License Plate and the Law

[reaLst]

I have an '04 GSXR 600 with a HotBodies Undertail Exhaust installed. I just got a fix it ticket for:

Rear Plate not Visible\Securely attatched

I have 30 days to get this fixed before I get hit with a fine. Any suggestions on a kit that would fit with the undertail exhaust?

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9997/img4968mw1.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4968mw1.jpg)

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4253/img4969kv1.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4969kv1.jpg)

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9065/img4970ib8.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4970ib8.jpg)

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1821/img4971rw0.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4971rw0.jpg)


At the suggestion of Burning1, I decided to repost my original post here to ask the Law professionals exactly what is the law!

In addition to what my ticket states as the violation, Burning1 mentioned the license plate light, turn signals, and lack of reflectors.

Anything else I am missing?

I should also note that my rear turn signals are working, though. Do they have to be in a different position?

[AceT100]

Sorry dude, I'm no cop, but I'D give you a ticket if I was....That plate can't be seen.

[beaker]

At the suggestion of Burning1, I decided to repost my original post here to ask the Law professionals exactly what is the law!

In addition to what my ticket states as the violation, Burning1 mentioned the license plate light, turn signals, and lack of reflectors.

Anything else I am missing?

I should also note that my rear turn signals are working, though. Do they have to be in a different position?

5201. License plates shall at all times be securely fastened to the vehicle for which they are issued so as to prevent the plates from swinging, shall be mounted in a position so as to be clearly visible, and shall be maintained in a condition so as to be clearly legible.

24601. Either the taillamp or a separate lamp shall be so constructed and placed as to illuminate with a white light the rear license plate during darkness and render it clearly legible from a distance of 50 feet to the rear.

[Junkie]

What's required on the back:
plate, clearly visible. must be illuminated by a white light so that it can be seen from a certain distance, I don't recall exactly how far - but it needs a light.
Signals must be DOT approved (as turn signals), and a reasonable distance apart. I've heard 9", not sure if that's in code anywhere.
You need 4 square inches of reflective red. One of those little buttons on each corner of your plate will do the trick. If you want to throw some red retroreflective tape on the bottom of the tail, that would also work.

In general, you can get away with not having DOT approved stuff as long as it's safe. I don't think your turn signals would be considered safe, though. The plate's a lot more likely to get you popped.

[reaLst]

In general, you can get away with not having DOT approved stuff as long as it's safe. I don't think your turn signals would be considered safe, though. The plate's a lot more likely to get you popped.

Forgive my stupidness, but exactly what makes one signal light DOT approved and one not?

I did get a fix-it ticket for the plate, as mentioned earlier. I want to get this all straightened out asap.

thanks for the help so far, people. -

[Rel]

Search function is your friend....... Plenty of threads have been started on this topic.

For example:
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189469&highlight=license+plates

[JPM]

For tail light assembly and turn signals: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26101.htm

Reflector: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc24607.htm

If you want to post more pics of the whole bike I'm sure I can find something else.:laughing

[reaLst]

Search function is your friend....... Plenty of threads have been started on this topic.

For example:
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189469&highlight=license+plates

Boo. I did search actually. I guess I didn't look hard enough. I'm usually pretty religious about search functions in message boards.

For tail light assembly and turn signals: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26101.htm

Reflector: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc24607.htm

If you want to post more pics of the whole bike I'm sure I can find something else.:laughing

Actually maybe you could take a look at :twofinger :teeth

[Junkie]

Forgive my stupidness, but exactly what makes one signal light DOT approved and one not?

I did get a fix-it ticket for the plate, as mentioned earlier. I want to get this all straightened out asap.

thanks for the help so far, people. -DOT approved lights say DOT on them :nerd

[JPM]

Boo. I did search actually. I guess I didn't look hard enough. I'm usually pretty religious about search functions in message boards.



Actually maybe you could take a look at :twofinger :teeth

And now I know what your bike looks like, you can take a look at a lot more of these! :p http://www.sfgov.org/site/courts_page.asp?id=3777

[}Dragon{]

Did you put the undertail on there?

[Junkie]

in his other thread he said he bought it like that

[GhostRider]

DOT approved lights say DOT on them :nerd

conversely, most (all) non DOT turnsignals say something like "Offroad use only" or "marker lights".

all those "LP" stuff it typically pretty clearly marked this way.

the reason is that DOT certification costs money, and aftermarket firms dont want to spend the money. (and customers go for the cheapest bling)

your best bet: get "stock" signals and mount them on a custom fabbed bracket.

[reaLst]

And now I know what your bike looks like, you can take a look at a lot more of these! :p http://www.sfgov.org/site/courts_page.asp?id=3777

Thanks but I already have one. Love your enthusiasm though :thumbup
Oh and keep looking at this :twofinger

conversely, most (all) non DOT turnsignals say something like "Offroad use only" or "marker lights".

all those "LP" stuff it typically pretty clearly marked this way.

the reason is that DOT certification costs money, and aftermarket firms dont want to spend the money. (and customers go for the cheapest bling)

your best bet: get "stock" signals and mount them on a custom fabbed bracket.

Gotcha. I gotta get working on this soon.

[Junkie]

conversely, most (all) non DOT turnsignals say something like "Offroad use only" or "marker lights".

all those "LP" stuff it typically pretty clearly marked this way.

the reason is that DOT certification costs money, and aftermarket firms dont want to spend the money. (and customers go for the cheapest bling)

your best bet: get "stock" signals and mount them on a custom fabbed bracket.the front turn signals that came on my bike don't have any markings on the lens, so I'm guessing you mean they say that on the box.

[GhostRider]

the front turn signals that came on my bike don't have any markings on the lens, so I'm guessing you mean they say that on the box.

no, the marking are typically molded/raised letters on the lens itself.

It wouldnt do muhc good if they were on the box.

99.999% your front turn signals are not stock, and not "official" DOT approved.


I dont try to be a DOT nazi here, but this is the LETTER of the law.
Myself, i have "non approved" ligths on my bikes, but i am also aware that IF a cop wants to screw with me - they can.

My goal is that my "modified" lights look as close to the stock as possible, so a cop wouldnt pull me over in the first place.

(btw: i challenge you that i can find at least ONE equipment violation on ANY bike older than 2 yrs at a BARF meet. Unless you just rolled it off the dealership floor, there is always something "wrong" with it.)

[afm199]

My SV650 has stock turn signals, exhaust, brake lights, etc. I want the damn thing to be AS VISIBLE as POSSIBLE. Aftermarket stuff is great for not giving car drivers a chance to see you signal with the tiny lights, thus improving your chances of becoming a statistic.

[GhostRider]

My SV650 has stock turn signals, exhaust, brake lights, etc. I want the damn thing to be AS VISIBLE as POSSIBLE. Aftermarket stuff is great for not giving car drivers a chance to see you signal with the tiny lights, thus improving your chances of becoming a statistic.

Not trying to hijack the thread completely, BUT: sometimes, aftermarket or "modifications" can be more visible and safer than stock.

For Example: On my ZX-9R, i installed a undertail, and built a custom license plate braket. the bracket puts the signals slightly closer together, but re-uses the stock signal stalks.
(which is still legal)

in addition i installed red LED's in the stock signals to illuminate the turnsignals at night.
(which is techncally "legal" in the spirit of the law because it's "red lights" to the back, but also illegal by the letter of the law because i "voided" the DOT compliant stock signals)

For myself - i feel MORE safe, because i increased the visibility from behind (3 lights instead of one), the lights and turn signals are all converted to LED (== no more burnt out bulbs!).

This improvement in "safety" is worth the very, very, very unlikely case that a leo recognizes the modification and wants to screw me.

[Junkie]

no, the marking are typically molded/raised letters on the lens itself.

It wouldnt do muhc good if they were on the box.

99.999% your front turn signals are not stock, and not "official" DOT approved.


I dont try to be a DOT nazi here, but this is the LETTER of the law.
Myself, i have "non approved" ligths on my bikes, but i am also aware that IF a cop wants to screw with me - they can.

My goal is that my "modified" lights look as close to the stock as possible, so a cop wouldnt pull me over in the first place.

(btw: i challenge you that i can find at least ONE equipment violation on ANY bike older than 2 yrs at a BARF meet. Unless you just rolled it off the dealership floor, there is always something "wrong" with it.)I know 100% that they aren't stock... I meant about the off-highway use only part, I should've said that.

[ctroutnerrun]

If your looking for another place to put your plate, check out the 2nd post here (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234022&highlight=streetfighter), seems like Moike found an alternative solution :thumbup. As far as reflectors, you can get them at most places, like CG (http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=&L2=&L3=&L4=&item=MRX_3DROS_G&tier2=14). Do not know much about turn signals, but am wondering if that is one of the turn signals above the exhaust in the pic...Moike might be a good person to contact...good luck :ride

[Junkie]

His plate location almost certainly isn't lit by a white light.

[CykoKlr]

What plate?????

[DachWuff]

Easy fix.

You make yourself a bracket from,
http://images.orgill.com/200x200/4147724.jpg
It's easy and simple to work with I'm sure you could figure it out in an hour, then light it with one of these
http://www.autobarndeals.com/catalog/syldotit.jpg
And you are good to go.

Happy riding.

[JPM]

........

(btw: i challenge you that i can find at least ONE equipment violation on ANY bike older than 2 yrs at a BARF meet. Unless you just rolled it off the dealership floor, there is always something "wrong" with it.)

Mine is 23 years old, V65 Sabre, and I bet you will not find one equipment violation on it. :shocker Or on my KLR, or BMW either. :p
Damn I'm boring. :laughing

[mikhail]

The only plate I've ever seen that was worse than this was one that was mounted WAY in on the undertail...it was also hanging so low that it looked like on deep suspension travel, the rear tire was smashing the plate up into the tail. It was all curved in the middle and had rubber marks on it...haha.

[FoolishMortal]

Easy fix.

You make yourself a bracket from,
http://images.orgill.com/200x200/4147724.jpg
It's easy and simple to work with I'm sure you could figure it out in an hour, then light it with one of these
http://www.autobarndeals.com/catalog/syldotit.jpg
And you are good to go.

Happy riding.

Yikes. You'll go through a lot of batteries with that light - unless you don't ride much.

If you don't want to do the work, get this bracket (http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=&L2=&L3=&L4=&item=MRX_NPBK&tier2=14) and wire up a single white LED light (from Radio Shack). You can add some (legal) turn signals and turn the undertail "signals" into running lights, which could actually be kind of cool.

[Junkie]

The only plate I've ever seen that was worse than this was one that was mounted WAY in on the undertail...it was also hanging so low that it looked like on deep suspension travel, the rear tire was smashing the plate up into the tail. It was all curved in the middle and had rubber marks on it...haha.I've seen a few that have rollers on the bottom that are for the hugger.

[reaLst]

Ok, so it looks like the undertail exhaust, and the undertail signals are all from Hotbodies Racing. I contacted them about any sort of license plate bracket, and they told me they will send one for free if I send them a picture of the bike.

Still a little unsure about how I will go about these turn-signals, or if I will modify them at all.

[beaker]

Ok, so it looks like the undertail exhaust, and the undertail signals are all from Hotbodies Racing. I contacted them about any sort of license plate bracket, and they told me they will send one for free if I send them a picture of the bike.

Still a little unsure about how I will go about these turn-signals, or if I will modify them at all.

Just remember to tread lightly. You could be cited in the future for VC 24004 which is not a fix-it, a point on your record, and possibly be subjected to impound.

[reaLst]

Just remember to tread lightly. You could be cited in the future for VC 24004 which is not a fix-it, a point on your record, and possibly be subjected to impound.


The ticket only mentions "rear plate not visible/plate not securly attatched"

So if I do fix the plate, wouldnt 24004 not apply to me?

[CollegeCop]

You could buy a sidemount bracket.

http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Lightning_Performance_Swingarm_Mount_License_Plate _Brackets_Suzuki_GSXR600--505759.html

Could not find anything in the Vehicle Code that requires the plate be mounted horizontally but keep in mind the plate must be over 12" from the ground and properly lit.

[Junkie]

You could buy a sidemount bracket.

http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Lightning_Performance_Swingarm_Mount_License_Plate _Brackets_Suzuki_GSXR600--505759.html

Could not find anything in the Vehicle Code that requires the plate be mounted horizontally but keep in mind the plate must be over 12" from the ground and properly lit.LEOs here have said that they don't consider it to be clearly legible (or whatever the code specifies) when sideways. Down there I agree with that. My dad has put >200k on bikes with sideways plates on the back (ie in the normal location, on the back of the fender) without any issues related to them, but that doesn't mean no LEOs will ticket for it.

[JPM]

You could buy a sidemount bracket.

http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Lightning_Performance_Swingarm_Mount_License_Plate _Brackets_Suzuki_GSXR600--505759.html

Could not find anything in the Vehicle Code that requires the plate be mounted horizontally but keep in mind the plate must be over 12" from the ground and properly lit.

Tell me this is clearly legible and you would like to view the forums like this. :wtf

[ekimona636]

Cycle Gear.....Mottrax Universal License Plate Bracket.

Recess it right behind your flush mount under tail blinkers.

19.99

Or make (2) "L" brackets call it done.

I've had the same ticket(s) plural....it's nice to know mutiple LEOs.

Have one (if you know one) sign it off.....your done.

[reaLst]

Cycle Gear.....Mottrax Universal License Plate Bracket.

Recess it right behind your flush mount under tail blinkers.

19.99

Or make (2) "L" brackets call it done.

I've had the same ticket(s) plural....it's nice to know mutiple LEOs.

Have one (if you know one) sign it off.....your done.

Maybe my one and only officer friend was bullshitting me, but he said it's much harder to have an officer just sign of a ticket now...

Anyways, I got it fixed and signed off. Hotbodies sent me their license plate bracket (2 L shaped brackets) for free, after I told them my situation. I also had extra blinkers installed by Shawn. I now have 8 blinkers total - 4 in the front and 4 in the rear.