Trackdays, Racing and Pain: When is Enough Enough?

[Christieland]

Do any of you do trackdays or race with chronic injuries or pain? If so, does doing so increase your risk for making your injuries worse?

Older guys, do you feel you’re any more inclined to keep banging your body to pieces in this sport because you feel you’ve already been living a full life, and you want to keep living life to the fullest?

Younger guys, do you ever think about how trackdays or racing with pain or injuries might make your later years really rough? As in, walker rough, or wheelchair rough, or simply not being able to do the things that you love anymore?

I ask for a few reasons. This past week I met two brothers, Pat and Fred; Pat’s 58 and Fred’s 62. They had just done the Freddie Spencer School, and Fred banged the hell out of himself highsiding during the dirt biking portion of the class. That was Thursday, I was talking with them Friday, and even though the one guy could hardly walk, has diabetes and a heart condition, he told me they were still planning to rent Harleys the next day and go cruising around the mountains outside of Las Vegas. To me, I hear this and think this is bad ass, and that I’d like to still be beasting like that when I’m a little old lady.

Also, at an AFM race last year I witnessed something pretty damned amazing. Michael Earnest (http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179946) had a pretty bad crash in Formula Pacific and I think even may have fractured his femur (I’m not positive about this), yet he still found a bike and went back out there to race, like, ten minutes later. It was incredible and I was in complete and total awe of him. I admire this drive to put pain aside and still compete, and I've done it myself hundreds of times as a competitive college tennis player, but do you think the risks of further injury are worth the rewards?

And then of course there is Budman (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197471&highlight=budman+knee+joint+replacement), who has a history of school sports and was contemplating joint replacement so he could continue sport riding, even though he can still live a normal, healthy live and even teach aerobics. Why do we put ourselves through this kind of pain and trauma to keep riding? No one’s winning any trophies. Well, some are, but even then, very few of us will put our names in the record books or make MotoGP salaries as a result of our hobbies.

I’d love to hear your thoughts. Please tell me how you reconcile your love of sport riding or racing with your physical limitations. Also, if you were young and already suffering with chronic pain as a result of college sports, would you continue throwing yourself into this physically demanding sport? I mean, given that you’d like to live a long, healthy and happy life, too?

Thanks! :)
Christie

[joe]

short sight can be a fantastic thing, and usually goes hand in hand with regret. On the other hand, I think most of us who have very thorough and passionate reasons for being involved in competition would contest that those things that characteristically accompany competition are worth their weight in gold, and life must have them to be considered robust (not neccisarily via motorcycle racing).

The real answer is don't throw yourself down the road too much!

[Ratters]

Well, luckily I haven't hurt myself too bad on motorcycles but tennis really worked my ankles, wrist and back. But I'd just keep playing. It was just hard to stop. Now for the past two months my wrist has been killing me from playing tennis so I stopped. I just don't seem to heal the way I used to. But I just put on a wrist brace and suck it up on the bike. Fun>pain. But with tennis I really got to let it heal before I play again.

Shit hurts, but joe is right: minimize your injuries so you can do this stuff longer. Don't take stupid risks and stay in shape. If you do that you can do this for a very long time.

Though I must admit Supercamp just absolutely kicked my ass because I'm so out of shape. They really mean it when they say to do some leg workouts for a while before the camp.

[Sane_Man]

I think Michael was still high on adrenaline and didn't know he broke his femur until he finished the race.

As long as they make pain reliever's to take the edge off, people will push through the pain doing something they love.

[evilsv]

My right leg still isn't healed from a torn hamstring, over a year ago. My left toe was stubbed, and still isn't quite right.

But the excitement and passion in me lives above all of that. The hamstring will heal with time, the toe may never.

I love this addiction.

[uraniaclio]

I crashed on Oct 7th and rode on Oct 8th with torn cartilage, severe contusions, strained MCL, and infected left knee.

I rode because I didnt want to waste a track day fee. Aint nothing admirable about that. Kinda stupid actually. That's how my knee got infected. I know of few others who've ridden with torn rotator cuff, etc. $250 is $250.

[Zerox]

There's one guy Mark from Redding who was seriously injured in a car crash years ago. He still gets out there and rides the hell out of his trackbikes, though he's in chronic pain.

I've been riding and racing on racetracks for many years and so far the worst injury is a badly sprained ankle...and I hope it stays that way! This sport is really too fun to give up. I plan on doing this til I'm old and gray.

[rumblephish]

I can't wait for my ribs to heal up so i can get back out there with you guys!

having said that... I'm going to take full advantage of this time to heal up and make sure my injuries are 100% healed before I go lay them on the line again. I don't think it's very smart at all for riders (or any other group) to try and come back to dangerous physical activity when they haven't healed up properly. I know a lot of guys think "Yeah, but I'm tough. I can take it!" but they don't think of the consequences of their actions. An injury that seems mior today may turn into a mojor problem 20 years from now. As a participant in the dangerous but amazing sport, I'm fully aware of the dangers and I choose to minimize them as much as possible.

I think this one saying says it all.........





"STUPID HURTS"

[quasi888]

Whether doing trackdays or racing, striving for 1:55s or 2:25s, battling for 1st or 51st, paid to do it or pay to do it, we continue to do it because for a few fleeting moments in our lives, it makes us feel like rockstars. And who ever said trying to be a rockstar was logical?

[Dar25]

I admired Michael's unbelieveable will and drive to get back into the race after a big crash and with some seriously broken bones. He is an Iron Man. :thumbup

On the other hand risking your life and long term health for a few points in a club race may seem like an overkill. :wow

But then again, you can't always apply logic to these things. I mean paying money to ride in circles while risking your life... Come on! :laughing
Better to stay home and watch other crazies do that on TV instead. :teeth

[Wet Shrub]

Bayliss.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Apr/070413rd8.htm

[afm199]

Michael did not break a bone, however he was in serious pain.

I'll be 62 in 9 months. I still work out, run (can not do hills anymore, I used to run the Dipsea as an invitational runner (top 100) and the double dipsea), rode 60 trackdays a couple years ago, and am still racing after a ten year hiatus.

I listen to the pain to some extent. Though when I tore my knee cartilage in 79 they told me I was fucked, I ran a marathon and several dipseas after that. It hurt some.

As far as bikes, I listen to the pain that can not be ignored. My knees have twice forced me to take off six months or a a year or more. When they are really bad I can't weight a peg. Other stuff, again, I listen to the pain. I had to wrap my wrists to ride the 1000rr as the braking was killing them. I don't have to wrap them with the SV.

Christie I know you are in some pain. I suspect you take a fistful of ibuprofen on track days like me. (Gotta be careful with it, it will fuck your stomach up big time).. I think it just becomes a matter of when the pain is so intense it overcomes the fun, that's when we stop. I competed in 10k race a year after tearing cartilage and got a second in age group and 17th overall out of 400 men, and my knee hurt every step of the way. But I love the thrill of winning.

Ernie

[F4iChic]

Originally posted by quasi888
Whether doing trackdays or racing, striving for 1:55s or 2:25s, battling for 1st or 51st, paid to do it or pay to do it, we continue to do it because for a few fleeting moments in our lives, it makes us feel like rockstars. And who ever said trying to be a rockstar was logical?

:thumbup

with chronic pain from herniated disc, sciatica, jangled nerves from fear, panic attacks to overcome, crying and beating up on myself for being so crappy

I still kept going back and doing it, one more time, one more time. And, I once saw a 2:22 on my laptimer at THill, I don't care if it was wrong, I saw it, I rode it, that laptime is MINE :laughing and I don't care if it is still slow, I started at 4 minutes per track. Didn't matter what track it was, it took me four minutes to get round :laughing :cry :laughing Then my mantra became "3 minute Queen, all tracks, three minutes"

Now I am retired. Sponsoring a racer in all their endeavours can leave ya pretty broke.

[racercutie]

I have osteoarthritis and a couple of old avulsion fractures in my left wrist from an old sports injury.
I've had 3 surgeries to my wrist and have had a custom wrist brace made so I can ride the track (I basically lack cartilage between a couple of my wrist bones so it's bone on bone).

I just can't push it otherwise I'll probably screw it up again, then get more scar tissue scraped out.
I don't want to get to the point where the pain is so bad I can't ride so I'm trying to take a break and take care of it first.

I haven't been back on the track in almost a year, but I'm anxious to get back.

[ianG]

Originally posted by rumblephish
"STUPID HURTS"

Hey, I resemble that remark! :p

And remember Eric, doctors don't know everything. ;)

[Christieland]

Thanks for the thoughts and stories everyone. I'm still in a honeymoon phase with riding, I suppose; every time I'm on the track my lap times improve and the rush of feeling like I've accomplished something gets more and more difficult to walk away from.

But yeah, I've got two torn discs in my low back, and in the past year since I was diagnosed it's only gotten worse. I stopped playing tennis, I started various forms of physical therapy, I train hard in the gym, my core is stronger than it's ever been, and yet the back is worse now than it was a year ago. Last week I pitched myself off of a dirt bike a couple of times, and now my leg is going numb from the herniated discs. I want to keep riding but am concerned about the long term damage I might be doing to myself.

Ernie, when you took six months off for your knees, did you decide that ahead of time? Or just day by day, say to yourself, no, I'm just not quite ready to go yet?

Wendy, I'm glad you posted, I remember you saying in that other thread that no matter how much pain you were in you were still there at the track. You do feel like a rock star, especially when you see those lap times come down and you have a goal of getting them down even more.

I don't know what the answer is, I wasn't really looking to bare my soul to barf and have you tell me what to do, but I wanted to hear what other people's experiences were. Thanks for posting everyone! :thumbup

[afm199]

Originally posted by Christieland


Ernie, when you took six months off for your knees, did you decide that ahead of time? Or just day by day, say to yourself, no, I'm just not quite ready to go yet?

:thumbup

I took of time till my knees stopped hurting at all. The right knee whacked a handlebar when I went over the bars after hitting deer and then I landed on lt. I limped for months. Eventually it stopped hurting. It hurt bad enough that it was almost impossible to ride comfortably cuz I could not weight a peg at all.

[mgb]

I played hockey in college and now, a decade and change later, I have two thrashed knees and a bad back to show for it. While I was playing I twice had docs tell me I should stop, that I was on a path toward total reconstructive surgery on my left knee if I didn’t. At the time, I didn’t give the potential consequences a second thought and kept playing. I did the PT though, and spent hours icing, strengthening, and stretching to avoid further injury. I guess it worked – I never ended up needing the surgery.

Things are a little different now though. For me, there’s a big difference between enduring pain to do something you love and accepting permanent debilitation for the same. When I was younger and playing for more than just fun, there was no way a doctor was going to keep me off the ice. Now though, if a doctor told me that track days were doing more damage to my knees or back such that I was likely to eventually lose the ability to walk, I’d hang up my leathers.

My back still hurts for a few days after almost every track day, but I’m not doing any more damage to it just by riding, and the pain alone is not enough to stop me. My knees are pretty much OK on the bike, though my left one occasionally yells at me when hanging off to the left.

We all accept a significant risk of injury due to crashing, but knowing that I might hurt myself is very different in my mind than knowing that riding is most likely going to leave me hobbled. At this stage in my life, given that track riding is just for fun and that, as Christie said, there are no trophies or racer paychecks in my future, I wouldn’t trade my ability to walk in 30 years for the thrill of the track today.

James

[racercutie]

You can never quit. I know I'll never quit riding or doing trackdays and like you, I'll be some old goat on the track when I'm 80 years old!

A couple of years ago at Las Vegas Motor Speedway I met an instructor on the track showing me some good lines. I noticed his bike was rigged in a weird way thinking it was some sort of a teaching bike.

Well it was late in the day. I was getting sore and tired and wondering if I should do another session when the same track instructor, friendly as can be, came up to greet me in his wheelchair.
I just about cried. Not because I felt sorry for this guy (as I did not, he was totally awesome!), but I felt sorry for myself for all those times I've complained about my wrist, my knees, my back, this or that, blah blah.
Here's this guy who can't even walk who's riding and having a blast on the track, his bike rigged with wheels that move up at a certain speed when he's on the track.
I wish I could have remembered his name right now. He's from Utah.
He continues to inspire me to this day.

[DucatiHoney]

All things in moderation...

Is getting your laptimes down a good enough reason to not be able to pick up your children in the future? All things come with risk, but you're dealing with a known fact staring you in the face. Is there anything you can do to minimize the trauma you're doing to your body? What about a different bike? Riding less? Some injuries are more easily lived with than others--backs don't generally fall into that category. I'd power through a finicky wrist or a balled up knee for many years, and in fact, have. I don't know if I'd want to mess around with a tweaked back for the rest of my life, however. Definitely not worth it if it were me. Good luck with your decision. :)

[joe]

What always suprises me is the commitement people have to things while distinctly lacking what most of us would consider "good" reasons.

Far be it from me to tell you what to and not to do, but reason seems to dictate that what you get out of an activity like racing can be found other places; places that might not put the same strain on your body.

Ever notice how many people stop riding/racing when they get into a big accident? I'd venture to say that while stupid may hurt, reality bites.

[rumblephish]

Christie, if you're hurting and you need to tend to your back then do it. It doesn't mean you have to walk away from riding. Just take a leave, heal up, get your ills sorted out then come back fresh. The track will always be there, but the good Lord only gave you one body (and in your case, VERY nice one :) ) so take good care of it. I'm going nutso not riding this year. I only got one decent track day in before I went down. But I'll heal up and come back stronger next season.

[rumblephish]

Originally posted by joe
Ever notice how many people stop riding/racing when they get into a big accident? I'd venture to say that while stupid may hurt, reality bites.


Everyone has an "acceptance" level. A level at which they can no longer justify their sport or hobby against thier fear or reason. It's different with everyone. My best buddy lost his leg to a Honda CR500 back in '86 and he now has a killer ZX12 that he takes to the track and any twisty road he can find. Liek I said, it's different for everyone....

[racercutie]

Originally posted by racercutie
You can never quit. I know I'll never quit riding or doing trackdays and like you, I'll be some old goat on the track when I'm 80 years old!

A couple of years ago at Las Vegas Motor Speedway I met an instructor on the track showing me some good lines. I noticed his bike was rigged in a weird way thinking it was some sort of a teaching bike.

Well it was late in the day. I was getting sore and tired and wondering if I should do another session when the same track instructor, friendly as can be, came up to greet me in his wheelchair.
I just about cried. Not because I felt sorry for this guy (as I did not, he was totally awesome!), but I felt sorry for myself for all those times I've complained about my wrist, my knees, my back, this or that, blah blah.
Here's this guy who can't even walk who's riding and having a blast on the track, his bike rigged with wheels that move up at a certain speed when he's on the track.
I wish I could have remembered his name right now. He's from Utah.
He continues to inspire me to this day.
Sorry pic didn't come out:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/200/220/3087028-crw_5445_1_.jpg

[Holeshot]

Christie, I believe you're getting some poor advice in some respects. A crippled person with little to no chance at recovery should make do and work within their limitations to do whatever they see fit to do. Someone who has an injury that needs time to heal, yet refuses to do so, is being stubborn and, IMO very short sighted. You're far too smart to take that approach.

Professional racers don't even "press on" when they face an injury. They understand that not taking a break and healing/ rehabbing correctly will mean a short career in this sport. You MUST not be stubborn here. There's no trophies for doing what you're doing, but there will be if you can heal up and rehab your back as you should. You're not 65, you're not making money doing this, and you're far too smart, pretty, and energetic to be stubborn here. Don't go fuck yourself up because you were too eager to "ride". It's not worth that...especially when you can and will be back to 100% with the correct applications.

That's as nice as I get. I actually give a shit that you do this the correct way and don't ruin yourself for the future.

[afm199]

I'll second that. If you are in pain and it is getting worse, count on that being a message. I have run through pain, but even then I was never pushing the pain levels like pro athletes do. Healing takes time and it works. I have taken time off more than once for my knees and never regretted it.

[Zerox]

Originally posted by Holeshot
Professional racers don't even "press on" when they face an injury. They understand that not taking a break and healing/ rehabbing correctly will mean a short career in this sport.

No way, the pro racers always ride hurt, against doctor's orders. They're getting paid to race and they don't want to lose their job or a points lead. Broken collarbone? "Plate it, doc, and hand me my helmet." ;)

It's not a job for most of us it's a hobby, so we should definitely get healthy first.

[Snoggin]

J car relate.I have had two back surgeries in the last ten years. J have to say also that both have been successful. After the first J spent ten years skiing hard even heliSkiing the Chugach in Alaska.
Sometimes it is a good option. Try the pt firsT for sure but after awhile sometimes you just need to clean things out of there.

[Kensaku]

Originally posted by Snoggin
J car relate.I have had two back surgeries in the last ten years. J have to say also that both have been successful. After the first J spent ten years skiing hard even heliSkiing the Chugach in Alaska.
Sometimes it is a good option. Try the pt firsT for sure but after awhile sometimes you just need to clean things out of there.

Let me translate...

J = I

Tim, use a friggin keyboard!!!

[DucatiHoney]

Originally posted by Kensaku
Let me translate...

J = I

Tim, use a friggin keyboard!!!

:laughing

[lokisdog]

Originally posted by Kensaku
Let me translate...

J = I

Tim, use a friggin keyboard!!!

I thought is was just an object lesson is what happens when you ride hurt, in Tim's case with a herniated brain ... ;-)

So seriously, I have to agree completely with Berto on this one.

Now to start with I’ve done lots of things hurt when I should have sat down and chilled, sometimes it worked out ok, but I get reminded every so often of times when I should have taken it easy but didn’t and now have permanent motion restrictions or other limitations that I’d rather not have. Brave and stupid go hand in hand; often the only difference is a positive outcome and a good press agent…

I’ll be 45 years old this year, and one thing that really hit me when I turned 40 was how long life is. Most folks worry about how short life is, try to cram everything in before it’s time to go. But really, not withstanding an accident that cuts your life short, the average life is really long and can hold a lot of stuff. The future is all about promise and unexplored options and it would be a shame for you or anyone to make a decision that traded the ability to do whatever you want 15, 20 or even 30 years from now for a year or two of short-term riding “fun” which, from all accounts isn’t really that fun for you since you’re in pain and can’t ride to your fullest potential.

Also, since you aren’t riding at 100% remember that you are more of a danger to yourself and others. If you can’t move like you should out there on the track then you’re taking a greater risk than normal not just with yourself but with the rest of us.

There’s a big difference between riding with an injury that you know will heal ok regardless, but would heal faster if you just didn’t ride for a while, and riding when you know you could be doing long-term damage to yourself with life-long limitations as the consequence. Trading a season of riding to recuperate fully is well worth it in the long-term, I don’t know how old you are but it’s my guess you have a few decades still in front of you. It would suck to live them impaired and not able to do what you want.

The racers I respect the most aren’t the ones who go the fastest, but the ones who’ve lasted the longest. They also tend to be very very fast, because they’re smart and they have accumulated a wealth of knowledge and skill that can only come with time.

Here’s my last one and then I’ll shut up: You already know the answer, deep in your gut, otherwise you wouldn’t be conflicted and asking all us yahoo’s for our opinion. Go sit still for 5 minutes and look yourself in the mirror, you know the right thing to do, just accept it and move on.

[Christieland]

Thanks for the posts, everyone, I do know the answer but have enjoyed hearing peoples' stories and perspectives. In another thread Wendy mentioned that no matter what kind of pain she was in, she'd still show up at the track, and I saw a lot of myself in that attitude, as well as having seen it in many others in this sport. People are such funny creatures...I like what joe said, "what always surprises me is the commitment people have to things while distinctly lacking what most of us would consider 'good' reasons."

[rumblephish]

Originally posted by Holeshot
Christie, I believe you're getting some poor advice in some respects. A crippled person with little to no chance at recovery should make do and work within their limitations to do whatever they see fit to do. Someone who has an injury that needs time to heal, yet refuses to do so, is being stubborn and, IMO very short sighted. You're far too smart to take that approach.

Professional racers don't even "press on" when they face an injury. They understand that not taking a break and healing/ rehabbing correctly will mean a short career in this sport. You MUST not be stubborn here. There's no trophies for doing what you're doing, but there will be if you can heal up and rehab your back as you should. You're not 65, you're not making money doing this, and you're far too smart, pretty, and energetic to be stubborn here. Don't go fuck yourself up because you were too eager to "ride". It's not worth that...especially when you can and will be back to 100% with the correct applications.

That's as nice as I get. I actually give a shit that you do this the correct way and don't ruin yourself for the future.


Is there an echo in here?

isn't this basiclly what I said a few posts earlier?!?

[rumblephish]

Originally posted by rumblephish
Christie, if you're hurting and you need to tend to your back then do it. It doesn't mean you have to walk away from riding. Just take a leave, heal up, get your ills sorted out then come back fresh. The track will always be there, but the good Lord only gave you one body (and in your case, VERY nice one :) ) so take good care of it. I'm going nutso not riding this year. I only got one decent track day in before I went down. But I'll heal up and come back stronger next season.


yep, there it is.... :teeth

[clutchslip]

Stuff hurts. I can't do things I once did. My shoulder is too weak to surf worth a damn. I make adjustment on a sport bike.

I had a rod removed from my femur ( a result of a head-on with a car) so that I could ride and hopefully race again.

I don't want to be crippled. I was in a bed/wheel-chair for a year from that accident. So I worry about trying too hard and I'm paranoid about other people on the track.

But I'm still going. I thought Sunday at Thunderhill was going to be the end for me because of "the" accident. But, I rode Monday.

Just sharing....No specific point.

[Holeshot]

Originally posted by rumblephish
Is there an echo in here?

isn't this basiclly what I said a few posts earlier?!?

It is. Sorry to be the echo Rumble...I was plagiarizing you!

[Nemo Brinker]

Christie,
I had to learn about long-term pain management at a young age--I fell off a cliff in Yosemite at age 13, and shattered my 5th lumbar vertebra. I spent several months in a very large cast and had a lot of physical therapy and chiropractice work to recover). Managing my back problems since then has been a lifelong endeavor. Some things that help me keep going (and allow me to keep doing things like riding my bike to Montana, rock climbing, martial arts, backpacking, manual labor, etc.):

listening to that voice in my head that whispers "pace yourself, grasshopper,"

Healing completely between injuries, even if it makes me grit my teeth in frustration,

Making myself devote the resources to getting good bodywork (traditional medicine/painkillers when necessary, massage, acupuncture).

You're the wisest one to decide about your own body. Good luck!