I hate Vista. Going to Mac.

[autoredial]

I hate the fact that all new comps are loaded with vista. It's slow and way too overloaded with crap. It's like every time I buy a computer I have to format and reinstall everything because of the bundled crap they load on there and now, the operating system.

Is there anywhere to get a computer without all the bundles crap and vista?

I'm thinking of going powerbook. Pretty expensive but I assume the os is decent and no bundled crap like netzero, norton, etc?

[Papi-C]

IIRC you can buy a dell w/ linux or no OS.

Or you could just build your own.

[afm199]

New macs run the same dual or quad core Intels as the new windows based PCs. They are fast, yes. You won't find good technical hardware, industry standard is not Mac. Good graphics, fast sound and image processing.

Why not go back to XP Pro? I am keeping mine.

The Mac book will also dual boot in OSX or XP Pro, a neat feature.

[RydTher]

Apple computers come bundled with a couple demos of software, but no anti virus software etc

and the software that is bundled is super simple to uninstall/erase. no real need to reinstall the OS as in windows.

one way to not have all the extra crap software on windows machines is to build your own, and you can also choose XP alot easier that way, but you wont save any $$ that way. The big manufacturers have economies of scale the individual builder just cant touch.

[Psychochik]

We just got 30 new Dells in our office and I asked if they were Vista and our IT guy just about came unglued and emphatically stated NO, Vista is crap and I would never purchase anything with it. :rofl :rofl

So, I guess you can buy a Dell without.

[Climber]

Use the reinstall disk and only install what you want when you get the computer. ;)

Or do what Ernie suggests and use the install disk from a previous computer that used xp if you went with the same manufacturer (like Dell).

On a similar note, has anybody else gotten Office 2007? It's REALLY SLOW and gets confused (for a long time trying to browse for documents) if you have a network drive that is mapped to a computer which isn't currently turned on. :wtf

[Zerox]

It's like every time I buy a computer I have to format and reinstall everything because of the bundled crap they load on there and now, the operating system.

Cool, give a new Mac a try, heck it's only a computer. If you don't like it you can always go back to whatever you were using before.

Apple has the new-computer setup thing nailed IMHO, when I got my current iMac, I used a FireWire cable to connect it to my old Mac. Then rebooted so one Mac shows up on the other Mac's desktop as an external hard drive. Then told it to copy all my crap from the old Mac to my new Mac, including all the DSL settings, passwords, preferences etc, so when I rebooted the new Mac it looked just like my old Mac except a whole lot faster. Painless!

(I also use XP at work, no way will our IT dept install Vista anytime soon)

[Samurang]

On a similar note, has anybody else gotten Office 2007? It's REALLY SLOW and gets confused (for a long time trying to browse for documents) if you have a network drive that is mapped to a computer which isn't currently turned on. :wtf

Have you tried disconnecting the network drives and remapping them?

[uhmeebuh]

We just got 30 new Dells in our office and I asked if they were Vista and our IT guy just about came unglued and emphatically stated NO, Vista is crap and I would never purchase anything with it. :rofl :rofl

So, I guess you can buy a Dell without.

Not anymore - consumers aren't given a choice to purchase XP or Vista. If you want to buy a new desktop/laptop and want windows you have to buy Vista now. MS quickly (and quietly) removed the XP option...

But Vista SP2 is coming out in a couple months so that should take care of a number of current vista problems...but I doubt IT pros will feel warm and fuzzy about Vista then...

[Nastradamus]

i like my nVidia 8800 Ultra graphic card.. mac doesnt offer that

[afm199]

Apropos to nothing, Oracle only recently upgraded from Windows 98!!!! to XP. Ellison hates giving Bill money.

[MtnRacer]

Or you could upgrade your ram for $50. I haven't had any problems with Vista, even with newer hardware. (680i chipset, 8800GTX) Navigating to find where they put the old menus is a pain in the ass, but not a deal breaker.

Steve

P.S. If you want a computer without all the crap, build your own. It's easy, costs about the same, and much faster.

[Sane_Man]

I had some free time last weekend and a found copy of Vista Ultimate. I installed it on a spare drive to see what it is all about. Looks like XP Pro with a few extra add-ons that you can get for XP.

What sucks, is that it can't see my SATA drives, even though the drivers are loaded. Apparently, Nvidia did not want to update their Nforce3 chipset drivers, which a huge market still have, and are totally pissed about. Drive access is slow, especially if you want to see thumbnails. I would run it only for the fact it is something different after staring at XP for years, but it isn't worth the money MS wants for it.

I just found four other drivers it wouldn't load, so at this point getting it for free is not even a good deal. :rolleyes

[m_asim]

one way to not have all the extra crap software on windows machines is to build your own, and you can also choose XP alot easier that way, but you wont save any $$ that way. The big manufacturers have economies of scale the individual builder just cant touch.


True dat. But the quality is much better. The same computer I built in 2000 is still working although I don't use it much on acount of its 666MHz process and 256MB 133MHz RAM .

[MtnRacer]

^Truth. And once you've invested in a few reusable components (case, power supply, audio card, etc) building a new PC can be cheaper than pre-manufactured one and have much higher quality components. That's the real advantage because often you may buy a PC with a "ATI video card" or a "soundblaster" sound card, but what you're getting is just the chipset on their crap card made by some unknown 3rd party, who often don't get it right. Try finding drivers that work for that, PITA.

Steve

[SirFonners]

just install XP or Ubuntu onto your computer
vista is shiiiiiiiiit it runs horribly slow unless you spend
several hundreds to get a maxed out computer
even then the whole look and feel of vista just feels dumb.

Although I love macs so I do recommend you check one out
but also check out about just installing Ubuntu, I like it.

[Valgar]

Not anymore - consumers aren't given a choice to purchase XP or Vista. If you want to buy a new desktop/laptop and want windows you have to buy Vista now. MS quickly (and quietly) removed the XP option...

But Vista SP2 is coming out in a couple months so that should take care of a number of current vista problems...but I doubt IT pros will feel warm and fuzzy about Vista then...

Just to clarify, you might mean individual consumers? Because EVERY desktop/laptop (we just bought 60 more) that we purchase for work comes with XP pro, this is through Dell, and also through CDW.

[Climber]

Have you tried disconnecting the network drives and remapping them?
That's not the issue. I had a network drive mapped to my wife's computer so that when I uploaded pictures from our digital camera, I could just drag the photos to the drive mapped to her computer (when it was turned on and connected) without having to go to network computers, etc. That worked fine until I installed Office 2007 and found that browsing for a file caused a 20+ second delay for every folder I tried to go to. A bit of internet searching indicated that the problem was network drives that weren't attached to anything (:wtf).

[Obscura]

I definitely suggest that you stick with XP be it home/office/pro , Vista is still faulty to a point and from personal experiance XP is just so much more reliable and I would have honestly stuck with Win98 if my current applications didn't require XP or higher.

Outside of the debate for which one is better via PC or Mac, its all personal preference and what you plan to use the machine for. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, go for what'll suit you best.

[Ratters]

Now that my gaming computer is sorted out I'm really liking Vista. Games in DX10=:thumbup

Wish the laptop still had XP, though since I only use it for internet and light word processing it doesn't make that much of a difference.

We just got new Dells at work. All came with XPpro.

[Samurang]

That's not the issue. I had a network drive mapped to my wife's computer so that when I uploaded pictures from our digital camera, I could just drag the photos to the drive mapped to her computer (when it was turned on and connected) without having to go to network computers, etc. That worked fine until I installed Office 2007 and found that browsing for a file caused a 20+ second delay for every folder I tried to go to. A bit of internet searching indicated that the problem was network drives that weren't attached to anything (:wtf).

Windows is "pre-scanning" all the image files you have on the local machine as well as anything in the network. That part usually comes in a windows update, didn't realize that was also in 2007.
Office 2007 lasted about a week on my machine, I had to revert back to 2k3.

No IT dept in their right mind would put Vista on the network. Strange how it sees all the network shares without putting the Vista machine on the domain. But there's always some corporate jackass in a higher position who always has to demand that damned OS.

My biggest problem with it is, from a dev perspective, it forces you to use MS based tools. MS took out any support or compatibility with more "open sourced" stuff.

[MtnRacer]

Now that my gaming computer is sorted out I'm really liking Vista. Games in DX10=:thumbup

Wish the laptop still had XP, though since I only use it for internet and light word processing it doesn't make that much of a difference.

We just got new Dells at work. All came with XPpro.
Have you played company of heroes? It looked like DX10 was having issues with shadows in that game and I wasn't sure if it was the nvidia drivers I was using or DX10 itself.

Steve

[tuxumino]

generally if I have to buy a PC, I go to the local mom and pop shop and buy a generic box and buy the OS seperately, then have the shop load the OS. Costs a little more than fry's or such, but then when the thing breaks i can just take it to the shop and they can fix it with out hassle.

BTW I'm in IT and hate computers.

I'll have to try a new mac sometime, my only issue with macs is they're like cooking in someone elses kitchen, I can't find the utensil I'm looking for quickly.

[Ratters]

Have you played company of heroes? It looked like DX10 was having issues with shadows in that game and I wasn't sure if it was the nvidia drivers I was using or DX10 itself.

Steve

Haven't played that one yet. I've had no issues so far.

As for mac, that's what we used to have at work. Hated it. Absolutely hated it. To me the operating system seemed counter intuitive and I hated the file system.

[Kewl Breeze]

Coming from a 20 yr+ mac user with no complaints, all I can say is if you decide to go mac, either:
1) Have them install Tiger instead of Leopard before you buy
or 2) Wait for the next o/s update
The new version of Leopard is very buggy and not nearly as stable as Tiger.

[RydTher]

MS has quietly extended the retail availability of XP because of how badly/slowly Vista is being adopted.

[uhmeebuh]

Just to clarify, you might mean individual consumers? Because EVERY desktop/laptop (we just bought 60 more) that we purchase for work comes with XP pro, this is through Dell, and also through CDW.

Yup - consumers (not businesses) no longer get a choice. And I can't setup a biz acct anymore with these companies and get around this issue. Sure - IT depts can get XP but this is about consumer purchases, right?
That being said, go ahead and get a vista system put XP on it (pm me for details :teeth)

[Nastradamus]

get kitty update.. much cuter and much friendlier update :p

[rritterson]

Coming from a 20 yr+ mac user with no complaints, all I can say is if you decide to go mac, either:
1) Have them install Tiger instead of Leopard before you buy
or 2) Wait for the next o/s update
The new version of Leopard is very buggy and not nearly as stable as Tiger.

I don't have 20 years of experience, but I have put leopard on 6 different machines now, of varying age and configuration, and I have no complaints.

I do think, though, that the Macbook Pros (i.e. renamed Powerbooks) are overpriced. You won't find a macbook slow, and you won't miss scratching the aluminum on the Pro either. Of course, if you need a feature of the pro YMMV.

Wait until after macworld if you do decide to buy, though. Hardware may be upgraded, and there are strong rumors of a touch-based computer coming out soon (like a giant iPhone)

[tchaftantouri]

Build your own and buy xp to load.

[03suprchikn]

I had a free copy of Vista and gave it a try. This OS is retarded. Once they get a couple of service pack updates it should be fine. Shit...... XP has another service pack update in the works too.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140649-c,xp/article.html

[R3DS!X]

i dont know what ppl are complaining about. my comp has been running faster since i installed vista, my laptop before it was stolen also ran faster.

im happy with vista and havent had any problems.

[Samurang]

Only reason for me to run Vista occasionally is for the DirectX10.

Can they pump one out for XP? Please?

I only have a couple games that would run in DX10, so far I'm not impressed, in fact they don't work that well, not yet. Doesn't seem to take advantage or the features DX10's supposed to give. Still early in the game though, no pun intended.

[dissolvedego]

what did you do, check out best buy and give up? lots of people are selling machines without operating systems pre-installed, or with XP. in fact, most of the best deals you can find are from small companies who build PCs and let you choose whether or not you want an OS included. and of course, the cheapest route is to build your own.

mac = the most expensive route.

[rritterson]

mac = the most expensive route.

Depends on how much your time is worth to you. The maintenance time required for a mac is much lower. The time required to build a PC from scratch is also substantial.

[R3DS!X]

it takes a day at best.

[rritterson]

it takes a day at best.

At best. When a major parts retailer sells you a motherboard that is incompatible with the CPU you also bought because the motherboard is running a draft version of the firmware, which takes days of troubleshooting to discover, it can take much longer. When said retailer then refuses to admit the mistake and makes you call long-distance to taiwan to the motherboard maker to get an RMA, then replaces the bad motherboard with another identical item, it can take even longer.

I used to build PCs back before I had a job. Now I need a computer that works, all the time, without me having to constantly manage and update it. PC building is a hobby I can no longer afford.

[MtnRacer]

I have never, in 15 years of PC building, had a mobo that was incompatible with a cpu. Sounds like bad luck. Every component is so plug and play now that a monkey could put one together. There are no jumper settings, BIOS setups, anything else you need to worry about anymore. You just plug it all in and it works. The worst (and only) problem I had with building my last box was getting a good seat for the heatsink on the cpu. Literally, that was it. It took longer for the OS to install than it did for me to put everything together.

Steve

[R3DS!X]

At best. When a major parts retailer sells you a motherboard that is incompatible with the CPU you also bought because the motherboard is running a draft version of the firmware, which takes days of troubleshooting to discover, it can take much longer. When said retailer then refuses to admit the mistake and makes you call long-distance to taiwan to the motherboard maker to get an RMA, then replaces the bad motherboard with another identical item, it can take even longer.

I used to build PCs back before I had a job. Now I need a computer that works, all the time, without me having to constantly manage and update it. PC building is a hobby I can no longer afford.
why would YOU buy a mobo that was incompatible, never trust kids that work at retail stores. the way things are in retail it becomes your job to do your own research. if they hire people who actually know what they are talking about they have to pay them more and then the prices you pay get higher.
you should always update all firmware and drivers for you as soon as you get them.

[Sane_Man]

I have never, in 15 years of PC building, had a mobo that was incompatible with a cpu. Sounds like bad luck. Every component is so plug and play now that a monkey could put one together. There are no jumper settings, BIOS setups, anything else you need to worry about anymore. You just plug it all in and it works. The worst (and only) problem I had with building my last box was getting a good seat for the heatsink on the cpu. Literally, that was it. It took longer for the OS to install than it did for me to put everything together.

Steve

I just got back from Fry's, researching deals on upgrading my system.

As long as you got the proper CPU for the MB socket, I can't imagine why any CPU wouldn't work. I don't think it is possible to install any combination of parts that won't work in a PC these days. Other then buying a SATA drive when you needed a PATA, or a AGP video card when you wanted a PCI-E, you can't screw it up.

[rritterson]

why would YOU buy a mobo that was incompatible

Because what it said on the box was incorrect? There were two version of the mobo. I had an old version in a new version box. The firmware was non-updatable, or I would have updated it as soon as I figured out the problem. I am not saying what happened to me was a common problem. However, there are numerous problems you are likely to encounter, and when you consider all of them, the statistical likelihood of running into at least one problem is high.

Don't get me wrong. I've build about 25-30 systems in my life. (A friend owns a hosting operation. We doubled his server capacity one weekend) I just don't have the extra time to deal with what comes with it anymore. You are exchanging a lower price for a higher time commitment, and my time is worth more than the cost savings I get.

Also, when you build your own system, you are left to deal with individual component manufacturers when a part breaks, and often the warranty is less than that you would have gotten if you bought a whole machine. (IIRC HDD warranties are down to less than a year now, right?). It's much harder to get a new HDD out of someone like western digital than it is dell.

[radvas]

I don't have 20 years of experience, but I have put leopard on 6 different machines now, of varying age and configuration, and I have no complaints.

I do think, though, that the Macbook Pros (i.e. renamed Powerbooks) are overpriced. You won't find a macbook slow, and you won't miss scratching the aluminum on the Pro either. Of course, if you need a feature of the pro YMMV.

Wait until after macworld if you do decide to buy, though. Hardware may be upgraded, and there are strong rumors of a touch-based computer coming out soon (like a giant iPhone)

Just because you haven't experienced the problems doesn't mean they're not there. Leopard has it's share of issues. There have been a few times that I thought about reverting to tiger, but there are a few features in Leopard that I really like, so I keep it.

Still, even with all it's issues, I wouldn't trade it back for the work-issued PC. :barf

[mrspeebles]

I hate the fact that all new comps are loaded with vista. It's slow and way too overloaded with crap. It's like every time I buy a computer I have to format and reinstall everything because of the bundled crap they load on there and now, the operating system.

Is there anywhere to get a computer without all the bundles crap and vista?

I'm thinking of going powerbook. Pretty expensive but I assume the os is decent and no bundled crap like netzero, norton, etc?

You'll have to go with what the others are suggesting, if you want a clean version of xp or vista on your pc. I run an OEM version of XP in Parallels on my mac and it runs faster than ANY pc I've ever used (Toshibas, Panasonics, Dells, Vaios, HPs, laptops, desktops, servers, blah blah blah), because it comes installed with absolutely nothing!

Macs do come installed with software that you may not need and will definitely want to remove when you setup osx the first time (i.e garageband, comiclife, fonts, extra printer drivers, extra languages; these can suck up a good 1-3GB of hard drive space as well).

I would highly recommend at least going to an apple store and checking out the programs that come installed on Leopard and see if you like the way osx operates. Some people can't convert themselves over as easily/quickly as they'd like...

Good Luck!

[bigjohn69]

Buy a MAC....You will never look back at a PC

[Dopesick]

I hate the fact that all new comps are loaded with vista. It's slow and way too overloaded with crap. It's like every time I buy a computer I have to format and reinstall everything because of the bundled crap they load on there and now, the operating system.


I so have you beat dude... Pulled from a personal rant on my site, by me... Vista is as bad as a nightmare browser hijack.

Any software that must be "hacked" out of the box... Should be burned alive. What a miserable POS this software is.

I went over to a friends house this morning to do a simple task. Drop in a Belkin Wireless Router to their already existing network.

Normally you would think this wouldnt be an normally brain tasking thing to do... Well up until the adding the vista loaded laptop to it.. It wasn't. Even the fucking PS3 and Xbox configured faster. :wtf

So after an hour of fucking around with vista, I used an XP desktop in the house to go online. After about 10 minutes I ran across this....

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928233/en-us

What a fucking miserable POS vista is. Fuck You MicroSuck. :twofinger What a load of bullshit this is...
Windows Vista cannot obtain an IP address from certain routers or from certain non-Microsoft DHCP servers
I was wondering if infact where i was, why there were NO wireless devices. And then I thought to myself. Ya fucking right... This is SJ, and there's TONS of people here. There has to be atleast a half dozen.

So after doing microsofts little "registry hack" BAM 14 fucking wireless networks, including my target network came up. What a fucking basket case that is.