but people usually driving with headlights)

All i see is two "slowpokes" coming my way, blocking traffic enough that there is a ~ 5-10 sec break in traffic, more than enough room to pull through.

Get into gear, gas, clutch, and - as i'm half way across the intersection i see in my passenger window that a (sport) bike has been splitting between the two slow cars at significantly high speed, and aproaches very, very fast.

The combination of the bike (emergency) breaking, and me accelerating out of the way prevented an accident.

Had i paniced and stopped, the bike would have been sandwiched between me and a bunch of cars. the rest would have been in the news.



So, the moral of the story: Someone got lucky that day, and even us riders, who look out and are trained to look for traffic hazards, often cant see other bikes.

should get everyone thinking!!

[John S.]

good points

[ryong]

r.i.p