tearing tires

[kyles here]

i noticed after lunch my tears were starting to slightly tear. the temp went up about 25* from the morning when i adjusted them. its a pr4 and set them at 22 psi. i talked to i think dave from catalyst thinking it might be suspension and he said it looked like its just underinflated by about a pound because the tear is minimal. arent they suppose to be at 22?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/kylesr6/DSC00467.jpg

[Outta Control]

Did you follow Dave's advice? Did it help? From what i learned from the tire gurus in here is that the ambient temp will affect the pressure on the tire. I believe the rule of thumb is that at a given pressure the tire should raise between 6~7 psi higher when the tire is cold.

[kyles here]

he said since its minimal and the temp is just gonna start getting cooler that i should just leave them where they were at.

[Raven_05R6]

what does the back edge of the grooves look like? are they cupping, or leaving tread on the following edge?

[Yody]

Theres a reason Pete noticed your tires tearing so quickly;
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181263&highlight=hot+tearing

[clutchslip]

I vote,
A: Under-inflated tire.
B: Too much re-bound damping in the shock.

[allergic2death]

Originally posted by Outta Control
Did you follow Dave's advice? Did it help? From what i learned from the tire gurus in here is that the ambient temp will affect the pressure on the tire. I believe the rule of thumb is that at a given pressure the tire should raise between 6~7 psi higher when the tire is cold.

um reverse that. Its a basic temp pressure relationship. Temp goes up pressure goes up.

[afm199]

Could be cold tear hot tear too much spring or too much rebound to name a few.

[Yody]

I personally and ignorantly think it is your suspension but its just a guess.

BTW I would bet you used up a that tire pretty good. I wouldn't expect to get many more days out of it compared to a properly worn tire, I may be over dramatizing it, but when those 209's were tearing they only lasted 1 1/2 track days

[clutchslip]

Originally posted by afm199
Could be cold tear hot tear too much spring or too much rebound to name a few.

You must have left something out. This is too narrow a spectrum. :laughing

[afmotorsports]

hmmm... what's the manufacturing date on the sidewall? I have a feeling I know where you got those...

[SPZ510]

Try Dunlops!:teeth :teeth :teeth Sorry Alex.

[kyles here]

Originally posted by afmotorsports
hmmm... what's the manufacturing date on the sidewall? I have a feeling I know where you got those...
3605, i was pissed when i read those but i had brand new ones on last season and they wore the exact same way...22 lbs also. i had my suspension dialed in last season too

[afmotorsports]

For the record, you didn't get those from me... you bought "closeouts" off Ebay (according to one of your previous posts). Considering you might only get one more day of use out of that rear (if you're lucky), it may not seem like such a great deal anymore... The tire may be round and black and says "Michelin" on the sidewall, but you might be learning an expensive lesson. Sorry.

On the right rear tire, you would easily go 4-5 trackdays and it wouldn't look like that. You would also be on a different front tire. Some of the tires being dumped on Ebay are 4-5 years old and I know exactly who is dumping them back east... We don't do that. I would never put some of those tires on my racebike or my streetbike, which means I would never put them on a customer's bike either.

Put the "wrong" tire in any brand (including Dunlop) and you can end up with similar results. If you want to run Dunlops, call my good friend Terry Newby at www.sporttire.com, tell him what tracks you plan on riding and you're more likely to get the right tire than if you go online to buy tires from some clueless goober who just cares about making a sale...

[Ridley]

Since we are on the subject, I had the same thing happen to me at t-hill, with a bran new Pilot Race Medium. However mine was/is much worse. I have small chunks coming out of my tire along with the extra rough band like the one in the photo. I did not purchase them from the web but rather during a trackday at Sears a little over a month ago, (well actually a friend picked them up for me at the trackday). The funny thing is I am on a girls bike (SV650) and was supprised to see tire wear like that. I am pretty sure that the suspension is to blame in my case through (and no its not stock its penske and a semi-reworked GSXR front) and can be adjusted to be nice to the tire.

[Yody]

Originally posted by kyles here
3605, i was pissed when i read those but i had brand new ones on last season and they wore the exact same way...22 lbs also. i had my suspension dialed in last season too

I think you need to spend more time with the suspension, Take it down to Rob @ Evolution. He is the one who took care of the 636 and it stopped tearing tires once he messed with it.

[afmotorsports]

Nope. Rob can't help you. Neither can Phil or Jim or Dan or Dave or any other suspension shop. Wrong tire, wrong track, wrong time of year. You can't adjust suspension or tire pressure to make up for that. Ridley, don't use mediums at Thunderhill. Ever! Save them for Infineon and especially for Buttonwillow (or for street use).

[Yody]

So a medium is too soft for T-hill?

[Outta Control]

Hey Alex,

I bought some F/R Pilot Race Med compound I am not familiar with the Michelin codes and such. I bought them from CG. Would be aware of any background about tires that CG carries? Are they good...what do I need to look for....or my expectations.

[afmotorsports]

Mediums are likely to tear at Thunderhill. CG carries the Michelin "commercial Power Race". We are racetire distributors for Michelin and although we also have access to the commercial tires, we can get other tires that CG (or any other shop) can't get. Thunderhill is one of the most difficult tracks in the country in terms of tire choice. Take Kyle's rear tire out there and you may not make it past lunch.

With really jacked up suspension you can ruin just about any tire in any brand (none of them are totally bulletproof), but no amount of suspension work can make the wrong tire choice work at certain racetracks. Why do you guys think that most racers ASK us (me for Michelin, Terry for Dunlop, Josh for Pirelli) instead of TELL us what tire they want to use?? You guys have local racetire experts at your disposal for every brand...

[Outta Control]

Alex I just happen to come across with these tire and the price was reasonable. I am going to Millers which I was told was brutal on the front tire. Could those set last me the weekend? BTW i did call Sporttire since I've been a Dunlop guy forever and I got recommendations from them to what compound. I also called the Pirelli folks about the same subject. Now I was just asking you, the king of Michelin. ;)

[afmotorsports]

I think mediums would be a mistake. I would not count on those for the weekend at Miller. I'll be out of town until Monday, but feel free to call me if you want me to get you tires for next weekend.

I'm hardly the king of anything, just ask my wife... :laughing :laughing

[khill]

I have run Michelin PR2/M-S combo at Miller on a CBR600 and they lasted 2.5 days, no tearing, great grip....

Ken

[kyles here]

so alex what tires should i be running? im a michelin guy so i wont try dunslops. im at B+ pace, i was expecting to get maybe 3 or 4 out of the rear but i know thats definately not gonna happen

[Outta Control]

Thanks for the modivation. I hope I can make it last that long

[afmotorsports]

Originally posted by kyles here
so alex what tires should i be running? im a michelin guy so i wont try dunslops. im at B+ pace, i was expecting to get maybe 3 or 4 out of the rear but i know thats definately not gonna happen

As Ken posted already (in case you don't know him, Ken Hill is one of Freddie Spencer School's instructors), the PR2 front or the PRC should work well and for the rear tire, either the commercial medium/soft or the PR5 rear would be a good choice. I'm headed out of town for the weekend, but if you need them before Monday you can also reach Brian at MotoShoes (he is at Infineon on Sunday with ZoomZoom).

Have fun at Miller! (oh yeah, and save that PR4 rear for hotter days at Buttonwillow)

[spotter]

afmotorsports, sent you a PM.

[norcalzx10r]

Alex, can you tell me where I can find info on what PR1-5 and C compounds are.
Tony.

[kyles here]

so ive been reading a few guys are saying it could be a rebound issue....

[afmotorsports]

Tony, it's simple: you show up at the track, you come over and ask me what to use, I have the right compound mounted for the conditions and then you're off on your merry way to enjoy the racetrack. :teeth

Plan B is to try to outsmart knowledge and experience derived from literally millions of miles at the local racetracks, but I have a feeling that could turn out to be quite a bit more frustrating and expensive in the long run... It's my job to try to make your experience on Michelins a positive one, so I'd like to think I generally help riders. There are certain compounds we don't even bring at some tracks because we KNOW they won't work. Why would anyone spend their hard-earned money to learn that lesson the hard way?

[afm199]

I semi dittto that. You take a supersoft to Thill in the warm season and nothing you do will stop it from tearing. In the hot season you will destroy it.

I totally roached a tire in 80 miles at Sears a couple years ago, too soft and too much pressure.

[norcalzx10r]

Originally posted by afmotorsports
Tony, it's simple: you show up at the track, you come over and ask me what to use, I have the right compound mounted for the conditions and then you're off on your merry way to enjoy the racetrack. :teeth

Plan B is to try to outsmart knowledge and experience derived from literally millions of miles at the local racetracks, but I have a feeling that could turn out to be quite a bit more frustrating and expensive in the long run... It's my job to try to make your experience on Michelins a positive one, so I'd like to think I generally help riders. There are certain compounds we don't even bring at some tracks because we KNOW they won't work. Why would anyone spend their hard-earned money to learn that lesson the hard way?

Yes, that's fine,But where can I find info on PR1-5 and what is the C tire. It's great that you can set me up but I'd like some info.
Tony

[afmotorsports]

I'm not sure what other info you would like. There is no information online about the PR tires. Michelin racetires are constantly changing. The PR4 from two years ago is not the same as the current PR4. It's a part time job just to keep up with all the changes. I spend a lot of time and effort testing different tires at our local tracks, so please forgive me but I'm not going to just publish everything I know so that people can then order tires from somebody else. We have a small business and our competitive advantage is our knowledge of the local tracks. I hope you understand.

[SPZ510]

Usually if you just go to the track take the advise and equipment that is given to you there you be fine. If there are problems go back and have them make suggestions and or adjustments. One of the best things you can have is faith in your tire guy and your suspension guy. Usually it's the people that go out there and with whatever,have problems and try to sort them out themselves by making adjustments this way and that way until they crash. Those people are allways wondering if they went the right direction and therefore never having confidense(sp?) in their equipment. They will struggle with thier times and have a greater risk of a short track career.
I use Dunlops because I have faith in them. I would buy from Alex because I have faith in him. The only reason that I have'nt been a customer of his is becuase he sells a product I don't know. But if you trust Michelins, them go to your trackside vendor and use what he tells you to.

Ok, back to work, the boss is coming!!!!!:teeth

[norcalzx10r]

Ok. I guess I should have reworded my initial question. I just want to know what a soft/med-soft or a med/soft-med and so on in relation to the PR1-5. It's a bit cofusing with all the diff. tire compounds. Also, what compound is the PRC tire? Sorry for the cofusion. I have no doubt that you can set me up with the correct combo. I just wanted general tire info.
Tony:teeth

[Yody]

Originally posted by afmotorsports
Tony, it's simple: you show up at the track, you come over and ask me what to use, I have the right compound mounted for the conditions and then you're off on your merry way to enjoy the racetrack. :teeth

Plan B is to try to outsmart knowledge and experience derived from literally millions of miles at the local racetracks, but I have a feeling that could turn out to be quite a bit more frustrating and expensive in the long run... It's my job to try to make your experience on Michelins a positive one, so I'd like to think I generally help riders. There are certain compounds we don't even bring at some tracks because we KNOW they won't work. Why would anyone spend their hard-earned money to learn that lesson the hard way?

Sounds good to me

[afmotorsports]

Originally posted by norcalzx7r
Ok. I guess I should have reworded my initial question. I just want to know what a soft/med-soft or a med/soft-med and so on in relation to the PR1-5. It's a bit cofusing with all the diff. tire compounds. Also, what compound is the PRC tire? Sorry for the cofusion. I have no doubt that you can set me up with the correct combo. I just wanted general tire info.
Tony:teeth

Ok, I'll keep it simple: the only commercial tire I would consider bringing to the track would be the 180/55 medium/soft and that would only happen if Michelin ran out of the PR racetires.

I never bring out 180/55 softs or mediums or any of the commercial fronts. PR1 and PR2 fronts are the same profile as the commercial tires, but now we use PRC front which is a different construction and different rubber and different profile and different diameter. And for now it only comes in one compound and we run it everywhere quite successfully! PR3, PR4 and PR5 are 180/55 racetires and we use all of them at different times, on different bikes, with different riders. The 190/55 racetires are not commercial tires you can buy from local shops, but those come in soft, med/soft and medium. I have a medium on my ZX-10R for trackdays and it wears like iron, unlike the commercial 180/55 medium which shreds easily at abrassive tracks. For the races we bring only 190/55 softs and med/softs.

I could go on and on, but I'll probably make your head spin and in a few months you have to relearn a bunch of stuff because they will change again. Just because a tire is round and black doesn't mean it will work right all the time, at every track, with every bike and every rider. I rarely screw up and put riders on the wrong tire because we try to test everything at various tracks before we swipe a customer's credit card and mount the tires on a wheel.

[dubels]

Hmm I am having tearing problems too. It was really bad before Rob took a look at my f4i's suspension. In the morning at WSIR my Diablo (regular) was tearing very little less than the OP's so I just raised the pressure a little running 32 front and 30 rear. I was running 31 and 29 before lunch. After lunch my first session out it was super windy and my tires started to tear like crazy. I had made sure that my tires were 32 and 30 before I left for my session but still they were tearing. Then my second session out the wind started up even worse and my tires were really tearing and I was having traction problems. The rear is fairly new 3000 street miles? but it was tearing worse than the front mostly on the right side I think because of t8 at WSIR and the wind.
http://thumb5.webshots.net/t/16/16/4/80/43/2893480430098745745qEaNbV_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2893480430098745745qEaNbV)

So you are saying we shouldn't run tires like the Diablos at a trackday? I am a novice rider not the slowest in C but not the fastest. I was thinking about trying out the new Diablo Corsa IIIs. Just want a tire that is nice an grippy without having to run tire warmers.

[norcalzx10r]

This is the info I was looking for. I should have just spent more time with google.
http://sportbiketrackgear2.homestead.com/michelin_tire_data.html
This is from the article
"POWER RACE & POWER RACE “PR”

Ok, this gets confusing so we’ll try and make it simple. Michelin makes two separate Power Race tire line ups. The Power Race and then the Power Race “PR” series. The “PR” series are made specifically for the North American market and feature more technologically advanced and different tread compounds and casing construction than “regular” Power Race. “PR” models are typically only available from authorized race tire distributors. Altogether, there are seven (7) different compounds. Standard Power Race: Fronts and rears in the following compounds: Soft, Medium-Soft and Medium. The front compounds are slightly softer than the rears. (Example: A Medium front/rear combo will have a front that is slightly softer than the rear even though they are both medium compounds.) To identify the compound look on the sidewall of the tire and the compound will be directly follow the words “Power Race”. We Stock: Front 110/70 soft, 120/60 soft, 120/70 soft(PR1), med-soft(PR2), medium. Rear 150/60 soft, 160/60 med-soft & medium, 180/55 soft(PR3) med-soft(PR4) medium, 190/55 med-soft & medium.
Power Race “PR” Series – We stock the PR1 and PR4 combo and were able to get a special very special deal on PR1 & PR4 combos. We also have some other PR series tires such as the PR2(med-soft) front, PRC (soft triangulated) front and PR5(medium) rear, but they are rather expensive. Track Notes: Are you are running an SV-650 or new Ninja 650 twin? The PR1 with a Power Race 160/60 medium makes a great track day and race combo. Got one of the hot 600 in-line fours? The PR1 and PR4 combo sets give BIG dollar race tire performance at a smoking good price. If you take your bike on the street occasionally, or want a little harder compound for those really hot summer days, we suggest the Power Race medium front and rear combo. You 1000cc riders have a couple of different choices… The PR1 or PR2 front is an excellent front choice combined with a PR4 or power race medium rear. If you have a 6-inch rear wheel or just like the profile, the Power Race 190/55 rear is a phenomenal rear tire and personal favorite of the authors. We offer the 190/55 in med-soft and medium, with the medium being the best choice for most riders and conditions. IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTE: The 180/55 and 190/55 Power Race & PR tires run 22 – 24 PSI. Do not run above or below this pressure! Power Race & PR fronts run 31-33 PSI.

:applause

[Holeshot]

Norcalzx7r:

I'm somewhat confused by what problem you are trying to eliminate here. I see yourself creating more problems, in a manner of speaking, by essentially ignoring our local Michelin Rep and researching contrasting information on the web. Sometimes the web can be wrong, and sometimes, this can lead to a poor decision.

Our local Michelin Rep, Alex Florea at AF Motorsports, has been doing this job for some time. He's got an intimate knowledge of ANY Michelin tire at ALL the tracks we run up here. He's had multiple class champions run on his rubber and win many championships on his rubber and advice: Ken Hill, Bobby Fong, Andy Carman, Chris Siglin, Kim Nakishima...the list goes on an on. Alex is what one would call a "high end" tire provider, and not in price, but in his service, knowledge, and understanding of the material. When he explains that this stuff changes from year to year, that's not a line of BS. In fact, there's even mid year changes with some brands. You've got to know this stuff COLD to understand it.

Alex Florea does know this stuff COLD.

Now that being said, the price works out about the same as if one buys on the Internet (assuming you can get the same compound) and has it mounted, as from buying from our local tire reps (Dunlop, Pirelli, Michelin, Bridgestone). Trust me, I've tried to beat the system...and it's really beaten me.

The answer is to call and speak with Alex beforehand and he'll set you up with the best rubber, or at least point you to a source if he cannot. He's VERY good like that. Point in case: A friend recently bought some rubber not from Alex, but from the only choice at the time of the trackday (the provider there). I felt the rubber choice wasn't the correct one, given my experience. I don't believe Alex would have made the choice she was sold.

FWIW, I'm not on Michelins, nor haven't a need to promote Alex aside from relating to all his background and expertise. It's there....use it. And support our local vendors. In truth, we cannot win races without these guy's expertise (or get 2nd's and 3rd's like me).

[norcalzx10r]

Originally posted by Holeshot
Norcalzx7r:

I'm somewhat confused by what problem you are trying to eliminate here. I see yourself creating more problems, in a manner of speaking, by essentially ignoring our local Michelin Rep and researching contrasting information on the web. Sometimes the web can be wrong, and sometimes, this can lead to a poor decision.

Our local Michelin Rep, Alex Florea at AF Motorsports, has been doing this job for some time. He's got an intimate knowledge of ANY Michelin tire at ALL the tracks we run up here. He's had multiple class champions run on his rubber and win many championships on his rubber and advice: Ken Hill, Bobby Fong, Andy Carman, Chris Siglin, Kim Nakishima...the list goes on an on. Alex is what one would call a "high end" tire provider, and not in price, but in his service, knowledge, and understanding of the material. When he explains that this stuff changes from year to year, that's not a line of BS. In fact, there's even mid year changes with some brands. You've got to know this stuff COLD to understand it.

Alex Florea does know this stuff COLD.

Now that being said, the price works out about the same as if one buys on the Internet (assuming you can get the same compound) and has it mounted, as from buying from our local tire reps (Dunlop, Pirelli, Michelin, Bridgestone). Trust me, I've tried to beat the system...and it's really beaten me.

The answer is to call and speak with Alex beforehand and he'll set you up with the best rubber, or at least point you to a source if he cannot. He's VERY good like that. Point in case: A friend recently bought some rubber not from Alex, but from the only choice at the time of the trackday (the provider there). I felt the rubber choice wasn't the correct one, given my experience. I don't believe Alex would have made the choice she was sold.

FWIW, I'm not on Michelins, nor haven't a need to promote Alex aside from relating to all his background and expertise. It's there....use it. And support our local vendors. In truth, we cannot win races without these guy's expertise (or get 2nd's and 3rd's like me).

OK. In a nut shell....
PR1 is it soft?med? soft/med? dual compound?
PR2 is it soft?med?soft/med? dual compound?
PR3 is it soft?med? soft/med? dual compound?
PR4 is it soft?med? soft/med? dual compound?
PR5 is it soft?med? soft/med? dual compound?
That's all. Pardon the confusion. This is the only info I was looking for.

Tony..

[#1Freak]

PR compounds are completely different compounds, and have nothing in common with the soft, med/soft, amd med compounds found on other michelin tires.

[Holeshot]

Brian is correct Tony. I'm not sure what that info you have really tells you, though.

I run a HARD front tire on my race bikes (as does another un-named REALLY fast guy). We do so for suspension reasons...it seems the mediums have both caused us midcorner chatter. Now, how will your information help you with that?

Oh, and we get the same grip from the hards...(it's not Michelin's stuff, however).

[norcalzx10r]

Alex PM'd me with the info I was looking for. Thanx guys for your input.
Tony...Originally posted by Holeshot
Brian is correct Tony. I'm not sure what that info you have really tells you, though.

I run a HARD front tire on my race bikes (as does another un-named REALLY fast guy). We do so for suspension reasons...it seems the mediums have both caused us midcorner chatter. Now, how will your information help you with that?

Oh, and we get the same grip from the hards...(it's not Michelin's stuff, however).

[kyles here]

ok so instead of making another thread i thought id jsut ask in this one since theres a pic up. should i flip my tires to prolong the life of it or should i keep it like this for another day? ill be at thill on the 7th

[volcom415]

Originally posted by kyles here
ok so instead of making another thread i thought id jsut ask in this one since theres a pic up. should i flip my tires to prolong the life of it or should i keep it like this for another day? ill be at thill on the 7th

Hey Kyle I bought the same freaking tire and the thing didnt last me a half day at miller. The grip was still there, but there was no rubber. I was running them initially at 22psi and through the day we finally helped the tire recover with a higher psi. I ran 24.5 while my friend ran 23.5 on the same tires from the same ebay guy.

Pretty disappointed as I got way more life with the commercially available tires...and loved the grip equally.

I would flip them as I did and bump that psi up. The amount of psi that you bump it up depends on your riding style according to dave moss. I would bump it up to 23.5 cold... and go from there. Mine cleaned up very nicely, but disappointed because the tire looked like crap and mentally I lost confidence...

Side note..we also softened up the rebound initially 2 clicks and that may help as well...Although it didnt start healing really uuntil the psi was bumped up.

Here is my tire after it went though that crap...you can see the sloped portion where the tearing occured and by the end of the day there was no more tearing but no more rubber...and I am slow to give you perspective.


http://gptech.smugmug.com/photos/145718277-L.jpg

[Yody]

when you say "same freaking tire" do you mean the out of date ones on ebay, or just a Power race?

[volcom415]

I mean the closeout ebay tires...sorry for the confusion...I love the power races normally.

[Holeshot]

That's really not bad tearing for Miller...

[SPZ510]

That seems like normall wear to me. If you go on the D.Moss website it gives a couple examples of tearing and none of them look as good as that. Whatever setup you ended up with, I would stick with that and throw on a set of new tires to see how they look afterwards.

Holeshot, were you at Miller?

[afm199]

Guys a thing to remember is that HP bikes eat tires. I had a stack of fifteen tires left from one season from the 1000rr, now it was a long season, but this sport is an expensive sport. Important to understand that.

That is why I ride a girlie bike that needs six tires a year.

[volcom415]

berto you fast
me slow

And yeah its not horrible, but at my pace I usually dont see that kind of wear.

:)

[volcom415]

Originally posted by SPZ510
That seems like normall wear to me. If you go on the D.Moss website it gives a couple examples of tearing and none of them look as good as that. Whatever setup you ended up with, I would stick with that and throw on a set of new tires to see how they look afterwards.

Holeshot, were you at Miller?

I am not say that this tire is tearing now. I was saying that after the tearing occurred this is what it looked like after making the adjustments

This is the RECOVERED tire. This tire was really torn and just ripped away the meat of the tire. I would say that this tire now has no tearing..not perfectly set up suspension but not tearing. This is with the bumped psi and softened up rebound.

and on an ole dinky 600

[#1Freak]

that tire is way overDONE. you are halfway through the wearbar. 1 day at Miller shaved all the rubber?

There is maybe a .5mm left of rubber there before you hit cords.
THe wearbar means serious business. once you hit it the re is nothing left. Come by my or ALex's pits next time you are around, we cut a tire in half and it is shocking to see so little material is left at he wearbar...

Talk to Alex or myself next time and we can put you on the correct, hasslefree, compound. Or you can try to save $20-40 bucks and have the tires last only 1/4 their normal life.....

Brian

[kyles here]

hey brian your talking about volcoms tires being overdone right cuz mine only have 115 miles on them at b pace?

[volcom415]

Kyle Im 100% positive he was talking about my tire.

To everyone who is hating on the cheap ebay tires...I agree wholeheartedly. I did not know the date code...I did not know they were gonna disintergrate after only a session...so Im sorry. LOL

At this point I would rather run the commercial tires Med/soft than run the PR series. I think just from the bad experience of these old PRs and the fact that I am slow enough to not know the difference.

Alex can you tell me how the old ebay closeout tires differ from the new ones?

[kyles here]

yea i didnt know the date code either otherwise i wouldnt have gotten them but last year i had the commercial pr tires soft front and med/soft rear and they were tearing the same way. i think it just might be soft tires at thill...

[#1Freak]

volcom, it is not nesseceriely the date, it is that it is the wrong compound for the conditions (track, temp, bike, and pace). I'm not hating on anybody. I just know that michelins are great tires. WHen poeple use the wrong compound, they have a bad experiance. I don't want my customers to have a bad experience. You guys pay good money for tires, they should perform well.

The wrong commercial compound would have yielded the same results. PRs will suit you just as well, maybe better

The close out tires on ebay are usually the compounds that are not used most. you got wither a PR3 or a PR4. They are great tires under the right circumstances....

Brian

[afm199]

Those ebay cheap specials are cheap for a reason. I do get an occasional SC1 160 slick cheap. I can get away with those early in the season. Once the ambient temp gets over 80 degrees they start to wear fast, to say the least.

[volcom415]

Brian I totally understand and I hope you guys know that i am smiling while typing. I had such a good time a miller tires or not ...nothing made me have a bad time.

The reason why I thought that they would be a fine compound choice was because at the time I bought the "tires" the predicted weather was forecasting real feel HIGH of 37C with snow at night....yada yada, I thought that at those temps and with a smoother track surface it wouldnt have been an issue.

I have had really good experiences with them and actually I think I bought a set from you guys at reno. Great tire... and that is why I chose it for the most hyped and anticipated trackday of my year. I trust them completely.

My pace on my 01 gsxr 600 is not fast by any means... so that was my thought process FWIW.

[Holeshot]

SPZ510, I was at Miller last June for the AMA stuff. The track is so damn fun!

[afmotorsports]

Originally posted by volcom415
Alex can you tell me how the old ebay closeout tires differ from the new ones?

Two east coast distributors got a hold of a bunch of close-out tires at ridiculous prices and threw them up on Ebay for waaaay below dealer cost (which in itself is sort of eff'ed up...) but the worst part is that they told people whatever they wanted to hear just to blow them out. Surf the forums and you'll find a bunch of ticked off people that thought they scored a "killer deal". They were generally old stock and also the compounds we rarely used (for good reason). The PR1s and PR4s you took to Miller had to be the absolute worst tire choice in the line-up, but obviously nobody told you the difference. My guys (and girls!) that go to Miller on the right compounds will go a minimum 2-3 days on that track, even though it's a very, very abrassive track that eats most tires alive (your pic being a perfect example).

btw, if you pick the wrong "commercial tires" you would've experienced equally poor results.

[kyles here]

im spending the extra money next time

[volcom415]

Originally posted by afmotorsports
Two east coast distributors got a hold of a bunch of close-out tires at ridiculous prices and threw them up on Ebay for waaaay below dealer cost (which in itself is sort of eff'ed up...) but the worst part is that they told people whatever they wanted to hear just to blow them out. Surf the forums and you'll find a bunch of ticked off people that thought they scored a "killer deal". They were generally old stock and also the compounds we rarely used (for good reason). The PR1s and PR4s you took to Miller had to be the absolute worst tire choice in the line-up, but obviously nobody told you the difference. My guys (and girls!) that go to Miller on the right compounds will go a minimum 2-3 days on that track, even though it's a very, very abrassive track that eats most tires alive (your pic being a perfect example).

btw, if you pick the wrong "commercial tires" you would've experienced equally poor results.

Alex,

Under these circumstances and not from what I know now...tell me why I made the worst tire choice given these criteria.

Keep in mind that I am totally here to learn. Its great having someone as knowledgeable about the michelins as you.

The reason why I thought that they would be a fine compound choice was because at the time I bought the "tires" the predicted weather was forecasting real feel HIGH of 37C with snow at night....yada yada, I thought that at those temps and with a smoother track surface it wouldnt have been an issue.

In hindsight I would have either ran PR2/5 combo, med soft front and rear, or then lastly medium front and rear.

But at the time I thought that my tire choice was ok given those conditions.

I am usually pretty easy on my tires. I got 4 trackdays out of the commercial power races...this was my first experience with the PR series.

And ditto n what kyle said

[afmotorsports]

Sorry, I hope I didn't come across as if I'm busting your chops... What I meant is that you didn't have good information about what those tires can and can't do, so you probably assumed that they were a sort of "medium soft" rear. Based on track temperatures, you may have assumed that the colder temps would let you get away with a medium soft instead of a medium... but that's not how it works. In fact, had you chosen the commercial medium compound you would've destroyed that just as bad as the PR4 if not worse! Of all the commercially available tires, the only one I would consider bringing to the track would be the medium/soft rear and nothing else... and even that med/soft would only be a "back-up plan" in case I couldn't get the right PR-series compounds. Yyou can get away with running a few other commercially available tires if you go to Buttonwillow or (maybe?) Infineon, but Thunderhill and Miller are going to destroy tires if you put on the wrong compound.

Hope that helps.

[frontwheelriser]

I cant believe Michelin would sell us "normal" buyers "commercial" CRAP.