Seller did not give me the Title. What should I do?

[hppeng]

Hi, I'm new in the forum. I think my question can be best answered here in LEO.

Got my bike last month but I have issue with the title. The seller was busy at that time. He gave me the bill of sale and let me take away the bike. I paid him in full and honestly trusting that he will mail me the title later becaus he still has loans in the bike.

For one month he has been avoiding my contact, not returning my call, nor email. I'm now holding a bike without title and the registration is about due.

What should I do? Should I go to civil court for settlement? Or is there any better way for this? I have his address and current registration paper of the bike. Any idea will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

HP

[afm199]

Well, you should remember next time you buy a bike to get a clear title in hand.

You have the bill of sale. You can pursue him in court, but I imagine getting a title is what you want. Unless he paid off the loans in full and got signatures, you are pretty fucked in getting a title.

[USARMworker]

You and a few of your buddies should go get the title from the guy. NOW.

..

[92507gsx-r750]

You and a few of your buddies should go get the title from the guy. NOW.

..

+1

[afm199]

Unless the title has the signature of the lienholders it aint worth shit.

[jorbar1551]

just go to the dmv and fill out a lost title form. All i needed was the registration, and i got the pink slip within a week or 2


but you could've gotten fucked on this deal

[supertireguy]

Sounds like the bank or some other finance company owns the bike and not the seller. Did you get a copy of the current registration? Is there a Lienholder listed on it?

If you're lucky the seller is taking your hard earned money to the bank or finance company to pay off the bike and get the title to you.

If you're unlucky the seller is using your hard earned money to buy hookers and blow and you'll never hear from him again.

I have some beach front property in Malibu. If you give me your hard earned cash I'll write you a post-it note that says you bought it.

Moral of the story, don't hand over your cash to someone you don't know and who can't prove they actually own the property they are trying to sell. At this stage you might be in possession of stolen property.

[hppeng]

just go to the dmv and fill out a lost title form. All i needed was the registration, and i got the pink slip within a week or 2


but you could've gotten fucked on this deal

The bike has a lien holder on it. How can I file "lost of title"?

[jorbar1551]

Who is the lien? is it a bank? dealer? If you can find out, go talk to them to see if it was signed off or not.

If not, call the cops, this would probably fall under fraud

[hppeng]

Sounds like the bank or some other finance company owns the bike and not the seller. Did you get a copy of the current registration? Is there a Lienholder listed on it?

Yes I got a copy of current registration. There's a lien holder on the bike.

[jorbar1551]

fill this out

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg227.pdf

[hppeng]

Who is the lien? is it a bank? dealer? If you can find out, go talk to them to see if it was signed off or not.

If not, call the cops, this would probably fall under fraud

I'm not sure if the lien is the bank or the dealer. I need to find out. It is listed in the copy of the registration.

Should I call the cop or just go to civil court?

[jorbar1551]

There's a lien holder on the bike.

who is the lien holder?

[hppeng]

who is the lien holder?

I need to go home and look it up in the registration paper.

[silversvs]

If you dealt with an honest seller, he may have already paid off the bike with whatever financial institution held the title. If that is the case, I would not be suprised that it would take a month or more for that institution to process the paperwork and notify DMV that they have released their interest in the bike, and then for DMV to send the seller a clean title. The seller will then sign that title over to you.

If you are dealing with a less than honest seller, you may be in for a large headache. If the seller did not pay off the bike and simply pocketed the cash, you have possession of a bike that the title holder (financial institution) still has a significant interest in.

I would go to the DMV and try to transfer the bike into your name with the bill of sale. They will be able to tell you if their is a lein holder/legal owner on the title. If there is, they will make you get a release from that institution, if there is not they should provide you with a clean title in your name.

Hopefully this is a learning opportunity for you and other forum readers. If you are buying a vehicle where someone other than the seller has a financial interest in the vehicle, it is best to meet the seller at that financial institution and make payment to that leinholder/legal owner and not the seller. That way you know the leinholder/legal owner is getting their funds and will release their interest in the vehilce to you. I have done this several times when buying/selling a vehicle without a clear title. Its no big deal, but well worth doing it the right way to avoid landing in the precarious position the OP has found himself in.

As for taking some friends (ie BARF Militia) with you to meet the seller, I would highly discourage that.

[jorbar1551]

i would talk to your local pd first, civil courts would take a long time

[silversvs]

Who is the lien? is it a bank? dealer? If you can find out, go talk to them to see if it was signed off or not.

If not, call the cops, this would probably fall under fraud

Civil issue, not a criminal act.

[jorbar1551]

As for taking some friends (ie BARF Militia) with you to meet the seller, I would highly discourage that.

That sounds good on the internet, but in real life it could get you in a whole lot of trouble.

question for the cops...what would you(barf member) do if you recognized some of the barf militia out on a "hit"

[hppeng]

[QUOTE=silversvs;3739204]

I would go to the DMV and try to transfer the bike into your name with the bill of sale. They will be able to tell you if their is a lein holder/legal owner on the title. If there is, they will make you get a release from that institution, if there is not they should provide you with a clean title in your name.

QUOTE]

Thanks a lot. So I just show up in DMV with Bill of sale, the officiers there will help me? Or what specific questions should I ask the staff there?

[}Dragon{]

That sounds good on the internet, but in real life it could get you in a whole lot of trouble.

question for the cops...what would you(barf member) do if you recognized some of the barf militia out on a "hit"

:wtf Huh?

BTW- It's civil not criminal. x 2

[saizai]

FWIW you should be able to get the DMV to give you contact info of the lienholder.

You might have success in contacting them, showing them the bill of sale, and asking that they sign off on it and take their remaining balance with the person to collections.

[JPM]

FWIW you should be able to get the DMV to give you contact info of the lienholder.

You might have success in contacting them, showing them the bill of sale, and asking that they sign off on it and take their remaining balance with the person to collections.

That’s not gonna happen. Their stake is the bike and they have lawful ownership of it. They can come take the bike back at any time if payments are not made (repossession). The person who got the loan has no right to sell it and if they attempt to, the bank (or whoever holds the loan) has no responsibility to anything you paid to said looser,er, seller.

Now if you explain what happened to the lien holder and make a reasonable offer less that what is still owed, they might take the offer.

[SickR6]

That’s not gonna happen. Their stake is the bike and they have lawful ownership of it. They can come take the bike back at any time if payments are not made (repossession). The person who got the loan has no right to sell it and if they attempt to, the bank (or whoever holds the loan) has no responsibility to anything you paid to said looser,er, seller.

Now if you explain what happened to the lien holder and make a reasonable offer less that what is still owed, they might take the offer.

Don't do that you will be paying possibly double for the bike

[willbeezy]

are you sure it was his bike to sell?

[hppeng]

are you sure it was his bike to sell?

The registration card has his name on it. He also showed me the payment coupons on the bike. I'm pretty sure it is his bike.

I called the dealer that originally sold the bike to the seller. The dealer gave me the information of the line holder. I'll have to call the lien holder to see if the balance is paid or not.

What a screw-up experience.

HP

[hppeng]

So should I go to civil court if I cannot resolve the issue with the seller? He is avoiding any contact with me.

HP

[jorbar1551]

What a screw-up experience.

HP

it happens to the best of us. Go to the dmv and fill out that form that i sent. if that doesnt work, bring him to small claims court

[jorbar1551]

or just sell the bike and make it someone else's problem

[hppeng]

I'll have to call the lien holder to see if the balance is paid or not.


HP

The lien holder said they cannot provide any privacy information unless there's an order from the order from the court to say so.

I'll have to go to DMV trying to do the transfer of title with the bill of sale. If this does not work, I'll go to civil court.

So screw up.

HP

[jorbar1551]

The lien holder said they cannot provide any privacy information unless there's an order from the order from the court to say so.

I'll have to go to DMV trying to do the transfer of title with the bill of sale. If this does not work, I'll go to civil court.

So screw up.

HP
that sucks dude. have you tried showing up to the guys house with a friend? Not to start violence or something, but bring a friend or a lawyer to back you up. You bought a bmw so you've got to have some money

[Alan_Hepburn]

Hopefully this is a learning opportunity for you and other forum readers. If you are buying a vehicle where someone other than the seller has a financial interest in the vehicle, it is best to meet the seller at that financial institution and make payment to that leinholder/legal owner and not the seller.

Good advice - when I bought my Burgman a few years back, it was the same situation. The owner still had a substantial loan balance - in fact he owed $50 more than he was asking for the bike. I have no idea why he didn't just ask for the total loan amount, but that's beside the point.

I went to my credit union and got a cashier's check made out to the lien-holder (his credit union) for the amount we agreed on. The check had a notation on it that it was for the purpose of paying off loan #xxxxxx. Since the check was payable to the credit union against a specific loan it would be hard for him to run off with the money. He gave me the bike and all the paperwork (bill of sale, copy of the release of liability, etc.) and said he'd get to his credit union on Monday to pay off the loan. I went to the local DMV on that Monday with all my paperwork and got the bike transferred into my name - they said they would not process the pink slip until they received the original from the previous lien-holder, but at least the name on the registration would be mine at least.

I think that's the safest way to do it ...

[hppeng]

Update:

I went to DMV this morning. Here's what I have when I talk with the DMV staff:

Me: I have a screw-up situation.
Staff: What's up?

Me: I bought a bike and the seller disappeared, failing to give me the title.
Staff: Hmm.

Me: I have the bill of sale. The bike has a lien holder on it when I bought it. I want to know if the lien holder has released its interest on the bike.
Staff: Let me see.... (she is looking at the computer).... The lien holder does not release the interest.

Staff: What you can do is fill up the Reg 227 form(http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg227.pdf duplicate of title), and reg_166 form (http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg166.pdf Lien satisfied title release form), send him these forms with CERTIFIED MAIL, ask him to sign his portion and have the lien holder sign the portion. Then notarize the Reg 166. Come back when you have these things done.

Me: What if he does not respond, or simply just ignore me.
Staff: You'll have to go to the court.

Me: Thanks a lot.
Staff: Any time.

So I sent him the document this morning. I'll prepare myself for the court. Anyone here knows any lawyer that I can consult with?

Thank you for all the advices. I'm feeling much better and I believe things will turn around quick.

HP

[jorbar1551]

Update:

I went to DMV this morning. Here's what I have when I talk with the DMV staff:

Me: I have a screw-up situation.
Staff: What's up?

Me: I bought a bike and the seller disappeared, failing to give me the title.
Staff: Hmm.

Me: I have the bill of sale. The bike has a lien holder on it when I bought it. I want to know if the lien holder has released its interest on the bike.
Staff: Let me see.... (she is looking at the computer).... The lien holder does not release the interest.

Staff: What you can do is fill up the Reg 227 form(http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg227.pdf duplicate of title), and reg_166 form (http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg166.pdf Lien satisfied title release form), send him these forms with CERTIFIED MAIL, ask him to sign his portion and have the lien holder sign the portion. Then notarize the Reg 166. Come back when you have these things done.

Me: What if he does not respond, or simply just ignore me.
Staff: You'll have to go to the court.

Me: Thanks a lot.
Staff: Any time.

So I sent him the document this morning. I'll prepare myself for the court. Anyone here knows any lawyer that I can consult with?

Thank you for all the advices. I'm feeling much better and I believe things will turn around quick.

HP


that sucks.

[DESMOnic]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Getting a lawyer means more $$$ out of your pocket. Depending on the amount of money paid for the bike, you may have to chalk this one up.

[USARMworker]

Track bike! :teeth

..

[Psychochik]

Update:

I went to DMV this morning. Here's what I have when I talk with the DMV staff:

Me: I have a screw-up situation.
Staff: What's up?

Me: I bought a bike and the seller disappeared, failing to give me the title.
Staff: Hmm.

Me: I have the bill of sale. The bike has a lien holder on it when I bought it. I want to know if the lien holder has released its interest on the bike.
Staff: Let me see.... (she is looking at the computer).... The lien holder does not release the interest.

Staff: What you can do is fill up the Reg 227 form(http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg227.pdf duplicate of title), and reg_166 form (http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg166.pdf Lien satisfied title release form), send him these forms with CERTIFIED MAIL, ask him to sign his portion and have the lien holder sign the portion. Then notarize the Reg 166. Come back when you have these things done.

Me: What if he does not respond, or simply just ignore me.
Staff: You'll have to go to the court.

Me: Thanks a lot.
Staff: Any time.

So I sent him the document this morning. I'll prepare myself for the court. Anyone here knows any lawyer that I can consult with?

Thank you for all the advices. I'm feeling much better and I believe things will turn around quick.

HP

PM Summitdog, he's BARF's resident lawyer. I'm sure he can give you some sound advice.

Sorry to hear about your situation, thats truly a sucky one. Best of luck to you !! :thumbup

[hppeng]

PM Summitdog, he's BARF's resident lawyer. I'm sure he can give you some sound advice.



Will do.

Thanks a lot.

[Bikeless]

Did you get a receipt showing that you actually paid the guy for the bike?

He could have taken the money, waited a short time, made a call to the local PD and right now you could have a bike in your possession that is currently on a stolen bike list with the local PD:rolleyes

Hopefully this is not the case!

[supertireguy]

Update:

So I sent him the document this morning.



+1 for finally getting your butt over to the DMV.

The chances of the seller suddenly be responsive to your inquiries and demands now is slim to none. Any help from the seller, if he even responds at all, is a lost cause.

Going forward you should be dealing with the lienholder. They own the bike and only they can actually sell it to you.

[Bikeless]

+1 for finally getting your butt over to the DMV.

The chances of the seller suddenly be responsive to your inquiries and demands now is slim to none. Any help from the seller, if he even responds at all, is a lost cause.

Going forward you should be dealing with the lienholder. They own the bike and only they can actually sell it to you.

Only if he can actually produce proof that he paid the guy for the bike, right? If this transaction was done in cash, then it will be difficult to prove that he should even have the bike...

[supertireguy]

Only if he can actually produce proof that he paid the guy for the bike, right? If this transaction was done in cash, then it will be difficult to prove that he should even have the bike...

The buyer could have given the seller $1,000,000 dollars for the bike but it don't mean squat until the lien holder gets their money.

[hppeng]

Only if he can actually produce proof that he paid the guy for the bike, right? If this transaction was done in cash, then it will be difficult to prove that he should even have the bike...


I have bill of sale and the reciepts from the bank when I transfer him the money (full amount). Lucky I did not do it with cash.

I'll set up a meeting with Scotty (lawyer) to see what I need to do.

HP

[Bikeless]

The buyer could have given the seller $1,000,000 dollars for the bike but it don't mean squat until the lien holder gets their money.

This is true.....

[hppeng]

Scotty, my attorney, helped me to write a "demand letter" to the seller. Hopefully this will end soon.

[B-Cuz]

Scotty, my attorney, helped me to write a "demand letter" to the seller. Hopefully this will end soon.

GJ on not just sitting around, action gets results! :thumbup

[jorbar1551]

any updates?

pm sent