suspension 101

[uraniaclio]

Please excuse me if this has been covered. I did a search for suspension basics and it brought up the kitchen sink. :p

I was working with Dave Moss on Sunday. He had my bike set up at Infineon and rode really well. But I found it a bit too harsh on some of the bumps at T-Hill. He took out some of the preload and that's where the fun started. I could definitely feel that the suspension felt different. And I was definitely not comfortable. So I went back to Dave and he asked me what I was feeling. I couldn't really tell him. It felt "swimmy" (I think that's the word I used). He changed the compression damping and I was getting spooked that my rear felt different (I could've sworn it slipped a couple of times gassing coming out of turns). We ended up reverting back to the original settings because I felt most comfortable (most used to it). I was bugging when we reverted back because it felt different from the new settings to which I was getting accustomed.

So my point is that I'm so ignorant of suspension basics that I couldnt even describe the feedback I was getting. And definitely not able to provide any useful information running a few laps on new settings.

So here's my question - what are some of the basic suspension feedbacks I should be paying attention to? And what affects what?

[MackeyStingray]

what does it feel like when you enter a corner? midcorner? exiting the corner?

try to attend gary jaehne's suspension clinics held @ doc wong's office. they're free

[Hooli]

^^^^^What he said. :)

[elaineo]

Here is a good link that explains suspension basics, what to look for, and it describes suspension feedback in lay terms. it helped me out when i first started trying to tweak my suspension.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0006_susp/

also, could you please change your avatar? i try to avoid clicking on your posts because i don't want to see your pasty white inner thigh.

your friend,
Elaine

[uraniaclio]

Originally posted by elaineo

also, could you please change your avatar? i try to avoid clicking on your posts because i don't want to see your pasty white inner thigh.

your friend,
Elaine

I just got p0wned. Ouch. :(

Are u Elaine who punks 600 newbs on RS 125 and pits with Kensaku? I saw you pull your forks and that was really hawte. :p

I'll change my avatar. U can see my pasty white armpits now. :p

[elaineo]

Haha, nice to meet you, and thanks :)

[uraniaclio]

Originally posted by elaineo
Haha, nice to meet you, and thanks :)

Same here. Much easier to meet at track days pitting next to each other. :p

My head is hurting from reading the link u sent me.
Good stuff.

[lokisdog]

So one issue that many riders encounter, esp. newer ones, is the fact that in the beginning your attention is so used up by just riding that it's hard to feel and process everything that is happening, much less describe it. As you get more comfortable riding at your pace you'll have more attention span freed up to start focusing on how the bike feels and really get your head around classifying those sensations. At the really early stages it's difficult to detect small changes, often even large changes because your focus is so intent on just getting around the track.

Also, when you're newer you're more likely to get freaked out when you do notice something different due to a change Dave may have made, and because confidence is so important in this game you can't give the change enough seat time to really feel it and understand it, you want to go back to 'the devil you know' because the changes are so radical you can't deal with them. This too goes away with time.

Don't worry so much about having the right words or the correct vocabulary either. A word like 'swimmy' can tell a lot if it has context.

Start with these 5 things:

1) What does it feel like? "the front wheel bounces up and down really fast" is just as informative as "I'm getting some front-end chatter"

2) What are you doing when it happens? Are you on the brakes? Tipping it in? Getting on the gas on the exit? Once again, you're trying to provide context.

3) Where on the track does it happen? Does it happen only there or other spots too?

4) Are you doing anything different in your riding? Have you started braking harder into turn 14 for example?

5) Have you changed ANYTHING? Even things that don't seem like they might matter may, e.g. you put on race bodywork and went from the stock exhaust to a full Ti system. Now the bike is lighter and you're probably making more HP, maybe your suspension needs a slight adjustment.

So if you told Dave for example "I just went from Dunlop slicks to Bridgestones DOT's and suddenly the bike feels heavy when I ride it", Dave may think 'Hmmm, need to change the geometry due to differences in tire diameter and profile' or "After we did the braking class at the Keigwin's Intermediate school I'm braking harder into turn 14 but now the rear end feels like it wants to wiggle around", Dave maybe says "let's check how much fork travel you're using" thinking you may be bottoming and need some preload added.

The more context you give Dave the more he can ask questions to pinpoint the issue.

The rest is seat time and getting comfortable with all the other aspects of your riding so you can focus on the sensations. Once you can focus on them you can describe them.

[dubels]

http://cbrworld.net/forums/thread/112.aspx if you cant see if because you arent a member then pm I have save them all in PDF including the Dave Moss ones. Dave Moss also has a dvd that I think I might buy.

[uraniaclio]

Originally posted by lokisdog
So one issue that many riders encounter, esp. newer ones, is the fact that in the beginning your attention is so used up by just riding that it's hard to feel and process everything that is happening, much less describe it. As you get more comfortable riding at your pace you'll have more attention span freed up to start focusing on how the bike feels and really get your head around classifying those sensations. At the really early stages it's difficult to detect small changes, often even large changes because your focus is so intent on just getting around the track.

Also, when you're newer you're more likely to get freaked out when you do notice something different due to a change Dave may have made, and because confidence is so important in this game you can't give the change enough seat time to really feel it and understand it, you want to go back to 'the devil you know' because the changes are so radical you can't deal with them. This too goes away with time.

Don't worry so much about having the right words or the correct vocabulary either. A word like 'swimmy' can tell a lot if it has context.

Start with these 5 things:

1) What does it feel like? "the front wheel bounces up and down really fast" is just as informative as "I'm getting some front-end chatter"

2) What are you doing when it happens? Are you on the brakes? Tipping it in? Getting on the gas on the exit? Once again, you're trying to provide context.

3) Where on the track does it happen? Does it happen only there or other spots too?

4) Are you doing anything different in your riding? Have you started braking harder into turn 14 for example?

5) Have you changed ANYTHING? Even things that don't seem like they might matter may, e.g. you put on race bodywork and went from the stock exhaust to a full Ti system. Now the bike is lighter and you're probably making more HP, maybe your suspension needs a slight adjustment.

So if you told Dave for example "I just went from Dunlop slicks to Bridgestones DOT's and suddenly the bike feels heavy when I ride it", Dave may think 'Hmmm, need to change the geometry due to differences in tire diameter and profile' or "After we did the braking class at the Keigwin's Intermediate school I'm braking harder into turn 14 but now the rear end feels like it wants to wiggle around", Dave maybe says "let's check how much fork travel you're using" thinking you may be bottoming and need some preload added.

The more context you give Dave the more he can ask questions to pinpoint the issue.

The rest is seat time and getting comfortable with all the other aspects of your riding so you can focus on the sensations. Once you can focus on them you can describe them.

Yeah. I hear u. I need to remember which turns and bumps cause me the most consternation. Dave will work with you until the end of the day. I just need to learn more to help him out.

[Kensaku]

Originally posted by uraniaclio
I just got p0wned. Ouch. :(

Are u Elaine who punks 600 newbs on RS 125 and pits with Kensaku? I saw you pull your forks and that was really hawte. :p

I'll change my avatar. U can see my pasty white armpits now. :p

You should attend Elaine's clinic on how to pass, shake head, and steer wide.

[uraniaclio]

Originally posted by Kensaku
You should attend Elaine's clinic on how to pass, shake head, and steer wide.

Hehe. u making fun of me or her? :laughing

[elaineo]

he's making fun of me because on sunday, i passed him going into T10, and then i shook my head at him to make him feel like a loser, and then i started laughing about how i pulled such an awesome move, and then i forgot to turn in because i was laughing so hard, and then i almost ran off the track and had to run wide around the turn, and then i blew the next 3 turns because it was so funny. we scared the crap out of the people behind us.

yeah, you should stay away from AFM riders at trackdays, they are way dangerous.

[uraniaclio]

Originally posted by elaineo
he's making fun of me because on sunday, i passed him going into T10, and then i shook my head at him to make him feel like a loser, and then i started laughing about how i pulled such an awesome move, and then i forgot to turn in because i was laughing so hard, and then i almost ran off the track and had to run wide around the turn, and then i blew the next 3 turns because it was so funny. we scared the crap out of the people behind us.

yeah, you should stay away from AFM riders at trackdays, they are way dangerous.

:)

[Kensaku]

Whatever advice Elaine gives you, just do the opposite and you'll be fine.