My co-workers keep moving folders...

[DucatiHoney]

I work in a small architecture of seven people. Five of us work on a drafting program here and I'm the I.T help--I know almost nothing about I.T. but I manage things, make sure that systems are the way that the partners like it, and tell our out-sourced I.T. dude what our issues are.

Twice now I've gotten panicked calls (I've been out of the office both times this has happened) from co-workers saying that the folder containing all of our drawings has gone "missing." Both times I've found the folder has been accidentally moved to an incorrect location. I restore it and life goes on. It's generally been some of the tenser 15 minutes of my life and I'd like to avoid it happening again.

So, do you guys know of a way in Windows to keep folks from moving folders but allowing access? I found something online about using the NTFS permissions to restrict users from deleting rights. This prevents them from moving folders. I also read that you can restrict their modify permissions.

This sounds a little out of my league as I would have to make sure that the "propagate these settings" is disabled, and changing rights back and forth can be tricky. (huh?) So before I get knee deep in it, I'd like to know if there's something simpler out there. If not, I'll experiment with this and make sure my I.T. guy is on hand to help out.

T.I.A.

[Dopesick]

I work in a small architecture of seven people. Five of us work on a drafting program here and I'm the I.T help--I know almost nothing about I.T. but I manage things, make sure that systems are the way that the partners like it, and tell our out-sourced I.T. dude what our issues are.

Twice now I've gotten panicked calls (I've been out of the office both times this has happened) from co-workers saying that the folder containing all of our drawings has gone "missing." Both times I've found the folder has been accidentally moved to an incorrect location. I restore it and life goes on. It's generally been some of the tenser 15 minutes of my life and I'd like to avoid it happening again.

So, do you guys know of a way in Windows to keep folks from moving folders but allowing access? I found something online about using the NTFS permissions to restrict users from deleting rights. This prevents them from moving folders. I also read that you can restrict their modify permissions.

This sounds a little out of my league as I would have to make sure that the "propagate these settings" is disabled, and changing rights back and forth can be tricky. (huh?) So before I get knee deep in it, I'd like to know if there's something simpler out there. If not, I'll experiment with this and make sure my I.T. guy is on hand to help out.

T.I.A.


Teach them to NAME their files correctly. Secondly teach them how to "use the fucking search". :thumbup

And definatly, make sure you have USERS, setup, and you use NTFS's permissions to lock shit down. :nerd

[insyder]

Hope that someone is performing regular backups in this file share.

[DucatiHoney]

Someone has a backup set up on the server twice a day for quick n dirty restores. She also has two external drives with the entire contents of the server on it backed up once daily. One of these drives goes off site every other week. So, yeah, it's a simple system compared to what you i.t. types are probably used to, but it does the job for us. The problem is that folks do this mysterious folder moving business and then they realize that their crap is missing and they freak out because they might have lost three hours worth of drawing. It's a small price to pay--I've seen people lose weeks' worth. :(

So to get back to my original question: restricting certain people's ability to use the delete or modify function on the folder in question seems reasonable? I don't want to create a bunch of pain-in-the-butt problems for daily use, but the folder moving has got to stop. I honestly don't know how they do it in the first place. When I try to recreate the problem it takes me a minimum of three deliberate keystrokes to make it happen. :wtf

[Aegon]

ACL = access control list

I'd search to see how Windows does ACLs.

[insyder]

I'd probably try and set up permissions at the top folder and remove the "delete" permission which is supposed to stop the ability to move because the last operation of a move is to delete. From there, make sure to apply permissions objects within the container(folder).

Just make sure your account retains full control so that you don't end up permissioning yourself out of control of the folders and files.

Make some test folders and files to test out the concepts before applying to the production folders.

[sburnhamh]

With some more details from you we should be able to give you more specific advice too.

Based on your description these are shared folders on some sort of sever or NAS (Network Attached Storage) device.

What type of server/NAS are you using?

What type of security are you using on the server/network?

How much work do you expect to put into administering the file system?

Have you done any reading/research into DMS (Document Management Systems)?

[Sane_Man]

Are you guys sharing PC's, or does everyone have their own and the folders are on a shared drive?

[DucatiHoney]

With some more details from you we should be able to give you more specific advice too.

Based on your description these are shared folders on some sort of sever or NAS (Network Attached Storage) device.

What type of server/NAS are you using?

What type of security are you using on the server/network?

How much work do you expect to put into administering the file system?

Have you done any reading/research into DMS (Document Management Systems)?

I can't really answer any of those questions...I just don't know enough about it. :(



Are you guys sharing PC's, or does everyone have their own and the folders are on a shared drive?

People work on their own PC's and we all save to a common drive.

[quasi888]

News item from today....highly apropos to your situation:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/01/24/pkg.disgruntled.employee.wtlv

[DucatiHoney]

:laughing

That was sooooo uncool of her. :p

[Dopesick]

People work on their own PC's and we all save to a common drive.

I would have people saving their work locally, and a backup of the local work done daily, to the common drive.

That would eliminate ALOT of issues, and if the other users are saving to a common networked drive, setting up permissions to it should be REALLY easy.

[sburnhamh]

To secure the folders we need to know where they exist on the physical network.

Do you have a computer in the office that is acting as a server? Even if it is one persons desktop machine that has to be on for everyone else to use the folders we can call it the 'server' for this discussoin.

If there isn't a server, then it seems like you might all be using shared folders on your desktops. It's may still be possible to secure the folders, but it's going to be a very different conversation about how to do it.

If you aren't sure which type of system you are using (and there could be weird alternate options, like some sort of offsite storage that you're all mapped to through a VPN...), but chances are the person who'll know is your outside IT person, so you'd need to call them in.

[Samurang]

and if the other users are saving to a common networked drive, setting up permissions to it should be REALLY easy.

+1

As others have mentioned, we need more info.

[Dopesick]

To secure the folders we need to know where they exist on the physical network.

Do you have a computer in the office that is acting as a server? Even if it is one persons desktop machine that has to be on for everyone else to use the folders we can call it the 'server' for this discussoin.

If there isn't a server, then it seems like you might all be using shared folders on your desktops. It's may still be possible to secure the folders, but it's going to be a very different conversation about how to do it.

If you aren't sure which type of system you are using (and there could be weird alternate options, like some sort of offsite storage that you're all mapped to through a VPN...), but chances are the person who'll know is your outside IT person, so you'd need to call them in.


I don't know if your thinking of everything being overly difficult or not. Even setting up local permissions on a user's PC, and setting the permissions of the folder on the remote "save to" would NOT be that difficult.

Provided All user accounts are not "admin" level locally. And even that is not all that difficult to correct.

[DucatiHoney]

I would have people saving their work locally, and a backup of the local work done daily, to the common drive.

That would eliminate ALOT of issues, and if the other users are saving to a common networked drive, setting up permissions to it should be REALLY easy.

The partners want everyone to save to the common drive always--no saving to each computer. The way that my office works, multiple users work on the same projects. Projects consist of a number of different files which reference one another. The system needs to be more dynamic than what I think you're describing.

To secure the folders we need to know where they exist on the physical network.

Do you have a computer in the office that is acting as a server? Even if it is one persons desktop machine that has to be on for everyone else to use the folders we can call it the 'server' for this discussoin.

If there isn't a server, then it seems like you might all be using shared folders on your desktops. It's may still be possible to secure the folders, but it's going to be a very different conversation about how to do it.

If you aren't sure which type of system you are using (and there could be weird alternate options, like some sort of offsite storage that you're all mapped to through a VPN...), but chances are the person who'll know is your outside IT person, so you'd need to call them in.

I'm not sure what kind of system we're using, but there's a large computer dealio in the back of the office. No one works on it. It's just the server. Everything we do saves to this thing and it backs up all the information on itself in two places--one on the server and another is external to the server. The external thing is one of two. We switch them back and forth every other week so if the office burned down, we'd still have at least our work from two weeks' prior. The issue isn't that I'm at a lack for back-up. The issue is that if I can keep people from moving stuff, then I wouldn't have to retrieve hours old information from the back-up. Does that make sense?

From all the responses here, it sounds like limiting the users' permissions to modify or delete information in the files could be a good way of solving my problem. Someone mentioned setting up a test folder prior to applying this to the working folders. I will definitely do that. I have a few other things that I need to tackle before I jump on this, but I might be posting up again soon.

Thanks all for your input and advice. :thumbup

[Sane_Man]

The partners want everyone to save to the common drive always--no saving to each computer. The way that my office works, multiple users work on the same projects. Projects consist of a number of different files which reference one another. The system needs to be more dynamic than what I think you're describing.



I'm not sure what kind of system we're using, but there's a large computer dealio in the back of the office. No one works on it. It's just the server. Everything we do saves to this thing and it backs up all the information on itself in two places--one on the server and another is external to the server. The external thing is one of two. We switch them back and forth every other week so if the office burned down, we'd still have at least our work from two weeks' prior. The issue isn't that I'm at a lack for back-up. The issue is that if I can keep people from moving stuff, then I wouldn't have to retrieve hours old information from the back-up. Does that make sense?

From all the responses here, it sounds like limiting the users' permissions to modify or delete information in the files could be a good way of solving my problem. Someone mentioned setting up a test folder prior to applying this to the working folders. I will definitely do that. I have a few other things that I need to tackle before I jump on this, but I might be posting up again soon.

Thanks all for your input and advice. :thumbup

What's confusing is how the folder you are describing how the folder gets moved.

It sounds like you are saying that everyone can see this folder on their computer where they save their documents. Then sometimes, someone moves that folder so everyone else in the office can no longer find it. It then sounds like your task is to either find the missing folder, but if you can't, you restore the folder from the external drive which backed up a copy of the folder.

I am assuming everyone has a mapped drive to the folder directory, like Drive N:. If you give the administrator ownership of that folder, and everyone else has normal User rights, that will solve the problem of someone moving the folder. If everyone has computer training, this would help also.

I've been to large companies where half the people have Admin rights. The employees took it as their seniority rights to have Administrative powers on the network. Crazy.

[Wrong Way]

My take on this is you are not going to solve it over the internet.

I say, go into work, go back to the computer that acts like a server and nobody is using, find out what OS is on it, then ask for somebody that knows how to work on that O.S. to come out and submit an evaluation. Maybe 4 hrs charge. You might even want to upgrade the server.

From there you can look at a long term solution that is in writing. If you have the chance of losing 3 hrs work one week and then 2 days work a couple months later, a couple thousand dollars invested in revamping your network should be justified.

Consider the fact that it is not just how long it took to create the drawings but how it disrupts your workflow. A good consultant should be able to make recomendations you never thought of and your boss could put implementation on a timetable that makes fiscal sense.

[insyder]

Best advice yet. Maybe looking at some collaboration or change control management software might help as well.

[DucatiHoney]

Yeah, I think you're right Wrong Way (and Insyder.) Posting up here has made me realize that it's not a matter of a few clicks. That might be a band-aid, but it's possibly a larger problem than what I thought it was. I'll consult my professional help. :)

[Samurang]

Wrong way is right. An internet forum is no place to obtain scalable solutions regarding your network, and infrastructure.

I realize you're only 7 people, but sounds like your infrastructure needs some serious help.

You might also want to think about some sort of SCM or source control, such as Perforce.
And no solid plan or procedure regarding backups.

What you need is to bring in a consultant. We could help you out but an internet forum is no place to talk about your network topography, infrastructure, etc.

[sburnhamh]

I'll second.. or third, or whatever, the above.

Even if we fixed the problem you are having now, there are other issues you would need to address down the road, and the current 'fix' probably wouldn't include options like DMS or SCM programs that could be powerful tools for your company.