I miss downshifts... [Archive] - BARF

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DucatiHoney

07-21-2007, 11:19 AM

...a lot. Too frequently. It's vexing me.

I thought it was just the bike, but it's not. I miss them on every bike I ride. I use the "blip method" where ya give it a little gas to bring the engine up to speed, grab the clutch, and then tap it into the lower gear. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I think I get a little lazy with the "tap" sometimes, and it doesn't go all the way in. Then I sit there coasting for a second or three, tap it back up into gear and then try it all over again. No, I don't just try tapping it into the lower gear after I've been coasting. I don't know what's going on, but it sounds like grinding when I do it--so I don't. I shift back up and then down again if I miss my initial try.

Do I need to tap the shifter with a little more force when I'm doing this? (I notice I miss them more if I'm tired.) Is my timing off? I've done this on my Monster, the FZR and most recently an '05 R6. It's not the bikes. It's me. :mad

Ironbutt

07-21-2007, 11:25 AM

Shift with conviction, timing helps too.. but not so much you bend shift fork..

DucatiHoney

07-21-2007, 11:47 AM

I get the feeling when I talk to other people that I'm very "gentle" or "light" with all of my inputs. Maybe it is just a matter of being a bit more aggressive with everything.

What's a shift fork?

2strokeYardSale

07-21-2007, 12:53 PM

grab neutral
Huh?

Be more forceful. Tapping doesn't cut it. You can re-position the shifter to help.

DucatiHoney

07-21-2007, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by 2strokeYardSale
Huh?

Be more forceful. Tapping doesn't cut it. You can re-position the shifter to help.

Grab "the clutch" not "neutral" is what I meant. I double shift in the car, too, so I got my stuff mixed up.

The shifter is dead on in my opinion. This was the first thing I looked into. It's an obvious and easy fix...but it didn't solve the problem. I've tried several different positions on both my street and track bikes. And like I said--I get it on different bikes. The common thread is yours truly. I think y'all are right. I'm just a wimp with the pressing down. If you saw me, you'd know why. I'm a little runt with a light touch.

2strokeYardSale

07-21-2007, 01:29 PM

Does your ankle/foot have a limited range of motion? You may not be able to angle it down enough for enough shifter lever travel.

It's not pretty, but you can take your foot off the peg and step/stomp down on the shifter. You see this in pro racing sometimes, for reasons I don't understand.

DucatiHoney

07-21-2007, 01:49 PM

all my body parts are in good working order--no limited range of motion. I generally find that I take my foot off the peg a little and tap on the shifter anyway.

uraniaclio

07-22-2007, 10:06 PM

It might be that u're not pulling the clutch in far enough. I miss downshift into 1 or 2 a lot when I just lightly pull the clutch with just 2 fingers. My shifter is a little off I suspect though. I tend to grab a lot more clutch downshifting into 1 or 2nd just to be sure.

RhythmRider

07-22-2007, 11:23 PM

Pre-load shift lever with foot, pull in clutch 1/3rd of the way, revving the engine up a bit simultaneously, release smoothly. Hit your shift every time and won't even feel the suspension twitch.

DucatiHoney

07-22-2007, 11:26 PM

I think the Urinal-one might be onto something. I don't pull in the clutch far enough a lot of the time. I have a weak left hand anyway, and it would make sense as fatigue set in that I would be worse about getting the lever in.

Rhythm, I'll remember to pre-load the lever from now on. I'm very good about doing that on the upshifts, but don't do it for downshifts.

Z3n

07-22-2007, 11:49 PM

Adjust your clutch lever and make sure that it's engaging where it should. Clutch wear can really mess with where the lever engages, and it'll creep inwards until you don't engage the clutch at all when you tap it. CRG's did wonders for me on this front because they allow me to adjust the levers for distance and the clutch cable itself for tightness. Now it engages immediately when i tap the lever.

Beyond that, firmly push it in gear. No f'ing around with it. Also, make sure you're giving it enough of a blip...too much blip means the bike surges forward a little bit. Too little blip means you're more likely to end up between gears...guess which is worse ;)

Baptistro

07-23-2007, 10:30 AM

Blipping is an option, not a requirement, and has nothing to do with a missed shift. The missed shifts are coming either from your left hand or your left foot. Stop tapping and press all the way down on the shift lever. Combine that with using more of the travel on the clutch lever and you should not have any problems.

Z3n

07-23-2007, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Baptistro
Blipping is an option, not a requirement, and has nothing to do with a missed shift. The missed shifts are coming either from your left hand or your left foot. Stop tapping and press all the way down on the shift lever. Combine that with using more of the travel on the clutch lever and you should not have any problems.

Huh, it always seemed to me that when i didn't blip hard enough was when i missed most of my shifts. I tend to just tap the clutch 95% of the time, when i'm not intentionally slipping it, so I assumed that i wasn't unloading the gears enough and that they were ending up in gearbox la la land as a result.

DucatiHoney

07-23-2007, 11:37 AM

uraniaclio

07-23-2007, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by DucatiHoney
I think the Urinal-one might be onto something. I don't pull in the clutch far enough a lot of the time. I have a weak left hand anyway, and it would make sense as fatigue set in that I would be worse about getting the lever in.

Rhythm, I'll remember to pre-load the lever from now on. I'm very good about doing that on the upshifts, but don't do it for downshifts.

I noticed my 749S has a real mushy gear box and finicky cluth. It's the price you pay for riding Italian. But the sound...mid corner planted-ness...and the pull out of corners. :)

Lazerus

07-24-2007, 09:45 AM

Is it all gears, or just first? Every bike I have ridden is difficult to get into first while rolling without catching that "grinding" sensation. JP did a pretty cool thread on downshifts a while back that helped me alot

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=199356&highlight=downshifts

hope this helps. If it creates more questions, just keep reading because I think that I asked them all :teeth

DucatiHoney

07-24-2007, 09:52 AM

Given the varying responses here, I did a little experiment involving the three aspects of my problem: clutch, shifter peg, and throttle...

1. I tried being lazy/sloppy with my clutch (but being very good about the other two things)

2. I tried being lazy/sloppy with my foot only (but good about the other two)

3. I tried being lazy/sloppy only with the throttle (etc...)

Being half-a$$ed with the clutch made a huge difference. I would often, if not always, miss the shift if I didn't pull the lever in enough. Being lazy with the foot peg made almost no difference. It doesn't take much to tap into gear. I tried all sorts of positions and methods with this one. I had to work really hard NOT to make it go into gear if I was good about the clutch and blipping. And then I tried no blipping, sloppy blipping (not giving it enough, or not blipping long enough.) The blipping had zero effect on weather the bike went into gear which is more important with a big twin like mine.

Thanks for the help guys! It's nice to know the root of the problem finally. I might try doing some hand exercises to strengthen my grip (no dirty jokes, ya pervs...) :p My Duc clutch and the FZR clutch are both a bit stiff and that contributes to the problem.

Nochknstrps

08-18-2007, 05:50 PM

When I was playing Foot ball coach always gave me a tennis ball at the begining of the season. When I would sit and watch T.V. at home I would try to squeeze the ball. Big diff on hand strength. It will condition it. Don't worry your not going to get big burly hands from it..:teeth

try it...

Lester Green

08-18-2007, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by DucatiHoney
I might try doing some hand exercises to strengthen my grip

I've got this mental image of a gorgeous petite chick squeezing something...........that is attached to ME!!!!!!! :drool :loco :teeth

DucatiHoney

08-18-2007, 08:44 PM

There's something in the water here on BARF. The guys all need cold showers recently. :p

I'll try the hand strengthening exercises, ALONE, thank you. :laughing

Stormdragon

08-19-2007, 05:12 PM

Nochknstrps

08-19-2007, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Stormdragon
Well, alone is why you'd need the hand strength, ain't it? :laughing

:rofl

redline

08-21-2007, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by DucatiHoney
There's something in the water here on BARF. The guys all need cold showers recently. :p

I'll try the hand strengthening exercises, ALONE, thank you. :laughing

Poor thing! We've been restless. Since you won't let us "help you" then maybe this moto-part will help...

You said you injured your hand. This part is supposed to reduce the amount of force needed to pull the clutch cable (Yes, I'm so thoughful :blush )

EASY PULL CLUTCH SYSTEM
http://www.mooseracing.com/GLOBAL/images/CatalogManager/showImage.jsp?class_id=5551&image_type=fullsize&rank=100

Moose Racing makes them. They're intended for dirtbikes. Hopefully your Duc uses cable not hydraulics for the clutch.

Here's their website:
http://www.mooseracing.com

:angel You know what else would help your sore hand? An ice mocha. Come on over to the Tuesday Snellbux meets...;)

DucatiHoney

08-21-2007, 09:02 PM

It's a nice gesture, but the clutch is most definitely hydraulic. Fortunately I have a rockin' SLAVE cylinder and a nice....long....CRG lever. I just love saying that. :laughing

...and I don't drink coffee, but thanks for the invite. I'm a tea-girl. I don't have anything against coffee. I just never developed a taste for it. It's one of the few things I dislike...along with celery. Blech. And Tuesdays are my cycling nights. Yes, the obsession with two wheels goes beyond the motorized kind. ;)