HOW CAN I turn more / ???

[Godspeed710]

ok lets say i went in the corner too fast.... and i need to turn in more....

i already know i need to countersteer and accelerate along with long thought the corner.


what else could i do??? to prevent myself from going wide???

[Mudda Focker]

slow down:laughing :teeth

[Ian01]

Drift:teeth

[Hoologan]

The biggest thing is to avoid target fixating on the edge of the road/lane. Look through the turn, and your bike will follow.

[Ratters]

Originally posted by Skeletor
The biggest thing is to avoid target fixating on the edge of the road/lane. Look through the turn, and your bike will follow.

+1 Look where you want to go, that is probably the most important thing. Also turn your shoulders toward the turn and get your weight as far inside of the bike as you can, though you really need to practice that in all turns as your body tends to freeze up in 'oh shit' moments.

Oh, and slow the hell down. :twofinger

[EbolaMonkey]

if u entered the corner "too fast"... doesnt that mean u kind of already screwed yourself.. since "too" already implies that you are in over your head?

but yea.. basically the idea is you have to keep your bike "up" - make sure you are leaning into the turn with your bike. if you counterlean, u wont be able to turn much before your bike will hit the ground and u are screwed...

I suck at this though. I really need to find someone to give me pointers on my body positioning or something.

[Godspeed710]

Originally posted by EbolaMonkey
if u entered the corner "too fast"... doesnt that mean u kind of already screwed yourself.. since "too" already implies that you are in over your head?

but yea.. basically the idea is you have to keep your bike "up" - make sure you are leaning into the turn with your bike. if you counterlean, u wont be able to turn much before your bike will hit the ground and u are screwed...


so does that mean my body would be more on the side im turning??

[Godspeed710]

anyway im not going fast at all....

my speed is actually pretty moderate....

i guess
my question is how can i ride fast around the corner?

[EbolaMonkey]

haha fast is relative. How fast around the corner is fast?

but yea... from what i understand, u want to keep your body weight centered and on the inside of your bike (on the side of the that you are turning)... If you are going fast enough, u actually will want to be hanging off your bike sortof (this is right before the turn)

Then... as you hit your turning point, put some gas in it and quickly turn in.

all of this is to maximize your margin for error and keep your bike's lean to a minimum.

I guess im still new to riding as i have absolutely no tutelage but this is my understanding of things... from trial and error. at least the physics of things. I really want to take some sort of class - Keith Code or Zoom Zoom or something as soon as i can. I think practicing this stuff in a class on a track is probably the best way to learn. Also, then you can get your individual issues addressed.

But yea.. be careful - trial and error on your own will probably mean a crash. If you are rich and hardy enough to just deal with it... fine.

[Z3n]

Relax your outside arm, and push the handlebar with the inside. Most people tend to lock up or attempt to steer the wheel into the corner...causes the bike to run wide in both situations. Just take things slowly and try and be smooth, and speed will come eventually. Don't worry about it too much.

[Godspeed710]

i guess i just wanna get better, i have only ridden since jan. though...
anyway
thanks... 4 alll your respones

[Ratters]

Oh, then don't worry about going in too hot. Just take your time. Work on riding slowly but smoothly and taking proper lines. The speed will come as you get more comfortable. It takes a lot of riding and a lot of practice to feel comfortable turning. You can even lose it. I took three years off the bike and when I got back into it all my sense of comfort at speed was gone. Actually took me almost a year to get back to my comfort leve from before. Now I'm actually a bit better rider than before, but that comes with a lot of practice. Go on group rides with people who go at your pace or a very little quicker and learn from them what proper entry speeds and lines are. But always ride at speeds you feel comfortable. If you are having 'oh shit' moments, that's life telling you to SLOW DOWN. Listen to it. ;)

Oh, and go buy: http://www.amazon.com/Sport-Riding-Techniques-Develop-Confidence/dp/1893618072 Very informative and pretty much just what you're looking for information wise. It's main focus is on how to be a good, safe, quick street rider as well as giving some track tips too.

[Godspeed710]

Originally posted by Ratters
Oh, then don't worry about going in too hot. Just take your time. Work on riding slowly but smoothly and taking proper lines. The speed will come as you get more comfortable. It takes a lot of riding and a lot of practice to feel comfortable turning. You can even lose it. I took three years off the bike and when I got back into it all my sense of comfort at speed was gone. Actually took me almost a year to get back to my comfort leve from before. Now I'm actually a bit better rider than before, but that comes with a lot of practice. Go on group rides with people who go at your pace or a very little quicker and learn from them what proper entry speeds and lines are. But always ride at speeds you feel comfortable. If you are having 'oh shit' moments, that's life telling you to SLOW DOWN. Listen to it. ;)

Oh, and go buy: http://www.amazon.com/Sport-Riding-Techniques-Develop-Confidence/dp/1893618072 Very informative and pretty much just what you're looking for information wise. It's main focus is on how to be a good, safe, quick street rider as well as giving some track tips too.


thanks.... any other recommendation appreciated

[coupt_ed]

the link that ratters gave for: Sport Riding Techniques: How To Develop Real World Skills for Speed, Safety, and Confidence on the Street and Track (Paperback) is where you should start. he really covers the various components of cornering so it makes sense -and it is a really good deal ($$). I haven't read keith code's books but I hear they cover the same stuff though less eloquently.

[Godspeed710]

cool


are there any other books ya recommend?

[Enchanter]

Proficient Motorcycling is a much better book for new riders than a book intended for increasing your speed. You should master the basics before you move on to advanced skills. Sit on the bike like you were taught in the MSF class and master those skills. Once you can do those skills easily, and repeatedly, then worry about skills needed to increase your speed. You are way too new to riding to be thinking about going faster.

[Godspeed710]

Originally posted by Enchanter
Proficient Motorcycling is a much better book for new riders than a book intended for increasing your speed. You should master the basics before you move on to advanced skills. Sit on the bike like you were taught in the MSF class and master those skills. Once you can do those skills easily, and repeatedly, then worry about skills needed to increase your speed. You are way too new to riding to be thinking about going faster.

already got all the basics.... down.... but i just want to become faster when i turn because i don't want to get hit by some cager that likes to tailgate...


but your concern is greatly appreciated;)

[Enchanter]

Originally posted by Godspeed710
already got all the basics.... down.... but i just want to become faster when i turn because i don't want to get hit by some cager that likes to tailgate...


but your concern is greatly appreciated;)

I have a difficult time believing that statement. If you had the basics "down", you wouldn't be going slow enough to worry about cars.

If you have a desire to go faster, fine, whatever. Just don't paint a picture that you need to for safety reasons. If you are riding in a manner that you fear cars behind you, you really do not have the basics down.

Here is a thread about someone else that also had the basics "down" after just a few months:
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1778152#post1778152

[Sidewalk]

He is right, Proficient Motorcycling is a more fitting book for a newer rider, and no, you do not have the basics down yet. If you had the basics down, you wouldn't have to ask this question, because this is "basic".

Sport Riding Techniques is a good one, I recommend buying both. I own all of David Hough's books myself.

Originally posted by Enchanter
I have a difficult time believing that statement.+1

[kiltwearinfool]

Slow down before you get to the corner. You have more rubber on the road while you are upright than when you are leaned over.

While straight up, you have basically two total vectors to deal with: Your bike's inertia vs. the friction the rubber creates against the road due to the application of brakes.

While leaned over, you add the effort of turning to the equation. There's only so much a tire can handle before you break traction and fall down. Learn to do all your braking while you are not leaning.

[Godspeed710]

Originally posted by Enchanter
I have a difficult time believing that statement.

Here is a thread about someone else that also had the basics "down" after just a few months:
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1778152#post1778152


shut up.... you don't know me until you see me ride...

:laughing

jk

Seriously though i'll focus on the basics much thanks bro



Originally posted by kiltwearinfool
Slow down before you get to the corner. You have more rubber on the road while you are upright than when you are leaned over.

While straight up, you have basically two total vectors to deal with: Your bike's inertia vs. the friction the rubber creates against the road due to the application of brakes.

While leaned over, you add the effort of turning to the equation. There's only so much a tire can handle before you break traction and fall down. Learn to do all your braking while you are not leaning.

thanks...but what about trail braking ?
just curious

[Enchanter]

Originally posted by Godspeed710
thanks...but what about trail braking ?
just curious

Trail braking can be useful, but it's also a common way to crash. I hate to sound repetitive, but it really is the 'basics' that you seek.

Do a Google search for "The Pace" as it applies to motorcycles, then apply it. You will live longer.

[Godspeed710]

Originally posted by Enchanter
Trail braking can be useful, but it's also a common way to crash. I hate to sound repetitive, but it really is the 'basics' that you seek.

Do a Google search for "The Pace" as it applies to motorcycles, then apply it. You will live longer.

good looking out bro:blush

[kross]

For me, I had to learn to trust my bike in a lean. Once I realized it wasn't going to slide out from under me, I just started to lean a little more each turn. Are you counter-steering? If you push on the grip on the side you're turning (right turn, push on right grip) It will help get the bike set up to lean. The problem I was having was I would lean over as far as I was comfortable, and still wasn't turning quick enough. The answer is easy to say but harder to make yourself do: lean more! As long as you're not carrying a crazy amount of speed into a corner, your bike should be able to handle it. Don't be afraid to let off the throtle in a turn either. Just make sure you do it nice and smooth. If you chop it, you could lose the back end. Just ease off a little, and your bike will turn a little sharper.

[Godspeed710]

Originally posted by kross
For me, I had to learn to trust my bike in a lean. Once I realized it wasn't going to slide out from under me, I just started to lean a little more each turn. Are you counter-steering? If you push on the grip on the side you're turning (right turn, push on right grip) It will help get the bike set up to lean. The problem I was having was I would lean over as far as I was comfortable, and still wasn't turning quick enough. The answer is easy to say but harder to make yourself do: lean more! As long as you're not carrying a crazy amount of speed into a corner, your bike should be able to handle it. Don't be afraid to let off the throtle in a turn either. Just make sure you do it nice and smooth. If you chop it, you could lose the back end. Just ease off a little, and your bike will turn a little sharper.


yah.... i do countersteer....


so should i countersteer and lean more at the same time???

[kiltwearinfool]

Originally posted by Godspeed710
Seriously though i'll focus on the basics much thanks bro

thanks...but what about trail braking ?
just curious

Trail braking is a technique which, as Enchanter said, is a good way to lose front traction and crash. It's a technique which riders use to extend their braking zone all the way to the apex of a corner. The hard part is balancing your braking with your feel for the amount of traction available, leaning your bike, body positioning, throttle control, environment awareness, line choice, etc. There is so much that goes in to trail braking besides "just lean, brake, twist the throttle and go". It's really something you should practice in a controlled environment (such as a racetrack) under the watchful eye of someone who's done it before. It is not an easy thing to teach yourself, and it's not a tool you should use before you understand the traction limits of your bike.

Smarter people than I have observed that it's easier to go faster through a turn because you entered too slowly than slow down in a turn because you entered too fast. This is why I say as a beginner do all your braking before you lean in.

One thing you will experience when you begin to learn trail braking is that the bike wants to stand up (this is related to a gyroscopic effect). The second is that your line will tighten (you are slowing down) . It is possible to tighten your line in a turn through braking, but as a beginner you are really taking a chance because it is easy to brake too hard and lose front traction.

I think you will get greater confidence in corners returns on learning how to grab the tank with your knees and take weight / pressure off your hands while you enter and go through a turn. We all had a stage in our careers where we had a "death grip" on the bars. This makes turning much more difficult. Once you learn to lighten up your hands and arms, you'll find you have greater confidence in corners.

[Enchanter]

Many novices end up running wide when trail braking because they feel that they are going too fast for the turn and must slow down to make it. As they slow the bike down the lean angle is reduced. This reduction in lean angle means the bike actually turns less and can run wide.

Skilled riders have developed the ability to a) panic less, b) adjust their input to the bars to actually counteract the bikes tendency to stand up.

Again, this is not a newbie friendly technique.

[kross]

Originally posted by Godspeed710
yah.... i do countersteer....


so should i countersteer and lean more at the same time???
Yeah, counter-steering sort of 'forces' the bike onto the edge of the tire, putting you in the position to lean a little quicker. You can turn in a limited fashion by counter-steer alone (I do it when I'm resting my left arm) but I've found it really helps when coupled with leaning. There really is a lot of geometry to the way bikes work, and if you look at your bike on it's kickstand with the wheel cocked to the left, you'll see it doesn't look like it's ready to lay on the edges of both tires. That's where the counter-steer comes in. A good portion of corner speed is your comfort level. Remember it's easier to come in slow, turn to sharp and ease the bike back up than it is to come in too hot and force too much lean angle.

[flying_hun]

Listen to Enchanter and Ratters. Keep your eyes on the exit of the turn. After you read the book Enchanter recommended (remember to listen), there will be time to read other books.

Some descriptions of counter steering are confusing. Follow the physics.

[kross]

+1 what flying hun said. I'm neither a professional rider nor professional author. I'm sure the recommended books will do a better job than I can of describing what to me is more of a feeling than anything else. Just keep the speed down a bit while you play with your technique.

[Ironbutt]

Originally posted by Godspeed710
yah.... i do countersteer....


so should i countersteer and lean more at the same time???

Counter steer, give it gas, weight your pegs.. not in that order.. But don't try to win the pratice session... you get no points or bragging rights.

[Godspeed710]

Originally posted by kiltwearinfool
We all had a stage in our careers where we had a "death grip" on the bars. This makes turning much more difficult. Once you learn to lighten up your hands and arms, you'll find you have greater confidence in corners.


yep i took the doc wong clinic and he said that if youre grabbing the bars too hard then that means you are going too fast... and out of your comfort zone....

it's also a sign to slow down

[Hodgie1300]

Ride with peeps who ride better than you and see if they are willing to slow the pace for you to see their line and entry, you will get better with seat time, yet the most important thing is when you see yourself doing it right you will, seems that now you expect to over do everything, and when you do enter too fast you expected to so you don't believe. Seat time, there is no substitute... 20yrs in the seat, not a expert by any means, just comfortable and enjoy riding, learn from you mistakes and realize speed comes way faster when you get it right at a slower pace,

smooth makes fast period... confidence comes with seeing and knowing you have that right sight and line picked out and making that happen, smoothness all around.