Pay for the academy?

[bpowa]

Well I applied for san jose a while back and got to the background. I was not hired due to bad driving record. However they told me to apply again this year.

I just started my current job and its a decent job. However my heart is not in it. There is always that "question of what if"?

I am thinking about putting myself to the academy. This means using all my savings and selling my bike.

My question is what is; what is the likelyhood of my getting hired after being POST certified?

Expeirences and Suggestion?

[motorman4life]

I went throught the Santa Rosa academy as a non-affiliate and was hired as a lateral. Many departments recruit out of the academy classes and some will pick you up at the 1/2 way point and reimburse you for your tuition and equipment back to the start.

Right now, there are many departments that are hiring like crazy and good applicants are harder to find than good jobs,

If your driving record is all they said was wrong, the only thig that can remedy it is time and keeping your record clean. Of course, the academy will take up time (and money) and will make you a more marketable candidate overall.

Your time and money may be better spent becoming fluent in Spanish. It will also make you more marketable, and it is something a department will want, but won't necessarily pay you to learn. Many departments do pay an incentive for Spanish speakers, as it is a skill that is sorely needed on the streets.

If you are serious about becoming a LEO; keep your record clear, learn Spanish and go on some ride alongs.

If you DO decide to go to an academy, consider that you would be best served going to the academy that is currently used by the agencies you want to work for. Many east bay departments use Oakland's Academy. Many southbay departments use Evergreen. Most peninsula departments use CSM. Northbay departments used Santa Rosa CC.

So, you may want to do more research before you jump in.

[m0moma]

damn so if you have a have points on your drivers license you get disqualified?? =/ err i think i got like 2/3 points, dat blows

how long do points stay on your dmv record?

[JPM]

MM4L covered most of it but first make sure that you are a good candidate and can pass all the requirements / backgrounds before putting yourself through the academy. If you have problems, graduating from an academy will still not override those problems.
I put myself through back in the bad budget days when a lot of agencies were not hiring and even laying off. Out of 75 only 7 were sponsored. A lot of cities are currently having budget problems and are only hiring laterals / academy graduates as they don't want to spend the money to put someone through the academy. Putting yourself through will open your opportunities to more departments.
Also, a lot of east and North Bay departments use with the Contra Costa Sheriff academy or the Napa academy. Napa use to have a part-time evening academy that took longer but still allows you to work part time while attending; don’t know if they still offer it or not.

Good luck.

[JPM]

Originally posted by m0moma
damn so if you have a have points on your drivers license you get disqualified?? =/ err i think i got like 2/3 points, dat blows

how long do points stay on your dmv record?

2 or 3 points and you think that won't affect you being hired? Maybe you should be worried about losing your license. Since you are expected to enforce traffic laws your driving record and habits have a big impact.

What Points Do

As you acquire points on your driving record, you place yourself in danger of losing your driver's license. The DMV has the right to suspend or revoke your driving privileges if you accumulate a certain number of points over a set period of time.

The California DMV may revoke your driver's license if you receive:

Four points within a 12-month period
Six points in a 24-month period
Eight points in a 36-month period
That means if you have three points against your license and it has been over 12 months, you are not out of the woods yet. If you acquire three more points at any time over the next year, you could still lose your license. Even if you should only have one or two more points logged on your driving record over that year, you are still in jeopardy of revocation if, during the third year, two more points are added to your record.

Contrary to popular thought, driving records are not automatically cleared of all points once the points are over a year old.

[bpowa]

thanks for the imputs. Hopefully I can Afford to do this. I will call th academy on monday to get more info.

[nicholonious]

Really try and get sponsored through an agency. An academy is a good $4k in cost. This is money you are losing. By being sponsored by an agency, you are making money at around $5-6k/month. Not complicated figures, but financially is a better option for you.

[bpowa]

I can give up 5k and just sell the bike... trust me I dont want to. but if it means a potential career I will love its ok..

the tough part is not being able to work for 6months.


man I wish I was younger and still lived at home.

[m0moma]

Originally posted by JPM
2 or 3 points and you think that won't affect you being hired? Maybe you should be worried about losing your license. Since you are expected to enforce traffic laws your driving record and habits have a big impact.

What Points Do

As you acquire points on your driving record, you place yourself in danger of losing your driver's license. The DMV has the right to suspend or revoke your driving privileges if you accumulate a certain number of points over a set period of time.

The California DMV may revoke your driver's license if you receive:

Four points within a 12-month period
Six points in a 24-month period
Eight points in a 36-month period
That means if you have three points against your license and it has been over 12 months, you are not out of the woods yet. If you acquire three more points at any time over the next year, you could still lose your license. Even if you should only have one or two more points logged on your driving record over that year, you are still in jeopardy of revocation if, during the third year, two more points are added to your record.

Contrary to popular thought, driving records are not automatically cleared of all points once the points are over a year old.

thank you for the info and making it clear.. kinda made me depressed honestly lol i acquired a big ticket back in 2005 a few weeks after when my father passed away i wasnt thinking right/stressed after work.. i dont drive/ride like a jackass everyday well i guess ill reapply when i have no points even though i got to the PAT portion of the process i wouldnt mind doing it again

[antarius]

MM4L hit the nail on the head.. and I went to the Santa Rosa Academy as well. FYI, Santa Rosa has an extended format academy that might work well for you. I think it's one night a week, and weekends. Might allow you to still work.

144th BLEC!!!

What were you MM4L?

[caballero]

I was a non-affiliate at Evergreen. Yeah it sucks doing push-ups when the guy next to you is getting paid. However, it is NOT losing or wasting your money. You are making an investment in yourself that will pay off in the long run.

You will be much more marketable to smaller agencies or large ones that need to hire people right away and can't wait for 6mos. It also shows incentive that you are really focussed on making this a career. The information you learn will enable you to score much higher on oral boards and give you more confidence as you test.

Good Luck

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by antarius
144th BLEC!!!
What were you MM4L?
I don't even remember. I'd have to dig up the graduation program to see. I was in the extended academy and we graduated with a regular academy class in a joint ceremony.

bpowa, It is a big investment. You are talking about 6 months wages and tuition. I got the VA to pay for mine and I was still on active duty when I went. As much of an investment as it is, I know the departments respect the dedication and sacrafice. OTOH, if you could get sponsored, you would really be ahead of the game. If you learn Spanish, you could use that skill, no matter what you end up doing down the road. The academy is a tough nut to go at all alone. When you are done, you have the skills and qualifications for only 1 career. If something comes up in the meantime to disqualify you (a personal or medical issue) you have nothing to fall back on. That would really suck.

Anyhow, I wish you the best, whatever you choose to do. Now that you realize what some silly traffic tickets can do to your job prospects and future, you should try to share that enlightenment with friends, family and kids. I don't think people consider the ramafications of some of the juvenile stunts they pull.

I stopped a kid last year for passing on the shoulder in heavy traffic. He decided he didn't want to wait for backed up traffic at a collision scene and he drove around everyone on the shoulder. Well, the honking horns got my attention. He tried to get back in to traffic when he saw the cop cars. No one would let his big SUV back into the lane and he ended up rolling right up to the police cars on the shoulder. Well, he had an academy date for CHP and according to him, he was already on the bubble for a red light ticket that was a little over a year old. I cited him and he called my boss to complain that I should have cut him slack because he was trying to get into the CHP. My boss ended up calling a buddy at the academy and there ended up being an extra slot for that particular CHP class.

[slowpoke]

Originally posted by nicholonious
Really try and get sponsored through an agency. An academy is a good $4k in cost. This is money you are losing. By being sponsored by an agency, you are making money at around $5-6k/month. Not complicated figures, but financially is a better option for you.

I think spending $4k is not money lost.

It's money invested for a future career.

[JPM]

Originally posted by m0moma
thank you for the info and making it clear.. kinda made me depressed honestly lol i acquired a big ticket back in 2005 a few weeks after when my father passed away i wasnt thinking right/stressed after work.. i dont drive/ride like a jackass everyday well i guess ill reapply when i have no points even though i got to the PAT portion of the process i wouldnt mind doing it again

Keep in mind that police departments know that humans make mistakes. Give it a year or two and see what happens. They expect people to have made mistakes but what they look for is people that mature, grow up, realize the mistakes they made and don't continue to make them.

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by slowpoke
I think spending $4k is not money lost.

It's money invested for a future career.
In 6 months, you could earn 30-40k of income, plus benefits for your family, plus all meals, equipment and tuition being covered. So, you figure if you are sponsored, you are ahead of the game by 35-50k total. That is a lot. That is a big investment for an agency, but it is an investment they make when they select a new recruit. It is no wonder why pre-trained candidates are so appealing, they essentially save that $35-50k.

If you go it alone, you are not getting any guarantees that you will be hired. If you get injured, no worker's comp, no medical insurance. If you are in a wreck and get fucked up, you have no safety net. If the injury or circumstances prohibit you from being hired, what do you have then?

It is a gamble.

Like I said earlier, learning Spanish is a huge boost in marketability for police nowadays. It is well worth the investment. It could be all that you need to get sponsored and get that $35-50k pay-out! And, if something happens, you have insurance and workers comp to help you out.

Just my 2 cents.

[juha_teuvonnen]

Ok, I am not planning to become LEO at this time. I have a cushy job in the private sector and a 4 grand monthly spousal support payment to make for the next 3 years :(

Just out of curiosity, is it just Spanish that is considered a "marketable skill" and why is it such a big deal? Are other foreign languages "marketable"?

What other things count? For example if I score high in the IPSC competition on regular basis, is that a "marketable skill"?

I can fluently speak 2 languages other than English. If I were to decide to become a LEO, It would probably take me approximately half a year to become fluent in Spanish. It's not that difficult of a language, especially the Mexican variety. The Spanish that's spoken in Spain is a "completely different animal". I dated a Spanish girl once, and when she spoke, she sounded very similar to French. She sounded nothing like my Hispanic friends who are mostly from Mexico and Puerto Rico.

[motorman4life]

The “Spanish-speaking only” community is a pervasive problem in our communities. From TX through AZ, NM and CA it is really a major issue and in many instances, it can be a serious officer-safety issue. Departments are finding Spanish-speakers on their force are a commodity, in great demand.

Tagalog, French, German…. You just don’t have the numbers pr sheer percentages of non-English speakers in those communities. There are a number of reasons for this, but regardless of the reasons, it is not unusual to run into a “Spanish language only” U.S. Citizen that has been here for over 20 years and does not speak enough English to communicate effectively. And, I’m not talking about those that fake it, in order to try to get away with something. I’m talking about people that are victimized on a regular basis, because they are so isolated from our culture that they believe the police here are as corrupt as the police where they came from.

It certainly seems to be a combination of cultural and class factors, as those of any substantial means from Central and South America all seem to be able to converse well in English. I know the various enclaves of Spanish and Chinese speakers seem to be a comfortable place for these immigrants to do business, but in reality, they are doing them a disservice.

Anyhow, to answer the question; many departments do offer language incentives for those that are fluent. Some, for any language. Some, for specified languages. Regardless of if or what they pay, the fact that departments are in dire need of qualified applicants that are fluent in conversational “street” Spanish, cannot be overstressed. Right now, being fluent in Spanish is a major marketing plus.

I suggest to any potential applicant that they learn Spanish if they have any intention of getting hired and/or being successful on the street.

[Defiant]

If it's of any interest to you, CHP is hiring like mad. You're paid to go through the Academy.

[bpowa]

I just called evergreen academy, the lady said you are not going to be POST certified after graduation. One would need to work at a agency for a certain time to get certified.

Can anyone add to how much time or requirements to get POST certified?

Do you have to go through the same process of applying after the academy as oppose to not going?

[caballero]

Graduating the academy gives you a Certificate of Completion for passing the training courses set by POST for the state of CA. It is not a Basic POST Cert. The Basic POST cert. is achieved after you have successfully passed your probation period, usually 18mos.

If at any time during those 18mos. you decide to leave that agency and go to a different one, you will have to start another 18mos time clock at the new agency in order to receive the Basic POST.

Then as you go on in your carreer, you can achieve the Intermediate and Advanced POST certs. I forgot the breakdown with years of service and college degrees, someone here knows it. Almost every agency will add a certain percentage of pay to your check with the completion of these certs.

[nicholonious]

Originally posted by slowpoke
I think spending $4k is not money lost.

It's money invested for a future career.

It's money lost. I see and agree what others have said on this topic. It's true that by paying for it out of your own pocket it demonstrates that you are committed to invest in a career independently without the sponsorship of an agency. And, yes, from speaking to difference officers, including Captains and Sergeants, that they do appreciate the investment in time and money it takes for an individual to go that route.

With that said. The money this is an issue, especially if you live paycheck to paycheck and don't make nearly 6 figures annually. I went on a medical mission to Africa during Summer 2006 for 3 months. I had to raise $1200, pay for a $2000 round trip ticket, buy $600 worth of supplies/clothing, $300 in travel/International SOS insurance, $200 in vaccinations, physicians cert of good health, put aside $1200 for living expenses, which came out to $4300 or so. Include rent that I am paying but am not residing in, and that's a good $600/mo. x 3 = $1800 lost. That's about $6100 lost for volunteering for free. I also lost wages by missing 3 months of work. Set me back A LOT.

I see paying for the academy out of one's pocket as a comparable experience. It's as simple as paying for training (-) VS. getting paid for training (+).

I'm not trying to deter anyone. I'm just trying to be pragmatic.

[berkeleycarlos]

I'm putting myself through the Napa extended format right now.
Cost me $2700. From March-December. It makes each day with commute about a 16hr+ work day.

[creamygoodness]

hey, it beats paramedic school at 10k a year that i'm going to.

[Conallron19]

I also thought about putting myself through ACSO's Academy after being DQ'd by them. I ended up not doing it, here are some things to think about: Can you afford 5k for 6months of training, can you still pay the bills while off work for 6 months, and if you get hurt as a Non-Affiliate you have to pay your own medical bills. If you decide to do a part-time 10 month class, and work 40 hr a week your going to be tired. Its a big scarifice, and one other thing make sure you go to a Academy that the agencies you want to work for accept. Some agencies don't take laterals from other Academies, for example: CHP, LAPD, LASD.

Your driving record is something you need to put time between, its not a lifetime DQ. My recommendation is, just wait it out, going through the Academy is not a guranteed job. It makes you much more attractive to agencies but doesn't mean you will get the job.

[windex]

Originally posted by creamygoodness
hey, it beats paramedic school at 10k a year that i'm going to.

Damn:wow

The one I was looking at was only $4000 for the training and 8 months long. Thats on hold, since I got picked by an agency:teeth

[nicholonious]

Originally posted by windex
Damn:wow

The one I was looking at was only $4000 for the training and 8 months long. Thats on hold, since I got picked by an agency:teeth

Try Stanford med school. $50-60k/year. About $200-240k in debt when you're done. It's a good thing my friend is studying for Ophthalmology. $600-700/year salary.

[bpowa]

taking the written test in 2 weeks.. hoping to attend in august..

it will take spending all my savings and possible sell my bike.. maybe.. but its a gamble I have to take.

and I hate gambling.

[nicholonious]

Originally posted by bpowa
taking the written test in 2 weeks.. hoping to attend in august..

it will take spending all my savings and possible sell my bike.. maybe.. but its a gamble I have to take.

and I hate gambling.

What about having other agencies sponsor you after being accepted. I strongly recommend going this route!

[berkeleycarlos]

I'm going to start putting in apps mid way through. Getting hired and quiting the day job would be sweet.

[Nick]

I don't know if it was covered, but...

Keep in mind the amount of savings you will need. You're not only going to need to pay for the academy, but most academies won't let you have outside work. The academy is your job, and if you're a non-affiliate, you're not getting paid. You'll need a lot of savings to cover 6 months worth of bills/rent/car payments/etc...

[bpowa]

i drive a old 89 truck, and it is PAID FOR; BALLA SHOT CALLA.heheh. and owe about 1500 a month in bills.. including rent and student loans etc..

big risk for me, my life savings is not much. plus not more going out if I get in the academy.

If I dont get hired all I can do is start over. however it will suck.

[berkeleycarlos]

BP what academy are you thinking of? Napa has payment plans if that makes a difference to you.

[JayJ]

Originally posted by juha_teuvonnen
What other things count? For example if I score high in the IPSC competition on regular basis, is that a "marketable skill"?


Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see this question answered. Also, since this is a moto forum, what about having skills as a racer? If you've spent a few years in the trenches and won a race or two, do you mention it? Or does it detract from your application or interview?

[nicholonious]

Jay, I'm not an officer, but I think I can give some feedback that reflects what you're looking for.

Being a racer is good. It automatically shows that you must have some good hand eye coordination and muscle reflex skills. However, that's only one trait that an officer can have while on beat. That being quick on your feet and fast at the wheel.

From my take home message, it seems that critical thinking, good logical and a firm rational thinker proves to be the best test of character. The sergeants, watch commanders, captains, and chiefs seem to be more interested in an officer who can use good verbal skills and have good judgment in situations that are strongly domestic/public, with myriads of different types of personalities.

With that said, I bet you'd be a great in motors.

Ps. if trenches, you mean serving in WWI/WWII, Vietnam, or Iraq...or any other military service, then yes, they definitely like that and BRING IT UP. SFPD gives veteran points to those who served for X amount of months.