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View Full Version : Feet down at stop sign?

=+=
02-23-2008, 05:36 PM
Hello,

I'm sure this topic has come up before, but no real info could be found when I tried the search.

I was pulled over one night a few weeks ago for allegedly running a stop sign. The officers took my key (!) and started reprimanding me, saying "it says in The Book that you gotta put both feet down at a stop sign. Didn't you know that?"

Both feet down? What about my rear brake? I thought that the only criterion for stopping at a stop sign was to come to a complete stop. I usually just put my left foot down. As far as I know, if you can remain balanced, you don't have to put any feet down, as long as you've come to a complete stop.

Can anyone tell me where in the vehicle code it says anything about putting TWO feet down? If I am in fact correct, does anyone have any ideas on how I might be able to go about desputing the ticket, i.e. how can I prove that I had one foot down, or that I had in fact come to a complete stop, or somehow discredit the cop for not understanding the law?

Jay
Junkie
02-23-2008, 05:51 PM
The vehicle code says you must come to a stop. It doesn't say anything about putting both feet down. You're correct, it's legal to just balance there if you can.
Mortifer
02-23-2008, 05:52 PM
moved to LEO section where you'll get better info.

Good luck with the ticket, I look forward to reading some LEO responses as well.:)
kyles here
02-23-2008, 05:55 PM
go to court and fight it. dont jsut go though, if anything bring the code for complete stops where it doesnt say anything about putting both feet down.
silversvs
02-23-2008, 05:55 PM
Asked and answered a few dozen times.

Search is your friend.

No you do not have to put your foot down. You must come to a complete stop.
silversvs
02-23-2008, 05:56 PM
go to court and fight it. dont jsut go though, if anything bring the code for complete stops where it doesnt say anything about putting both feet down.

Bring a short video clip of you riding the bike and coming to a complete stop with feet up and holding it for a few seconds. That would be cool! :thumbup
Junkie
02-23-2008, 05:58 PM
Bring a short video clip of you riding the bike and coming to a complete stop with feet up and holding it for a few seconds. That would be cool! :thumbupWell, it sounds to me like he had one foot down - which is certainly easy to do.


I've been told that Hollister has a local ordinance that requires both feet down, it's possible that other cities do too. The advice in this thread is all based on the assumption that you received a vehicle code ticket.
=+=
02-23-2008, 06:02 PM
OK, so I searched the LEO forum (I had only looked in general before) and found that that consensus seems to be that feet down don't matter. So I was wondering what people think I should say to fight this? How could I prove that I had one foot down?
Junkie
02-23-2008, 06:07 PM
It's pretty much impossible to prove that you had a foot down. Did the LEO who ticketed you think you had one foot down but needed two, or think you didn't stop at all or something? Of course, you can put your feet down without stopping - just because you put them down doesn't mean you stop.
Happy Hornet
02-23-2008, 06:11 PM
What about if the only way to touch the ground is to slide your ass cheek over? How the heck can you get 2 feet down? This would be a law against short people! Civil Disabilities Action required
silversvs
02-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Well, it sounds to me like he had one foot down - which is certainly easy to do.


I've been told that Hollister has a local ordinance that requires both feet down, it's possible that other cities do too. The advice in this thread is all based on the assumption that you received a vehicle code ticket.

Doh! Reading comprehension would help.

Go to court and request a trial. When trial date comes up listen to the officer's testimony (he has to go first). If he states you came to a stop but only put one foot down, wait until he is finished. When it is your turn, ask him to show you the section requiring both feet to be down. He won't be able to and the case will be dismissed. If he states that you simply did not come to a complete stop, then question him about what he asked you and why he told you you had to have two feet down. Testify that you came to a complete stop and put a foot down. Then simply tell the judge/commisioner what the officer told you about two feet.

I don't know of any City or County with an ordinance requiring both fete be put down for a motorcyclist at a stop sign. Its an assenine requirement.
monkeythumpa
02-23-2008, 06:23 PM
Were you in Hollister? Some cities have ordinances about nit picky things like that.
=+=
02-23-2008, 06:27 PM
No, I was in San Francisco, at one of those annoying stop signs on Ocean Ave. Silversvs, your suggestion sounds pretty good, I think I will do attempt to cross-examine the police officer. Do police officers audio-record their traffic stops? I think that would be evidence in my favor showing that the cop was confused about the law.
My900ss
02-23-2008, 06:42 PM
What does it specifically say on the ticket?
5MARY4
02-23-2008, 06:45 PM
Did someone say stop w/o putting down da feets??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Z7ZHxVFBY
Squeeky
02-23-2008, 07:40 PM
I can come to a stop and balance, but I always put at least one foot down so that any LEO's watching for people running the stop signs will know that there was no doubt that I came to a complete stop.
AbsolutEnduser
02-23-2008, 07:42 PM
actually putting the (one) foot down also informs regular people in the car at 90-degree from you, that you really intend to stop and let the car cross, too .. :) if there is a car of course
B-mtrd
02-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Did someone say stop w/o putting down da feets??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Z7ZHxVFBY

My respects, those are amazing Skills :hail
=+=
02-23-2008, 08:45 PM
The tickets says:

22450 CVC STOP SIGN VIO
silversvs
02-23-2008, 08:46 PM
Did someone say stop w/o putting down da feets??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Z7ZHxVFBY

At least you gave some sport on that one and didn't go for the immediate brake check like some other one I remember.
5MARY4
02-23-2008, 09:40 PM
Brake checks only work on those that follow too close:rofl
AceT100
02-23-2008, 09:45 PM
used to be able to stop dead on the Monster & sit there for 5 or 6 seconds with both feet up at stops...getting there with the Bonnie too...
Zar
02-24-2008, 12:54 AM
5MARY4: Props to you. You have great skills.
Razel
02-24-2008, 01:13 AM
Did someone say stop w/o putting down da feets??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Z7ZHxVFBY
Wasn't that 5Mary6?














:teeth
silversvs
02-24-2008, 03:36 AM
Brake checks only work on those that follow too close:rofl


Yeah the ones who actually like to play follow the leader.
5MARY4
02-24-2008, 08:05 AM
I like playing lead the follower,, my odds improve greatly. And as some may know,, I was unbelievably lucky in Oakland. I won five straight coin tosses which placed me as the leader rather than the follower. I shoulda bought a lottery ticket that day....
cole123
02-24-2008, 10:02 AM
Do you ride much:wtf That is awesome...you own that machine:thumbup
silversvs
02-24-2008, 11:03 AM
It owns him. He can't say "no." Its an addiction.
5MARY4
02-24-2008, 11:03 AM
Do you ride much:wtf That is awesome...you own that machine:thumbup

Only about 40 hrs a week:ride . It helps to have a PIA partner (5M6),, critique you alllll day long. Thanks for the props,, I have had my A** SMOKED by some guys though. The stars just happened to line up for me that day....
Rel
02-24-2008, 01:05 PM
The question is this: Did you come to a complete stop at the limit line? Did you stop ALL forward momentum? The way I do it is this: if the tires stop rotating then you came to a stop, if not, then you get the ticket.
m54samrr
02-24-2008, 01:26 PM
5MARY4 - just.......DAMN!!! nice video! I love seeing you guys toss those rigs side to side at slow speed!
saizai
02-24-2008, 02:50 PM
5M4 - Very well done.


OP - If you did in fact come to a complete stop (and were simply balancing for a second or two)... go to court and fight it. Try a trial by declaration first if you can.

I presume this was a non-motorcycle cop?

Try this for cross-examination:
"Did you tell me [quote as close as possible the part about feet down]?"
"Yes"
"Is this what made you conclude that I had not come to a complete stop?"
a) "Yes" b) "Not only that; there was also [...]"
"Could you please show the court where in the CVC or driver's handbook it says that?"
"...."
(optional) "When was the last time you had training in the CVC as applied to motorcyclists?"

If b) address whatever else he brings up.

But having him claim something is law and not be able to cite it ('cause it doesn't exist) is going to hurt his case a lot. You could use it as justification for requesting the judge that he (and possibly his department?) get additional training about the CVC as applied to motorcyclists, so that this doesn't happen to others.
silversvs
02-24-2008, 04:56 PM
But having him claim something is law and not be able to cite it ('cause it doesn't exist) is going to hurt his case a lot. You could use it as justification for requesting the judge that he (and possibly his department?) get additional training about the CVC as applied to motorcyclists, so that this doesn't happen to others.

Where do you get these ideas? :wow :nerd

The judge will dismiss the case and give a not guilty verdict. The judge is not going to try to mandate training for a department.
NorCalBusa
02-24-2008, 05:12 PM
Where do you get these ideas? :wow :nerd

The judge will dismiss the case and give a not guilty verdict. The judge is not going to try to mandate training for a department.

Are you implying the Judge won't go back and dismiss every m/c ticket that cop wrote? :shocker
=+=
02-25-2008, 02:52 PM
Thanks everyone for their great advice.
One more question: are all traffic stops tape-recorded by the police officer? I remember hearing about this before. That's why they say to never admit to the officer if you were speeding, for example.

If the stop was recorded, then I would have clear evidence that the cop was using "feet down" as a criterion for stopping.
Mangoat
02-25-2008, 03:34 PM
I don't see how two feet down can be enforced. How about our 5 foot tall asian brothas who could barely get one foot down? :confused
silversvs
02-25-2008, 03:47 PM
Thanks everyone for their great advice.
One more question: are all traffic stops tape-recorded by the police officer? I remember hearing about this before. That's why they say to never admit to the officer if you were speeding, for example.

If the stop was recorded, then I would have clear evidence that the cop was using "feet down" as a criterion for stopping.

No.

Some agencies mandate that they are.

Some agencies suggest that they are.

Some agencies don't care.

Many agencies can't afford to buy everyone a recorder.
saizai
02-26-2008, 01:15 PM
You could, however, ask for discovery before trial for him to give you a copy of all recordings made of that stop (be it radio traffic, dash cam if any, personal recorder if any, etc). If it's not provided by trial (assuming you meet deadlines for asking), it's an automatic dismissal.


silversvs - If a single officer states that something is true about the law [that they enforce] that isn't (eg that one is "required" to put both feet down, not merely to come to a complete stop), they need remedial training about that subject. (Where there's one mistake there are probably more... e.g. this officer probably also thinks that lanesharing is illegal, and acts accordingly - which would be a bad thing, right?)

If they were *trained* that way, and it's not just them forgetting good training, then the training needs revision - and whoever else was trained incorrectly needs to have it too, or else they'll continue thinking what that officer did.

ETA: This "remedial training" could well be as simple as the shift supervisor going over it at the next rollcall. Whatever it takes to ensure the officer(s) know what the correct version is and enforce it appropriately.
5MARY4
02-26-2008, 03:02 PM
You could, however, ask for discovery before trial for him to give you a copy of all recordings made of that stop (be it radio traffic, dash cam if any, personal recorder if any, etc). If it's not provided by trial (assuming you meet deadlines for asking), it's an automatic dismissal.


silversvs - If a single officer states that something is true about the law that isn't (eg that one is "required" to put both feet down, not merely to come to a complete stop), they need remedial training about that subject. (Where there's one mistake there are probably more... e.g. this officer probably also thinks that lanesharing is illegal, and acts accordingly - which would be a bad thing, right?)

If they were *trained* that way, and it's not just them forgetting good training, then the training needs revision - and whoever else was trained incorrectly needs to have it too, or else they'll continue thinking what that officer did.


:Popcorn... Standing by for Silvr,, this oughta be good.....
Psychochik
02-26-2008, 04:31 PM
The question is this: Did you come to a complete stop at the limit line? Did you stop ALL forward momentum? The way I do it is this: if the tires stop rotating then you came to a stop, if not, then you get the ticket.

What do you do about the peeps with the spinnahz yo ?!?! You cant tell if theyre stopped or if theyre still moving !!! :teeth
serazin
02-26-2008, 10:08 PM
Did someone say stop w/o putting down da feets??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Z7ZHxVFBY


That was totally cool!!!! :thumbup:thumbup:thumbup
Mstaples
02-29-2008, 01:43 PM
Well I hope you got your mind right about this both feet down business, Mr. We're talkin safety here, not to mentiion the very integrity of our system of laws and order. Could have been lives lost and property damaged. You let one of these guilty bastard's roll a stop sign without putting both feet down today, and tomarrow its one foot... then no feet, and the next thing you know, their swoopin through stop-signs at 100 miles an hour. Got to nip it in the bud... right here in River City... cause it starts with a "P" and that rhyms with "T" and that stands for "Trouble." Right here.
jordan
02-29-2008, 01:57 PM
Don't mean to thread-jack but that was cool 5MARY4, great control! :wtf:thumbup
JPM
02-29-2008, 02:24 PM
Well I hope you got your mind right about this both feet down business, Mr. We're talkin safety here, not to mentiion the very integrity of our system of laws and order. Could have been lives lost and property damaged. You let one of these guilty bastard's roll a stop sign without putting both feet down today, and tomarrow its one foot... then no feet, and the next thing you know, their swoopin through stop-signs at 100 miles an hour. Got to nip it in the bud... right here in River City... cause it starts with a "P" and that rhyms with "T" and that stands for "Trouble." Right here.


Here is a new friend for you.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/member.php?u=15287

This could make for some really interesting threads! :laughing
Psychochik
02-29-2008, 02:39 PM
Here is a new friend for you.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/member.php?u=15287

This could make for some really interesting threads! :laughing

Thats just plain mean for the rest of us. :x


:laughing :laughing