i dropped my bike again today ! [Archive] - BARF

motonewbie

04-23-2007, 01:46 AM

alright I am so angry. I've had my bike for almost a month (been riding for the same amount of time) and I dropped it today for the SIXTH time! Same stupid situation as before (die out with wheel turned on an incline or hill).

What was special about today was that I was going up a steep ass hill and I had to keep looking behind me for my very very newbie friend rider who just got an R6S two days ago. I tried to pull over at the top of the hill and all I remember is kinda struggling to get the wheel to turn back left to straighten it, I didn't pull in the clutch and the bike died out while the wheel was to the right and BAM. I didn't even notice that my mirror was on someone's lawn 10 feet away.

Today was the worse. My bike hit the curb and the bar end took a hit, my mirror broke, and my headlight fairing is cracked and scratched.

I am not worried about the damage because I can ghetto rig everything back together but I am really mad that I keep making the same mistake. It's like one day I'll be having so much fun, perfecting everything I do, then the next day I'll mess up. MY confidence is wearing thin. Besides the MSF course I've ridden my bike about 2-300 miles only.

I use to have a problem with slow speed parking lot manaveur but I've learned how to use clutch control so thats one thing thats good, but I keep losing my balance at these off center wheel stops.

Did anyone have this problem when you first started? PLEASE HELP ME!

moonbeam

04-23-2007, 01:57 AM

I don't know what an F4 is but new bike, new rider on the hills of SF sounds like a major challage to me. I had my first bike 3 days before taking it over an embankment so you arn't the only one. I would suggest a riding school and a lot of practice in an open parking lot before something serious happens. Later.....

motonewbie

04-23-2007, 02:02 AM

I already took the riding class and I refuse to practice in a parking lot because it does not give ANY idea of real riding in SF. No cars, no hills, I don't think I will learn anything from it.

I mean all the times I went down is always stopping or dying out and losing my balance. I need to learn how to overcome this.

My other major problem was turning too wide and unable to turn at low speeds but someone told me to ride my clutch so now I have a technique to go by.

But still having problems with the above and no one has a specific peice of advice, which is why I'm asking if anyone has been in the exact or very similiar predicament

motonewbie

04-23-2007, 02:04 AM

Also it's like, everyone I talk to, they all want to act like they are the shit so they never admit that they mess up which means they dont give me any advice or suggestions

550four

04-23-2007, 02:15 AM

can you explain your bike position a little bit better?

was the bike parallel or perpendicular to the curb?

where you trying to park the bike with the rear tire on the curb or just pulling over?

Ratters

04-23-2007, 02:18 AM

You do want to practice in a parking lot. For low speed manuevers it's all about clutch and rear brake. Practice letting out the clutch slowly and controlling your speed with the rear brake. You'll also need to practice keeping your balance at almost no speed, that is done with the handlebars. But it is very much a feel thing that requires a lot of practice. Go to the dmv lot after hours and try riding the circle very slowly. This is all practice you need BEFORE you go out on the street and have to deal with cars, hills, and all the other stuff.

As for turning wide, you need to push on the inside handlebar a tad more firmly. If you need to go right and find yourself going wide, push on the right handlebar till you get the turning rate you want.

I'm also assuming that you might not be tall enough for the bike if it is falling so much, have you looked into having the bike lowered or the seat shaved.

Best of luck. :thumbup

edmo

04-23-2007, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by motonewbie
... I refuse to practice in a parking lot because it does not give ANY idea of real riding in SF.

You are the problem.

Seriously. You need to practice the slow stuff away from the hills and traffic.

nweaver

04-23-2007, 08:45 AM

My first bike I dropped ONCE. About 300 miles in. U-turn on narrow, crappy, gravel strewn inclined 20 degree road in Berkeley. (I lived northside berkeley, so I know all about hills).

Never dropped a bike since.

Get Theee to a parking lot, your bike control is not good.

GhostRider

04-23-2007, 08:58 AM

find a parking lot on a hill if that makes you happy!

you got incredibly lucky it seems the first six times.

do you realy want your 7th time to be with cars around?
it;'s bad enough to ghetto rig rour own ride, but when you drop your bike on a parked car, it will be a tad bit more expensive.

again: you NEED more low speed practice.

Enchanter

04-23-2007, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by motonewbie
I already took the riding class and I refuse to practice in a parking lot because it does not give ANY idea of real riding in SF. No cars, no hills, I don't think I will learn anything from it.

I mean all the times I went down is always stopping or dying out and losing my balance. I need to learn how to overcome this.

My other major problem was turning too wide and unable to turn at low speeds but someone told me to ride my clutch so now I have a technique to go by.

But still having problems with the above and no one has a specific peice of advice, which is why I'm asking if anyone has been in the exact or very similiar predicament

What you are saying is that you loose your balance and occasionally fall when stopping and stall the engine. You do not want to practice stopping in a parking lot.

I tend to disagree. Going somewhere that will allow you to devote nearly all of your attention to stopping without falling would be a great idea. It seems like, you are distracted by hills, friends, cars, etc. And this contributes to the fall.

Be careful riding or 'training' another new rider. They might be looking to you for advice and guidance and you may not have it. I don't think that two newbies riding together is a good idea, especially when it causes one of them to be distracted enough to fall.

Grunz

04-23-2007, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by motonewbie
I refuse to practice in a parking lot because it does not give ANY idea of real riding in SF. No cars, no hills, I don't think I will learn anything from it.

I'm a noobie and I've dropped my F4i a few times while learning at low speed, so like Bill Clinton says "I feel your pain" /hug

OK.

Since you asked for "HELP" I'm gonna help by suggesting that you rethink this attitude against practice in a controlled environment.

Practicing skills in a parking lot is very helpful and lets you focus on improving basics like breaking, clutch control, slow speed turns and balance in safe environment.

Gaining confidence and second nature with those basic skills in a safe environment will then help you apply them correctly in a more complex environment like the hills and traffic of San Francisco when you need them so as not to drop your bike.

Cool?

racerXgirl

04-23-2007, 10:52 AM

I'm not sure how your bike is stalling out. Are you in neutral and bike just dies? Are you in first gear and clutching it to park? Are you stopping with your handlebars turned or straight?

plambert

04-23-2007, 11:02 AM

I also learned how to ride in SF (still learning) and so am somewhat familiar with how much of a pain in the ass the hills and other city elements are. If I wasn't so tall (6'4") I probably would have dropped my bike once or twice as well.

As someone else mentioned, is your bike maybe too big for you?

Also, as soon as I got my bike, I went and practiced in parking lots, and it helped a lot. Even with no hills and traffic, it just gets you more comfortable handling your bike (dealing with its weight and balance, etc.), and lets you work on clutch and braking skills so that they start to become more automatic.

As far as the hills, they were my biggest fear when I started out. After mostly avoiding them for a few days, I went and found one with no traffic around and just practiced going part way up, stopping, starting, stopping again, etc. Do this a few times and you'll wonder why you were ever nervous about hills.

I think what you really need to rebuild your confidence is to go out in the city with someone more experienced who can give you some pointers and encouragement. I'd volunteer, but I'm a relative newbie, and I don't think that would be a very good idea.

Good luck.

motonewbie

04-23-2007, 12:23 PM

OK my bike was pretty much parralel to the curb. The wheel was turned right and I was trying to turn it left. I was in 1st or 2nd and the rpm went too low. Well with boots I'm on my tippy toes but I seen shorter people ride higher bikes

snowface

04-23-2007, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by motonewbie
...Well with boots I'm on my tippy toes...

:shame

with this bike, your height, and SF hills as practice, i'll gander you have 122 drops left:

http://www.ki.org/sbl/101_ways.html

Hooli

04-23-2007, 01:04 PM

:Popcorn

550four

04-23-2007, 01:06 PM

for me, coming to a stop going up hill or going down is similar. i use engine braking a lot more on the downhills, but once im close to first, i've got both brakes on and my clutch lever in. (this will hopefully keep you from killing it)

when pulling over like that, i would try and make sure your front wheel is lined up with your back so if / when you start rolling. braking won't throw you off balance.

when im starting out going up a hill, i release the front brake so i can throttle easier, and wait right before my clutch engages to release the back brake which prevents rolling back.

this is my personal preference, but any kind of controlled area with a decent incline should help you get the practice you need.

clutchslip

04-23-2007, 01:10 PM

I dropped a bike on a hill after years of riding. I rode the same bike every day. It doesn't take much to goof on a steep hill.

Here's a compromise: Find a very steep road, out of town, with NO traffic, to practice on. Or at least, go to the North Avenues and find a steep, quiet street. They are there.
Pull your unnecessary plastic or get frame sliders, first.
Wait - maybe you should get frame sliders, anyway.

plambert

04-23-2007, 01:12 PM

Also, you're not pulling in the clutch soon enough. When the bike stalls, it stops with a jerk, and if the bars are turned, it's probably pulling itself away from you.

Pull in the clutch sooner, or hold in the friction zone and give more throttle, to come to a gentler stop on the hill. Also, try to have the wheel straight before you completely stop (more important for you since you can't flat foot).

Parking lot is best place to practice holding in the friction zone.

P.S. maybe we should trade bikes? :laughing

racerXgirl

04-23-2007, 01:27 PM

if you're in second gear on a hill and you're trying to move forward, yes, you'll stall and if you're trying to turn the handlebars at the same time, yes you'll drop it. Something to consider . . . practice shifting all the way to first gear when you come to a stop. When you're ready to start going again, there should never be a doubt in your mind what gear you are in.

Z3n

04-23-2007, 04:20 PM

Go practice in a parking lot. It's not about anything but learning how to use the bike...you don't throw kids into the deep end of the pool and expect them to swim, the same goes for riding a motorcycle. You develop basic skills in the parking lot, and then you can build on those. You've dropped the bike 6 times. You don't think that says something?

Also, make sure you're not putting your foot down too early. If you end up with your foot behind you, you're going to end up falling before you get used to the weight of the bike.

oldapeman

04-23-2007, 05:38 PM

motonewbie,

Let me offer you some information gleaned from experience (I have been riding 40 years, all kinds of bikes -- never crashed, but slow speed dropped a bike a few times, and I ride in SF and the Berkeley Hills nearly every day):

1. BALANCE. One of the biggest issues a new rider has (or an old rider with a new bike has) is the problem of trying to "muscle" a bike to keep it from falling over. That is a mistake in technique. You keep a bike upright by using balance. At speed , a bike can be leaned over and still be balanced. At low speeds, you need the bike to be nearly upright, and at a stop you must be PERFECTLY VERTICAL, to be in balance. If you try to battle gravity, you will always lose. If you accept gravity, and learn to work with it, you will be in balance, and thus in control.

If you are slowing down, and coming to a stop, bring the bike to perfect vertical first, well before you slow down to stop. Then brake, and downshift to first, and pull in the clutch as you come to a stop. You will not fall if you remained vertical throughout the process.

If you have not perfected the technique of coming to perfect vertical, downshifting, braking and holding in the clutch as you approach stop, do so on flat ground well out of traffic until it becomes second nature. You want it to be automatic, so you do not need to think about each step each time.

Practice this until you are able to consistently hesitate for a few beats with your feet on the pegs, in balance, after you have reached full stop.

If you need to lean your bike over so that you can have one foot on the ground when stopped, you MUST have your bike modified to give you a lower seat height. It is best if you can flat-foot with both feet when stopped, but two-footed on the balls (not the toes) of the feet is usually enough. You cannot lengthen your legs, so changes to the bike and your gear are all you can fix. There are many ways to do this (shaved seat, shorter shocks, thicker boots). Every quarter-inch counts, and lower is always better, particularly for a new rider.

2. HILLS. We all know there are two kinds of hills -- Uphills, and downhills. For both, the problems of balance are more pronounced due to the added slope. REMEMBER TO ALWAYS BRING YOUR BIKE TO PERFECT VERTICAL BEFORE YOU STOP.

On an uphill with a stop sign or red-light at the top, the added trick is to make sure you do not over-brake, and mistakenly slow the bike before you get to the stop line (since the hill is trying to stop your bike too). Also, as you stop you MUST be sure to keep the brakes firmly on after the stop, until you start again. My technique is to stop as if I were on flat ground, and keep the front brake firmly pulled as I put both feet down, keeping the bike PERFECTLY VERTICAL. Then, I bring the right foot up onto the peg, hold the bike using the foot brake, and let go of the front brake, so I am prepared to start again. When it is time to start, I give it some throttle, feather the clutch out, and as the bike starts to try to move forward, simultaneously let off the foot brake as I ease on the throttle and continue to feather the clutch out until the bike's power has overcome the gravity trying to hold me back. This can be tricky, and requires practice. Find a quiet place with a hill, and practice this technique until it becomes second nature.

For downhils, the important thing to remember is that the force of gravity is trying to keep you moving forward as you brake, which means you must use greater brake force to come to a stop at the stop line. Again, you will have no trouble keeping the bike upright if you BRING THE BIKE TO PERFECT VERTICLE BEFORE YOU BEGIN YOUR STOP. Just like the uphills, you will need to be sure to keep brake pressure on until it is time to start up again. Once stopped, use the same technique of moving your right foot up to the rear brake pedal, then as you start, giving some throttle, feathering the clutch, and letting of of the rear brake, works, just like the uphill scenario (except you will not need quite as much throttle, because gravity is helping you get started). Once again, find a quiet place to practice this until it becomes second nature.

I do understand your frustration (I am teaching my son to ride, and he just wants to get out there and do it too). Please have respect for yourself, the power and weight of the bike, and the threat of the surrounding traffic, and practice on quiet roads and safer areas until certain of these important techniques become more like second nature. Your life depends upon it.

It all becomes much more fun when you feel more in command of your bike under any condition you may face. Hope to see you on the road.

Mad Gnome

04-24-2007, 06:31 PM

Hmm, you might try stopping a little past the crest of the hill, with the center of the bike over the edge your feet will be closer to the ground. Clutch control is key, it will let you maintain control when stuck behind cars on a hill, you might burn a couple of clutches in getting it down , but that is still cheaper than body and paint. Find yourself a not too steep hill with little traffic and witnesses and practice stopping and starting (complete stops that is).
The dmv circle is a good concept to practice on - I like the alemany farmer's market (this near old bayshore and 101/ 280) best tho... more free area and and you can practice around the stalls for cornering.
You said you were looking for your newbie friend coming behind you... you have got to concentrate on your own ride right now, a moments inattention can wreck your whole day. (dont try to "keep up" with a better rider either, for that matter - you will panic and rash it out - trust me on this! ride your own ride within the limits of what you feel comfortable with)
Gear selection is often overlooked , practice knowing what gear you are in- easy to loose track of that.
Dont be afraid of the gas. gunning the engine and clutching will keep the beast alive if you let the clutch out slowly, even if you flub up and are in second when at a stand still. Note: this is also a handy way to burn up that clutch after a couple thousand miles, but by then you will be a better rider.
Got Riding gear?- get some. even if you dont use it you will look like you know what you are doing - and you will be / feel safer.
Hope this helps.

masameet

04-24-2007, 07:50 PM

Motonewbie, as a newbie I've come close to dropping my bike three times. I was able to save my bike twice by myself but a third time I needed help in keeping my bike from kissing the asphalt. Since getting my bike last Oct., I've dropped her twice -- once riding up very steep Marin Ave. in Berkeley (I wrote about it here on BARF) because my shifting from 1st to 2d didn't catch and the second time I was trying to mount my bike while she was parked on dirt (the stupid, traitorous kickstand -- Arrgh! -- retracted underneath me).

As to your situation, you're missing an important step. And since braking is the most fundamental lesson you need to master over all other aspects of riding, I hope you learn it before you really hurt yourself. So here is my analysis of your technique: The thing you need to always do when you decide to stop and pull in both the brake and clutch levers is to know which foot you'll set down so that when you do stop, the weight transference of your forward momentum will go to the side where your foot's touching earth. Since braking is a technique that is best learned on flat pavement, why not practice it in a parking lot? Or ride over to Golden Gate Park -- there's several roads there on which you can practice safely. Anyway from your story, it appears that you were on near flat ground when the bike hit the ground.

Still the biggest favor you can do yourself is to focus on your actions and think them out so you know which steps to do sequentially. After you've done them hundreds of times, you'll be able to do them without thinking.

You could also park your F4i for a while and practice your moto techniques on a smaller bike. You and your buddy, plus a few other newbies, could pool your money together and buy a 250.

tchaftantouri

04-24-2007, 09:05 PM

Try the parking lot at city college sf(where they have the msf by the way).
There is an inclined section there that you can practice on.
Plus they have the box markings etc, so you can practice low speed stuff...

dawinger

04-25-2007, 06:04 PM

now add in the streetcar tracks for some additional fun on the hills *shudders*

EbolaMonkey

04-25-2007, 09:57 PM

i have no idea what u mean by off-center wheel stops... because.. you arent supposed to be stopping when u are off-centered in the first place? what the fux?

=( your poor bike!

raidian

04-25-2007, 10:11 PM

Go over to Oyster Point during the weekend. The streets are empty there during the weekend and they are not straight (curves and corners). That's the only and best place you'll find close to SF. You can take local streets to reach there. It's better than CCSF.

AbsolutEnduser

04-25-2007, 11:48 PM

What the last guy said.

If you hate the parking lots don't go there. Just find empty streets and practice. Starting stopping, turning, u-turning. Stopping quick, starting quick afterwards.

Another solution is not to do any U-turns, if you insist on riding a model that you can't flatfoot.. flatfooting helps with saving the bike at slow speed.

Red6Rdr

04-27-2007, 12:10 PM

You are just like me. My first bike (fzr600) was really heavy to me and I dropped it probably about 10 times, every time just as frustrating. That's until I learned the intricate balance of it, especially at those gas station inclines. Flat footing the bike doesn't matter if you're not used to the weight. Just keep practicing, I haven't dropped my sv650 after 2 years of riding and I tip toe on it.

On another note, thats why I never recommend getting a nice bike (f4i) to start the baby steps on.

kiltwearinfool

04-27-2007, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Grunz
I'm a noobie and I've dropped my F4i a few times while learning at low speed, so like Bill Clinton says "I feel your pain"

Practicing skills in a parking lot is very helpful and lets you focus on improving basics like breaking, clutch control, slow speed turns and balance in safe environment.

Gaining confidence and second nature with those basic skills in a safe environment will then help you apply them correctly in a more complex environment like the hills and traffic of San Francisco when you need them so as not to drop your bike.

Listen to this. This is the attitude to have. Practice in an area that allows you to focus on what you are doing. Professional stunt riders practice their bike control in parking lots, why shouldn't you?

Practice riding your bike as slowly as you can in a straight line. keep your feet down initially, then move them closer to the pegs as you feel your balance improving. The goal is to be able to ride very slowly with your feet on the pegs, butt in the saddle.

Baptistro

04-27-2007, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by motonewbie
I already took the riding class and I refuse to practice in a parking lot because it does not give ANY idea of real riding in SF. No cars, no hills, I don't think I will learn anything from it.

Here's your problem. Your problems seem to arise from stopping properly. It doesn't matter where you stop, what position your wheel is in, etc. You stop the same way every time.

Go to a parking lot and do starting and stopping drills until it becomes second nature.

You're about to say that's not the problem...

It certainly seems like it is. Stopping without the clutch engaged while in gear will lead to stalling the bike, which is what you seem to be doing.

Come to a stop in a straight line, be gentle but firm with the controls.

Keep your eyes off the ground.

Oops, a little late to the party, looks like all this has been covered already. :p

wsmc831

04-27-2007, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by motonewbie
I already took the riding class and I refuse to practice in a parking lot because it does not give ANY idea of real riding in SF. No cars, no hills, I don't think I will learn anything from it.

....

then clearly you don't need practice...and also as clearly, you will continue to flounder while riding.

You need to master the basics, and if you've really dropped your bike SIX times already, you've got a LONG way to go.

paladinnorcal

04-27-2007, 04:21 PM

I read an earlier post of yours where you were having this same problem. Are you stalling the bike out or do you have some sort of electrical problem that becomes evident when you turn the handlebars?

I'm not sure why you are adverse to practicing in a parking lot. The fact that it is not like "real riding" is exactly the point. You get to focus on bike control without worrying about cars, pedestrians and hills. When I got my 650R I spend a good amount of time in the big parking lot at the Presidio and the City College parking lot just getting used to how the bike turned and stopped differently compared to my old Ninja 250. The first couple of months I felt much more unstable.

The thing I learned on the Ninjette was that even as light as it was, if I stopped or started with the front wheel anything but inline with the rear I was risking a fall. Once a 400 lb + bike starts to tip it's hard to save it. I think you may have put yourself at a disadvantage by jumping straight to a 600CC bike.

Enchanter

04-27-2007, 05:41 PM

Let's bring this thread back to the type of comments that help the original poster, and leave out the sarcasm.

masameet

04-28-2007, 05:08 AM

I'm going to add a little more.

Maybe what you're also doing, motonewbie, is grabbing the front brake lever a little too hard and maybe stomping some on the rear brake too. If your braking makes the bike a little jerky as it stops, that could also explain your tendency to lose your balance and fall. Since the weight of the bike is off-center, it follows then that you're probably also not sure which way the bike's weight is going (since it's not going forward).

I'm getting used to a new-to-me bike. It has very responsive rotor brakes, front and rear. Where my braking technique served me well on my CB250 and its drum brakes, it's now remarkably bad technique with the rotor brakes. Plus I'm now on the balls of my feet instead of flat footing it. And sorry to report, a block from home today I came to a stop and not only dropped my bike, but ended up flat on my back (and uninjured).

From now on, I'm going to take my braking slower and less jerky. I hope to smooth it out so my stops are always in control. Hope you can do the same.

caponerd

04-28-2007, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by motonewbie
alright I am so angry. I've had my bike for almost a month (been riding for the same amount of time) and I dropped it today for the SIXTH time! Same stupid situation as before (die out with wheel turned on an incline or hill).

What was special about today was that I was going up a steep ass hill and I had to keep looking behind me for my very very newbie friend rider who just got an R6S two days ago. I tried to pull over at the top of the hill and all I remember is kinda struggling to get the wheel to turn back left to straighten it, I didn't pull in the clutch and the bike died out while the wheel was to the right and BAM. I didn't even notice that my mirror was on someone's lawn 10 feet away.

Today was the worse. My bike hit the curb and the bar end took a hit, my mirror broke, and my headlight fairing is cracked and scratched.

I am not worried about the damage because I can ghetto rig everything back together but I am really mad that I keep making the same mistake. It's like one day I'll be having so much fun, perfecting everything I do, then the next day I'll mess up. MY confidence is wearing thin. Besides the MSF course I've ridden my bike about 2-300 miles only.

I use to have a problem with slow speed parking lot manaveur but I've learned how to use clutch control so thats one thing thats good, but I keep losing my balance at these off center wheel stops.

Did anyone have this problem when you first started? PLEASE HELP ME!

You've got a real problem if you've dropped your bike more than once for the same reason. I've dropped a bike a total of probably 10 times in 38 years on two wheels. 6 of those were simple parking lot drops, or falls in the dirt. I've never dropped a bike for the same reason twice. Learn from our mistakes, don't repeat them!

In your case, it sounds like not pulling the clutch was what hurt the most.
The first thing I tell new riders is; "the clutch is your best friend".
Disconnect the engine from the wheel first, then think about stopping or getting your feet down.
The first ride I ever took on my first motorcycle was trying to get up the hill in Noe Valley from the guy's house I bought it from.
I made it up the hill, but not without stalling several times and having to muscle the bike around and coast back to the bottom of the hill.
What I had going for me that this was on a Yamhaha 250 that weighed less than 300 lbs.
When us old guys tell people to get a small. slow bike to learn on, there's a damn good reason for it. If you'd gotten a Ninja 250 to start out on, I bet you wouldn't have dropped it 6 times for the same reason, and that you'd have a lot better confidence by now.

caponerd

04-28-2007, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by wsmc831
then clearly you don't need practice...and also as clearly, you will continue to flounder while riding.

You need to master the basics, and if you've really dropped your bike SIX times already, you've got a LONG way to go.

This is the point here. Trying to analyze exactly what he's doing wrong isn't really going to solve the problem.

A more beginner-friendly bike will.

Everyone thinks they can handle a 600cc sportbike for a first bike. Sure, you can get past the learning curve on one, but it's nearly the worst kind of bike to start out on.

This is a common result. A new rider who's lost control of his bike and dropped it 6 times in 300 miles/3 months, and is losing his confidence.
There only are two possible solutions, and this is not sarcasm, it's just the truth.

1. Give up entirely and sell the bike. Motorcycling isn't for you.

2. Get a smaller bike that you can handle easily in low-speed maneuvers until you've got some real skill.

If you folks want to see real riding skill, don't look at the guys who imitate racers while they're up on highway one. Look at the guys who can handle a bike feet up at a walking pace, making turns, going between obstacles, even bringing the bike to a dead stop briefly, then moving off without putting the feet down.
One of the things that stands out to me here at BARF is how many new riders just want to know how to go faster, I rarely see questions about how to handle a bike that's moving slowly. These are skills that really are more important on the street than how to drag a knee, or how to get the front wheel up.

snowface

04-28-2007, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by caponerd
This is the point here. Trying to analyze exactly what he's doing wrong isn't really going to solve the problem.

A more beginner-friendly bike will.

One of the things that stands out to me here at BARF is how many new riders just want to know how to go faster, I rarely see questions about how to handle a bike that's moving slowly. These are skills that really are more important on the street than how to drag a knee, or how to get the front wheel up.

+kabillion...

i couldn't say it better, so i thought i'd quote it louder. bravo, caponerd. :applause

Z3n

04-28-2007, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by caponerd
This is the point here. Trying to analyze exactly what he's doing wrong isn't really going to solve the problem.

A more beginner-friendly bike will.

Everyone thinks they can handle a 600cc sportbike for a first bike. Sure, you can get past the learning curve on one, but it's nearly the worst kind of bike to start out on.

This is a common result. A new rider who's lost control of his bike and dropped it 6 times in 300 miles/3 months, and is losing his confidence.
There only are two possible solutions, and this is not sarcasm, it's just the truth.

1. Give up entirely and sell the bike. Motorcycling isn't for you.

2. Get a smaller bike that you can handle easily in low-speed maneuvers until you've got some real skill.

If you folks want to see real riding skill, don't look at the guys who imitate racers while they're up on highway one. Look at the guys who can handle a bike feet up at a walking pace, making turns, going between obstacles, even bringing the bike to a dead stop briefly, then moving off without putting the feet down.
One of the things that stands out to me here at BARF is how many new riders just want to know how to go faster, I rarely see questions about how to handle a bike that's moving slowly. These are skills that really are more important on the street than how to drag a knee, or how to get the front wheel up.

Amen. Mojo, if i had it. That needs to be posted when people talk about the reasons they should start on a smaller bike. :applause

Mrs. V

04-28-2007, 12:43 PM

hey, I am riding the same bike - and I just had my first spill too... it sucks. But I hate to be the one to say (again) - get your basics down. Until you are familiar with your bike, and riding it - you will continue to drop it. The F4i's are big and heavy!
Secondly - how tall are you? Is the bikes suspension set up for you? (it is something I am presently looking into for myself - is why I ask - it will make a world of difference.)
And last but not least, what kind of instruction have you received -ride with any experienced riders? Do any novice/track days? - done any of the Doc Wong riding clinics? -Just suggestions....
I am a new rider too - and these are all tips I've received from the racers and riders in my life! :D
The goal is to have fun out there - not to seriously hurt yourself!

Best of luck.... Rubber side down,
(and believe me - I have a new sense of respect for that saying!)
sv

nweaver

04-28-2007, 01:28 PM

An F4i is NOT big and heavy. Its no heavier than an SV, and a heck of a lot lighter than a VFR or (glod forbid) a Goldwing.

snowface

04-28-2007, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by nweaver
An F4i is NOT big and heavy. Its no heavier than an SV, and a heck of a lot lighter than a VFR or (glod forbid) a Goldwing.

your post is NOT helpful. the OP is on his tippy toes, even in boots on the F4i. the bike is probably big and heavy in his eyes.

big and heavy is relative, and completely open to opinion. because it's lighter than a goldwing, and lighter than a semi truck, does not necessarily make it small, or light to any given rider.

sp33d

04-28-2007, 05:51 PM

well for me i used to ride an enduro up climbing hills when i was in sophomore year highschool overseas...clutching really needs a lot of practice...same as having a manual car...in frisco its kinda hard driving there coz of those hills...tell u what...i use to grip drive...i know this place where u can practice uphill with turns...theres barely cars around the area...have u heard about calaveras hills in milpitas? if not take 880 then exit 237 towards calaveras and just go straight and you'll hit the hill...its about 10 miles long or more than that...good luck...

Enchanter

04-28-2007, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by nweaver
An F4i is NOT big and heavy. Its no heavier than an SV, and a heck of a lot lighter than a VFR or (glod forbid) a Goldwing.
Inline fours do have more weight up high though. This can make them a bit more challenging to balance.

treyh0lla

04-29-2007, 01:18 AM

GTIMK4

04-29-2007, 07:28 AM

I haven't read through all this, but I will just say this. Learn on a smaller more confidence inspiring bike. Afterall it is about the RIDE on the BIKE. GS500e is a great bike. I always had a riot on mine, even though I bought it as a beater when I already had a supersport. Lots of fun, easy to fix and you can find them cheap and sell them for what you bought them for.

dubels

04-29-2007, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by motonewbie
I already took the riding class and I refuse to practice in a parking lot because it does not give ANY idea of real riding in SF. No cars, no hills, I don't think I will learn anything from it.

I mean all the times I went down is always stopping or dying out and losing my balance. I need to learn how to overcome this.

My other major problem was turning too wide and unable to turn at low speeds but someone told me to ride my clutch so now I have a technique to go by.

But still having problems with the above and no one has a specific peice of advice, which is why I'm asking if anyone has been in the exact or very similiar predicament

Umm in a parking lot you put yourself in to hypothetical situations and practice. Allowing for a crash to not be your last. Clutch control is what you can learn from a parking lot. Just sit there and learn how to smoothly engage the clutch. Once you get the feel of how the clutch engages you will be able to know when your bike is going to die when you are on a hill. Its also a plus to put at least your left foot down when you are trying to stop and you are slow enough for the engine to die without gas. MSF teaches to not take the right foot off so you can use your rear brake and just hold the clutch in until you are ready to get going with some speed. Clutch control is key! The F4i clutch is really easy to work and you shouldn't be having so many problems. But if you are saying you have already dropped your bike six times in a month maybe you should consider MSF or parking lot riding for awhile. Hell Ill bring my car out and drive around chasing you while talking on a cell phone, eating a donut, and trying to do a crossword puzzle then it would be just like the real world.

tdah

04-30-2007, 12:20 AM

ditto.

you shouldn't refuse to practice anywhere. with practice, you get better - yes, parking lots may be flat, but as you get more comfortable on the bike, you learn to handle it in other situations. on a parking lot, you can force yourself to start up with the wheel turned any which way, even if not on a steep slope. throwing yourself on the toughest terrain as you're doing probably won't help you, either, as you're finding out.

nvp

04-30-2007, 11:14 AM

All this advice is right on, but I will focus on one point and one point only. YOUR BIKE IS TOO TALL FOR YOU! Too tall for your height, maybe. But definitely too tall for your ability. In my opinion you have no business being on a F4i as a newbie anyway, but that's your choice. Understand that being on your tippy toes is a tough proposition for experienced riders, let alone beginners. I ride an R1150gs with the seat set on the high setting. This works for me as I have ridden for a long time and am 5' 11" (not tall... not short).

Your bike is too tall for you! Get something like a Monster if style is important to you. The lower seat will help, and it has no body work, so less get-toe rigging needed.

Be safe!

N

tuxedomack

05-08-2007, 02:08 AM

Jeez everyone, quit rippin' on the poor guy. Everyone drops the bike every once in a while, it's a part of life. If you ride in more difficult terrain and less predictable conditions then it just so happens to you more often.

I say...the best advice in this case is...to take no advice at all. It all takes time, and parking lots, vacant streets, and DMV circles - although all good advice, mean nothing without just a lot of good time on the bike. It takes months to get comfortable on a bike, and years to get comfortable with yourself in dynamic conditions like the city.

Just take your time, and stop worrying about dropping the bike. Have fun, and just stay safe.

wsmc831

05-08-2007, 08:03 AM

no, not everyone does actually drop their bike every once in a while, it doesn't have to be part of life. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just making excuses.

caponerd

05-08-2007, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by tuxedomack
Jeez everyone, quit rippin' on the poor guy. Everyone drops the bike every once in a while, it's a part of life. If you ride in more difficult terrain and less predictable conditions then it just so happens to you more often.

I say...the best advice in this case is...to take no advice at all. It all takes time, and parking lots, vacant streets, and DMV circles - although all good advice, mean nothing without just a lot of good time on the bike. It takes months to get comfortable on a bike, and years to get comfortable with yourself in dynamic conditions like the city.

Just take your time, and stop worrying about dropping the bike. Have fun, and just stay safe.

Go back and read the first post again, there's a good reason why people are giving him advice.
I've never heard of anyone before now who's dropped their bike 6 times in the first month they own it.
This guy's had 6 wake-up calls, and he ignores them every time!

I bought my first bike in SF, so I know it's a bit trickier sometimes for a new rider. All the more reason to start out on a bike you can handle.

FZsixxer

05-08-2007, 12:28 PM

Smaller bike..I will hold on your bike until you are ready..=0)

ramoneguru

05-13-2007, 02:08 PM

Regular mountain biking helped me a bit with taking hills and such. Also, riding the 50cc around helped me w/ my control. You can't cheat on a 50 or else you'll drop it.

Plus 50's are pretty fun :P

--Nick

ramoneguru

05-13-2007, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by wsmc831
no, not everyone does actually drop their bike every once in a while, it doesn't have to be part of life. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just making excuses.

I thought the same thing for a while.....then I dropped my bike.....not even moving. I was in the parking lot and bam, dropped hahahaha.

--Nick

dawinger

05-14-2007, 09:50 AM

riding up van ness was a pain in the ass, emergency stops on a hill sucks >.<

core

05-17-2007, 05:34 PM

I've notice a few people have said it, but it bears repeating:

Use the rear brake during slow maneuvers.

Low speed + turning + front brake = drop

When you're coming to a stop light, use both brakes to get you slowed down to around 10mph, then use the rear ONLY to stop.

Mikeeh76

05-17-2007, 05:37 PM

every time I see this thread, I'm like "oh no, he dropped it again"

Enchanter

05-18-2007, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by core
When you're coming to a stop light, use both brakes to get you slowed down to around 10mph, then use the rear ONLY to stop.
That really is poor advice.

The solution is to learn how to use the front brake properly NOT to give up using the front brake (even in the last phase of stopping).

RhythmRider

05-18-2007, 01:59 AM

Just keep practicing and don't become discouraged. I dropped my bike the first time I rode it because I was very unskilled. After a few days of parking lot practice, I was much better in the street. Now I ride with a fair degree of confidence. You can be the same!

core

05-18-2007, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Enchanter
That really is poor advice.

The solution is to learn how to use the front brake properly NOT to give up using the front brake (even in the last phase of stopping).

That was a bit rude. It isn't poor advice.

Obviously he is having trouble "learning how to use the front brake properly" isn't he?

If solving the problem was as easy as telling him "you need to learn how to use your front brake," I think he'd have that figured out by now.

It's a great way to get used to how the rear brake works, while you gather experience about how NOT to use the front brake. And doing so WITHOUT dropping it.

Grunz

05-18-2007, 03:57 PM

If he doesn't learn to use the front brake properly then he'll just start lock up the rear brake and may come here complaining about how his bike fishtails at every stoplight or asking why he cant stop quickly...

It's obvious the fella needs to hit a parking lot and practice the basics...

Enchanter

05-18-2007, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by core
That was a bit rude. It isn't poor advice.

Obviously he is having trouble "learning how to use the front brake properly" isn't he?

If solving the problem was as easy as telling him "you need to learn how to use your front brake," I think he'd have that figured out by now.

It's a great way to get used to how the rear brake works, while you gather experience about how NOT to use the front brake. And doing so WITHOUT dropping it.

Someone does not get better at something while NOT doing it. In other words, in this situation, the only way to get better at using the front brake is to continue to use it while concentrating on the problems, whatever they may be.

Using the front brake is not causing the bike to fall. Using the front brake improperly might be part of the issue here. Reread the thread. There are multiple issues here: A hill, stopping on it, and the front tire being turned.

Telling someone to stop using the front brake is crappy advice. Period.

core

05-19-2007, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by Enchanter
Someone does not get better at something while NOT doing it. In other words, in this situation, the only way to get better at using the front brake is to continue to use it while concentrating on the problems, whatever they may be.

Using the front brake is not causing the bike to fall. Using the front brake improperly might be part of the issue here. Reread the thread. There are multiple issues here: A hill, stopping on it, and the front tire being turned.

Telling someone to stop using the front brake is crappy advice. Period.

Yes, telling someone to stop using the brake altogether would be dumb. And if that's how you interpreted what I wrote, then that was dumb too.

Enchanter

05-19-2007, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by core
Yes, telling someone to stop using the brake altogether would be dumb. And if that's how you interpreted what I wrote, then that was dumb too.

This is what you wrote:Originally posted by core
When you're coming to a stop light, use both brakes to get you slowed down to around 10mph, then use the rear ONLY to stop.
Let me make this more clear for you: Telling someone to stop using the front brake and only use the rear brake once the get down to 10mph is stupid advice.

core

05-19-2007, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by Enchanter
This is what you wrote:
Let me make this more clear for you: Telling someone to stop using the front brake and only use the rear brake once the get down to 10mph is stupid advice.

You like to repeat yourself don't you. That's the same thing you said before, and once again, I'm forced to explain to you that it's a TOOL to fix one of his problems, not a complete solution.

So, if you'd like to discuss the validity of this method, that's fine. But if you just want to argue, you'll need to find some other chimp.

Z3n

05-20-2007, 01:43 AM

Mad Gnome

05-20-2007, 01:48 AM

...and how does this keep him from falling off of his too tall and over powered bike onto his too good for parking lot practice head?
Just call me Bonzo, but is this thread dead yet?.

Enchanter

05-20-2007, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by core
You like to repeat yourself don't you. That's the same thing you said before, and once again, I'm forced to explain to you that it's a TOOL to fix one of his problems, not a complete solution.

So, if you'd like to discuss the validity of this method, that's fine. But if you just want to argue, you'll need to find some other chimp.

Repeating myself? Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. You have yet to explain why not using the front brake below 10mph (the brake that provides most of the stopping power) is good advice.

To use a term you might be familiar with, there is ZERO validity to the advice you have given. Pure and simple, it is incorrect. Your so called advice should be filed in the same category as 'laying your bike down' to avoid crashing. Please explain to us how NOT using the front brake will provide this individual with the ability, practice, and skill require to properly stop a motorcycle. If you wanted to suggest a 'tool' for the original poster, you should have told them to concentrate on smoother application of the front brake with gradual increasing pressure, and keep the front tire pointed straight. That would be a useful tool.

I have discussed the 'validity' of your advice in a prior post. I'll repeat it here for you: When riding a motorcycle, the rider needs to be proficient at using the front brake. Your advice will NOT build skillful application of the front brake. In fact, it will do the exact opposite. Someone does not become more skillfull at a given task while NOT doing it. In other words, in this situation, the only way to get better at using the front brake is to continue to use it while concentrating on the problems, whatever they may be. Telling someone to stop using the brake to stop, the brake that provides most of the stopping power, is utterly foolish. Yes, I do understand that you are saying to quit using the front brake below 10mph, and yes, that is still foolish.

The fact that you think this is good advice is a clear indicator that you are unqualified to teach someone how to correctly ride a motorcycle. Please stop.

slydrite

05-20-2007, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by core
That was a bit rude. It isn't poor advice.

Obviously he is having trouble "learning how to use the front brake properly" isn't he?

If solving the problem was as easy as telling him "you need to learn how to use your front brake," I think he'd have that figured out by now.

It's a great way to get used to how the rear brake works, while you gather experience about how NOT to use the front brake. And doing so WITHOUT dropping it.

hmmmm....let me guess a few things about your childhood;

your parents told you that your were 'great' and 'special' when you got "C's" in class;

your grade school didn't keep score in the pee wee league sports and everybody got a medal or ribbon or something, no matter who won;

your grade school gave 40 students "student of the month" awards, every month;

you see dude, real life ain't really like that...when you suck in real life, you usually suffer the consequences of sucking and motos especially, DO NOT suffer fools very well...

IOW, "rude" has no relevance in this discussion......the ability to brake properly and the ability to choose carefully where one stops and attempts to turn around is the the issue...

other than that, what a "unclear of the concept" turn this thread had taken thanks to you....

no need to respond, everybody already gets the fact that you don't 'get it'

caponerd

05-21-2007, 06:50 AM

Folks, core has a valid point.

The problem with using the front brake while moving very slowly is that steering dynamics are very different at a walking pace than when the bike is rolling at over 15 mph or so.
You turn the handlebars in the direction you want to turn, and in direct proportion with the amount you want the bike to turn. As we all know, this isn't the case at higher speeds.
Doing a U-turn requires that the handlebars be turned a significant amount towards full-lock.
Applying the front brake too forcefully while the steering is near full lock can cause the forks to turn even farther, which can in turn cause the bike to fall over.
This may be exactly what happened to the person who created this thread.

As for the concept that the front brake is where most of our braking power comes from; that's totally beside the point in this discussion.
You don't need more than say, 5-10% of your total braking power to slow or stop a bike that's moving at a walking pace. The rear brake by itself is quite sufficient to do the job, and using the front brake during very low speed maneuvers can get you in trouble.

And before someone comments, note that I didn't say you shouldn't use the front brake while bringing a bike to a stop in a straight line.

Enchanter

05-21-2007, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by caponerd
Folks, core has a valid point.

The problem with using the front brake while moving very slowly is that steering dynamics are very different at a walking pace than when the bike is rolling at over 15 mph or so.
You turn the handlebars in the direction you want to turn, and in direct proportion with the amount you want the bike to turn. As we all know, this isn't the case at higher speeds.
Doing a U-turn requires that the handlebars be turned a significant amount towards full-lock.
Applying the front brake too forcefully while the steering is near full lock can cause the forks to turn even farther, which can in turn cause the bike to fall over.
This may be exactly what happened to the person who created this thread.

As for the concept that the front brake is where most of our braking power comes from; that's totally beside the point in this discussion.
You don't need more than say, 5-10% of your total braking power to slow or stop a bike that's moving at a walking pace. The rear brake by itself is quite sufficient to do the job, and using the front brake during very low speed maneuvers can get you in trouble.

And before someone comments, note that I didn't say you shouldn't use the front brake while bringing a bike to a stop in a straight line.

I disagree with his advice to use ONLY the rear brake below 10mph.

There are many variables here, but the solution to the possible problem of incorrect use of the front brake (especially for a new rider) is continued use. This will enable the rider to learn how to use the front brake properly.

No one is arguing dynamics of motorcycle design here. To quote you, that's totally beside the point in this discussion. I think that we can all agree that operating MANY of the motorcycles controls wrong/improperly can have negative effects on the balance and control of the motorcycle.

We should remember that this thread was started by a novice, and the problem is typically one that only novices have.

There are a few things that should be avoided when teaching someone how to ride correctly:
- You should avoid teaching them an improper technique especially when they will later be taught that that technique is in fact, the wrong technique.
- Avoid using words that have negative implications. When teaching novices, don't say "I threw it into the turn" or "Hit the brakes" or "Grab the front brake" or "(blah, blah, blah) so I layed it down". And to nitpick on the quoted text above, don't say "the problem with the front brake is..." In this case, the problem is operator error, to lead the novice rider to believe anything else is foolish and irresponsible.

From the Who Cares Department of Enchanter:
#1- I teach damn near 100 students a month, and I frequently see novice riders attempt to smooth out their braking by releasing one or both brakes when coming to a stop. The result is usually an immediate loss of balance due to them now driving their feet into the ground in an attempt to stop their motorcycle by dragging their feet. This loss of balance is usually accompanied by a weave due to their feet impacting the ground separately and alternately. This throws their body around which then causes them to inadvertently move the handlebars back and forth.

#2- Let's not turn this discussion into the theoretical differences in motorcycle handling at low speed vs. higher speeds. Again this is WAY beyond the ability of a novice rider. Over the last 18 years I've spent a lot of time riding motorcycles below 10mph. Press left, go left, and press right, go right, work at a crawling pace.

norcalR1

05-21-2007, 10:00 AM

6 times!!!! maybe you should sell the bike & stick with a car.

bmer97

05-21-2007, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by Ratters
You do want to practice in a parking lot. For low speed manuevers it's all about clutch and rear brake. Practice letting out the clutch slowly and controlling your speed with the rear brake.

+1

Master the FRICTION ZONE and you will enjoy relaxing/safe rides!

bmer97

05-21-2007, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by nvp
All this advice is right on, but I will focus on one point and one point only. YOUR BIKE IS TOO TALL FOR YOU!

N

If the balls of your feet can touch the ground at a stop, the height is OK.

Requires better control though!

Signed,

30 inch inseam.:p

caponerd

05-21-2007, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Enchanter
I disagree that he has a valid point. The entire point he is trying to make is: When coming to a stop, use ONLY the rear brake below 10mph.

No one is arguing dynamics of motorcycle design here. To quote you, that's totally beside the point in this discussion.

Go back and read core's first post again.
The main point that he made was that it isn't a good idea to use the front brake while making low speed turns.
He also added the thing about using only the rear brake during the last moment of coming to a stop as an aside.
I don't agree with the comment about only using the rear brake to stop that he added after making his point.
I do agree with his initial point: It's better not to use the front brake while maeuvering slowly.

And I wasn't discussing the "dynamics of motorcycle design".
I was discussing the dynamics of low speed motorcycle steering vs high speed motorcycle steering. Regardless of steering geometry, suspension technology or any other factor of motorcycle design, all motorcycles are steered at low speeds by turning the forks in the direction you want to go.
Under such conditions, applying too much front brake can be risky. That is relevant to this conversation, since all 6 of our topic starter's crashes have occurred while trying to turn his motorcycle at a walking pace. Something to do with the dynamics of low-speed motorcycle handling caused him to drop the bike 6 times while doing the same thing.

I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching new riders to avoid using the front brake while making low speed maneuvers. Like I said before; at very low speeds, the superior braking power of the front brake isn't necessary, and can get anyone in trouble while turning at low speeds.
After 38 years of riding, I don't bother using the front brake while doing parking lot maneuvers or U-turns.
I've never heard of anyone teaching new riders to release the brakes while stopping. That sounds like something that someone with absolutely no training might do when getting on a motorcycle for the first time.

I do use the front brake for better than 75% of my normal braking needs. But since I own and ride several vintage british motorcycles with left-hand brakes and right-hand gearshifts, the front brake is the one I always grab in an emergency. That prevents inadvertant clutchless downshifts by using the wrong foot when I forget that I'm not riding a Japanese or European bike in the heat of the moment. After I've got the situation in control, I add the rear brake to the mix. Using the correct foot.

Enchanter

05-21-2007, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by caponerd
Go back and read core's first post again.

I've reread his post and then edited my most recent post to reflect the single point of disagreement (rear brake only when stopping below 10mph).

caponerd

05-21-2007, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Enchanter
I've reread his post and then edited my most recent post to reflect the single point of disagreement (rear brake only when stopping below 10mph).

Single point of disagreement.
That's what it usually comes down to when you get to thinking about these online arguments that we all have a way of getting into.

There's something that just occurred to me about the original problem in this thread.
Didn't the guy say he fell because his bike stalled?
Guess I'll have to go back and read that one over again.
I haven't taught very many people how to ride (don't want the responsibility; it's far better to suggest the beginning rider's course offered by the MSF), but for those I have introduced riding to, the first thing I always tell them is "the clutch is your best friend". If you're feeling like you're in over your head while you're practicing riding skills for the first time, the first thing you want to do is disconnect the power from the engine.
This applies most particularly to low-speed maneuvering.
If the engine hikkups while you're turning at a walking pace with the clutch engaged, you're going down.
I always coast, or at least slip my clutch through tight low speed turns.

manalagi001

05-25-2007, 01:06 PM

Hills and tipovers. You're going to go down if you end up leaning to the downhill side. With hills, or even a slight grade, you've got to always be thinking about keeping your weight on the uphill side. If you do, it's a short reach with lots of leverage. If you don't, even a tall person can have trouble and drop the bike.

Try a hillclimb at Carnegie and then step off the bike on the downhill side when you stall and come to a stop. You'll fall 10 feet before you even hit the ground.

So keep the grade/camber/hill in mind and apart from that it's all clutch, throttle, and brake control, as everyone has already discussed here.

moto-rama

06-04-2007, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by caponerd
This is the point here. Trying to analyze exactly what he's doing wrong isn't really going to solve the problem.

A more beginner-friendly bike will.

Everyone thinks they can handle a 600cc sportbike for a first bike. Sure, you can get past the learning curve on one, but it's nearly the worst kind of bike to start out on.

This is a common result. A new rider who's lost control of his bike and dropped it 6 times in 300 miles/3 months, and is losing his confidence.
There only are two possible solutions, and this is not sarcasm, it's just the truth.

1. Give up entirely and sell the bike. Motorcycling isn't for you.

2. Get a smaller bike that you can handle easily in low-speed maneuvers until you've got some real skill.

If you folks want to see real riding skill, don't look at the guys who imitate racers while they're up on highway one. Look at the guys who can handle a bike feet up at a walking pace, making turns, going between obstacles, even bringing the bike to a dead stop briefly, then moving off without putting the feet down.
One of the things that stands out to me here at BARF is how many new riders just want to know how to go faster, I rarely see questions about how to handle a bike that's moving slowly. These are skills that really are more important on the street than how to drag a knee, or how to get the front wheel up.

What he said!!
Not that I know everything, but in 40 years of riding, and over a million miles, I do know that what is quoted above is the best advice so far.
I cannot add anything to it except to say that you can park your ego (with the F4i) and learn the right way, or take your ego with you while you risk your life and learn nothing.