Castro Street in Mountain View

[marcls]

I'd like some advice about the correct place to stop.. Shown below in the illustration is the corner of California and Castro in Mountain View. For reasons we won't speculate about, the city fathers have placed an obstruction, shown as a dark gray circle, smack in the middle of the intersection.

Scenario 1: Motorcycle is approaching from the right, traveling left as shown. Traffic light No.1 turns red prior to the time motorcycle enters the intersection. motorcycle must stop before the crosswalk, indicated by two parellel dashed ines, on the right side of the intersection. That's obvious, right?

Scenario 2: Motorcycle is again approaching from the right, traveling left as shown. Traffic light No.1 is green as motorcycle enters the intersection. Car in front of motorcycle (car is not shown in the illustration) decides to let pedestrian cross the street in the left crosswalk, against the "Don't Walk" sign. The car stops. Motorcycle must stop to avoid a collision with the car. While waitng for the pedestrian to cross, Car and motorcycle are in the intersection when traffic light no.2 turns red. Car proceeds through the intersection. Motorcycle is in the intersection, but shielded from cross traffic by the obstruction. What should the motorcycle do:
a. Remain where he/she is, in the middle of the intersection.
b. Proceed through the left crosswalk, ignoring the red light.
c. other?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Marc

[hitman5532]

I'd like some advice about the correct place to stop.. Shown below in the illustration is the corner of California and Castro in Mountain View. For reasons we won't speculate about, the city fathers have placed an obstruction, shown as a dark gray circle, smack in the middle of the intersection.

Scenario 1: Motorcycle is approaching from the right, traveling left as shown. Traffic light No.1 turns red prior to the time motorcycle enters the intersection. motorcycle must stop before the crosswalk, indicated by two parellel dashed ines, on the right side of the intersection. That's obvious, right?

Scenario 2: Motorcycle is again approaching from the right, traveling left as shown. Traffic light No.1 is green as motorcycle enters the intersection. Car in front of motorcycle (car is not shown in the illustration) decides to let pedestrian cross the street in the left crosswalk, against the "Don't Walk" sign. The car stops. Motorcycle must stop to avoid a collision with the car. While waitng for the pedestrian to cross, Car and motorcycle are in the intersection when traffic light no.2 turns red. Car proceeds through the intersection. Motorcycle is in the intersection, but shielded from cross traffic by the obstruction. What should the motorcycle do:
a. Remain where he/she is, in the middle of the intersection.
b. Proceed through the left crosswalk, ignoring the red light.
c. other?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Marc

i would continue to proceed through when safe, if you were already in the intersection before turns red you are not running a red light, and IIRC still retain the right of way

[JPM]

i would continue to proceed through when safe, if you were already in the intersection before turns red you are not running a red light, and IIRC still retain the right of way


Correct, however there is one major rule on a motorcycle even if you have the legal right-of-way. ALWAYS YIELD TO TONNAGE!
Clear the intersection if it’s safe to do so. If not, wait until it is. And even though some say I should have “better things to do”, this is exactly why I cite pedestrians that violate the crosswalk signals when vehicles are around.

[hitman5532]

Correct, however there is one major rule on a motorcycle even if you have the legal right-of-way. ALWAYS YIELD TO TONNAGE!
Clear the intersection if it’s safe to do so. If not, wait until it is.

dont get me wrong... i said 'proceed through when safe'

[JPM]

dont get me wrong... i said 'proceed through when safe'

I was agreeing with you, when I said correct when I referred to your post. I was just emphasizing that even if you have the legal right-of-way, to still use common sense and stay alive! :thumbup

[NorCalBusa]

And even though some say I should have “better things to do”, this is exactly why I cite pedestrians that violate the crosswalk signals when vehicles are around.

Just a wild guess, but would those be the folks who get the little yellow slips?

[Burning1]

a. Remain where he/she is, in the middle of the intersection.
b. Proceed through the left crosswalk, ignoring the red light.
c. other?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Marc

I would answer this with: "Do what you feel is most safe."

There is president in California that a red light is not absolute. If there is a genuine safety hazard, and the only safe response is to enter or stay in an intersection when the light turns red, then you have a valid (and tested) defense in court.

You may still be cited. As always, it depends on the judgment of the officer. : )

[motorman4life]

If there is no limit line in the intersection (for the 2nd light) then there is no expectation for you to stop in the intersection for that light. The limit line is key.

If you get stuck there and cross traffic starts up, you could easily wait there (where it is safe) until you get a fresh green. But, remember, you can't just GO on the fresh green. Any vehicle or pedestrian that is within the intersection has a right to proceed.

That said, you had a "right" to proceed out of the intersection if you entered lawfully. In your scenario, the initial pedestrian that held up traffic was likely crossing on a red... since your direction had a green.

Messed up all around. Do what you think is safe given the situation as it unfolds. Look for a limit line whenever you feel compelled to stop for a signal. If there is no limit line or crosswalk line for you to stop behind, then you may want to look for a safe place to get to, but there should be no expectation for you to stop where there is no line.

[mnb]

Clearly the cager should have punched it and flattened the illegally crossing pedestrian so that the intersection could be cleared in time. ;)

Damned cagers always making it hard on us bikers! :rant

[marcls]

[snip] If there is no limit line or crosswalk line for you to stop behind, then you may want to look for a safe place to get to, but there should be no expectation for you to stop where there is no line.

That's the essence of my question, MM4L. I was concerned about transiting a crosswalk, on the far side of the intersection, when traffic light No. 2 was red. If I understand you correctly, I have the legal right to do that if I'm in the intersection and have entered it legally, right?

[JPM]

Just a wild guess, but would those be the folks who get the little yellow slips?

Now it's a 2 foot long white printed paper that looks like a Safeway receipt, technology. Sad thing is I can long longer say “press hard” as it is a touch screen they sign. But I can print out as many copies as I want! :teeth

[Don Tuite]

Just to add to what MM4L said, if a driver going "up" on Castro in your drawing has a green light at California and wants to turn left, he's not going to be expecting you to be blocking his way. If you cause him to stop with his ass hanging out in the middle of Castro and somebody else wants to go straight on that green llight, it's going to turn into a real clusterthingie.

But you *do* have to yield to traffic and peds going "down" on Castro.

(And the car *did" have to yield to the jaywalker.)

Don