Speeding and earplugs ticket

[Grunz]

Hello,

Got a CVC 22349 (speeding 80 in 65) and a CVC 27400 (earplugs) on NB 280 just after 92 Saturday and I was wondering what my options are. This is my first ticket.

The San Mateo County Sheriff said he was behind me for 3 minutes running “Code 3” to another call and that I didn’t notice him and did not move over so he could pass me, I was in the left most lane keeping up with traffic. I guess he got upset so he pulled up alongside me and ordered me to pull over and cited me. I usually hear sirens and such but I take it was a very windy and gusty day up on 280 which made the noise in my helmet very bad- I donno.

I’m curious what are my options to deal with this and what will it cost me? Also I thought protective ear plugs were legal now?

Thanks

[Traq]

He actually had his siren on and you didn't hear it? I find it difficult to believe unless this (http://www.marineturbine.com/motorsports.asp) is your bike.

[Don Tuite]

There are some obsolete versions of CVC 27400 on the Web. This is the current version:

27400. A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears. This prohibition does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person operating authorized emergency vehicles, as defined in Section 165.

(b) A person engaged in the operation of either special construction equipment or equipment for use in the maintenance of any highway.

(c) A person engaged in the operation of refuse collection equipment who is wearing a safety headset or safety earplugs.

(d) A person wearing personal hearing protectors in the form of earplugs or molds that are specifically designed to attenuate injurious noise levels. The plugs or molds shall be designed in a manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle.

(e) A person using a prosthetic device that aids the hard of hearing.

Not that the LEO doesn't have Grunz dead to rights in this case, but I wanted to post this before somebody brings up the obsolete "custom molded" prohibition.

Don

[JackTheTripper]

Sounds like your BEST (not only) option is to go to court and kiss ass. You were speeding I assume, yes? (You didn't say if you were or not.) You were wearing ear plugs, right? Strike two. And it sounds like you were not checking your mirrors on a regular basis.

Suck it up. Go to court. hope for a reduced fine and ask for traffic school.

[ateamer]

Three minutes and you didn't notice the red and blue lights in your mirrors?

[RolnCode3]

the officer doesn't have Grunz dead to rights...but (d) clearly says: "The plugs or molds shall be designed in a manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle."

My suggestion would be to do research on the doppler effect and its effect on emergency vehicle sirens. There's MANY articles out there, and it's part of driver training for us. Questions to ask would be:

How far back the officer first saw you.
How fast was he approaching.
How far behind you he stayed.

Bring the earplugs to court and show that they're off-the-shelf types and nothing special (as long as that's the case). You can probably win on this violation...the speed is other people's area...can't comment.

This would have probably been appropriate as well...he was probably just pissed because he wanted to get to that call...been there before:

21806. Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency
vehicle which is sounding a siren and which has at least one lighted
lamp exhibiting red light that is visible, under normal atmospheric
conditions, from a distance of 1,000 feet to the front of the
vehicle, the surrounding traffic shall, except as otherwise directed
by a traffic officer, do the following:
(a) (1) Except as required under paragraph (2), the driver of
every other vehicle shall yield the right-of-way and shall
immediately drive to the right-hand edge or curb of the highway,
clear of any intersection, and thereupon shall stop and remain
stopped until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed.

[07chuck]

Sounds like BS to me... Not the speed part, the 3 miles part.... Pure BS... If he wanted by he would/could have passed you at any time in any of the other 3-5 lanes... I've been tailgated by a San Mateo County deputy in an attempt to push me over the speed limit on 280, when I exited he pulled me over and asked me "why was I going so slow and was I trying to evade him?"....

Sounds like the same BS... Just making up a reason to harass someone....


What you need is a copy of the dispatch records to verify that he was actually responding to an actual call...




note: I know most LEO's don't pull this crap and generally I have had positive interactions with local LEO's(except for the D-wad described above)...

[motorman4life]

What type of earplugs were you wearing?
Custom or prescription, foam expandable or iPod earphones?

[Grunz]

Soft foam ones.

[NorCalBusa]

What are you doing parked in the left lane? You should get a ticket, any ticket, for that.

[NorCalBusa]

Originally posted by 07chuck
Sounds like BS to me... Not the speed part, the 3 miles part.... Pure BS... If he wanted by he would/could have passed you at any time in any of the other 3-5 lanes... I've been tailgated by a San Mateo County deputy in an attempt to push me over the speed limit on 280, when I exited he pulled me over and asked me "why was I going so slow and was I trying to evade him?"....

Sounds like the same BS... Just making up a reason to harass someone....


What you need is a copy of the dispatch records to verify that he was actually responding to an actual call...




note: I know most LEO's don't pull this crap and generally I have had positive interactions with local LEO's(except for the D-wad described above)...

"Actually" and "actual" in the same sentence? A bit anal retentive there... Hint- lose both those words from your vocabulary, no one likes them.

And yeah, SMTO SO has nothing better to do than drive around looking for motorcycles so they can make up violations...

Not on YOU, but c'mon- do people really have such little notion of what policing is ACTUALLY about?

[07chuck]

Originally posted by NorCalBusa
"Actually" and "actual" in the same sentence? A bit anal retentive there... Hint- lose both those words from your vocabulary, no one likes them.

And yeah, SMTO SO has nothing better to do than drive around looking for motorcycles so they can make up violations...

Not on YOU, but c'mon- do people really have such little notion of what policing is ACTUALLY about? Bit sensitive there huh?

Are you also a member of the grammar police?...

The whole "Your vehicle resembles one that was just used in a crime is also kinda old..." just in case you were wondering...
:teeth

[Grunz]

Get a room guys, mkay. :)

RolnCode3:

This 21803 seems to be a perfect description of what happened considering the circumstances. He got mad because I did not yield. As I'm not at all familiar with traffic court, I'm curious could I somehow get a judge to convert my two infractions to just that one?

Would that be any advantage to me?

Thanks

[motorman4life]

The soft earplugs are legal, so long as they do not interfere with you hearing the siren or a simple car horn. In this case, if he had his lights and siren activated and you did not comply, you were in violation. Regardless or intention or wind or the angle of the sun.

Just for clarification; The earplug section is an equipment violation that is NOT A POINT on your record. The section you apparently prefer to be hit with is A POINT on your record. Obviously, the officer, er.. deputy was either giving you a break or did not know better, since the earplug section contained the base elements he was looking for. Either way, you are better off with the earplug violation vs. the failure to yield violation.

In all likelihood, the judge will dismiss the equipment violation if you plead to the speed and take traffic school. This way you get NO POINTS. If he had cited you for FTY, you could have easily ended up with TWO POINTS on your record and 2/3rds of the way to a suspended license.. is that what you want?

FTY to emergency vehicle is one of those sections that some judges treat very harshly. You are putting others at even more risk and they are less likely to even allow traffic school or cut any breaks for a 21806 CVC violation. I think the fine is something like $270 to $300 (and the applicable point on your record). The fine for the earplugs is like $50 to $80 (and again, NO point).

As for 07Chuck’s contention that the deputy coulda-shoulda-woulda passed you on the right… this is coming from someone that clearly has ZERO understanding of the laws pertaining to code 3 response. And, I mean ZERO. If you or 07Chuck need me to spell out the consequences and explain further, let me know. Suffice to say, the deputy would be absolutely crazy to pass on the right when rolling code 3.

5 available lanes or not. It ain't gonna happen. 10 ot 20 years ago, yeah. Now, no.

As for whether the deputy was responding to a code 3 call. I have seen this one blow up in a defendant’s face in court. I’ve never seen or heard of anyone getting the electric chair for an infraction, but once I saw a guy beef a 21806 tag with that approach in court… "Your honor, I don’t even believe he was responding to an emergency." The officer had the dispatch record and 9-1-1/dispatch tape in court… he was responding to a drowned toddler call. He actually played the 9-1-1 call of the hysterical mother and the dispatch in court. The defendant was crying, the judge was crying. Half the gallery was crying. It was bad. Needless to say, he did not get traffic school. You don’t want to be that guy. :(

[StuntrHuntr]

Originally posted by motorman4life
As for 07Chuck’s contention that the deputy coulda-shoulda-woulda passed you on the right… this is coming from someone that clearly has ZERO understanding of the laws pertaining to code 3 response. And, I mean ZERO.
True dat. True dat.

[NorCalBusa]

Originally posted by 07chuck
Bit sensitive there huh?

Are you also a member of the grammar police?...

The whole "Your vehicle resembles one that was just used in a crime is also kinda old..." just in case you were wondering...
:teeth

LOL! It's all good Chuck, just messing with ya. Boards been...boring of late.

[NorCalBusa]

Originally posted by motorman4life
FTY to emergency vehicle is one of those sections that some judges treat very harshly. You are putting others at even more risk and they are less likely to even allow traffic school or cut any breaks for a 21806 CVC violation. I think the fine is something like $270 to $300 <snip>

Is that less $ than a carpool violation? Ya know- so I have my priorities right...

[07chuck]

MM4L... I understand the liability issues...

That according to the OP he was cited for cvc 27400(ear plugs) vs. cvc 21806(failure to yield) raises questions. If the Deputy was actually delayed/
prevented from responding to a call why not the 21806. Why the PITA citation....

If you or any other LEO is responding to a drowning baby call I sure as hell hope you pass me however you see fit...

As I said before almost all of my experiences with local LEOs have been satisfactory...

[plumber]

This is the first earplug violation that I've read about here.

[VroomVroomVroom]

Reminds me of a friend of mine. He thought he was a good rider and was very confident and all. He had a trash bike that was troubled. I saw him once riding fast down the highway with a cop BMW bike close behind. My friend unaware of his presence, proceeded to ride like a Squid until the cop couldn't take his inabilities any longer and blasted past him and left him in the dust. Something so funny, I shall never forget! To this day my friend plays it off like it never happened. :laughing

......... hope that wasn't you!?

[monkeythumpa]

Originally posted by 07chuck
If you or any other LEO is responding to a drowning baby call I sure as hell hope you pass me however you see fit...

My uncle was an LA County Sheriff responding with sirens. As he approached an intersection all lanes going straight were blocked so he pulled over to the only free lane, the right hand turn lane. As he enters the lane a little old lady pulls into it. She saw the lights behind her so she pulled over. WHAM, he hits her doing about 40mph, she was going about 2mph. he told me the story in the 80s, I don't even remember what the hurry was for.

Don't worry, policing wasn't for him. He now drives fire trucks.

[enki]

Uh, does your bike have mirrors and have you ever used them?

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by monkeythumpa
Don't worry, policing wasn't for him. He now drives fire trucks. Is your Uncle Dragon, perchance??? :laughing :laughing :wow :laughing

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by 07chuck
MM4L... I understand the liability issues...

That according to the OP he was cited for cvc 27400(ear plugs) vs. cvc 21806(failure to yield) raises questions. If the Deputy was actually delayed/
prevented from responding to a call why not the 21806. Why the PITA citation....

If you or any other LEO is responding to a drowning baby call I sure as hell hope you pass me however you see fit...

As I said before almost all of my experiences with local LEOs have been satisfactory...
I would not consider it a PITA citation. I call it a "lesser included offense." The deputy may have felt it was more fitting, since there was an earplugs issue and clearly he was willing to overlook the 21806 violation.. in truth, the deputy could have justifiably cited him for BOTH violations, with the speeding to boot. So, I have to assume he was cutting him a break in just citing for the plugs. As much as the OP may feel the deputy was "upset," you wouldn't know it from how he was cited. I certainly would have cited for both the earplugs and the FTY and prolly warned on the speeding if it was under 80 MPH on 280 on a clear day with light traffic.

But that's me. :teeth

Obviosly, the deputy felt damned confident in his PACE if he did it for 3 miles!!! Plus, SMCo SO just had their fleet calibrated about a month ago, so they are all 100% legit!

Either way, the judge will likely dismiss the 27400 section for a plea to the mover. I just think the OP is more likely to be allowed traffic school for a garden variety speeding ticket vs. a 21806 impeding an EV tag.

Oh, and you THINK it's okay for an officer responding to a drowning baby call is okay to pass you however they see fit.. but the law says otherwise... and so will your family's lawyer when they sue the agency for wrongful death after the cop takes you out... regardless of what they are responding to... terrorist's holding school girls hostage, 9/11 part 2, even your own kid drowning. Once lawyers get involved, all bets are off! ;)

[NorCalBusa]

Can the Deputy add a section at court? Let's say 21806? How about the Judge- can he add it?

[Grunz]

Guys, this is exactly the type of discussion I was looking for. Thanks in particular for the LEO insights so far.

Originally posted by NorCalBusa
Can the Deputy add a section at court? Let's say 21806? How about the Judge- can he add it?

Thats a good question - was thinking of that.

[Don Tuite]

Don't try the Doppler defense. The judge may understand physics.

Don

[Espumoso]

Just getting up to speed here... no pun intended.

Officer is rollin' code 3 to save the proverbial baby in a pool, yet has time to (a) pace a vehicle for 3 miles and (b) pull violator over and write him two cites.

I'm glad that wasn't my baby. :rose

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by NorCalBusa
Can the Deputy add a section at court? Let's say 21806? How about the Judge- can he add it?
The charges could be amended at any point. It would be up to the judge whether he would allow it and it would be up to the officer.. deputy (I keep doing that!).

If it were going to happen, it would happen when the deputy gets his subpoena and his attention and drawn BACK to the incident. He could send out a standardized citation amendment form (notice) to you and (request to) the court to add or replace a charge. He does not need to even give a reason. With that form, he could add the 21806 violation or more likely amend/replace the 27400 charge with 21806 CVC.


As it stands, you will likely be getting a courtesy notice with the applicable base fines for the 2 charges. If you pay those, it is a guilty plea to the 2 charges. If you choose to appear for an arraignment, as I mentioned previously, the deputy that cited you will not be there. You can request that the arraignment judge suspend the 27400 infraction in favor of a plea to the speeding and ask that he allow traffic school for the speeding charge if you plead "nolo" to the one charge. I would say, if you are eligible for traffic school, your odds are about 90/10 that it will be honored.

If you get it, you owe me a beer.. :Port

[ateamer]

Originally posted by Espumoso
Just getting up to speed here... no pun intended.

Officer is rollin' code 3 to save the proverbial baby in a pool, yet has time to (a) pace a vehicle for 3 miles and (b) pull violator over and write him two cites.

I'm glad that wasn't my baby. :rose
He probably got cancelled. We run lights and siren all the time, only to be cancelled by the first unit on scene finding that it no longer needs a Code 3 response, or there are a sufficient number of units on scene.

[Espumoso]

Originally posted by ateamer
He probably got cancelled. We run lights and siren all the time, only to be cancelled by the first unit on scene finding that it no longer needs a Code 3 response, or there are a sufficient number of units on scene.

Figured as much, but then why not just cite for FTY, speeding or both. Code3 is no longer operative at the time of the cite and if he paced for 3 miles at > 60MPH it wasn't important for quite nearly 3 minutes.

Not defending the cyclist who must be pretty zoned out not to notice a car on their tail, not to mention, a sherrif with sirens and lights blazing! If you are that zoned out on 280NB in lane #1 then I'd reevaluate my state of mind before deciding to ride that stretch of 280 or any road in the first place. I rode/drove that for 4+ years daily and it is not a place to be spaced out for any stretch of time. I've also seen the Sherrif many a time and it's pretty hard to get pulled over by him.

[Traq]

Originally posted by Espumoso
Not defending the cyclist who must be pretty zoned out not to notice a car on their tail, not to mention, a sherrif with sirens and lights blazing! If you are that zoned out on 280NB in lane #1 then I'd reevaluate my state of mind before deciding to ride that stretch of 280 or any road in the first place. I rode/drove that for 4+ years daily and it is not a place to be spaced out for any stretch of time. I've also seen the Sherrif many a time and it's pretty hard to get pulled over by him.
Reminds me of an experience I had many moons ago out on 280 (or maybe it was 101) one night...

This dude and I were riding back from a meet/ride and going pretty damn fast. Passed another guy on a bike and then shortly after we come up on the tail of a CHP in the #1. So we naturally fall back in line and get over a lane or two.

Well apparently the biker we passed decided he didn't want to just tool along any more...he comes flying up and gets right on the CHP's tail...stays like this for a ways until the CHP pulls over into the #2 and lets the biker pass him, which he does. At this point I can't really believe what I'm seeing, that someone could possibly be that stupid...

So yea, the CHP pulls behind the guy and lights him up. Biker pulls over to the far right lanes and slows down, but doesn't stop. CHP engages sirens and gets on the loud speaker telling him to pull over. Biker is making some kind of gestures which I think he meant to indicate he wanted to pull off up ahead at an offramp because the shoulders were pretty narrow there...by this time we're passing the scene and didn't get a chance to see the resolution. But damn was that good for a laugh!

After witnessing that encounter, I don't find it too hard to believe someone might be oblivious to a unit on their ass. ;)

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by Espumoso
Just getting up to speed here... no pun intended.

Officer is rollin' code 3 to save the proverbial baby in a pool, yet has
time to (a) pace a vehicle for 3 miles and (b) pull violator over and write
him two cites.

I'm glad that wasn't my baby. :rose
The officer is rollin' code 3. He is ordering all traffic to pull to to the
right and stop and while he is in compliance with department policy, he has certain protections under the law. These are protections from personal liability. If you park in the fast lane, you are blocking his lawful pass. He is essentially trapped behind you... 1 mile, 2 miles, 3 miles. It doesn't matter. If he intends to proceed in lawful code 3 mode, he needs to have his emergency lights activated and a siren (as per the code) "as reasonably necessary." As for non-complaince by other motorists, it is an issue with the situational awareness of the driver that is blocking the path.

Regardless of how motivated the officer is to get to his destination, if he wants to continue with the protections granted by the law, he must wait until he can pass safely on the left. Unfortunately, if the officer does attempt to pass on the right, he is hanging his ass out because if you move over into him, he is at fault. He loses his pension, his house, his wife, his kids and his dog.

If he SHUTS DOWN all emergency equipment, he could pass, but consider that he had broadcasted (visually and audibly) his command to yield to the right and stop, so he not only has to shut down, but he has to WAIT until he feels it is clear/safe you won't move over in some sort of delayed response to the previous order. Then, assuming you are at-or-above the posted maximum limit, he has to overtake you at a greater speed, without his lights and siren. If he cuts you off or event another vehicle or is involved in or proximately causes an accident while passing you at some speed between yours and say 110 mph... he is doing that without any of the protections of the lights and siren. So again, if something bad happens, the officer will undoubtedly have contributed to it and again, he loses his pension, his house, his wife, his kids and his dog.

It is as simple as that.

Drivers really need to stay out of the #1 lane unless making a pass, so they don't have to worry about obstructing emergency vehicles. Once you occupy that lane, you have an obligation to be significantly more aware of vehicles approaching from behind. If you cannot do that, you have no business in the #1 lane. If traffic is light, you shouldn't even consider parking in the fast lane unless you are making a pass. Then, once the pass in completed, you should be getting back over. Especially if you are wearing earphones, headphones, earplugs and/or it is windy and you cannot hear sirens or horns.

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by Espumoso
Figured as much, but then why not just cite for FTY, speeding or both. Code3 is no longer operative at the time of the cite and if he paced for 3 miles at > 60MPH it wasn't important for quite nearly 3 minutes.

Not defending the cyclist who must be pretty zoned out not to notice a car on their tail, not to mention, a sherrif with sirens and lights blazing! If you are that zoned out on 280NB in lane #1 then I'd reevaluate my state of mind before deciding to ride that stretch of 280 or any road in the first place. I rode/drove that for 4+ years daily and it is not a place to be spaced out for any stretch of time. I've also seen the Sherrif many a time and it's pretty hard to get pulled over by him.
Ummm... maybe you missed it. He could have cited for the FTY to EV, which carries a ~$300 fine and a negligent operator point.. along with the speeding (another fine and potential point) and is one of those sections where judges RARELY offer traffic school. Instead, the officer cited for a ~$88 equipment violation (no point) and the speed. And again, is it stands, unless the OP is ineligible for traffic school, he would have a good chance of getting the earplug violation dismissed/suspended if he pleads to the speed and takes traffic school.

Have a nice day. :deadhorse

[Grunz]

motorman4life:

Pleading to the speed and asking for traffic school seems to be the best option.

This is my first ticket and I have a clean record, does that mean I'm eligible for traffic school?

Also, I'm curious about how much will the speed violation cost?

[plumber]

Originally posted by motorman4life

Drivers really need to stay out of the #1 lane unless making a pass,

and thus we see the biggest problem of all.....

[JackTheTripper]

Yes, you should be able to get traffic school. Don't know how much the fine will be.