Head on crash... Two bikes...Redwood

[ZXTOM]

I just got back form a drive up Redwood rd. in my car and came across a bad crash....

There two fire trucks and bout 10 CHP... They had the road blocked....

A sportbike went wide and collided head on with a cruiser that had a passenger.... Dont really know if they were OK but the sportbike looked really messed up.....

I guess they were take'in away by Ambulance..... I hope they will be alright...

Probaly should stay clear of Redwood for a while, they'll be up there really hammering people probaly for like a month....

[eddiemcrider]

if the cruiser caused the accident this thread would have tons of responses by now with alan's token cruiser going down sparking picture.

[schteve]

Wow, another incident..Hate to see that happen..What were you doing on Redwood rd Tom, getting your twisty fix?

Don't forget to put these internals in your fronts..:cool
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7690/ohlinslogose4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[budbandit]

Funny how usually the Immortal Heroes of the Hill fail to recognize that yes indeed their fuckups can and do impact others.

[ZXTOM]

Originally posted by schteve
What were you doing on Redwood rd Tom, getting your twisty fix?

Yep.. pretty much....

Got the car back together.. had to do something.....:teeth


With my bike out for the count....

[schteve]

Originally posted by ZXTOM
Yep.. pretty much....

Got the car back together.. had to do something.....:teeth


With my bike out for the count....

Their was the same checkpoint on 92 and Steve got a fix it ticket like u did...Anyways, i do the same thing when I can't ride ..I found myself going to Hwy 9 and 35 somedays (winter season) to just get out there and pretend ..HAH..Dorks..lol

Sup with all these crashes?..hmmm ..Looks like a long season of this crap..:x

[slydrite]

dear jackholes who can't stay in their own lane to save their lives...please stay on squid filled Hwy9 to be near your own kind....

thank you

[GSXRTrav]

All the riders are in stable condition. I was with them all yesterday. The passenger was with the sportbike. There was 2 ambulances 2 firetrucks and 4 chp's on scene. so there was plenty of help there. i just wanna say thanks 2 the riders and cager that stopped to help us. I know the grilling of the guy is needed but please make sure that you have all the facts before going off.

i know someones going to make a grilling outta me for that but hey, I was actually there, saw the whole thing and have all the facts.

Thanks for everyones concern truley and I'm not trying to be a smart ass with that comment.

hope everyone rides safe

Trav

[slydrite]

Originally posted by GSXRTrav
I know the grilling of the guy is needed but please make sure that you have all the facts before going off.

i know someones going to make a grilling outta me for that but hey, I was actually there, saw the whole thing and have all the facts.


so then....please tell us "the facts" so that we may grill appropriately

[GSXRTrav]

Both Bikes were going WAY too fast and were out of their abilities. The sportbike traveled to close to the DY and washed through the gravel and washed through the line. The cruiser was traveling WAY to quick for his turn as well. He did a full lock up(which problably any of us would have done) and had no control on turning his bike. No doubt that the sportbike should have known better. If one or the other was closer to the speed limit both could have avoided the accident.

Total Squid moves yes. But I think they are the ones that are gonna have to live with all the choices. not any of us. Well if were lucky. All we can hope for is that reality sets in for most of the people that beleive "thats never going to happen to me cause I know how to ride". I know I'm gonna get a grilling for my stance on the subject but It's my stance and my opinion. Doesn't really matter what kinda of grilling i end up getting. but atleast wait for everyone to be healed up and speak up on their own behalf before you go off on them .

Thanks

[froride1]

So exactly how was it the cruisers fault? He was going to fast and got in the sportbike riders way when the sportbiker blew the DY? I guess it's a good thing it was just a crusier and not a truck going to fast. Your friend and his passenger would be dead.

Bottomline is the sportbike rider crossed the DY, therefore it's his fault. Hopefully he learns something from this.

[juha_teuvonnen]

I know that I will be flamed for this, but I will say it anyway. My takeaway is simple: the speed limits are there for a reason. I mean I can make that turn at speed faster than speed limit MOST of the time, but that's irrelevant. "Most of the time" is not good enough for me, I want to be riding so that I can make it "All the time". Given things like gravel, oil patches from previous accidents, other unexpected crap, you just never know. And yes, if I feel that making that turn at speed limit is unsafe given the conditions and my skill, I'll slow down even further.

[GSXRTrav]

You are right Fro. He definatley blew the DY. No if ands or But's. I talked to him about it last night, he thinks he ended up target fixating on the other rider.

juha-
Your problably right your gonna get flamed by someone. But I unfortuantley agree. Everyone always says "take it to the track if you wanna speed" but in all honesty pretty much everyone is not following the speed limit. I've yet to be on a Barf ride where they adhear to every single speed limit posted. We all have to be honest with that one. Be it Car or bike. On the way out of the canyon I had a bike blow right by me after they saw the after math and a car run up behind me for a couple turns as well. I know the sportbike riders not gonna be on a bike for A LONG time and that he and the others learned some kind of lesson out of this. it's just crappy his realization of everything had to be at such a high price.

Ride safe everyone

Trav

[Mondo]

Damn Trav! Hope everyone involved is ok. Did this happen sunday?? I was out there from about 130 to 330 on the supermoto with my brother and some friends. But there was a ton of riders out that day.

Mondo

[trekuk]

stupidity and blame aside, a head on collision at significantly over the speed-limit, perhaps 50-70mph, and they are all still alive.. wow, that is lucky, and good to hear! I guess the bikes just connected somewhat with the riders sliding/flying in separate directions, rather than a perfect head-on crash..?

[DukeD]

I saw the scene from the CV side as well since the CHP made us turn around.

I rode through there yesterday looking for some evidence of what happened and noticed a long straight skid mark in the middle of the lane traveling towards CV. I'm assuming this is the skid mark made by the cruiser. If it was he was smack in the middle of HIS lane and did nothing wrong except try to stop. At the end of the skid mark there were lots of broken plastic bits.

I almost got hit there myself from someone blowing the DY a few weeks ago and coming into my lane, had I been 1 second ahead of where I was I probably wouldn't be typing this today.

We know everyone wants to go fast but if you cross the DY you blew a turn, plain and simple and need to slow down on that turn.

I hope everyone recovers.

[GSXRTrav]

Hey Mondo-

Yup, it was on sunday and everyones gonna be ok. It's just gonna take a while to heal up.

Yup he went through the DY. No denying that one. I've lucked out in that road between other riders and cars blowing through the DY on me.

Needless to say it's a costly lesson learned. Even makes me think twice about riding a lot of the roads

Trav

[Mondo]

Glad to hear everyone is gonna be alright. :thumbup

[GSXRTrav]

Thanks Mondo, much appreciated

[budbandit]

Originally posted by GSXRTrav
The cruiser was traveling WAY to quick for his turn as well.


This is a crock of shit.

Pudboy (with passenger, no less), goes wide and it is the cruiser's fault? I think not.

You should be able to go at any spirited but reasonable pace and not have to worry about assholes who cannot keep their machines on the right side of the road.

Could the cruiser have dealt with this fucked up situation better? Sounds like it, but I have seen enough people target fixate on trees and other crap in a non-life threatening environment to know that when the shit hits the fan that many (most?) people are just going to go stupid like a deer in the headlights of the Peterbilt of Destiny.

Sounds like this guy is your hommie and if he is I hope he is crawling on the floor begging for forgiveness from the cruiser he rammed as well as his passenger, but lets be real clear, when some asshat goes wide over the double yellow there ain't no distributed fault or responsibility - the guy who fucked up is the guy on the wrong side of the road no matter how fun or cool he is when he is not injuring and risking the lives of other, innocent people.

[juha_teuvonnen]

Originally posted by budbandit
This is a crock of shit.

Pudboy (with passenger, no less), goes wide and it is the cruiser's fault? I think not.

You should be able to go at any spirited but reasonable pace and not have to worry about assholes who cannot keep their machines on the right side of the road.



I agree that sports bike is at fault 100%.

Call me paranoid, but I believe that they are ALL out there to get me.

Cagers pull stupid stunts all the time too. Changing lanes, not looking at mirrors while talking on the cell phone, drinking coffee and steering with their left knee, all at the same time. Our survival depends on us being able to get the heck away from all kinds of morons that we unfortunately have to share the road with.

If I am making a spirited turn, I am seriously limited in my ability to change my trajectory. I pretty much have no choice, and a very small cushion for other people's margin of error. I just don't feel like betting my life on somebody else's ability to drive/ride/use good judgment. Being right and dead doesn't do anybody any good.

[}Dragon{]

The cruiser shouldn't have been out in the twisties to begin with...

























:p (I keed! I keed!)



The bike that crossed the DY is the one that caused the accident.

[SuperSixFour]

Originally posted by juha_teuvonnen
I know that I will be flamed for this, but I will say it anyway. My takeaway is simple: the speed limits are there for a reason. I mean I can make that turn at speed faster than speed limit MOST of the time, but that's irrelevant. "Most of the time" is not good enough for me, I want to be riding so that I can make it "All the time". Given things like gravel, oil patches from previous accidents, other unexpected crap, you just never know. And yes, if I feel that making that turn at speed limit is unsafe given the conditions and my skill, I'll slow down even further.

You're never going to be the King of 9 with that attitude son!

[juha_teuvonnen]

Originally posted by SuperSixFour
You're never going to be the King of 9 with that attitude son!

I do not aspire to be king of 9.

When I was younger, and my eyes and reaction times were better, I participated in club races (cars) and rallies in northern Europe. I have a few trophies sitting in storage, collecting dust . I also have a few trophies from the times when I used to compete in aerobatics sitting in the same storage. I don't need to prove myself or anybody else anything about myself. Besides, the only trophies that are being handed out for road racing are speeding tickets and suspended licenses.

You can't cheat the law of big numbers. If you conduct a long enough series of experiments, eventually you'll get the inevitable result.

[DataDan]

The speed limit on Redwood is 25 IIRC. I think it's unrealistic and probably not enforceable--at least in the sense that a survey of normal traffic would find a significantly higher average speed (except in the tight turns).

The rider who crossed the centerline was probably negotiating a right-hander while the oncoming bike was approaching a left-hander, correct? What were the sightlines like for the two? I would expect that the turn is "convex", meaning it wraps around an outcropping, rather than following an indentation in terrain as a "concave" turn does.

IMHO, right-handers like that are, generally, the most dangerous turn configuration. No view of the exit, and improving sightline means moving closer to the centerline, possibly putting you in the path of a haphazardly driven cage. The sportbike rider most likely didn't even see the approaching cruiser (what if it had been a dump truck?). My approach to the worst turns like that (one on Mines Road heading south from Livermore comes to mind) is to switch from "combat" mode to "transit" mode and slow way the f*** down. Limit risk in situations where there's little payoff and wait for a better return in fun at a lower cost in risk.

[}Dragon{]

Originally posted by DataDan
The speed limit on Redwood is 25 IIRC.

On the northside it is 25...

I still remember when only the basic speed law was enforced out there before the 25 signs went up :cry

[masameet]

Glad to read that both riders and passenger survived and are thriving.

Other than slowing down, braking hard and pulling to the right, and maybe not riding on weekends, is there anything else a rider can do to prevent becoming a part of some other rider's DY fuck-up?

I've only done Redwood a couple of times. And it has a ton of blind, hairpin-like curves.

Anyway I've learned that it's best to take such curves wider before the apex, which means a shorter and closer to the right side of the road line. Which in a blind curve makes me worry that I'll take out a bicyclist as I come around the bend.

[fuldog]

Let's add some extra heat on the grill for the sportbike rider endangering the passenger. It's one thing to take chances with your own safety by upping the pace, but to subject your passenger to the same risks is totally irresponsible and selfish.

BTW., Kudos to budbandit ..." like a deer in the headlights of the Peterbuilt of destiny" I haven't read stuff like that since the late Joe Glydon wrote for Citybike. Keep up the good work.

[slydrite]

Originally posted by masameet
Glad to read that both riders and passenger survived and are thriving.

Other than slowing down, braking hard and pulling to the right, and maybe not riding on weekends, is there anything else a rider can do to prevent becoming a part of some other rider's DY fuck-up?

I've only done Redwood a couple of times. And it has a ton of blind, hairpin-like curves.

Anyway I've learned that it's best to take such curves wider before the apex, which means a shorter and closer to the right side of the road line. Which in a blind curve makes me worry that I'll take out a bicyclist as I come around the bend.

the best thing you can do is only ride on the majestic and awe inspiring Hwy9....

like you said, too many blind hairpin turns on Redwood, not to mention gravel, road debris, deer, cops everywhere, endless supply of bicyclists riding 6 wide in the middle of the road and the turns are just plain TOO HARD...

Hwy9 is such an awesome, comforting and cosseting road, it'll make you feel like a much better rider than you actually are, where as Redwood is so shitty and goat like, that it'll expose all your flaws and make you shrink down to a perpetual n00b level of riding....

riding Hwy9 is like sucking on the mother teet, it's so pacifying...

[masameet]

Is 35 anywhere near 9?

[TylerW]

Originally posted by slydrite
dear jackholes who can't stay in their own lane to save their lives...please stay home and take up another hobby.

fixed.

[afm199]

One more reason I seldom ride on the street. I rode Redwood a week ago and picked up the pace a bit. But I don't trust other riders, cars, cops, deer, gravel or myself.

Last year I caught up with a group of riders. The guy in back was terrible. He saw me in his mirror and picked up pace. Blew the double yellow twice bad, and the third time went ALL the way across the road and smacke into a hillside.


What can you do? I actually saw him blow the double yellows twice and BACKED WAY off cuz I did not want to be around for #3.

PS: The guy on the cruiser had every right to be in his OWN lane. :laughing

[MrCrash]

Originally posted by afm199
One more reason I seldom ride on the street.

It's also one of the reasons I seldom ride locally on the street. Seems like aggressive riders with questionable skills are a lot less likely to do 200-300 mile (or overnight) treks to fun roads that are a little more remote.

[CHICKenstrip]

Originally posted by CityBikeMike
It's also one of the reasons I seldom ride locally on the street. Seems like aggressive riders with questionable skills are a lot less likely to do 200-300 mile (or overnight) treks to fun roads that are a little more remote.

Mike, the remote part makes some sense, but if you think about it, all those roads are someone local's Redwood and Hwy 9 (slydrite, you're killing me with the Hwy 9 stuff! :laughing).

Masameet is right on pointing out the bicycles. Not starting any hostile language about bikes, honestly, but I rode Redwood for the first time last Sunday with Erwin's newbie ride, and yeah, mostly the cyclists would be in a single line, as far over in the lane as possible. But other times, they'd be three wide or there was one guy who must've had enough of the rest of the group passing him, he kept weaving right to left, completely blocking me from being able to try and pass on a straight section.

Really glad to hear both riders and the passenger are gonna be okay. That's some scary stuff, there. :(

[jrace]

Originally posted by masameet
Is 35 anywhere near 9?

It's 26 away.

-jim

[masameet]

^ ^ ^

BOOOOOO!

:laughing

[wackyiraqi]

I can't believe the nerve of that cruiser.

[Hooli]

Originally posted by schteve
Don't forget to put these internals in your fronts..:cool


Fixed. :twofinger

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/198/575/3107541-full_assemblies.jpg

[Christieland]

Originally posted by CHICKenstrip
Mike, the remote part makes some sense, but if you think about it, all those roads are someone local's Redwood and Hwy 9.
The two times I've ridden Highway 58 with Mikey, which goes east/west from San Luis Obispo to Buttonwillow, they were both Saturdays and there was literally NO traffic. A few sport touring packs here and there, but seriously, it's pretty empty. I agree, I'd rather do my spirited street riding away from populated cities and metropolitan areas. On 58 there is nothing...the scenery isn't pretty, but the pavement and turns are beautiful!

[Nemo Brinker]

I agree with Christie 'bout 58--I did it in late fall on a weekday, and I saw 6 other cars and one other bike the whole durn way. Yummy to relax into the curves without worrying so much about yahoos blowing the DY.

It makes me want to go back up to Lolo Pass in Idaho Right Now! (uh-oh, road-trip jonesing will now commence)

[MrCrash]

Originally posted by CHICKenstrip
Mike, the remote part makes some sense, but if you think about it, all those roads are someone local's Redwood and Hwy 9

True, but I also like the fact that there are far fewer locals in those areas. 40,000 people in San Luis Obispo vs 800,000 in San Jose alone!

Originally posted by Christieland
The two times I've ridden Highway 58 with Mikey, which goes east/west from San Luis Obispo to Buttonwillow, they were both Saturdays and there was literally NO traffic. A few sport touring packs here and there, but seriously, it's pretty empty.

With the exception of the GSX-R1000s that *had* to show us who was boss on the straights :)

On 58 there is nothing...the scenery isn't pretty, but the pavement and turns are beautiful!

It's actually kinda riding the twisties just west of Buttonwillow in the evening, as you can see for miles across the plains. You're right though - that section of road is flat out sexy :)

[H.D.30-06]

I saw the scene from the Oakland side. I stopped and asked what had happened. What I was told was pretty much what has been said here. A crash like this usually results in a fatality. These riders were lucky they lived. I'm glad all 3 are going to be ok. I positioned myself up the road a ways and started waving and yelling at people to slow down.

[velocipus]

Originally posted by CHICKenstrip
I rode Redwood for the first time last Sunday with Erwin's newbie ride, and yeah, mostly the cyclists would be in a single line, as far over in the lane as possible. But other times, they'd be three wide or there was one guy who must've had enough of the rest of the group passing him, he kept weaving right to left, completely blocking me from being able to try and pass on a straight section.
:(

Must have been the cyclists first time on Redwood too... He hadn't been buzzed by a moto doing 70 yet.

I remember back in the day when I had my first rice rocket. took a passenger over Calistoga road and she freaked when I scraped a peg. she started leaning the wrong way and I missed a mini van by about 2 feet... scared the crap outta me and taught me to take it easy on my passengers.

[Meter Man]

Redwood is/was my favorite road in the bay area for slow night rides or early morning rides.

However, riding on it past 10am or before 7pm is asking for a fuck to take you out.

I have had 2 incidents were a sport bike was in my lane when curving right, and they straightened out to miss me and went off the road.

That along with multiple dy crossing by cars, bikes, motorycles etc made it a off hours road for me.

[Yody]

So are we talking about redwood road in Oakland, sounds like some people are confused