question about stolen firearms

[m0moma]

im planning on getting a weapon to go to the range in the future but i was thinking if someone breaks into your house or from your trunk and steals your weapon.. what should you do if you lose a licensed weapon? would you get in trouble if someone uses your stolen weapon to hurt someone else?

[JPM]

Report it stole (Duh). Once that is done you won't get in trouble if it was used by a thief.

[monkeythumpa]

Get a safe. One the size of your fridge will be about $400 and one that holds just one pistol costs about $200.

When I was growing up, we went on vacation and a crew broke into our house. They spent a whole weekend trying to get into our gun safe. They broke their tools, tried our tools and broke them. They gave up after 48 hours. Unfortunately there was a handgun in my parents bedroom that they stole and a few pieces of jewelry, everything else was in the safe. A couple days later, after we reported the gun stolen we got a call from the Bergan County sheriff dept.

The guy who stole it was showing off to his girlfriend by playing Russian roulette. He was cheating and positioning the bullet at the last cylinder position. Except what he didn't know was that a Smith and Wesson revolver rotates counter clockwise. He was dead before he hit the floor. The police returned the gun, although they didn't clean it at all.

[m0moma]

nice... i mean of course ill report it stolen if that happens.... i just want to know what im getting into if invest in a firearm

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by monkeythumpa
The police returned the gun, although they didn't clean it at all. Hmmmm... there is a good one. Who is responsible to clean your gun when someone kills themselves with it?

Actually, you are now responsible to secure all firearms. A trigger lock must be purchased with each gun sale or transfer, unless you complete a "safe affidavit." In accordance with the new laws (since like 2000), if a kid gets ahold of an unsecured firearm, the owner can be held responsible.

=====================
FIREARM SAFETY DEVICE REQUIREMENT
Each firearm sold, transferred, or manufactured in California must be accompanied with a firearm safety device approved by the Department of Justice and identified as appropriate for that firearm. The Department of Justice is required to compile and publish a listing of all of the safety devices that have been determined to meet the department’s standards for firearm safety devices. A list of these devices is available on the Department of Justice Firearms Division website at http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist.htm (Penal Code § 12088.1.)

The term "long-gun safe" is distinct from "gun safe" and "firearms safety device." A "long-gun safe" means a locking container designed to fully contain and secure a rifle or a shotgun. A "long-gun safe" must have a locking system consisting of either a mechanical combination lock or an electronic combination lock that has at least 1,000 possible unique combinations consisting of a minimum of three numbers, letters, or symbols per combination, and that is not listed on the Department of Justice Roster of Firearm Safety Devices (PC § 12087.6).

No person shall keep for commercial sale, commercially sell, or distribute as part of an organized firearm safety program, any firearms safety device (other than a long-gun safe) that is not listed on the Department of Justice roster of approved firearms safety devices.

Any sale of a long gun safe must be accompanied by a specified warning label (Penal Code § 12088.1.)

The Department of Justice Roster of Firearm Safety Devices may be accessed on the Department of Justice website at http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist.htm. Firearm sales and transfers by dealers are exempt from the requirement to provide a firearm safety device if either of the following is true:

- The purchaser demonstrates proof that he or she owns a gun safe that meets the standards set forth in Department of Justice regulations adopted under Penal Code section 12088.2.
- The purchaser presents an approved safety device for the firearm being purchased and provides to the firearms dealer an original receipt showing the purchase took place no more than 30 days prior to picking up the firearm.

============================
12036 PC
(a) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) "Locking device" means a device that is designed to prevent the firearm from functioning and when applied to the firearm, renders the firearm inoperable.

(2) "Child" means a person under the age of 18 years.

(3) "Off-premises" means premises other than the premises where the firearm was stored.

(4) "Locked container" has the same meaning as set forth in subdivision (d) of Section 12026.2.

(b) A person who keeps a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, loaded or unloaded, within any premises that are under his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to that firearm without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and the child obtains access to that firearm and thereafter carries that firearm off-premises, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

(c) A person who keeps any firearm within any premises that is under his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and the child obtains access to the firearm and thereafter carries that firearm off-premises to any public or private preschool, elementary school, middle school, high school, or to any school-sponsored event, activity, or performance whether occurring on school grounds or elsewhere, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

(d) A pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that a child gains access to and carries off-premises in violation of this section shall be deemed "used in the commission of any misdemeanor as provided in this code or any felony" for the purpose of subdivision (b) of Section 12028 regarding the authority to confiscate firearms and other deadly weapons as a nuisance.

(e) This section shall not apply if any one of the following circumstances exists:

(1) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry into any premises by any person.

(2) The firearm is kept in a locked container or in a location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure.

(3) The firearm is locked with a locking device that has rendered the firearm inoperable.

(4) The firearm is carried on the person within such a close range that the individual can readily retrieve and use the firearm as if carried on the person.

(5) The person is a peace officer or a member of the Armed Forces or National Guard and the child obtains the firearm during, or incidental to, the performance of the person's duties.

(6) The child obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person or persons.

(7) The person who keeps a firearm has no reasonable expectation, based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to be present on the premises.

(f) If the person who allegedly violated this section is the parent or guardian of a child who is injured or who dies as the result of an accidental shooting, the district attorney shall consider, among other factors, the impact of the injury or death on the person alleged to have violated this section when deciding whether to prosecute the alleged violation. It is the Legislature's intent that a parent or guardian of a child who is injured or who dies as the result of an accidental shooting shall be prosecuted only in those instances in which the parent or guardian behaved in a grossly negligent manner or where similarly egregious circumstances exist. This subdivision shall not otherwise restrict, in any manner, the factors that a district attorney may consider when deciding whether to prosecute alleged violations of this section.

(g) If the person who allegedly violated this section is the parent or guardian of a child who is injured or who dies as the result of an accidental shooting, no arrest of the person for the alleged violation of this section shall occur until at least seven days after the date upon which the accidental shooting occurred.

In addition to the limitation contained in this subdivision, a law enforcement officer shall consider the health status of a child who suffers great bodily injury as the result of an accidental shooting prior to arresting a person for a violation of this section, if the person to be arrested is the parent or guardian of the injured child. The intent of this subdivision is to encourage law enforcement officials to delay the arrest of a parent or guardian of a seriously injured child while the child remains on life-support equipment or is in a similarly critical medical condition.

(h) (1) The fact that the person who allegedly violated this section attended a firearm safety training course prior to the purchase of the firearm that is obtained by a child in violation of this section shall be considered a mitigating factor by a district attorney when he or she is deciding whether to prosecute the alleged violation.

(2) In any action or trial commenced under this section, the fact that the person who allegedly violated this section attended a firearm safety training course prior to the purchase of the firearm that is obtained by a child in violation of this section, shall be admissible.

(i) Every person licensed under Section 12071 shall post within the licensed premises the notice required by paragraph (7) of subdivision (b) of that section, disclosing the duty imposed by this section upon any person who keeps any firearm.

[monkeythumpa]

Originally posted by motorman4life
Hmmmm... there is a good one. Who is responsible to clean your gun when someone kills themselves with it?

We don't need it detailed, but it would have been nice if the CSI at least knocked the crusty brains/hair globule off the bead. We can take care of the inside.

[JackTheTripper]

Originally posted by motorman4life
Hmmmm... there is a good one. Who is responsible to clean your gun when someone kills themselves with it?

Well I would think it would be common sense not to give something to someone with biohazardous material all over it. **shrug**

[enki]

Originally posted by monkeythumpa
We don't need it detailed, but it would have been nice if the CSI at least knocked the crusty brains/hair globule off the bead. We can take care of the inside.


I would have called the perp's family and asked if they would clean it.

[Bikerx260]

First things first, if you buy a weapon record the serial number and store THAT in a safe place. That way, if it is ever stolen you can help the PO-PO can identify your firearms.

As for what happens you to, it sucks if you live in CA, because the laws are written that anyone can get charged at any time, for anything.

An example is a neighbor that had a safety cap round in his semi-auto handgun. He was pulled over leaving a range in Milpitas, officer asked to open trunk, he does, and gets cited for haveing a 'loaded' firearm.

This is not a hearsay story, because he showed us (neighbor firarms enthusiasts) as soon as he got home!

If a family member steals it or gain access to it, you can be held liable, ESPECIALLY, if you are negligent about securing that weapon.

Motorman again cites the actual codes for you.

[enki]

Sorry, but that's what he gets for volunteering for a search.

Officer: Mind if I search your car?

Me: Yes I do.

[NorCalBusa]

Most, hell- all, police departments have FREE gun locks, just for the asking. If your's doesn't- try a neighboring one or PM me and I'll get you one (but please try to go get your own first).

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by Bikerx260
This is not a hearsay story, because he showed us (neighbor firarms enthusiasts) as soon as he got home!
He showed you what? The gun? A citation? The safety cap?

I call BS on this one. :bs
A safety cap does not constitute a loaded firearm. A gun with a safety cap chambered that has a loaded magazine or live ammo inside or stored with it, that is considered a loaded firearm

[Bikerx260]

MM-
He showed us the firearm in the case with the safety cap in the chamber, AND he showed us the citation, that afternoon when he returned from the range. I KNOW a safety cap doesn't mean its loaded, but he ended up going to court on it and lost.

Most likely because he had a crappy attorney that didn't know firearms.

I'm in RWC, swing by sometime and I'll introduce you to the box of rocks neighbor that got cited.

And, yes enki, he really is almost as smart as a box of rocks!

[monkeythumpa]

Your neighbor is letting others know he has a gun in his house? Maybe I am paranoid from the break in, but my neighbors will never know that I have guns in the house unless I have to use them. That is just asking for a burglary.

It is kind of like why they don't advertise which cars have LoJack.

[Owensdad]

As a card carrying NRA member I don't begrudge anyone's 2nd amendment rights, but here in CA I prefer a scary dog instead.

Less paperwork :teeth

[m0moma]

thanks for clarifying the codes i had a book but i could not find it..

as for having a weapon in his trunk with a safety device in the chamber it should have been locked in a case as well correct?

[RolnCode3]

Originally posted by motorman4life
He showed you what? The gun? A citation? The safety cap?

I call BS on this one. :bs
A safety cap does not constitute a loaded firearm. A gun with a safety cap chambered that has a loaded magazine or live ammo inside or stored with it, that is considered a loaded firearm
+1. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It wouldn't even take a decent attorney to win this...just show that it's not a real cartridge...I don't understand how a prosecutor could make the case...either it's a fired primer, a completely removed primer, or a big red plastic piece with a spring inside.

Or was he cited for the firearm not being inside a locked container?

PC 12025(a)(1) coupled with PC 12026.1.

Originally posted by JackTheTripper
Well I would think it would be common sense not to give something to someone with biohazardous material all over it. **shrug**
Generally, dried blood that has been exposed to the atmosphere for any length of time, would not be considered biohazard. Any bad stuff (viruses, pathogens, or whatever) can't survive the exposure. It'd just be messy.

[brichter]

Originally posted by monkeythumpa
Get a safe. One the size of your fridge will be about $400 and one that holds just one pistol costs about $200.


Where can I get one the size of my fridge for $400? :wtf

All of the ones I see that size are $1500+.

[splat]

Originally posted by brichter
Where can I get one the size of my fridge for $400? :wtf

All of the ones I see that size are $1500+.

Not quite as big as a fridge, but here goes a nice one that'll do it's job for under $400.

Of course if you want one with digital code access, thumb print, burl wood laminination, fancy pin striping, or what not, it'll cost a little more. This model would be perfect for a linen closet, or tucked away in a corner.

If all you have is a handgun, save some money and get the smaller one, just make sure it's bolted to the ground and or wall. It's much easier for a thief to take that, than it is for them to take a larger one. Do not buy the inwall safe. I've never seen a non-commercial grade wall safe that couldn't be torn out in a matter of minutes. Generally they're shallow, thin, and mount with small drywall screws, and flat so they're concealable with a picture.

:EDIT:Probably would be nice if i left a link, huh? well, here goes.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=125842-26605-E5251&lpage=none

[monkeythumpa]

Originally posted by brichter
Where can I get one the size of my fridge for $400? :wtf

All of the ones I see that size are $1500+.

Granted, it is the size of a small fridge. I have seen them sold for as low as $150 but the metal is so thin a knife could puncture it, they are really just for keeping the guns out of your kid's hands. If you want a safe that will keep burglars out, you need to spend at least $400, Traders in San Leandro sells better ones for $669. You get what you pay for.

http://www.tradersports.com/specials.htm

[brichter]

Originally posted by splat

If all you have is a handgun,

:rofl


Thanks for the link though, I've only seen a couple of stores with safes down here and they're all a lot more than that.

[WinterSF]

costco sells them, and they will deliver it too. Not too expensive either

[brichter]

Sorry, I don't do costco. :teeth

Got tired of spending my life in their line to save a buck on a 55 gal. drum of mayo. :laughing

[motorman4life]

Originally posted by brichter
Sorry, I don't do costco. :teeth

Got tired of spending my life in their line to save a buck on a 55 gal. drum of mayo. :laughing But, I have learned so many uses for mayo... as furniture polish, shampoo, soil amendment and axle lube! :laughing

Seriously, back to the B.S. call.. If I arrested someone on a weapons charge (yes, even a citation is an arrest, particularly for a misdemeanor violation), I would seize the weapon and ammo as evidence. I don't know any cop that wouldn't, short of DF&G Officers. The fact that he had the gun when he got home is proof enough for me that he was cited for something else.

I have arrested on very few firearms violations in y career, but I have confiscated the firearm and any associated ammo in EVERY CASE where a misdemeanor citation or felony booking were the end-result. So, it makes no sense to me at all.

Maybe you can find out what code section he was actually cited and ultimately convicted for?

[antarius]

Plus, if it was a true trunk it wouldn't have to be in a locked case.... it's already in one! (the trunk)

[brichter]

There are some special caveats as to the location of loaded magazines that I don't care to look up the actual code on right now, I just travel with no rounds in the magazines.

A firearm transported in a locked case with loaded magazine(s) in the same case is considered to be loaded, IIRC.