Leo arrests fireman

[n10sive]

Video: Cop arrests fireman (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=233_1203031330)

What are the LEO's perspective on this?

Having been in the right seat of a firetruck, I am always concerned for the safety of my crew. While this has not happened to me personally (to this level), I have a fellow captain who was handcuffed and placed into a cruiser by a Highway Patrolette. While I understand the needs of officers to keep a highway open, why can't they understand that as long as we have our head buried in screaming bodies and carnage we want our firetruck protecting our backsides? It is always standard procedure for us to use the trucks for protection. Cones and flares don't mean anything to inattentive drivers. So why do some get so anal over this? I know plenty of cool officers that leave us be, but there are those who have yelled at us and threatened us over this type of thing. Is it really that big a deal?

I personally have always ordered my truck out of the travel lane once we had patients extracted and packaged. Until then, I feel I need to do what I need to do to protect the scene.

In this video case, I think I would have conceded scene safety to the patrol car and first on scene ambulance already protecting the scene and I personally would have pulled forward of the wreck and out of the way. But I don't think I agree that any EMT should be arrested prior to patient care.

TIA

[}Dragon{]

Holy shit. :wtf

Sorry- it's an emergency vehicle. It has pretty red and amber lights and when they are on- I can park it anywhere I want to ensure my crew's safety. If the Officer had an issue with it- there is this new thing called chain of command. The Officer or his supervisor should have brought the incident afterwords with the BC or higher. Completely inappropriate on scene. :( We are supposed to be on the same team.

We did have a NHP Trooper (only one on scene) who gave us a hard time. We did clear the highway and it was our policy to stay available on scene until the tow truck cleared. While two of my guys were doing traffic control made some wise ass comment and I told everyone- "wrap it up- let's go". He says to me- you guys can't leave... I said sorry it's just a traffic issue now- need help? Call more troopers... :|

[JPM]

Dude, I ride a bike. When I roll up on a crash I find a fire truck to park in front of! :thumbup

Some agencies have the mentality to get the road open as fast as possible. Luckily my agency feels that you do what you need to for safety and investigations reason. If traffic backs up and people get pissed, oh well. As part of the accident reconstruction team we have closed down major streets, intersections, and even highways for hours to investigate. We have never had a problem with any other agencies in my area (Lucky for us we have a good relationship with all agencies in my area).

[n10sive]

Dude, I ride a bike. When I roll up one a crash I find a fire truck to park in front of! :thumbup


:rofl:rofl:rofl


I forgot to mention...I think the 'John Wayne' that guy pulls getting out of the truck sux....along with the fact he is the only one NOT in protective gear. Must have thought he was Joe Cool. I think the appropriate thing to do would have been let him do his thing then bury a size 12 in his ass for being el-stupido. :) Maybe that irritated the cop so bad he couldn't wait :teeth

[}Dragon{]

:rofl:rofl:rofl


I forgot to mention...I think the 'John Wayne' that guy pulls getting out of the truck sux....along with the fact he is the only one NOT in protective gear. Must have thought he was Joe Cool. I think the appropriate thing to do would have been let him do his thing then bury a size 12 in his ass for being el-stupido. :) Maybe that irritated the cop so bad he couldn't wait :teeth


B shift. :| :rofl

[motorman4life]

I have gotten in my share of pissing contests with firemen and outside agencies. It seems like both had too much ego to be on the same scene together!

It seems odd to me that a police officer would be primary on what appears to be a freeway scene.

In this case (and all freeway calls), I would tend to error on the side of safety and while it is annoying when fire rolls up and blocks 2 (or 3) lanes when they only need to block 1. In this case, they could have easily parked behind the cruiser or moved the rig to where the officer had asked. But again, if they felt they needed the added protection, then let the lane be closed! Fuckit!

Anyhow, I think the situation could have been handled better by all involved. The officer took things too far and the lost the suit as a result.

PS. I agree on the John Wayne comment. He came rolling in like he was Hasslehoff on Baywatch!

[thumbus2003]

5/12/2003

[niwrad_r1]

i was reading this at my phone before i saw the video now, it a f&#kn BS for the cop to arrest the FC for blocking the lane. If he didn't block it, what he's gonna open the lane so stupid rubber neckers can add on to the accident? what a stupid cop!

[scalvert]

Ugh, I hate interagency stuff and I'm just a civilian. Back when I lived in <redacted> the local PD and State Highway officers REALLY REALLY didn't like each other. My buddy was doing FTO with the local PD and was under strict orders to consider ANY contact with the State Highway officers to warrant a call for emergency backup. Senior officers would run code three to any contact between local PD and State Highway guys. F'ing ridiculous.

But not as bad as one I witnessed while working in a uniformed civilian role that was sort of a hybrid between conflict resolution and emergency first responder while at a large multi-day event on Federal land. A certain Federal agency was doing searches of civilian tents for drugs w/o probable cause. When confronted by the county Sheriff on the subject the Feds cooked up weird line combining the notion that there was no reasonable expectation of privacy in a tent pitched on Federal land and that material in a bag inside a closed tent was "in plain sight". Off the local Sheriff went to the appropriate court which issued an injunction targeting the Feds to stop the patently illegal searches. The event commander for the Feds was served with the injunction and ignored it. The local Sheriff sent his deputies into the event and kept the Feds under surveillance. When the Feds started tossing tents the local guys rolled up and informed the Feds of their intention to place them under arrest for contempt of court. I'd been tailing the whole mess myself intending to be a witness for any civilians caught in the ensuing mess. Fortunately no civilians were around, because the dispute resulted in guns clearing leather, me hightailing it out of there, and ANOTHER Fed agency coming in to defuse the situation. While I support the local Sheriff for taking a stand on the issue, I REALLY don't like that they pushed it to such extremes. It's heartbreaking to watch officers nearly end up in a cop vs cop firefight.

[Lucky]

You know, I heard a rumor about an accident that occured on 237. Sunnyvale fire (who are also sunnyvale cops, as they do both) is working a wreck on the freeway and has a lane blocked off for obvious safety reasons. CHP tells the fire guy to move the engine, open up the lane. They end up getting into a pissing match and CHP ends up stating the to fire guy, "That's is, your under arrest."
To this, this sunnyvale fire/cop retorts, "No! You are under arrest." They then proceed to try and arrest each other until cooler heads prevail. I like to think it's a true story.

And I park my ambulance in front of the fire engine. There really is no, "Safe spot" per se on the side of a freeway, but, that is the area I try to stay in. Although I have gone on scenes before and cancelled fire. Pull in front of CHP who has a lane blocked and flares out, excellent! Only to turn around after cspining to see CHP has kicked away the flares and jammed and my bus is in a lane of traffic...suck!

[afm199]

Cop is a moron. They will run over your ass on the freeway.

[Rel]

No cop is going to ever win that fight..... Firefighters like to block the road, cops like the road open.

[}Dragon{]

My buddy was doing FTO with the local PD and was under strict orders to consider ANY contact with the State Highway officers to warrant a call for emergency backup. Senior officers would run code three to any contact between local PD and State Highway guys. F'ing ridiculous.

I've seen that movie before. :rofl

http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainment/movies/images/supertroop1.JPG

[JPM]

Ugh, I hate interagency stuff and I'm just a civilian. Back when I lived in <redacted> the local PD and State Highway officers REALLY REALLY didn't like each other. My buddy was doing FTO with the local PD and was under strict orders to consider ANY contact with the State Highway officers to warrant a call for emergency backup. Senior officers would run code three to any contact between local PD and State Highway guys. F'ing ridiculous.

But not as bad as one I witnessed while working in a uniformed civilian role that was sort of a hybrid between conflict resolution and emergency first responder while at a large multi-day event on Federal land. A certain Federal agency was doing searches of civilian tents for drugs w/o probable cause. When confronted by the county Sheriff on the subject the Feds cooked up weird line combining the notion that there was no reasonable expectation of privacy in a tent pitched on Federal land and that material in a bag inside a closed tent was "in plain sight". Off the local Sheriff went to the appropriate court which issued an injunction targeting the Feds to stop the patently illegal searches. The event commander for the Feds was served with the injunction and ignored it. The local Sheriff sent his deputies into the event and kept the Feds under surveillance. When the Feds started tossing tents the local guys rolled up and informed the Feds of their intention to place them under arrest for contempt of court. I'd been tailing the whole mess myself intending to be a witness for any civilians caught in the ensuing mess. Fortunately no civilians were around, because the dispute resulted in guns clearing leather, me hightailing it out of there, and ANOTHER Fed agency coming in to defuse the situation. While I support the local Sheriff for taking a stand on the issue, I REALLY don't like that they pushed it to such extremes. It's heartbreaking to watch officers nearly end up in a cop vs cop firefight.


Kind of stupid if you ask me. If the Feds are doing enforcement on Fed lands then why get involved? Stay away and if someone feels their rights were violated let them sue the feds and not you. The local Sheriff is not a victim nor an advocate.

We have a lot of state highways that run through where I work and we have jurisdiction from CHP for collisions that happen on them. I have closed state highways many times and never had a CHP Officer even balk at it. And if one tried to tell me to open the road I would politely give him the option, either take over the investigation and I’ll leave or it gets done my way. There is no need to argue or get into a confrontation.

[Jm3]

there are two people in this world that you don't want to piss off.

paramedics and the garbage man

(quoted from a belmont pd sgt.)

[}Dragon{]

Doing further research on the incident, I found out that the Officer asked the Fire Captain and the Engineer, to move the engine numerous times, because the spot was reserved for Tom Cruise. Everyone knows ONLY Tom Cruise could help at an accident scene. http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=4138621&page=1

No offense to the LEOs here, if this happened in California and if the Officer insisted on making an arrest:

148. (a) (1) Every person who willfully resists, delays, or
obstructs any public officer, peace officer, or an emergency medical
technician, as defined in Division 2.5 (commencing with Section 1797)
of the Health and Safety Code, in the discharge or attempt to
discharge any duty of his or her office or employment, when no other
punishment is prescribed, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding
one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail
not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment

[essvee]

Doing further research on the incident, I found out that the Officer asked the Fire Captain and the Engineer, to move the engine numerous times, because the spot was reserved for Tom Cruise. Everyone knows ONLY Tom Cruise could help at an accident scene. http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=4138621&page=1

LMAO

No offense to the LEOs here, if this happened in California and if the Officer insisted on making an arrest:

148. (a) (1) Every person who willfully resists, delays, or
obstructs any public officer, peace officer, or an emergency medical
technician, as defined in Division 2.5 (commencing with Section 1797)
of the Health and Safety Code, in the discharge or attempt to
discharge any duty of his or her office or employment, when no other
punishment is prescribed, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding
one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail
not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment

Who are you saying should be charged with that? When I first saw the vid I was thinking the LEO could be charged as such for preventing the FD from doing their job.

[}Dragon{]

LMAO



Who are you saying should be charged with that? When I first saw the vid I was thinking the LEO could be charged as such for preventing the FD from doing their job.


If it happened in CA:The cop (NV has a similar law in the NRS). It interfered with patient care and scene safety.

If I was the LEO and I wanted to be a prick, I'd cite the Captain (Ricky Rescue riding on the engine w/o a seat belt while in motion, not to mention the OSHA violation) but I'd do it after the scene was clear, otherwise I would be interfering with the FD doing their job.

Besides, the Engineer/Driver ignored the Officer's order- why wasn't he dragged outta the cab?

Also (IIRC), for those familiar with ICS, at a motor vehicle collision w/ injuries, The Incident Commander would be Fire or EMS, if you are following federal guidelines for inter-agency emergency operations.:nerd

[Nick]

IL1TI90AOkQ

[cardinal03]

wow there are a lot of disturbing links on that page

[stunna]

You know, I heard a rumor about an accident that occured on 237. Sunnyvale fire (who are also sunnyvale cops, as they do both) is working a wreck on the freeway and has a lane blocked off for obvious safety reasons. CHP tells the fire guy to move the engine, open up the lane. They end up getting into a pissing match and CHP ends up stating the to fire guy, "That's is, your under arrest."
To this, this sunnyvale fire/cop retorts, "No! You are under arrest." They then proceed to try and arrest each other until cooler heads prevail. I like to think it's a true story.

And I park my ambulance in front of the fire engine. There really is no, "Safe spot" per se on the side of a freeway, but, that is the area I try to stay in. Although I have gone on scenes before and cancelled fire. Pull in front of CHP who has a lane blocked and flares out, excellent! Only to turn around after cspining to see CHP has kicked away the flares and jammed and my bus is in a lane of traffic...suck!

:laughing I can only imagine the look on the CHP officer in this story...

[ateamer]

Was that the rube who just lost a $17,500 jury award to the fire captain? The jury was right on. Who gives a damn if fire is taking a long time? When I am at any kind of scene (granted, I don't go to many collisions, but I do wind up at a few), collision or otherwise, I love it when fire shows up. That big red fire engine does a much better job of preventing the people on scene from being hit by some lop than a patrol car and a cop waving a flashlight.

[mbsv]

Kind of stupid if you ask me. If the Feds are doing enforcement on Fed lands then why get involved? Stay away and if someone feels their rights were violated let them sue the feds and not you. The local Sheriff is not a victim nor an advocate.


Sounds to me like the sheriff was upholding the constitution and decided to use extreme measures like getting a judge's order to make sure they were right. I know lots of LEOs here prefer the 'book em all and let it get sorted out later' system, but I guess that's not universal.

(And yeah, it does seem like a bit of extreme intra-agency fighting... but at least if the story above is true it's pretty clear which one is 'right' to me.)