locked up the front.

[FzGuy]

well, i finally managed to dump my bike pretty well. i was up next to the greek theatre going somewhere around 15-25mph (no idea exactly) and was braking as i closed up to the car ahead of me, after making a right turn when the front "partially" locked, i say this because there is an obvious skid around the entire circumference, you can even see when it skidded to the edge of the tire (month old pilot power, it was not cold). before i could do anything the front shot out to the left and i was sliding down the asphalt. got up picked the bike up and rode home (less than 10 min away). bike came out pretty unscathed (87 Fz600) upper and top right side fairing are a bit scraped up, bent the break lever, cracked the windscreen in half and scratched a side cover. i managed to bruse my hand and (never wearing jeans on a bike again) skinned my knee, im just glad i atleast had a jacket (cortech gx sport, hole in the shoulder), and gloves (some cheaper first gear's, nice hole in the palm BELOW the leather palm, managed to take off the top layer of skin where the hole was, just to the point of seeing where it was on my hand) and scraped down the knuckle guards.

what i learned: textiles are a sorry excuse for leather (buying a full suit now w/ good leather gloves), my jacket looks like it was in a much more severe situation. hole is down to the shoulder pad (but above it) and looks like the friction melted it (waaaaay to easily).

if i had been in a full suit with good leather gloves i might be brused, but i probably would also not have to replace everything but my helmet.

protect your whole body, not just the upper half. ill try and get some photos up soon.

[FzGuy]

Photos, one of the bike on page 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thesamo/)

[RhythmRider]

When using the front brake: squeeze gradually, don't grab. Locking it up doesn't have anything to do with what kind of tires you have. The lock-up occurs where the brake pad meets the disc.

Turning means less traction for braking. Brake too hard going around a turn and you will eat it.

Practice braking in a parking lot if you have to. Remember: SQUEEZE GRADUALLY!

[FzGuy]

Originally posted by GSXRider750
Turning means less traction for braking. Brake too hard going around a turn and you will eat it. Remember: SQUEEZE GRADUALLY!

see thats why it caught me, even though i still doubt i had any chance of saving it since it happened so fast. i was traveling straight and had been for a few hundred feet. i started braking well before the wheel locked, though i wasnt braking softly. also the is a very visible very smooth strip running around the whole tire then off to the right edge (dropped it on the right side), so it seems the tire didnt lock up and flat spot. ill try and get a better crappy photo of it tomorow with the sun up.

[FzGuy]

yea, and also this is not stock suspension and wheels, upgraded from front and rear bias ply to good front and rear radials, fzr 600 wheels, front rotors and GSXR 750 front 4 piston calipers w/braided lines. so it doesnt brake (or handle) like stock.....normally. i do concede that obviously since i dumped it i was going faster than this condidtion permitted, and not saying it was all the bike, im more interested in the slide pattern on the tire

[RhythmRider]

If you were going completely straight and the front started to SKID, then my guess is that the front wheel locked up.

Squeezing the front brake progressively harder allows the front suspension to compress fully without putting you on the ground. However, you can still lock the front brake this way.

If you grab the front brake abruptly, you can bottom out your front suspension and cause a slide much more easily. I think you should spend some time gradually finding the limits of your bike's braking abilities in a safe area. It would definitely help you avoid a crash like this one.

[Z3n]

Originally posted by GSXRider750
When using the front brake: squeeze gradually, don't grab. Locking it up doesn't have anything to do with what kind of tires you have. The lock-up occurs where the brake pad meets the disc.

Turning means less traction for braking. Brake too hard going around a turn and you will eat it.

Practice braking in a parking lot if you have to. Remember: SQUEEZE GRADUALLY!

Actually, for clarity, the ease or lack thereof of locking a front tire has a lot to do with the condition of the tire. A crappy, old tire, will be more prone to locking because there's less available "stick" in the tire. A just scuffed in front tire, which has been run for a bit (so it's on the rubber, not the slick coating, and is fully warmed) will be much harder to lock than a shitty tire. Aka, it will take more brake pressure to lock the front.

I warn you of this because i got used to threshold braking on my previous motorcycle, and unfortunantly, i demanded all of the stopping tire while standing the bike up and while the tires were cold...the threshold was considerably lower there then it was when i was practicing.

Also, as GSXRider says, lead into the brakes, don't just suddenly grab them...smooth in, smooth out. Also, be prepared to release them in case it does start to lock.

Go out and practice at low speed, with all your gear, in a parking lot. If you come down to SC, i'd be happy to give you a few pointers, there's a nice stretch of road near to me for this kind of thing.

[whatever whatev]

something that could have added to the ease of which you slid is the brand new tire. i dont know how many miles you put on in a month (i do something around 1000) but for the first couple hundred miles of a new tire you're wearing off the slick stuff used in the tire molds to keep them from sticking. this could have been a small factor once the bike became somewhat unstable.

[FzGuy]

while i agree that is all good info, it really doesnt apply to much to my crash. after looking at the tire today its obvious i locked it up, it started to turn again, and then theres a slide around 2/3 or the circumference at the edge, its all completely slick where it slid (tire def not cold). the edge sliding may have happened as the bike was sliding.

let me explain the lead up to this, i was coming back down the hill from the wall. front tire was clean, warm (im very comfortable on those twisties, so it was well warmed up at that point), i have literally no chicken strips either (even better on a 20 yo bike). 2 blocks before i had done a small stoppie, so it definetly had traction then. i stopped at the stopsign turned right accelerated, and started braking as i closed up on the car in front of me (they were going much slower than speed limit) but i was expecting to brake and not caught offguard, then i was sliding. the main factor here is obviously i didnt have the traction, im just perplexed as to exactly why, im gonna go check where i went down today, maybe thatll clear it up.

also, im not trying to say im not a newbie. ive had Fz's for about 6 months now and am very comfortable with them, ive gotten to the point of scraping the pegs on command, and stock clearance is pretty good. i just generally dont ride like this much of a newbie.

[FzGuy]

Originally posted by whatever whatev
something that could have added to the ease of which you slid is the brand new tire. i dont know how many miles you put on in a month (i do something around 1000) but for the first couple hundred miles of a new tire you're wearing off the slick stuff used in the tire molds to keep them from sticking. this could have been a small factor once the bike became somewhat unstable.

i have atleast a grand if not 1500 miles on the tires, since getting the pilot power this is the first time its slid on me, though i can get the bt014 (stupid 18) on the back to slide a little in turns if i really get on the gas.

[RhythmRider]

Gravel? I dunno man. Coulda been anything. Whatever it was, the advice here is still good. Hope you have better luck from now on!

[goldwing70]

Having lost the front several times myself on track days, I try to be very sensitive to what the front end is doing. Yes, I'm working on the trail brake thing, and no, I never do this on the street.

Problem is that I'm still not sure what the sensation is at the point of lockup. I have lost the front on both street tires and slicks. It seems like I have grip and then I don't. What does the slipping part feel like, before the point of no return?

[wsmc831]

Originally posted by whatever whatev
something that could have added to the ease of which you slid is the brand new tire. i dont know how many miles you put on in a month (i do something around 1000) but for the first couple hundred miles of a new tire you're wearing off the slick stuff used in the tire molds to keep them from sticking. this could have been a small factor once the bike became somewhat unstable.

what slick stuff is that exactly? the mold release compound they haven't used in years, or the natural oils in the tire?


tires are ready to be ridden hard in just a few miles on the street, not a few hundred.

[Enchanter]

Originally posted by FzGuy
also, im not trying to say im not a newbie. ive had Fz's for about 6 months now and am very comfortable with them, ive gotten to the point of scraping the pegs on command, and stock clearance is pretty good. i just generally dont ride like this much of a newbie.

1500mi / 6 months of riding.....you are still a newbie. The amount of miles you travel, the number of months you have ridden does not mean a thing. You would do well to do a BARF search on 'Fr0ng' or 'frong' and learn what the results were for someone else that thought that a few months, a few miles, and 'being comfortable' was good enough.

[FzGuy]

i agree, i am new at all this, ive put 1500 miles on the bike since i put the newer wheels on more like 5000 on the bike for me overall in the 6 mo (under employed for a while, would venture up to tilden alot), since dumping it ive replaced all my gear (no jeans again), the bike is fine (put on a new brake lever) and im being WAAAY more cautious about road surface and making a point to stay off the crown of the road when im braking, especially when following other cars. havent gotten another slide out of the tire either.