racing advice

[rsouza68]

I am a recent barf newbie and have posted a few questions. for the most part, i have recieved some very good responses except for a few rather childish comments due to my terminology not being at PAR....so please be honest and be nice...this forum is not the track...! Thank you

I have a serious question and would appreciate honesty. I consider myself a well experienced 22 year street rider. I can handle myself rather very good on 17 at speeds of 85+ around the turns and I can hold my own on 9 as well as other BA hotspots.

I have never raced but am very interested in pursuing this endevor. I have a NRS class in july to see if I "CAN" qualify but I need some advice as to this current goal of mine.

I am 39 years old, in great shape but have no track experience.....am I too old to race... and are there others at my age starting to race the afm circuit...?

[GPgofast]

I didn't start racing until I was 38.

I would suggest you do as many track days as you can. Riding on the track usually does NOT equate to holding your own on 9.

[ZXR400SP]

I started racing at 42, I'm 47 now, we have racers in their 50's and 60's, some which are very fast. Riding on the track is not like riding on the street. If you have NRS scheduled for July try to get in a few track days before that time to hlep you get acquainted with the track.

[commo27]

Yea do a few trackdays and you will be on your way...There is no "too old" in club racing like AFM . All sorts of ages in it. If your talking AMA stuff then,...24 is getting old..haha

[Fast Turtle]

GP is correct, riding fast on the street rarely translates to fast on the track, at least not right away. I would strongly encourage you to do some trackdays prior to doing the NRS, but certainly before racing in the AFM. I started racing at 45.

[FlatulentDan]

Originally posted by Fast Turtle
GP is correct, riding fast on the street rarely translates to fast on the track,


+1 way back in the day when I sarted... I was a balls out fast MF'er on the street. Crazy insane.. no one could touch me sort of deal. On the street ... stooppidity and and balls can make up for a lack in tallent.

My first weekend out at a race, I got my Ass HANDED to me!! . It was humbling but it was great. Once you get out on the track in a race, you'll be bummed that you didn't start this much much sooner. there is nothing like it. No other way to get that kind of speed with this kind of safety.

Never too old. I'm 36 and I'm still chasing guys older than me.

[HellFyre]

Damn the fast old guys!!! :laughing It sucks getting passed by guys nearly twice my age.

[1kneedown]

wow...you guys make me feel like a spring chicken having started racing at the tender young age of 36 :laughing Age is totally irrelevant in the AFM...please no one make any jokes about Ernie racing well into his 70s :teeth ....but I couldn't agree more about getting some time on the track. Passing the NRS requires riding smooth and in control, not fast. It's going to be very hard to demonstrate those two aspects of your riding if you are not comfortable with the track enviornment.

[rsouza68]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I would like to spend some time on the track before my NRS. Any suggestions as to the best track would be for me (I live in the BA).....and yes, I agree that going fast on the street does not equate to "racer" eligability. I hope you all did not get the wrong impression that I was making me something that I am not......hopefully not yet that is..!

I am looking forward in hopefully riding and learning from all of you....

Thanks Again

[FlatulentDan]

ZoomZoomtrackdays.com really focuses on instructors for the new trackday guys. You'd get lots of instructions from almost all AFM racers and get plenty of track time. check out thier calendar.

there is also a trackdays section on here (BARF)

[afm199]

I am still racing at 61, nothing more fun than passing youngsters of 40 :)

[ThinkFast]

I started when I was 43 (in the MidWest with CCS), won a bunch of races my first year (actually, my first weekend), but the fields were much smaller than out here on left coast. And tracks were relatively "easier" to learn, I think, than Infineon. Raced for two years, then let it go - took almost a three year break - just started again last weekend. Now 47.

Go for it.

Doing track days, especially at Infineon, will help you enormously. Do not try to go fast. Do not scare yourself. If you are feeling a bit sketchy out there - it means you're trying too hard to go fast.

Work on technique, learning the lines, the track, and basic track riding - speed will come.

And lastly - be aware that the difference between track day riding, and racing is roughly the same as the difference between street riding and track days (or, as some might relate to - the difference between deer hunting and combat - ie, a LOT). At least, IMHO.

[TheButcher]

Your never to old to start racing. It's all just a state of mind.

let us know how the NRS school goes for you after you pass.

[kxmike]

Hell... I just turned 50 and am thinking about racing AFM. I'm doing trackdays for now and getting my lap times down before I jump in:teeth .
I'd suggest Thunderhill for your first trackday. It's a pretty easy track to go fast on right away.
Oh ya..in case you don't know, AFM has a class (formula 40) for us old guys over 40 yrs old. (some of the fastest guys are in this class!)
Good Luck:cool

[Holeshot]

You're gonna love it! Come on out. Age is just another number...your laptimes are what matters!

[rsouza68]

Hey thanks for the ecouragement holeshot......and everyone who has givenn me encouragement inn this forum.

[BDAZ XX]

I started again last year at 43 (I raced flat track for 5 yrs in my teens) and I'm lovin it!! Theres no place better to ride fast than the AFM!! Great peeps, great tracks and fun classes.

Go for it and have fun!!

[Matt714]

You're gonna love it!! I put it getting back into racing for a few years when I moved back to the area and after BW this year there was only one thing on my mind.... Why did I wait so long!!
Best wishes and see you out there:teeth

[Norm]

I bought my first bike at age 52, did a dozen track days the first year, took the NRS early in the second year and immediately started racing. And no, I'm not setting any track records but I'm riding mid pack, having fun and riding safe. Just do it.

Norm
#477

[DirtyD]

I think you're putting the carriage before the horse. Talking about racing when you haven't even ridden all the AFM tracks once? That might have worked in the old days when it was tough to get out on the track UNLESS you were racing, but things are different now. Do a couple dozen trackdays at 3 or 4 different tracks, work your way up to riding in the A group, start passing a few racers at said trackdays, and then start talking about racing. Unless you like getting lapped in the Clubman class. Hey, someone has to finish last.

But I agree, 39 is definitely not too old.

[rsouza68]

thanks for the advice dirtyd and i will certainly get out there and ride the tracks.

[scalvert]

Originally posted by afm199
I am still racing at 61, nothing more fun than passing youngsters of 40 :)

You had me pretty well owned back when I was 31, give yourself some credit for once mang! :laughing

[Adiggity]

There are numerous trackday organizers. Some have different things about them that make them better for certain people. I would recommend riding at the tracks you are going to be racing on.(Thunderhill, Infineon, Buttonwillow-AFM tracks) Just because your fast on one track doesn't mean you'll be fast on another. Here is a list of some of the popular organizers.

http://keigwin.com/ (http://www.keigwin.com)
www.pacifictracktime.com (http://www.pacifictracktime.com)

http://www.zoomzoomtrackdays.com

All three of those are good. Try them all. And have fun. :teeth

[NoQuarter]

Originally posted by DirtyD
I think you're putting the carriage before the horse. Talking about racing when you haven't even ridden all the AFM tracks once? That might have worked in the old days when it was tough to get out on the track UNLESS you were racing, but things are different now. Do a couple dozen trackdays at 3 or 4 different tracks...

holy crap, how much time and money does one need to put into something to figure it out whether it's fun or not? trackdays are hardly anything like race weekends. put in enough to feel comfortable at focusing on riding a track and passing the NRS, but a few years worth of track days? sounds like a good way to ingrain a bunch of bad habits really (when it comes to racing habits)

as an example, i'll give a brief history of my personal racing thus far: a few years of casual street riding in the mid-nineties. got bored because i was very concerned with tickets and/or being taken out... came close to dragging a knee only once, but not for lack of confidence, just simply didn't want to take it any further on the street.
basically garaged the bike for 5 years.
decided to go racing.
spectated an AFM race at Sears.
signed up for and attended California Superbike School in the spring of 2001, Freddie Spencer School later that year...
found an AFM racer to prep a used bike for me, joined AFM in 2002 at age 31, attended a trackday at Buttonwillow the monday before my first AFM race that next weekend, also at Buttonwillow. mangaged to win a top novice trophey, but that really didn't matter. my goal was to simply not crash, learn and see if racing would become something i truly enjoyed. it did.

excluding race weekends and race schools, after 5 years of racing full AFM seasons and additional AMA events last year, i don't think i've done even 12 trackdays, much less a couple of dozen.

don't get me wrong, i think trackdays are great, a lot fun, and very helpful learning experiences. but if racing is what you're interested in trying out, go racing. it's a much different vibe.

certainly you'll want to get comfortable at the 3 tracks we race at ahead of your races there, but you don't have to master them all before jumping into NRS and onto the grids.

those are my thoughts anyhow... welcome to the party, it's a great sport.

[ontherearwheel]

I'll add my useless $0.02.

When you decide to go racing, there are two things to really consider.

1. Are you ready to put your life in the hands of others?

2. Are you ready to have the lives of others in your hands?

[NoQuarter]

Originally posted by ontherearwheel
I'll add my useless $0.02.

When you decide to go racing, there are two things to really consider.

1. Are you ready to put your life in the hands of others?

2. Are you ready to have the lives of others in your hands?

Is that any different than what happens every day on the street? I recall getting that spiel in drivers ed. A valid spiel at that.

[rsouza68]

NoQuarter, awsome advice. So true, "A wise rider is a live rider"....thanks. I will definately follow it..!

[ontherearwheel]

Originally posted by NoQuarter
Is that any different than what happens every day on the street? I recall getting that spiel in drivers ed. A valid spiel at that.

Yes it is. On the street, its not a race. Its not about points, its not about getting money based on where you finshed, its not ego.

Street is not racing.

On the street there is not trying to late brake someone, not trying to get a wheel in front someone going into a corner.

Trying to get a pass on someone going into a corner.

In racing there is less margin for error than on the street.

On the street , there's not two different waves of different type of bikes going the same way and getting in the way of each other.

If you don't understand the difference between what racing is and what street riding is, don't race.

There are two sides of going racing......most focus on the fun , but forget to mention that racing serious shit, and as such the descion to do so should include of the good and bad.

The bad being..........are you ready to be hurt, maimed or killed.

[Adiggity]

So, your saying the track is more dangerous than the street?! I would have to disagree. Sure it is possible to get hurt or killed racing but there are SOOO many things out there in every day life that have the same dangers. You could get killed sitting in your living room by some guy who fell asleep while driving and crashes into your house. You can't live life in fear. If you do your not living IMO.
I agree you can't just have people dive bombing into corners either, but that's why we have rules in the AFM. Like em or not, they are for safety.

[NoQuarter]

Originally posted by ontherearwheel
Yes it is. On the street, its not a race. Its not about points, its not about getting money based on where you finshed, its not ego.

Street is not racing.

No kidding. I didn't imply that it was. Reread my first post. My story is one of the most sensible versions of "take to the track" I know of.


On the street there is not trying to late brake someone, not trying to get a wheel in front someone going into a corner.

Trying to get a pass on someone going into a corner.

ever used an on/off ramp? for sure it is a slower paced scenario, but it's still all about timing and predicting what the other driver will do.


In racing there is less margin for error than on the street.

Agreed, mostly. But, that has much more to do with riding on the limit than anything else. Consider that most tracks are wider than a single street lane= more margin for error in turns. There is no oncoming traffic on the track.

Ever stopped to consider the fact that when driving on a two lane road at 55mph, that the only thing between you and a 110mph head on collision is two little yellow lines of paint and the abilities of you and that other driver to hold your lines?

Unlike the street, on the track you have x-ray vision and can see through corners and blind crests (they're called corner workers and they use flags to help you "see" the unseen)


On the street , there's not two different waves of different type of bikes going the same way and getting in the way of each other.


eh? there's dozens of waves of vehicles from scooters to semi's... constantly jockeying for position.


If you don't understand the difference between what racing is and what street riding is, don't race.


Not sure if that's directed at me or a generalized sentiment, but I've never had trouble differentiating the two.


There are two sides of going racing......most focus on the fun , but forget to mention that racing serious shit, and as such the descion to do so should include of the good and bad.


again.. eh? RIDING is serious shit, on the track or not, racing or not. Racing is more intense for "serious" versus "casual for fun" racers, but it's not necessarily more dangerous. I'd rather race against a totally focused, serious racer than someone lazily out for a sunday ride any time.


The bad being..........are you ready to be hurt, maimed or killed.

Again with this? This mentality can apply to crossing the damn street. Just last week a guy was killed in the crosswalk 20 feet away from where I was having lunch. Why? He didn't do what we were all taught to do as very small children "Look both ways." And I don't know about your drivers ed program, but the biggest thing beat into my brain was how freak'n dangerous driving a car can be. It's a huge responsibility... much like racing.

Again to rsouza68... yes, take you're riding seriously and be safe. Being safe is a responsibility we all must bear, but we can still have fun and enjoy a truly unique challenge.

cheers!