View Full Version : ticket help & ?
hi,
i got a citation (21655 vc) last night @4:45 p.m.
in my cage for driving solo in the carpool lane on 880 northbound inbetween "A" street and Hesperian exits. this happened right where the carpool lane ends. i will go back and take pictures of the signage and where i actually pulled over and recieved the ticket. i plan on doing a trial by written declaration. any insight or advice here? also the CHP officer asked about my radar detector and told me it was illegal. is this true? i have not heard this before and thought it was perfectly legal. as a side note, this officer was young and over zealous, in my opinion. hand on his gun, barely peeking near the passenger window and barking orders. during our conversation i had told him the carpool lane ends back about a mile or two and asked him to cut me a break. he said that because i had a radar detector he considered me a "violent offender", i exclaimed WHAT?!? A VIOLENT OFFENDER?!? he quickly corrected himself and said i mean an aggressive offender and that i could contest that in court.
thanks for any replies.
sc1
antarius
03-21-2007, 09:35 AM
What leads you to believe it "ended" a mile or two back? More importantly, were you in the carpool lane a mile or two back?
dogcatfud
03-21-2007, 09:42 AM
Did you enter the carpool lane before the sign that said "End Carpool Lane"?
I live Central Fremont and I work in East Oakland so I pass through that area daily. Cars tend to jump into the carpool lane right when they see the sign that says "Carpool Lane ends 1/2 mile". That's not lawful.
monkeythumpa
03-21-2007, 10:14 AM
What is the fine there? $276 + a point on your record? Ouch.
To fight it you will have to go by what is written on the ticket. Under location should be a mile marker, an exit or some other landmark. If the location described on the ticket is before the carpool lane ends you are going to have to concede. If you can prove, with video or photos or something concrete that you weren't in violation, you have a chance, but you needed to have that stuff when the cop pulled you over. Taking a picture of the carpool lane two days later won't prove squat.
The carpool lane extends to where the painted diamonds stop. Everybody jumps over before that and I really hate it, having a bike and a Hybrid.
Think of it as a convenience toll. And be thankful that I was not on my bike when you did this. I like to screw with single occupant vehicles in the carpool lane until they get out.
dogcatfud
03-21-2007, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by monkeythumpa
having a bike and a Hybrid.
Out of curiosity, why did you buy a hybrid car if you already have a motorcycle?
Originally posted by monkeythumpa
Think of it as a convenience toll. And be thankful that I was not on my bike when you did this. I like to screw with single occupant vehicles in the carpool lane until they get out.
How do you "screw" with carpool lane violators whilst riding a motorcycle?
Don't get me wrong, I hate carpool lane violators but I'm not about to "screw" with a car if on a bike. But that's just me...
thanks for the replies. anyone know about the radar detector?
antarius - because it ended a mile or two back. i will know more today after work when i use my tripometer and camera to document everything. i entered the carpool lane approx where it ends. to be honest, i was not paying special attention to the exact moment that i entered the lane and the exact markings on the road, but c'mon it ended and i entered abut the same place. i don't make a habit out of illegally occupying the carpool lane.
dogcatfud - i did not enter at "carpool lane ends 1/2 mile ahead" sign.
monkeythumpa - under location he wrote "n/b n/o "A" street" which i take to mean - northbound north of "A" street. no mile marker was written, it does say "345" under the "area" box if that means anything.
}Dragon{
03-21-2007, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by sc1
also the CHP officer asked about my radar detector and told me it was illegal. is this true? .... he said that because i had a radar detector he considered me a "violent offender", i exclaimed WHAT?!? A VIOLENT OFFENDER?!? he quickly corrected himself and said i mean an aggressive offender and that i could contest that in court.
thanks for any replies.
No, RADAR detectors are legal (jammers and scramblers are not)... where you may have it mounted *could* be illegal...
A violent offender? GMAFB:hand
RADAR detectors just give someone a sporting chance :teeth
You can't get in the #1 lane until you see the sign car pool lane ends sign and you pass the last HOV diamond.
}Dragon{
03-21-2007, 10:41 AM
BTW- It looks like the last diamond for N/B 880 is just S/O the Hacienda OC.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=hayward+california&layer=&ie=UTF8&t=h&om=1&z=19&ll=37.675363,-122.115709&spn=0.001363,0.003262&iwloc=addr
dragon - thanks for the help! i was only looking at the sign, is the last diamond after the sign? if so, i won't mention that. i am hopeful that with a well prepared and documented written declaration and it being such a close call that the judge would just dismiss it. we'll see, still will have to wait until i recieve the courtesy notice.
sc1
motorman4life
03-21-2007, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by sc1
...in my cage for driving solo in the carpool lane on 880 northbound inbetween "A" street and Hesperian exits...
...i entered the carpool lane approx where it ends. to be honest, i was not paying special attention to the exact moment that i entered the lane and the exact markings on the road, but c'mon it ended and i entered abut the same place. i don't make a habit out of illegally occupying the carpool lane.
I love when people say they were in the right, then say they weren't paying attention... you can bet the officer WAS paying attention. Then it becomes a "awww c'mon I think I was "about" (close, near) right... gimmie a break!"
I hate to flame, but Dude, you are a clown. A typical whiner/crybaby that is not willing to take responsibilty for his actions. If you were in the #1 lane from A St. to Hacienda, then you were wrong. Suck it up. :applause
Cars that unlawfully occupy the diamond lane are a pain in the ass, particularly for those of us that do ride. It is a flagrant violation, quite typical in our "age of me, me, me." No doubt you throw temper tantrums in the line at Starbucks too. It's all about YOU, isnt it?
Oh, and while a detector is not illegal in CA (except for commercial vehicles over 10k#), in and of itself, although it is unlawful to have anything mounted or affixed on your windshield, where it may obstruct the driver's vision or view, other than the rear-view mirror.. this includes radar detector, GPS device, photos of the Pope and reflective/mirrored or tint film.
It is not unusual for a traffic officer to be offended by the open use of a radar detector. Don't expect to get any breaks from CHP or motorcops when you have one on sitting on your your dash.
Like it or not, that's the way it is.
Lastly, your characteriztion of the officer's behavior/demeanor and caution... was to demonstrate what? I don't know what you do for a living, but if 146 people in the US that do your job, were killed last year, you might consider approaching your job with a high level of caution... even when dealing with someone too stupid to realize whether they are unlawfully driving in a diamond lane or not... :wow
monkeythumpa
03-21-2007, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by dogcatfud
Out of curiosity, why did you buy a hybrid car if you already have a motorcycle?
I bought my Civic Hybrid in 2003 and it was not until 2005 that they allowed them in the HOV lanes so that wasn't a factor. I need a car to take the dog to the dog park and the occasional Costco trip. I had a Nissan 6 cylinder 4x4 before which was nice, but there were things I was looking for that the hybrid fulfilled:
* good gas mileage
* small but seats four comfortably
* low HP, I get too many tix
* reliable - it's a Honda
Since it was only $8 to get the sticker that lets you ride in the carpool lane it was a no-brainer. I commute on my bike but the carpool privileges come in handy, more often than you would think.
Originally posted by dogcatfud
How do you "screw" with carpool lane violators whilst riding a motorcycle?
Don't get me wrong, I hate carpool lane violators but I'm not about to "screw" with a car if on a bike. But that's just me...
The most common thing I do is to pass them and turn around and motion for them to get out of the carpool lane. A third to a half actually follow my directions. If they keep driving, then it depends whether I am in a hurry or if I have some time. If I have some time to kill I will slow down to 45mph and keep motioning and signaling. Sometimes I will pretend to try to get over a lane and slow down to a crawl and then decide not to and gas it and repeat. do that 4 or 5 times and it makes them crazy.
When I am at the Bridge Toll Plaza and people are driving in the carpool lane I want them to go through the tolls. There is a 1 in 3 chance that there is a cop waiting on the other side. So if they try to cut back at the last minute I lay on the horn and get in between them and the non HOV lanes so they have to continue. I pretend like it is the only place for me to go.
When screwing with cars you always make sure you have several escape routes and always make sure you have some reserve left in your bike's capabilities. I don't pick on people who make honest mistakes, you can tell the difference, only people who are doing it deliberately.
I have this idea for a sticker in neon orange that reads "I am a carpool cheater" that I put on their window and ride away, but am having issues with the delivery method.
mm4l - thanks for the reply. wow. i always thought you were a fair, objective, and generally really good guy - apparently you think i am an asshat. that's ok.
nowhere did i state that i was in the carpool lane from "A" street to hacienda. i stated that the ticket referenced n/b n/o "a" street. dragon mentioned that the last diamond was just south the hacienda over crossing. he never did see where i entered the diamond lane, he was way in front of me in the #2 lane. i exited the diamond lane to get in line for the 238 interchange and was surprised when he got behind me and pulled me over. i immediately started changing lanes and pulled over to the shoulder and was staring at the hesperian exit sign, where he wrote my ticket. i did not travel that far. i believe that he was enforcing the law after the carpool lane ended. oh, well. i will take that up with the judge. not whining, not crying and i am also not gonna bend over and take like i was from san francisco. i might be found guilty or i might get it dismissed, but i am gonna fight it.
i was just stating the facts regarding what happened, the conversation and the officers attitude. i was not trying to demonstrate anything in particular. i was just hoping for a little objective advice or whatever. the fact of the matter is that he was young and green, apparently full-of-shit that the radar detector was illegal - that was exactly his words, he did not say anything about something mounted on the dashboard, that was not his concern. i told him i bought it at costco and why would they sell it if it was illegal. he said they can sell anything they want. that just goes to show the officers attention to detail and knowledge. it's a two way street, buddy. oh and by the way, when i tried to tell him the carpool lane ended back there, he pointed out the sign for the SOUTHBOUND direction. i told him that was for the southbound direction and he told me i could contest that in court.
now, to address your little rant, prejudice and character assassination:
you don't even know me, i am not a bad or selfish person.
i never go to starbucks - always make my own coffee at home.
anyway, i can really see your prejudice in this matter so i will leave it at that.
also, i do want to thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. i see that you spent some time and wrote quite a bit even if you did treat me like a dick.
sc1
motorman4life
03-21-2007, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by sc1
mm4l - thanks for the reply. wow. i always thought you were a fair, objective, and generally really good guy - apparently you think i am an asshat. that's ok.
...also, i do want to thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. i see that you spent some time and wrote quite a bit even if you did treat me like a dick.
I really just don't have patience for people that want to argue "the facts" and preface their rant with "I'm not sure" or "I don't know exactly" or "I wasn't paying attention at the time.."
You were not cited for intentionally disobeying the diamond lane restrictions. You were cited for the violation, not the intent.
"to be honest, i was not paying special attention to the exact moment that i entered the lane and the exact markings on the road, but c'mon it ended and i entered abut the same place..." was all I needed to read to sum you up. As much as I try to be fair and objective, it does not take much to figure out where you are coming from. Please remember, it was you that specifically asked for "insight or advice" in this matter. That's what I gave you.
"i don't make a habit out of illegally occupying the carpool lane." That was just icing on the cake. Is that like, "Its not an addiction, I can stop at any time!" or "It's not really a habit... I just do it when it suits me."
Yeah, I'm prejudiced. I have zero tolerance for; people that litter, able bodied people that unlawfully park in handicapped zones and diamond lane violators. I'd put those on my list of major pet-peeves. Violators of the above are asshats in my book, 100% of the time.
The fact that you ride a m/c on occasion, just makes it that much worse. As for you being an asshat.. I'll let your own words speak on that.
As for me treating you like a dick... if the condom fits. ;)
I'm sure you'll get over it.
}Dragon{
03-21-2007, 01:49 PM
MM4L- tell us how you really feel :rofl
(somebody didn't have their coffee yet :teeth)
I will say this, the Officer had his hand on his gun: is normal.
Stopping people on the freeway his HIGHLY hazardous.
Yes, if you do have detector (I have one), your chances of getting a break are greatly decreased, because logic dictates; why would you need one if you don't speed? BTW: They are practically useless for LIDAR which CHP is now using- once you are lit up: it's too late :(
monkeythumpa
03-21-2007, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by motorman4life
Yeah, I'm prejudiced. I have zero tolerance for; people that litter, able bodied people that unlawfully park in handicapped zones and diamond lane violators. I'd put those on my list of major pet-peeves. Violators of the above are asshats in my book, 100% of the time.
Don't get me started on litterers. Especially cigarette butts. Why is it so accepted that you can throw a butt on the ground? Look at the sidewalk while you walk anywhere. They are everywhere.
wsmc831
03-21-2007, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by motorman4life
.....
......You were cited for the violation, not the intent.
"......
That concept seems to have been lost a long time ago.
Originally posted by motorman4life
I really just don't have patience for people that want to argue "the facts" and preface their rant with "I'm not sure" or "I don't know exactly" or "I wasn't paying attention at the time.."
You were not cited for intentionally disobeying the diamond lane restrictions. You were cited for the violation, not the intent.
"to be honest, i was not paying special attention to the exact moment that i entered the lane and the exact markings on the road, but c'mon it ended and i entered abut the same place..." was all I needed to read to sum you up. As much as I try to be fair and objective, it does not take much to figure out where you are coming from. Please remember, it was you that specifically asked for "insight or advice" in this matter. That's what I gave you.
"i don't make a habit out of illegally occupying the carpool lane." That was just icing on the cake. Is that like, "Its not an addiction, I can stop at any time!" or "It's not really a habit... I just do it when it suits me."
Yeah, I'm prejudiced. I have zero tolerance for; people that litter, able bodied people that unlawfully park in handicapped zones and diamond lane violators. I'd put those on my list of major pet-peeves. Violators of the above are asshats in my book, 100% of the time.
The fact that you ride a m/c on occasion, just makes it that much worse. As for you being an asshat.. I'll let your own words speak on that.
As for me treating you like a dick... if the condom fits. ;)
I'm sure you'll get over it.
mm4l - thanks for all your help, your husband must be very proud.
Originally posted by monkeythumpa
Don't get me started on litterers. Especially cigarette butts. Why is it so accepted that you can throw a butt on the ground? Look at the sidewalk while you walk anywhere. They are everywhere.
People are lazy!
monkeythumpa
03-21-2007, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by sc1
mm4l - thanks for all your help, your husband must be very proud.
Dude, what does that mean? That you hate gays? If you are going to try to piss off a cop you have to either mention police beatings or donuts; OR BOTH! Try harder next time.
}Dragon{
03-21-2007, 05:36 PM
A tourist asks a man in uniform, "Are you a policeman?"
"No, I am an undercover detective."
"So why are you in uniform?"
"Today is my day off."
HellFyre
03-21-2007, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by sc1
mm4l - thanks for all your help, your husband must be very proud.
Dude, stop being a douchebag. You did something wrong and you got caught. Boo-fucking-hoo.
http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/wahmbulance.jpg
silversvs
03-21-2007, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by sc1
dragon - thanks for the help! i was only looking at the sign, is the last diamond after the sign? if so, i won't mention that.
Jumping on the bandwagon a little late, but......
Based on your statement above, you pretty much are admitting your guilt. If that's the case, why all the drama? I've got no problem with ya taking it to court, but looking at your statements in this thread there seems to be a high probability that you were in fact driving in the car pool lane. If that is the case, is it worth your time and effort to go to court?
silversvs - thanks for the reply and being a reasonable, rationable man.
to answer your question - i entered the diamond lane after the sign that said "end of carpool lane". i never thought to look at the ground for a painted diamond. if the sign says that's the end, well, is that not the end? in my opinion, i did not violate the carpool lane and i am willing to go to court and fight about it, so i will. i may win, i may lose, but i am gonna give it my best effort.
*I think this whole thing is splitting hairs and a waste of our tax dollars. is this really the best use of the CHP's time? seriously if it was that close, why bother? i wish to god that all police departments nation wide would concentrate more on real crime and stop shaking down the average joe. if they ever catch all the criminals and need something to do i hear that the border patrol needs some help as well.
regards,
sc1
*disclaimer: the above mini rant is not directed at anyone in particular. it is just my overall frustration at "the system".
Originally posted by HellFyre
Dude, stop being a douchebag. You did something wrong and you got caught. Boo-fucking-hoo.
http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/wahmbulance.jpg
hellfyre - thanks for your contribution. i think you got a little something on your nose there.
Originally posted by sc1
* is this really the best use of the CHP's time?
Yes. End of story....
You did the crime, now do the time.
}Dragon{
03-21-2007, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Rel
Yes. End of story....
You did the crime, now do the time.
Oh c'mon Rel... you don't think there is a chance that the OP entered the HOV lane after the "end of carpool lane" sign and that all CHP Traffic Officers are 100% correct?
:teeth
To the OP: If you were sure...fight it.
If you weren't paying attention like you stated: Pay it. You screwed up.
BTW: That's a way helluva late merge to get to 238 during heavy traffic:wow
dragon - i specifically said i was not paying EXACT attention, meaning i was not obssessing about it. i saw the sign i pulled into the carpool lane for what, about a mile to pass slower moving traffic. yeah, i'm gonna fight it. win, lose or draw - no biggie.
thanks for being reasonable too, a lot of guys here just like to jump on the bandwagon and get a few quick barbs in.
ok. this thread is played out, so i am gonna stop posting now.
bye.
}Dragon{
03-21-2007, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by sc1
dragon - i specifically said i was not paying EXACT attention, meaning i was not obssessing about it. i saw the sign i pulled into the carpool lane for what, about a mile to pass slower moving traffic. yeah, i'm gonna fight it. win, lose or draw - no biggie.
thanks for being reasonable too, a lot of guys here just like to jump on the bandwagon and get a few quick barbs in.
ok. this thread is played out, so i am gonna stop posting now.
bye.
Good luck on the fight :thumbup
Let us know what happens to you the "violent offender of HOV lanes" :rofl :Port
motorman4life
03-21-2007, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by sc1
dragon - i specifically said i was not paying EXACT attention, meaning i was not obssessing about it. i saw the sign i pulled into the carpool lane for what, about a mile to pass slower moving traffic. yeah, i'm gonna fight it. win, lose or draw - no biggie.
thanks for being reasonable too, a lot of guys here just like to jump on the bandwagon and get a few quick barbs in.
No, what you said was, "to be honest, i was not paying special attention to the exact moment that i entered the lane and the exact markings on the road, but c'mon it ended and i entered abut the same place."
"About the same place" and "definitely entered after the sign/markings" are two different things. It is clear to most here that you are not sure where you entered. It is not about “obsessing” it is about knowing or not knowing. You clearly don’t know.
I know, if I agree with you and tell you to go fight the ticket and "good luck" with your fight, then I'm being objective, reasonable and rational. Sorry I didn't give you the "reasonable and rational response" you demand. Of course, attacking my sexuality, wow... that is the sign of a real winner. :thumbup
I mean, do you really think my gender or sexuality has anything to do with my assessment of your culpability in this matter? Do you feel your juvenile personal attacks somehow devalue my opinion (an opinion YOU requested, by the way), which is not based upon whether I like dick or bush, but on spending day in and day out listening to whiny little bitches (both male and female) that refuse to take responsibility for their actions and tend to give excuses or fucked up reasoning like; "Everyone else does it." "Why don't you go find a real criminal?" "I pay your salary." "Don't you have anything better to do?" "This is a waste of our tax dollars."
Well, I think I can say objectively and without any reservation that you have clearly demonstrated you are an asshat and at the very least, have some severe self-esteem issues. Any first year psych major could easily recognize that in a few messages, you have exhibited serious sexual hang-ups and the persistent use of lower case “i” in referring to yourself, while using capital letters elsewhere, is a significant indicator of classic “self-hatred” or at the very least, some "self-loathing" issues... if you have some sort of medical insurance, you may want to look into professional therapy or self-esteem counseling to deal with some serious latent issues before they become problematic. Seriously.
As for character assassination. I don't need to assassinate your character, you have done an excellent job of character suicide. I am more of a bystander… this (below) is all you, Baby.. :applause
All originally posted by sc1
i am also not gonna bend over and take like i was from san francisco...
mm4l - thanks for all your help, your husband must be very proud..
i think this whole thing is splitting hairs and a waste of our tax dollars...
..is this really the best use of the CHP's time?
..seriously if it was that close, why bother?
i wish to god that all police departments nation wide would concentrate more on real crime...
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/197/276/3039771-a-applause.gif
silversvs
03-21-2007, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by motorman4life
.... spending day in and day out listening to whiny little bitches (both male and female) that refuse to take responsibility for their actions and tend to give excuses or fucked up reasoning like; "Everyone else does it." "Why don't you go find a real criminal?" "I pay your salary." "Don't you have anything better to do?" "This is a waste of our tax dollars."
I was working a 35 MPH street this morning. Commute route where commuters try to stay off the freeway and make up some time. Two cars cranking along at 52, just under my tolerance for where I will cite. Next car is catching the previous 2 and I lock him in at 56. Pull him over and explain that I stopped him for his speed and asked if he knew how fast he was going or what the limit was. He stated he thought the limit was 45 and was unaware of how fast he was driving. He immediately points out that the two cars in front of him must have also been speeding and asked why I didn't stop them. I explained that they were in fact speeding but he was going even faster than they were and was catching up to them. He demanded proof that he was speeding, so I show him the lidar with his speed locked in. He then asked why I wasn't catching real criminals. Then he tells me I only stopped him to generate revenue for the City. Then he complained that he was on a down hill and it was not his fault that he was speeding. He wan't getting a reaction out of me so he went back to the fact that the cars in front of him were speeding. That didn't work so he launched into the "You only stopped me because I'm Asian."
All this grief for one citation.
I wrote 11 cites this morning.
Do the math..................
Originally posted by }Dragon{
Oh c'mon Rel...
He asked if this is the best use of CHP time.
Answser: Yes.
DachWuff
03-22-2007, 04:37 PM
Yeah i'd say it's the best use of the CHP time, infact i thought that was the majority of the job, am i wrong?
nakedape
03-22-2007, 06:00 PM
MM4life, thanks, I need to see one internet asshat owned once in a while as payment for wading through all the other bs (his).
BTW, I intentionally jumped into a carpool lane in the cage the other day a half-mile short. I KNEW I was going to be toast if the CHP was lurking on the shoulder. It wasn't a big transgression, as everyone has to merge on that stretch of road (to the left).
I just wanted/wished I was on the bandit. If you want to use that lane, ride, don't drive. NApe
ALANRIDER7
03-22-2007, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by sc1
i see that you spent some time and wrote quite a bit even if you did treat me like a dick.
mm4l - thanks for all your help, your husband must be very proud.
What the fuck kind of help do you think you're going to get with that approach?????????????
:loser
monkeythumpa
03-22-2007, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by sc1
i never go to starbucks - always make my own coffee at home.
he he.
USARMworker
03-24-2007, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by monkeythumpa
Don't get me started on litterers. Especially cigarette butts. Why is it so accepted that you can throw a butt on the ground? Look at the sidewalk while you walk anywhere. They are everywhere.
Seriously. :thumbup Plus one. :applause Where's mojo when you need it? How often do LEOs ticket for that?
Originally posted by silversvs
I was working a 35 MPH street this morning. Commute route where commuters try to stay off the freeway and make up some time. Two cars cranking along at 52, just under my tolerance for where I will cite. ...
All this grief for one citation.
I wrote 11 cites this morning.
Do the math..................
:wow You let 52 in a 35 go?
Wow, I go away for training for a couple weeks and look at all the fun I missed. :laughing
Originally posted by sc1
*I think this whole thing is splitting hairs and a waste of our tax dollars. is this really the best use of the CHP's time? seriously if it was that close, why bother? i wish to god that all police departments nation wide would concentrate more on real crime and stop shaking down the average joe. if they ever catch all the criminals and need something to do i hear that the border patrol needs some help as well.
As to this statement I will repeat what I have said before. People always say don't cops have anything better to do like catch murders and such than do traffic. Look at the stats for your city. How many murders are there per year compared to how many people are killed in vehicle accidents? Where I work there are 2-5 times more killed in accidents than in homicides. Then look at all the medical bills, injuries, and property damage that is caused by accidents every year; millions of dollars.
monkeythumpa
03-25-2007, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by JPM
Wow, I go away for training for a couple weeks and look at all the fun I missed. :laughing
As to this statement I will repeat what I have said before. People always say don't cops have anything better to do like catch murders and such than do traffic. Look at the stats for your city. How many murders are there per year compared to how many people are killed in vehicle accidents? Where I work there are 2-5 times more killed in accidents than in homicides. Then look at all the medical bills, injuries, and property damage that is caused by accidents every year; millions of dollars.
Hey look at where our priorities are (according to the sensationalist media). We have a WAR on terror and a WAR on drugs yet automobiles are responsible for far more deaths than either of these and they are preventable.
Originally posted by JPM
As to this statement I will repeat what I have said before. People always say don't cops have anything better to do like catch murders and such than do traffic.
To support JPM's point:
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197622
motorman4life
03-25-2007, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Rel
To support JPM's point:
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197622
It is worth mentioning that a lot of new laws are pushed (written or supported) by the insurance companies. Why? Well, they find something that is costing them money and they try to close the loophole or make things safer, maybe reduce injuries and deaths. Believe me, if it costs them money, it costs all of us money. In the form of increased insurance rates and higher costs for goods and services.
Look at all the money you spend each year on insurance. I could use a couple thousand back in my pocket. Couldn't you?
While it is true that traffic stops for petty infractions often lead to discovering major crimes or capturing serious felons; I recently captured an escapee from San Quentin as a result of a railroad gate violation. He was in a stolen car and had a stolen gun that he had used to shoot at CHP about 3 days earlier. Score one for the good guys. The truth is, that is an overwhelming minority of the time.
In reality, like it or not, there is a true need for enforcement. Whether it is citing for expired registration, no front plate or double parking, if these laws are not enforced, then what is the motivation to comply?
The same guy driving on the shoulder or unlwafully driving in the carpool lane is frequently the same guy that weaves through traffic recklessly, runs red lights, fails to yield to pedestrians and follows too closely.
Why stop at a stop sign or red light? Why even consider the speed limit or yeild to a pedestrian in a crosswalk if you know there is going to be no enforcement and perceive no potential consequence? Hell, the pedestrian'll yield.. they'd better!
If you've never heard of the "three E's of traffic safety," please let me explain briefly.
Engineering - Education - Enforcement
If there is a traffic problem, maybe a number of accidents at a certain location, the first thing that needs to be addressed is Engineering. Is there an engineering issue that needs to be corrected? The theory here is that people want to get from point A to point B safely. They don't want to wreck their car and they want to avoid any unnecessary delay. If the signs and lines and roadway surfaces are all installed and maintained properly, then it should help them to accomplish their goal. Maybe there needs to be better paining or signage to help address the issue. Once it is resolved that the location is engineered properly, if there is still a problem, then we move on to education.
Education is pretty simple. We all took the driver's test and should know the laws. If there is an issue that people are having problems with, sometimes we can errect temporary signs or put out a flagman, or do traffic stops to give warnings. We can also use public access and media (radio, tv, newspaper or mailers) to educate people.
Once the powers that be are satisfied the area is properly engineered and it is not a matter of education, then the last tool in the box is Enforcement.
Enforcement works on the theory that 85% of the people out there will drive in a safe manner if they believe doing otherwise would result in bad consequences (accident or citation). This leaves the remaining 15% that will do as they wish, regardless of the possible consequences. Those 15% are the ones that get a couple of tickets (or more) a year... the ones that lose their licesnses for negligent driving (too many points) or can't go to traffic school because they already went within the past 18 months. These are the ones that are not only a danger to themselves, but a danger to all of us on the road. They frequently complain about "petty" laws and overzealous enforcement.
Often it is a matter of maturity. Many outgrow their childish ways and drive like a responsible person. Usually it is after they have totalled a bike (or two) or a car (or two). Hopefully they haven't hurt anyone seriously in the process. Some never outgrow their "need for speed" and they continue to drive or ride like their life is a video game.
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