F40 Run Last Race Sat???

[Trackho]

Just a thought to see if anyone is interested in proposing to teh board that we run F40 Saturday after the Clubman races--Of course if clubman ran too long it could be moved to Sunday--so it would happen.

My thought process is as follows
1) We would get our own grid---so the many levels of racers speeds would go away
2) It would be a nice way to "crank up the adrenaline" end of day Sat.---good fodder for druken BS Sat night
3) No conflicts with Sunday races--fewer back-to-back
4) I am hoping that Sat practice would stay the same as is--worst case we lose our last "short session"(I never run it anyway).

Its just a thought to see if there is any interest. Even if everyone LOVED it, I think its will be an uphill battle with the board.

Thoughts????

Please share thoughts/ideas on the AFM site too-Thanks:

AFM Site Version (http://www.afmracing.org/webforums/viewtopic.php?t=2824)

[TWF]

isn't that bed time for those guys?

[NoQuarter]

works for me. add to that FP superpole and you've got some good saturday afternoon action.

[Kurt]

In theory this sounds good, however I am already being charged $115 for 3/4 of a days practice, that hurts. Add another race to sunday and we have $115 for 2/3rd of a days practice, that sux even more.

this will benefit a few, but detriment all who ride saturday.

[GPgofast]

Since it beneifits myself and it looks that I will have a back to back at nearly every round this year, I'm all for it. (I ran faster in my second race than I did in my first or last-go figure...maybe I should only run 14 lap races!)

[AFM#719]

Love it... Saturday practice isn't really that productive anyway... Show me anyone who picks up 3-4 seconds the day before the race.

I rather be racing. :teeth

[Holeshot]

If we can combine two of the novice races, OR have you guys race with the novice guys, I'd be for it.

[Trackho]

Originally posted by Holeshot
If we can combine two of the novice races, OR have you guys race with the novice guys, I'd be for it.

Thats a thought--Put it in the FRONT of the Cubman HW--that way some of the fast cluman get passing practice

[hwy1&17]

Originally posted by Trackho
Thats a thought--Put it in the FRONT of the Cubman HW--that way some of the fast cluman get passing practice

that sounds better then loosing a tad more practice time :cool

[Kensaku]

Does this involve butt sex? If so, I'm all for it.

[jrace]

If F40 runs with Clubman, there will definitely be some asspacking. :D

-jim

[lokisdog]

Originally posted by Trackho
Thats a thought--Put it in the FRONT of the Cubman HW--that way some of the fast cluman get passing practice

Last Sears race HW Clubman had 21 finishers, F-40 had 39, that's a 60 bike total gid, 2 waves, not unreasonable, we do that with other classes now. I makes even more sense at TH and BW.

The fastest guys in HW Clubman ran best laps of 1:47 and 1:48 respectively, one guy did a 1:50 and the rest were 1:53 and over, so I doubt too many of them will catch up too far into the F-40 pack if it goes off first.

[Trackho]

Originally posted by Kurt
In theory this sounds good, however I am already being charged $115 for 3/4 of a days practice, that hurts. Add another race to sunday and we have $115 for 2/3rd of a days practice, that sux even more.

this will benefit a few, but detriment all who ride saturday.

What if we had a 30min Lunch Break Sat in lieu of the 60min --

then only the fatties would be upset:laughing :laughing :laughing

Only got 20 min last Sunday--and I lived

[markermck]

As I suggested last night, it might be better yet to spread the love around a bit, and have a different class each month run the "Saturday Schedule" as time/grid sizes/whatever other criteria allows. I dont know that I'd want to ALWAYS race F40 on Saturday though.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by Trackho
What if we had a 30min Lunch Break Sat in lieu of the 60min --

then only the fatties would be upset:laughing :laughing :laughing

Only got 20 min last Sunday--and I lived

now you are asking the turnworkers and staff to give up 30 minutes of their down time, I'm sure without extra conpensation for the additional 30 minutes of work.

still for the benefit of a few.

I like the idea of switching the grids better.

[Kurt]

...besides, it's friggin california, aren't those fukin' two-stroke illegal yet?

:laughing

[Kensaku]

Originally posted by jrace
If F40 runs with Clubman, there will definitely be some asspacking. :D

-jim

The most Jeff has given me was an ass smacking, but never real live butt sex.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally posted by Kensaku
The most Jeff has given me was an ass smacking, but never real live butt sex.

I'm all for it. It's been a while since I've had any "real live butt sex.":laughing

Besides crashing out in the fist round...I mean first round of BW and then sitting on...I mean sitting out this last round....I'd say I'm already fucked as it is.:teeth

[summitdog]

Running Clubman with F40, are you kidding????

You honestly think the closing speeds on the new clubman racer is going to be less than some of the FII racers?

The whole purpose of having a clubman race is to allow newer racers a chance to race without huge closing speeds. In my opinion it would be a huge dis-service to the Clubman racers to promote the AFM Clubman class as a place to "get your feet wet" with F40 strafers whizzing past.

Remember, some of the clubman racers have not "proven" themselves to qualify for the Sunday race. I submit that this idea creates a larger safety risk than having F40 behind the FII grid.

Scotty Storey

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally posted by summitdog
The whole purpose of having a clubman race is to allow newer racers a chance to race without huge closing speeds.

Point well taken.:)

[duh_ave]

Nice to hear you encouraging and creating some ideas Jeff.

My take? why not just drop F40? I think the lot of the class would still have plenty of other options to play in.

Revenues could be made up by tips from the new cheerleading sections derived from those who dont have enough other places to play.

Seriously, I think if it gets moved to saturday, the entry fees for f40 should reflect the additional monies that we pay for that little bit of extra practice that the slot might be taking up.

We're getting closer and closer to not having a practice at all.

[Trackho]

Originally posted by summitdog
Running Clubman with F40, are you kidding????

You honestly think the closing speeds on the new clubman racer is going to be less than some of the FII racers?

The whole purpose of having a clubman race is to allow newer racers a chance to race without huge closing speeds. In my opinion it would be a huge dis-service to the Clubman racers to promote the AFM Clubman class as a place to "get your feet wet" with F40 strafers whizzing past.

Remember, some of the clubman racers have not "proven" themselves to qualify for the Sunday race. I submit that this idea creates a larger safety risk than having F40 behind the FII grid.

Scotty Storey

This "process" is pretty predictable, 90% of the f40 riders I have spoken with are fine with it, then 10% of the non-f40 racers bitch cuz their just bitches with a new cause.

The reason we are looking at this is so fellow racers have a MUCH lower chance of getting GET KILLED/PARALYZED

Putting it w/clubman is a new thought---but I dont get why it would be so bad if we ran f40 in the first wave of heavy weight or middle weight--which is what was always proposed-NO ONE has EVER proposed running f40 BEHIND anything--THATS WHY WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS (Comprende Scott??)-not even the fastest guys are gonna "straff" clubman--unless they are stupid slow--by that time things are spread out . I am not sure why we are treating clubman like "special" people---thats just rude--guess what they make the cut-off they get alot worse than straffed in the real races

Other "new" thoughts include having a 30 min lunch break--seems we had a 20 min lunch break last Sunday and everyone survived...but I guess that unexceptable because someone might get indigestion.

Or run races till 5:30PM---Not alot of rocket science here

The intent of this thread was to get input from f40 racers--to see if its even worth pursuing---either way WE collectively are looking at trying to improve a tough situation and make Sunday a tad easier---fuck us for trying to do something constructive for the club.

I would bet that F40 is arguably the wealthest demographic (that means it is good for the AFM as a club for the commies out there) in AFM so I wouldnt hope/think that its going anywhere but bigger

[lokisdog]

Originally posted by duh_ave
Nice to hear you encouraging and creating some ideas Jeff.

My take? why not just drop F40? I think the lot of the class would still have plenty of other options to play in.

Seriously, I think if it gets moved to saturday, the entry fees for f40 should reflect the additional monies that we pay for that little bit of extra practice that the slot might be taking up.

We're getting closer and closer to not having a practice at all.

If you look at the data F-40 is growing in popularity, a very well liked class. Dropping is is not a very good idea at all. And yes, while some of the F-40 riders could run other classes some choose not to due to the size of those classes and the higher percentage of Nimrods within some of those classes.

There's plenty of other classes that need to go first before F-40, smaller classes that are less than 10 bikes that take up waay too much grid space since they take up an entire 'wave' slot for just two bikes. Don't they run an empty row between waves? If so then your 2 bike class just killed 7 grid spots minimum. Sounds like a waste of space to me.

You want me to pay $20 more to race F-40 on Saturday so I can keep a class I like, fine. And face it we're only talking what, 20-25 minutes of practice time lost here if you add a race to Saturday, so not everyone loses practice time, only 1, maybe 2 groups if you try to run all sessions full-length. Maybe you take the last session down from 20 minutes to 15. That buys you 30 minutes of race time if there's 6 groups, not a very big sacrifice I would think.

If you want to preserve the practice time and you don't want to put F-40 guys with HW Clubman, then move the slower and less populated classes over. S-Dino, F-Singles, 250 Prod, etc. We already did that for Vintage guys! A precedent has already been set! If they grid with HW or LW Clubman there shouldn't be any safety issues Scotty. The fastest S-Dino guy was 1:59, no one in 250 Prod broke 2:03, F-Singles, 2:02 the fastest time. Not much of a safety threat if they grid up after Clubman HW, except to the one HW racer who couldn't get faster than a 2:21.

The major point here is we're trying to be creative and offer solution without killing a class, esp. one that so many racers like.

So other than taking the easy way out and removing classes like F-40 what's your suggestion?

[duh_ave]

Jeff, if someone in clubman is "stupid slow", then they are in the right place. Thats what was created when we all didnt want them on the track during the sunday program.

Demographics of wealth should have no bearing on class placement. Whether the class grows or not is more dependent on demographics of age.

I would be surprised if we didn't loose a few corner workers by imposing the shorter lunch, but I could be wrong.

The ideas are good, but I dont think fully grounded just yet.
Mostly as the imposition upon the rest of the club for one class is just as selfish as what you might view as a lack of 'consideration" for F40.

[duh_ave]

Originally posted by lokisdog
If you look at the data F-40 is growing in popularity, a very well liked class. Dropping is is not a very good idea at all. And yes, while some of the F-40 riders could run other classes some choose not to due to the size of those classes and the higher percentage of Nimrods within some of those classes.

There's plenty of other classes that need to go first before F-40, smaller classes that are less than 10 bikes that take up waay too much grid space since they take up an entire 'wave' slot for just two bikes. Don't they run an empty row between waves? If so then your 2 bike class just killed 7 grid spots minimum. Sounds like a waste of space to me.

You want me to pay $20 more to race F-40 on Saturday so I can keep a class I like, fine. And face it we're only talking what, 20-25 minutes of practice time lost here if you add a race to Saturday, so not everyone loses practice time, only 1, maybe 2 groups if you try to run all sessions full-length. Maybe you take the last session down from 20 minutes to 15. That buys you 30 minutes of race time if there's 6 groups, not a very big sacrifice I would think.

If you want to preserve the practice time and you don't want to put F-40 guys with HW Clubman, then move the slower and less populated classes over. S-Dino, F-Singles, 250 Prod, etc. We already did that for Vintage guys! A precedent has already been set! If they grid with HW or LW Clubman there shouldn't be any safety issues Scotty. The fastest S-Dino guy was 1:59, no one in 250 Prod broke 2:03, F-Singles, 2:02 the fastest time. Not much of a safety threat if they grid up after Clubman HW, except to the one HW racer who couldn't get faster than a 2:21.

The major point here is we're trying to be creative and offer solution without killing a class, esp. one that so many racers like.

So other than taking the easy way out and removing classes like F-40 what's your suggestion?

So its ok for you to make a choice that potentially imposes on others, but when another class potentially imposes on what you want to do, its not ok... right?

I think your guys' creativity is to be commended. Without hearing the opposition/ devils advocates, you will be running a course that will only lead to dissapointment, when, at the end, its gets shut down.
Think of it as constructive criticism. You can use it to improve your ideas.

Yes, the easy way out is to say loose F40. Its easy for me baecause i dont race it. Just like its easy for some to say loose 250XXX and 450XXX.
F40 is growing and some of the other classes are shrinking for sure, but things were not always what they are today and may not be tomorrow.

I'd like to see consideration of how to deal with these types of class growths not just for F40, but maybe, say, 750 prod got huge... what the?

Again, i think its turning into a multi day format.

[lokisdog]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by duh_ave
So its ok for you to make a choice that potentially imposes on others, but when another class potentially imposes on what you want to do, its not ok... right?

Not sure I get this one., You want to remove F-40, that's not imposing, that's 'removing'. maybe I misunderstand. What class is imposing on F-40?

...Think of it as constructive criticism. You can use it to improve your ideas.

"constructive criticism" doesn't in my mind whack a popular class, it would suggest an alternative that allows all classes. That's constructive thought, yours is 'destructive'...


F40 is growing and some of the other classes are shrinking for sure, but things were not always what they are today and may not be tomorrow.

True but not really relevant, deal with probabilites Dave, not possibilites. Sure, S-Dino might blow up into a 40 bike grid next week, or 450 Prod suddenly next year put 30 bikes out there instead of the 7 that showed up Sunday, but highly unlikely.


Again, i think its turning into a multi day format.

I think that's what I was suggesting in the post above, I agree with your statement, does that mean you support 2-day racing or are you still worried about no practice time?

[Holeshot]

I was kidding with running F40 with Clubman...

[duh_ave]

With the current trends, I support two days of racing paralelling how it was discussed last year (on Barf, nothing official that I know of).

I think everyone should get one or two sessions to get sorted for the day but practice should be on us.

The impositions I was referring to were:
A)how gridding F40 with clubman efects clubman and its "sprit" (ever popular word).
B) how the turn workers are going to take to the notion, especially on a bleeding hot day at t-hill.

As far as descructive criticism, see it for what its meant as...
ie:
if someone is going to propose cutting into the corner workers lunch, propose a compensation with it and how that compensation might be sourced. Then its a complete idea and can actually be considered.

I realize that ideas are trying to be developed but their major "oppositions" should be considered early as well.

It is both probable and possible that the boom of F40 dissapears. Seriously, whats the average age of the "booming" rider? How long have they been a club member on average?
Point is, with the average mebership being something like 3 years, it is probable that there are a lot of new racers this year joining up who wont be there in 3 more.

[lokisdog]

I think I get the 'imposition' part, you were combining my post and Jeff's. For the record I think everyone should get all the lunch time they want. Lunch is good.

Here's an idea, how about grid size minimums? Say every class has to grid an average of at least 15 racers (or some other reasonable number) over the first 2 races of the year. If they don't, that class doesn't race that class the rest of the year.

Natural Selection at work, takes care of the ebb and flow of class sizes automatically, the membership takes full responsibility for the decision by choosing to run or not run in a particular class, etc.

If F-40 dies for lack of support due to a shift in age demographics then so be it. If 450 dies cause there's only 7 bikes left in the entire state that can actually run that's cool too.

I'm only half-kidding here...

[duh_ave]

grid minimums are a good idea. I suggest using them for a projected "dealine" instead.

for example:
with a minimum rider deadline in place, you could say that any class with less than XX rider average for XX seasons will be dropped the following season and will be reconsidered when xx riders commit to racing it again.

reason for this is that you dont have folks out spending tons of time and money getting ready for something and then get a bomb dropped on them. Once the season starts, I think that we are committed to run it for that season.

The second part to this is what Kevin went over at the meeting, which is grid combinations.

for example:
450p is often gridded with 500t and super dino
if 450p leaves, you still have a problem in that while you have created a huge hole in a grid, it doesnt fix the gridding problem that you already had.

You'd have to nix all 3 classes and that process will have its own issues.

[clutchslip]

Originally posted by Holeshot
I was kidding with running F40 with Clubman...
Thank god. If this idea becomes real, I will do clubman this year, for sure. Since I had better get some practice in before I hit the F-40 group.

Gees Jeff, for the most part, the speeds and skill level are pretty extreme in my old-ass-opinion. I think handling the unpredictable is the biggest issue. If you don't have a mental margin for error, yours or someone else's, then everyone is at risk.

I think with a ka-billion race hours behind you, you have forgotten how sketchy things can seem getting passed on both sides in say: 2-3-3b at Sears. (It just happened to me with Chandler and some boys.)

[Trackho]

Originally posted by duh_ave

The ideas are good, but I dont think fully grounded just yet.
Mostly as the imposition upon the rest of the club for one class is just as selfish as what you might view as a lack of 'consideration" for F40.

You sound like a chick before her period--all bent no solution--NO nmatter what is suggested, you will have a problem with it :confused :confused

We could NOT bring this up and leave it as it is--next Sears race we get the front wave--others suffer. INvestiagting this is idea being done so:

The downside for the F40 racers is:
1) Our significant others often dont show up to watch until Sunday
2) We lose the prestige of being a "real" sunday race
3) We have to make sure we have fresh tires/other race prep Sat instaed of Sunday

For most of the F40 guys, we can live with the slight inconviences to have a much safer/better race.

1) The chances of someone getting killed/maimed are lessened(BEFORE IT HAPPENS)
2) Racers in and out of F40 have a better race

Selfish or NOT F40 aint going anywhere--the AFM is run by $$$--F40 brings in SOLID $$/race time welcome to America--

Do you even race f40??

Do you cornerwork??

Why are we listening to you again on this subject ?? fer Gods sakes please remind us

[Holeshot]

Is there really a need for F40? As if 40+ year olds can't win normal club races? Let's see, Hill, Earnest, Anderson, Mesa...

F40 is one step above formula EZ for importance, is it not? Age seems not effect race winners, considering our latest FP winner is 39.

[TWF]

F40 is favored group of people by afm board :)
this people get laid maybe once or twice a year and need special treatment somewhere.

[Trackho]

Originally posted by Holeshot
Is there really a need for F40? As if 40+ year olds can't win normal club races? Let's see, Hill, Earnest, Anderson, Mesa...

F40 is one step above formula EZ for importance, is it not? Age seems not effect race winners, considering our latest FP winner is 39.

And my do we need a 750 class again, cant you guys decide between "cornerspeed (600) or "point-shoot"(1000)--NOT trying to single out 750s--but any non-AMA(ish) grids will have the same arguement.

Berto, the real answer lies in--we as F40 riders, like it, pay for it. Perosnally, it is my favorite race--I always dice with the same literbikes--and an ocassional 600---so its fun and it gives some of us senior citizens a chance to actually podium and get a trophy.

Its interesting that I am proposing something that actually helps the other classes by removing F40 from Sunday racing at6 the inconvience of the F40 racers--and the "thanks" I get is lets ditch F40 all together.

We made a special provision for the relatively uncomitted "clubmen"--why not do the same for guys tha have supported the AFM for 5, 10, 20 years??

I agree that maybe it should be spilt into heavyweight/lightweight--but now people will get really pissed.

Now lets ask why we have a vintage, 500 singles, 250 (four stroke) and classes for every obsolete race bike known to man and allow super motards on a tracks which liter bikes have to pass at 100MPH deltas--talk about stupid-insane.

[duh_ave]

Originally posted by Trackho
You sound like a chick before her period--all bent no solution--NO nmatter what is suggested, you will have a problem with it :confused :confused

We could NOT bring this up and leave it as it is--next Sears race we get the front wave--others suffer. INvestiagting this is idea being done so:

The downside for the F40 racers is:
1) Our significant others often dont show up to watch until Sunday
2) We lose the prestige of being a "real" sunday race
3) We have to make sure we have fresh tires/other race prep Sat instaed of Sunday

For most of the F40 guys, we can live with the slight inconviences to have a much safer/better race.

1) The chances of someone getting killed/maimed are lessened(BEFORE IT HAPPENS)
2) Racers in and out of F40 have a better race

Selfish or NOT F40 aint going anywhere--the AFM is run by $$$--F40 brings in SOLID $$/race time welcome to America--

Do you even race f40??

Do you cornerwork??

Why are we listening to you again on this subject ?? fer Gods sakes please remind us

No Jeff, I dont race F40. No, I have not corner worked. Have you corner worked? In a couple more years, I may race F40. I may then even thank you for your efforts of today.

Fact is Jeff, you bitch and moan far more than I or most anyone else does. This IS the first time you've offered and suggestion to remedy an issue.

Why are you listening to me?
I offered my opinion to help, yes, help you and anyone else create a proposal that you can actually pitch and not just get shunned like the crap you "presented" wednessday did.

Try reading everything I wrote instead of picking up what you can twist into a personal attack. Maybe talk with Eric a bit, I think he was able to see where I was coming from.

Real question is not why listen to me, it is why try to help you.

[Holeshot]

Jeff, the point is (and one Zoran makes over and over), the club needs a makeover of the class structure. A class based on age is just...weird. But if it works, then it works.

Moving it to Saturday will seriously crunch practice time. For anyone trying to set a bike up, that's not a good thing. Consider we couldn't even get off 2 clubman races Saturday.

I don't think we should get rid of formula 40, but considering it's a discriminatory class, you don't want to get me started down that path.

I believe formula 40 should be the end of the day, every weekend, considering the fact that not everyone can enter it. Course I really don't care where it is in the schedule that much...but I can make some pretty strong cases when prodded.

[FlatulentDan]

Lets's add a 3rd wave for F220.

some other club has it... all the guys over 220lbs. Let me compete against guys my size :D

all in favor?

[ZXR400SP]

Im in...........

[budman]

Originally posted by Holeshot
A class based on age is just...weird. But if it works, then it works.


It works!... Look at MX as an example of multiple age groups.

Back in the 80's when spandex and rocker hairstyles were the rage F-40 was a class that did not have the impact that todays class has in terms of volume or quality of the overall grid.

I am in awe of how many mature racers are out on the AFM grid today..:applause and damn good ones too!

I think with todays society this class will continue to prosper and grow. They will not likely be quiting due to finances or job status either that probably puts racers out before they may want to be done racing.

I also feel that for many they prefer the chance to race with their piers..on a clean and equal track. I for one, used to look forward to racing in the 30 something class when I was MX' racing because the kid's kept knocking my ass off making crazy moves and such.. "I got work to do on Monday lads...don't kill me"

The Saturday concept is solid IMO and giving the 40 something guys a grid of their own is ideal. Of course that is ideal for any class that gets 20 or more.. and traffic havoc is part of the results.
Running alone eliminates that and it is old man on old man. :teeth

I do agree with you, Zoran and others that some format changes need to be made and that will no doubt be a tough one to accomplish and some will be pissed.

Now.. FP qualifying.. that would be the bomb. :banana It would give those racers that may only race a couple of races a equal shot at being able to compete. I have no doubt we would see some more pro racers drop into the mix if that happened. I bet the fan base would love to see it and that could bring more folks thru the gate too.

Good to see so much jabber about the AFM grids, race days etc.. here on barf. :cool

:smoking

[khill]

Originally posted by Holeshot
Is there really a need for F40? As if 40+ year olds can't win normal club races? Let's see, Hill, Earnest, Anderson, Mesa...

F40 is one step above formula EZ for importance, is it not? Age seems not effect race winners, considering our latest FP winner is 39.

Why don't we just combine F40 and FP......

Ken

[TWF]

problem with F40 is that is limited who can enter.on top of that everybody that races in F40 has at least 3 more classes they can enter.
trackho has 4 :)
if any class should be eliminated that one should be first to go.
or like Ken said,put them as second wave to FP,they will stop complaining about passing anybody :)

[Holeshot]

And seriously...for people to have an easier time getting to the podium, isn't that why CCS was around?

[Trackho]

Originally posted by Holeshot

Moving it to Saturday will seriously crunch practice time. For anyone trying to set a bike up, that's not a good thing. Consider we couldn't even get off 2 clubman races Saturday.


Why does everyone make this assumption without first nvestiagting a 30min lunch, or extending Sat to 5:30PM--is there a "inf Law" that we have to shut down at 5PM??

The amount of track time on practice days and race days is impacted MORE by crashing and crash clean up than anything else. At BW, we were done racing a 3:30 on Sunday--few crashes

Yet we lost ambualnces for 1 1/2 hours during the last Sat clubman races--whos to say we cant keep practice the SAME Sat and race F40 after Clubman---some race days it will be a fine--others go a tad late---as the season prolongs --many of the serial crashers will retire ( I hope and clean up the grids).

If that doesnt work--we run it Sunday

So where is all the creativity?? duh-ave??

Lets Assume
1) F40 is staying (1/2+ the board is over 40--I doubt there is a chance in hell, they will vote it out)
2) More Race Time Sunday is a Good Thing
3) We want to create safer races
4) Holy shit maybe we could even split 600 prod/SB grids wit the extra time--imagine that

[Trackho]

Originally posted by Holeshot
And seriously...for people to have an easier time getting to the podium, isn't that why CCS was around?

No thats why you bought a 750:laughing :laughing :laughing

[lokisdog]

Originally posted by TWF
problem with F40 is that is limited who can enter....

So is FP, so is Clubman, that one doesn't really work...


And not everyone can run 3 classes. If I change the brake master on my 1000 I can't run Prod., so I can only run Open GP (which you also wanted to remove) and Open SB if F-40 is gone. I can make the time cut-off for FP at 2 out of 3 tracks, but not by enough margin to actually feel like anything but a dork signing up, I don't have any business being out there IMO.

We need to seriously look at two-days of racing, removing classes is the lazy way out.

[Trackho]

Originally posted by TWF
if any class should be eliminated that one should be first to go.
or like Ken said,put them as second wave to FP,they will stop complaining about passing anybody :)

'cept your team riders would still get in the way punkin:laughing :laughing

And Zoran, you want to keep super dinosaur, both guys in 500 singles, and vintage because...................? vs a grid 60 PAYING riders happy to race...hmmm its worse than I thought

[purluv420]

Originally posted by lokisdog
We need to seriously look at two-days of racing, removing classes is the lazy way out.

Though I see this as the best option I think the club would loose to much money on this option. The club would need to rest the tracks for three days to include racing both Weekend days and friday practice. I don't think enough people would be able to sign up for a weekday practice to make up for the extra cost.

[TWF]

Originally posted by lokisdog
So is FP, so is Clubman, that one doesn't really work...


And not everyone can run 3 classes. If I change the brake master on my 1000 I can't run Prod., so I can only run Open GP (which you also wanted to remove) and Open SB if F-40 is gone. I can make the time cut-off for FP at 2 out of 3 tracks, but not by enough margin to actually feel like anything but a dork signing up, I don't have any business being out there IMO.

We need to seriously look at two-days of racing, removing classes is the lazy way out.
dont put brake master on,it is your choice not limitation of classes.you have 3 open classes(not counting F40 and FP).
trackho,if it was up to me dyno and vintage would be gone long time ago.also classes would be more in line with rest of world.

[clutchslip]

Originally posted by TWF
or like Ken said,put them as second wave to FP,they will stop complaining about passing anybody :)

I am pretty sure K. Hill was being sarcastic. However, if he was serious, I am all for it. I can say I ran in FP before I collect social security. :laughing

This 40+ group is going to GROW. You members below forty had better get used to it. Thanks T.Ho for the thread. I will commit ----- f-it. :twofinger

[Mike152]

Originally posted by Trackho
Why does everyone make this assumption without first nvestiagting a 30min lunch, or extending Sat to 5:30PM--is there a "inf Law" that we have to shut down at 5PM??

The amount of track time on practice days and race days is impacted MORE by crashing and crash clean up than anything else. At BW, we were done racing a 3:30 on Sunday--few crashes

Yet we lost ambualnces for 1 1/2 hours during the last Sat clubman races--whos to say we cant keep practice the SAME Sat and race F40 after Clubman---some race days it will be a fine--others go a tad late---as the season prolongs --many of the serial crashers will retire ( I hope and clean up the grids).

If that doesnt work--we run it Sunday

So where is all the creativity?? duh-ave??



Lets Assume
1) F40 is staying (1/2+ the board is over 40--I doubt there is a chance in hell, they will vote it out)
2) More Race Time Sunday is a Good Thing
3) We want to create safer races
4) Holy shit maybe we could even split 600 prod/SB grids wit the extra time--imagine that

A 30 minute lunch break is more the norm. That 60 minute one we got Sat is rare. Also keep in mind that the time it takes us to come in and to go back out to the track comes out of that time. Besides who is the lunch break really for the racers or the workers. The break on Sun was more like 20 minutes for us. Plus we volunteered to stay out on the track. The plan was to come in grab a lunch and go right back out.

Everyone I know our efforts are greatly appreciated. I just needed to vent on this idea that cutting the lunch back was a creative idea.

[Jackdog]

I think this is a good idea

If you want to preserve the practice time and you don't want to put F-40 guys with HW Clubman, then move the slower and less populated classes over. S-Dino, F-Singles, 250 Prod, etc. We already did that for Vintage guys! A precedent has already been set! If they grid with HW or LW Clubman there shouldn't be any safety issues Scotty. The fastest S-Dino guy was 1:59, no one in 250 Prod broke 2:03, F-Singles, 2:02 the fastest time. Not much of a safety threat if they grid up after Clubman HW, except to the one HW racer who couldn't get faster than a 2:21.

And I would like this idea but don't think we have enough time to do it right.

Now.. FP qualifying.. that would be the bomb. It would give those racers that may only race a couple of races a equal shot at being able to compete. I have no doubt we would see some more pro racers drop into the mix if that happened. I bet the fan base would love to see it and that could bring more folks thru the gate too.

[Holeshot]

Originally posted by Trackho
No thats why you bought a 750:laughing :laughing :laughing

Sure thing. Don't forget Jeff, I've podium'd in the 600 class more than a few times. How're the F40 wins working out?

I like Jackdog's idea as well. Look I'm not looking to do anything with the F40 class. I could give a rat's ass. I'm just not in favor of cutting down practice for it. If we can run the day longer, fine...but I don't think that's going to work so well.

I'd say leave it until next season and we'll look at a revamp of all the classes. I could make a convincing argument to abolish F40, but that's just effort for something I care less about. Just don't try to give it some preferential treatment. I'm thinking having it run at the end of the day Sunday is awesome!

[MackeyStingray]

Besides who is the lunch break really for the racers or the workers. yep. lunch break isn't for the racers who are practicing 15-20min. then resting the next hr.

[com3]

though i'm no racer, i just wanted to chime in a few pesos...

the F40 class is a HOOT to watch. quite honestly, it's the 2nd most entertaining race, just behind FP.

watching 600 superbin and stuff is all good... but often, the racers are pretty spread out. with F40, you can fully expect to watch a lot of dicing it up and the likes.

i have no real input as to what can be done to address jeff's complaints, however, i sometimes wonder why some race classes even continue to exists on the AFM schedule. *shrugs*

[afm199]

F40 was started years ago to accomodate the older riders in what was a younger club. Now that many of those younger riders are riding F40, it is probably time to change the class with the times and make it F55. The younger fellas still have their regular classes to ride in and the old slow guys have a class to play in..... So you Beatches need to give it up :teeth

[omegajeff]

just curious....

* who here has been passed that close and at those relative speeds? (me)

* who here has done the passing that close and at those relative speeds? (me)

and my $0.02....

I sure as hell did some close maneuvering over the weekend. F1...gridded 63rd, finished 19th. 600SB...gridded 30th, finished 14th. I know I did some close passing, and I don't believe there was any negative repercussion. I also don't see any other threads about splitting the F1 or 600SB grid. :confused And I've been passed/clipped by berto, siglin, etc. i've even been asspacked by an unnamed rider....asspacked so hard he bent the shit out of the rear of the bike. he says i took a bad line going into the corner...i say he overcooked the corner and ran into me. either way, i looked at those moments as a learning experience. I'd like to think that the majority of the racers chalk it up to close racing.

[Trackho]

Originally posted by omegajeff
just curious....

* who here has been passed that close and at those relative speeds? (me)

* who here has done the passing that close and at those relative speeds? (me)

and my $0.02....

I sure as hell did some close maneuvering over the weekend. F1...gridded 63rd, finished 19th. 600SB...gridded 30th, finished 14th. I know I did some close passing, and I don't believe there was any negative repercussion. I also don't see any other threads about splitting the F1 or 600SB grid. :confused And I've been passed/clipped by berto, siglin, etc. i've even been asspacked by an unnamed rider....asspacked so hard he bent the shit out of the rear of the bike. he says i took a bad line going into the corner...i say he overcooked the corner and ran into me. either way, i looked at those moments as a learning experience. I'd like to think that the majority of the racers chalk it up to close racing.

In general I agree--but tell me again when the last time you and two other guys were trying to get by someone that was going 40-50mph slower than you---THat is the ISSUE I had--if I veered around the 250 a few millisecs early--I would have gotten asspacked by a literbike going 50MPH faster--No one gives a shit about all the passing--its the speed deltas--without the 250 there WE would ALL be going 50MPH faster thru there--NO big deal

[ZXR400SP]

Originally posted by Trackho
---THat is the ISSUE I had--if I veered around the 250 a few millisecs early--I would have gotten asspacked by a literbike going 50MPH faster--

I call Bullshit, you could see this guy for three turns before you fixated on him entering T6. You could have easily set up to pass him well in advance and the rider behind would have seen this as well. Had you had the supposed 50MPH delta you claim, you would have passed him long before the entry to T6 since he's easily seen in the video in turns 3, 4, and 5.

[Merkel]

F-Singles should be run on Saturday with clubman along with vintage.

[AFM535]

A very-novice perspective (2 race weekends):

Absolutely grid up the slower classes behind clubman HW & MW. Keep competitive liter bike races away from clubman though. They're just trying to keep their wheels down and make times for Sunday.

[ThinkFast]

IN the FWIW Dept... CCS runs two F40 classes - LW and open. When they introduced the split it seemed to work well so they kept it. Means adding another class to already crowded schedule, but as others have mentioned, there may be some classes that have outlived their useful life in AFM (maybe AHRMA would fit them better?).