Crash on corner where a turn is straight for other direction.

[Climber]

I saw this post on another site and thought that it would be good for discussion. It is not me.

Fucking truck coming the other direction made a left turn in front of me...no signals, nothing.

i was hard on the binders, sliding the bike sideways trying to go left, and it seems like the truck stared to slow, cause i thought i was going to be able to slide around the back of the truck, but didn't.

i connected with the rear passenger tire and went down. truck drove off. never even came to a stop. mother fucker.

broke the crank case cover on the rim of the truck and broke the stator cover on the ground. shoulder took a light impact onto the rear quarter panel, but i'm fine.
fuschia = me, black = truck, red = impact spot.

i was headed west (i wrote east in my previous post on accident) on mt vernon headed back towards lincoln. that turn is a posted 15mph left hander in a 45mph done. i was only doing about 25 through it, as i KNOW there's that other road there and that this kinda shit could happen. they made a left and i tried to cut left to avoid. ended up catching the rear tire right about on the DY. my normal line through that turn is pretty wide right so i can late apex, as it's NOT a blind turn. not in either direction. it's an uphill turn going in the direction i was headed.
Edit: I did not post the riders name because that is not germane to the conversation, and it wouldn't add to the discussion for anybody else to post their name. If they wish to chime in, that is up to them.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/205/627/3174925-crash_spot.jpg

[Climber]

I'm always very cautious when going through a left hand turn when there are roads leading off on the outside of the turn, especially when it's a straight shot for the driver coming from the other way.

In this case it seems like the rider is somewhat at fault because they were going 67% over the posted speed for that curve, regardless of how fast they could safely take it.

[redline]

The truck made a left? Or did the truck just continue straight (illegally, I would guess)?

Not familiar with the road. From the picture, that road looks like an accident waiting to happen: The truck might go straight, or it might turn right. No visible stop sign from the truck's direction (prob. covered by tree). So, it looks like the truck would already be moving at speed at the impact point.

With the overhead pic (@ 20/20 hindsight), it looks like the bike would've been better off to run wide in the turn:

If he went straight (not take the turn at all) he would've missed the truck & ended up off road.

If he ran wide on the turn, he would've either stayed on the road or ran wide into the trees.

Looks like a fun turn that is totally ruined by the high likelihood of cars going right into your path.

[zeefrenchspy]

It was posted on here a couple days ago. Since you chose not to mention the rider, I won't either, but he started a thread here about it as well.

Definitely looks like the kind of intersection where you would have to be expecting people to pull some stupid shit on you though!

[Hoologan]

He says the speed limit was 45. If it was a 15 mph marked corner (yellow sign I assume), then that is the RECOMMENDED speed, not the speed limit. So, he was NOT going 67% over the speed limit.

Having said that, most of the time it is rediculous to take a 15MPH posted corner at 15MPH on a bike, but in this circumstance it is posted that way for an obvious reason (kind of like when they post a slow speed through a sweeper, but it has nothing to do with the corner, only because there's an intersection ahead or something). Even then, 25MPH on a bike seems to me like a perfectly manageable speed for the radius of that turn.

I think the truck blew the stop sign.

This was posted on barf a couple of days ago.

[Alan_Hepburn]

Originally posted by redline
...No visible stop sign from the truck's direction (prob. covered by tree).

Actually, it's not very clear, but I think I see what might be a limit line directly behind the arrow head on the black arrow - but it's not as clear as the limit lines on the portion of the roadway above the intersection.

[Climber]

Originally posted by zeefrenchspy
It was posted on here a couple days ago. Since you chose not to mention the rider, I won't either, but he started a thread here about it as well.

Definitely looks like the kind of intersection where you would have to be expecting people to pull some stupid shit on you though!
Sorry, I looked for his username in the 'thread starter' in the 'Crash Analysis' section and didn't see it.

It's one of those cases where riders who haven't thought about this situation really should so I thought it was a good case for people to discuss.

Edit: Found his thread in the General section: 'bout done with the street (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=205053)

[RhythmRider]

That's just a dangerous intersection. Dumb fucker left the scene, though. Legally that makes him 100% responsible.

[Enchanter]

Originally posted by GSXRider750
That's just a dangerous intersection. Dumb fucker left the scene, though. Legally that makes him 100% responsible.
Fleeing the scene of an accident does not make them legally responsible for the accident. There are many more variables that influence responsibility.

[caponerd]

I saw the same thread.

The problem there is that the "left turn" is actually going straight, and even though the actual road turns to the right, I'm sure that many drivers in the area are in the habit of just blowing right through that thing when they want to take the side road.

If it had been in an area where I rode often, I'd be wary of any vehicle approaching from that direction, and be ready for them to make that "left" turn.

[masameet]

Now that's a nasty intersection that, no doubt in my mind, contributed to the rider's accident. I didn't read his thread through but I hope he petitions whichever governing traffic safety board to change that intersection's design. For safety's sake and for all crossing traffic, it probably should be made into a T-intersection and thus a 3-way stop sign. If he can find any traffic history of incidents for that intersection, his petition would be stronger.

[Mad Gnome]

Yup tricky intersection. Did that truck have a stop sign? Since he was turning and crossing a lane of incoming traffic the onus is on him to look for approaching traffic. That is a fairly wide sweeper though, at 25 MPH you would think the MC would have enough time to stop with some hard breaking... easy to say when you are not staring at a quickly approaching truck's side while on a turn. The fact that the truck did not stop says something about the truck driver though.
Hmm So What do you think?
I've noted that when the sign reads a posted speed limit (reccomended?) that is what you can get pulled over for going over. I think it goes under "posted speed limit" rather than the average for that road. Anything above that could be seen as "reckless" driving, or exceeding the posted speed limit- should Smokey decide he doesnt like people "hanging off" on his beat.

That being said I've found that bikes seem to easily be able to safely navigate turns at double what is posted (under good conditions, no gravel etc.). With a moderately skilled and alert rider I think that factor could be safely larger.
When I started riding I found 2x posted a helpful guage, that didnt get me into too much trouble.
An exception being some of those 5- 10 MPH turns where it can be tricky to carry any speed into. I still creep around some of those, especially on unfamiliar roads.

[TypeIII]

I would've been very careful at that intersection even if I was in a cage.

Assuming I know the intersection...

[nine_inch_rear]

Where is that intersection?

[Aluisious]

Rider at fault. Truck should signal, but the rider can't blame anyone for putting himself in the position for that to happen.

If you're at a funny traffic spot like that and there is another vehicle, you slow down (or speed up, depending on distances etc) and see what they're going to do.

You pretty much have to assume this sort of thing will happen.

[PorradaVFR]

Originally posted by Aluisious
Rider at fault. Truck should signal, but the rider can't blame anyone for putting himself in the position for that to happen.

Bike has the right of way, it would appear, given that the truck would have to CROSS a lane to continue straight.

Truck should not only signal, but also yield to oncoming traffic. The rider can absolutely blame the truck for not yielding.

[Enchanter]

Let me clarify something about the Crash Analysis Forum. This forum was put in place to learn what we can do to avoid the crash should we ever find ourselves in a similar situation. It is NOT about who is to be held legally responsible.

Posts in this forum shall be on topic and constructive in nature. People need a safe place to go to admit their mistakes without facing the brunt of negative comments or bullshit attitudes. The thread will get locked if we fail to follow these guidelines.