CHP buying Honda's!

[NorCalBusa]

Only two right now, for "evaluating".:ride

[silverbelt]

ST1300 police version? I guess Honda finally put one together. I'm interested to see how the testers rate it against the BMW R1100RTP.

[NorCalBusa]

Honda's been offering a ST1300A-P for three years. The current P-Bimmer is the 1200 dude. You drinking tonight or what?

[silverbelt]

:Port

At least I'm not driving or riding :|

[enki]

Fresno police failed it. Too hot in summer with that fan blowing on you.

[5MARY4]

So, despite recent rumors the drama is not over at CHP?:wtf How long is this going to take??? Buy a freekn bike and run with it !!!

I tested the Honda ST and the BMW 1200 before our purchase. Both bikes are very good. I actually preferred the Honda. It definately gets the nod in the performance arena. Yes it does generate some heat that needs to be ducted away from the rider more efficiently,, BUT that bike was a dream to ride. Nimble, quick, and very fast on the top side.

I hope the CHP gets this done quick:rofl,, yea right !!! Those poor bastards are riding around with bikes being held together by duct tape and bubble gum.....

[afm199]

I rode one at Streets of Willow a couple years ago. Fun bike, great motor, and it handled well for such a semi large machine. The Goldie has an awesome motor :)

[NorCalBusa]

Seems they just can't get the BMW to qualify (if my source is accurate). They've sent the two demo's from Long Beach BMW back and forth a few times, and the West Coast BMW rep (Chuck, retired CHP motor) has been probably living at the academy for the last 6 months...

I can tell ya from my Honda days; I'm not so sure Honda is anxious for that account. CHP has pretty much fucked the pooch with a lot of their vendors, who have bent over backwards to accommodate their "after the contract" requests. What smart vendor would want a super low margin, high maintenance, high profile account?

[afm199]

Seems they just can't get the BMW to qualify (if my source is accurate). They've sent the two demo's from Long Beach BMW back and forth a few times, and the West Coast BMW rep (Chuck, retired CHP motor) has been probably living at the academy for the last 6 months...

I can tell ya from my Honda days; I'm not so sure Honda is anxious for that account. CHP has pretty much fucked the pooch with a lot of their vendors, who have bent over backwards to accommodate their "after the contract" requests. What smart vendor would want a super low margin, high maintenance, high profile account?

Ehhh, Schleicher BMW ( no longer around) made a good living off the BMW trade for years.

[NorCalBusa]

As did/does A&S BMW. I'm referring to the factory level.

[m31195]

We went with the Honda and are extremely happy with them. The BMW was nice, but can't compare with the Honda's handling and speed. A big plus for the BMW was the fact that it came ready to go to work from the dealer (lights, siren, etc..) all that was needed was a radio. The Honda on the otherhand had to be put together, but it was worth the effort. I can't imagine why CHP would not go with the Honda just based on its performance.

[5MARY4]

What issue are they having with the BMW?????

[masameet]

Some months back while driving on Monument Blvd., I saw a moto LEO up ahead and sped up to ride along side him. The Concord LEO was on a Honda 1300. We chatted for a few seconds but I forgot to ask him about something I noticed about the bike -- at 30 or so mph, it made a high-pitched electrical whine.

Man, that noise would drive me nuts after a while. Any chance that the mike system in a moto helmet helps to dampen that kind of noise?

[5MARY4]

Masameet:

Are you sure the sound was not coming from the exhaust? The st's sound like it has a turbo,, or crickets shoved up the pipe.

[masameet]

Oh, I dunno where the sound was coming from. I just found it annoying and I wasn't even on the bike. :laughing

[reaLst]

I hope the CHP gets this done quick:rofl,, yea right !!! Those poor bastards are riding around with bikes being held together by duct tape and bubble gum.....

Booo.. and I got a ticket for a license plate held by a couple zip ties :cry

[NorCalBusa]

What issue are they having with the BMW?????

What I've heard is they don't like first gear, the lights & siren don't meet Title 13, and the dudes from Rancho will kick their ass in competition.

[}Dragon{]

What I've heard is they don't like first gear, the lights & siren don't meet Title 13, and the dudes from Rancho will kick their ass in competition.

:rofl ^^^

So when is CHP gonna test the MotoGuzzi?

[m31195]

The sound is from the exhaust and its not an issue with the helmet on. Unlike the harley's we had!

[NorCalBusa]

So, despite recent rumors the drama is not over at CHP?:wtf How long is this going to take??? Buy a freekn bike and run with it !!!

I tested the Honda ST and the BMW 1200 before our purchase. Both bikes are very good. I actually preferred the Honda. It definately gets the nod in the performance arena. Yes it does generate some heat that needs to be ducted away from the rider more efficiently,, BUT that bike was a dream to ride. Nimble, quick, and very fast on the top side.

I hope the CHP gets this done quick:rofl,, yea right !!! Those poor bastards are riding around with bikes being held together by duct tape and bubble gum.....

Oh- and the Counting Unit won't fit in the tailbox! CHP's radios are what, 30 years old?, and the radio chassis takes up all the room...Won't go on top, won't go on the side- even if they move it all around.

[5MARY4]

Is the radio box on the ST any bigger?

[NorCalBusa]

Is the radio box on the ST any bigger?

Not even as big- it's more of little "flair" box that goes where the rear seat would go. I have gotten the siren amp, the radio, and a Counting Unit in there- no problem. The issue isn't the box size (bring on the jokes!), but that CHP is using a 30 year old radio (think; HUGE), then another radio for their extender setup- 25 pounds of shit in a ten pound box ain't going to work...

[nweaver]

Of course, Kawasaki needs to take the concours, add a little more cooling ducting, a 1 KW generator, and sell THAT as a police bike.

It would make my lanesplitting on the way to work easier :teeth

[JPM]

Of course, Kawasaki needs to take the concours, add a little more cooling ducting, a 1 KW generator, and sell THAT as a police bike.

It would make my lanesplitting on the way to work easier :teeth

And make it so the saddlebags don't fall off. :wow:laughing

[RolnCode3]

What I've heard is they don't like first gear, the lights & siren don't meet Title 13
Aren't the lights just Code3 3 head Optix? Title 13 requires 2 class D to the front, 1 can flash. Is it the flashing patterns, the power? Any ideas?

What siren/speaker combo is installed?

[NorCalBusa]

Aren't the lights just Code3 3 head Optix? Title 13 requires 2 class D to the front, 1 can flash. Is it the flashing patterns, the power? Any ideas?

What siren/speaker combo is installed?

It's all Code 3; the BMW enclosure assemblies either have never been Title 13 certified or don't comply, ditto on the siren. For 3 years, CHP has been dialing up the scrutiny of Title 13 (or not) equipment. Remember the Camaros with the perforated ducts at the under-cowl ends? That wasn't for brake caliper air flow- it was because they had to add a second siren speaker to meet Title 13. CHP, for the last 3 years, has also put on a Title 13 seminar at CopsWest- getting the word out (for example; only Wail and Yelp are Title 13 siren sounds- from a liability perspective, Taser/Phaser/Barking Dog/all the rest are as good as leaving it turned off). Strobes in the turn signal housing (EVERYONE has them)- not approved by Title 13 or by D.O.T.- in fact, as soon as the shop cuts into the DOT approved housing- they void the DOT certificate for the turn signal/brake light (as the approved assembly has been chagned, and therefore needs new certification- which has never been done).

[nweaver]

And make it so the saddlebags don't fall off. :wow:laughing

That they've already done. There's an NTSB recall on that and the luggage rack.

[plumber]

So I'm assuming the ST1300 doesn't have the high speed weave anymore?

[NorCalBusa]

And make it so the saddlebags don't fall off. :wow:laughing

Demanding ass fookin customers! Next, you'll want the gas tank to not catch fire and the brakes to work.:shocker

[NorCalBusa]

So I'm assuming the ST1300 doesn't have the high speed weave anymore?

Yes, I stopped beating my wife.

Never had a single complaint of it in the US. The Euro bikes that did it ALL had pee dee equipment mounted exactly where Honda Publications said not to (raised and moved aft the CG).

[Entropy_Slave]

Strobes in the turn signal housing (EVERYONE has them)- not approved by Title 13 or by D.O.T.- in fact, as soon as the shop cuts into the DOT approved housing- they void the DOT certificate for the turn signal/brake light (as the approved assembly has been chagned, and therefore needs new certification- which has never been done).

haha wait....does this mean that any time a motor officer cites someone for aftermarket/ noncompliant lights or blinkers, there is a good likelihood that his or her agency issued bike is itself not compliant?

oh that's rich

(and for the record all of my lighting is and has always been stock)

[antarius]

The ST1300's are ugly though....

[NorCalBusa]

haha wait....does this mean that any time a motor officer cites someone for aftermarket/ noncompliant lights or blinkers, there is a good likelihood that his or her agency issued bike is itself not compliant?

oh that's rich

(and for the record all of my lighting is and has always been stock)

Depends. :p

On the Crown Vic's; there's a chance.
On bikes; only the BMW 1200 (2007 and up) have those model Code 3 lights.

[NorCalBusa]

The ST1300's are ugly though....

Eye of the beholder and all that... Go ride one, you suddenly won't be so concerned about how it looks!

[antarius]

I rode one -- when I was at motor school. I didn't like it, but then, I didn't know what to look for either.

[NorCalBusa]

Chicks dig 'em. What else do ya need?

[JPM]

Actually as long as there is one front facing solid steady red light facing forward visible from 1000 feet away police cars can have any other lights they want if they meet title 13 or not as the one red meets the requirement.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25258.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25259.htm

[NorCalBusa]

Actually as long as there is one front facing solid steady red light facing forward visible from 1000 feet away police cars can have any other lights they want if they meet title 13 or not as the one red meets the requirement.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25258.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25259.htm

Not according to CHP's emergency equipment seminar. And, there has been several civil cases lost due to unapproved equipment. In one; the siren was capable of a non-Title 13 sound (Phaser), the injured parties attorney figured it out, and the case settled for >$2mm. It's what you do, not me- but I'm pretty sure all the lights need to meet Title 13 and there are regulations for height, position fore and aft of various colors etc. The specific point CHP stated repeatedly was that all this "other stuff" isn't Kosher and present huge liability. There was even talk of CHP training one CHP officer in each Command area to be the "red light" expert- and have them go inspect and certify the law and fire agencies (and I'd think ambulances). Press hard JPM- three copies!

[JPM]

The entire title 13 section on lights. Lights are different that sirens. As long the vehicle meets the one red requirement you can add all the extra pretty lights you want. As for the siren, it says no other tones allowed.

13 CA ADC § 818


13 CCR § 818

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 13, § 818




BARCLAYS OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS
TITLE 13. MOTOR VEHICLES
DIVISION 2. DEPARTMENT OF THE CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL
CHAPTER 2. LIGHTING EQUIPMENT
ARTICLE 22. WARNING LAMPS
This database is current through 2/15/08, Register 2008, No. 7
§ 818. Type of Warning Lamps Used on Emergency Vehicles and Special Hazard Vehicles.


Warning lamps on emergency vehicles and special hazard vehicles shall be of the following types:
(a) Required Red Warning Lamps on Authorized Emergency Vehicles. The steady burning red warning lamp required to be visible to the front of an authorized emergency vehicle by Vehicle Code Section 25252 shall be a Class A, B or C warning lamp. Motorcycles may instead be equipped with two Class D warning lamps in the front, one of which may flash.

(b) Permitted Additional Red Warning Lamps on Authorized Emergency Vehicles. The additional steady burning or flashing red warning lamp permitted by Vehicle Code Section 25252 shall be a Class A, B, C, or E warning lamp.

(c) Permitted Yellow Warning Lamps on Authorized Emergency Vehicles. The additional flashing yellow warning lamp permitted on authorized emergency vehicles by Vehicle Code Section 25259 shall be a Class B, C, or E warning lamp. Two yellow motorcycle turn signal lamps may be used as warning lamps on the rear of motorcycles.

(d) Permitted Blue Warning Lamps on Police Vehicles. The additional flashing or steady burning blue warning lamp permitted by Vehicle Code Section 25258(b) shall be Class B, C, or E.

(e) Required Yellow Warning Lamps on Tow Cars. The flashing yellow warning lamp required on tow cars by Vehicle Code Section 25253 shall be a Class B, C, or E warning lamp. The flashing yellow warning lamp permitted to be displayed to the rear of a tow car while towing a vehicle and moving at a speed slower than the normal flow of traffic may be a 360-degree revolving or gaseous discharge lamp. In such case, the front and side areas of the lens or transparent cover that extends back to 45 degrees to each side of the straight-to-the-rear axis of the lamp shall be covered with opaque material reaching to the top of the lighted area. A revolving lamp may instead be equipped with a device that turns each light source off during the forward three-fourths of its rotation.

(f) Permitted Yellow Warning Lamps on Special Hazard Vehicles. The flashing yellow warning lamps permitted on special hazard vehicles by Article 7 of Division 12 of the Vehicle Code beginning with Section 25252, shall be a Class B, C, or E warning lamp, depending on whether the lamp is permitted to be displayed only to the front and rear or to the front, sides, and rear.

(g) Warning Lamps for Undercover Cars. The required steady-burning forward-facing warning lamps on authorized emergency vehicles with special plates permitted by Vehicle Code Section 5001 shall be a class A, B, or C. This warning lamp may also be a fixed or handheld red spotlamp with a filament of at least 30 watts, and producing at least 3,000 candela in red at the brightest point in the beam. Such a lamp need not meet any of the other requirements of this article except for color. Additional steady-burning or flashing warning lamps shall be class A, B, C, or E. These warning lamps may be displayed through transparent or translucent material provided the light, of proper color, is plainly visible and understandable in bright sunlight and during darkness, under normal atmospheric conditions, to a distance of 800 feet from the vehicle. These lights shall not transfigure, disrupt or mask any other required lighting device.


<General Materials (GM) - References, Annotations, or Tables>


Note: Authority cited: Section 26103, Vehicle Code. Reference: Sections 24012 and 26103, Vehicle Code.



HISTORY

1. Amendment of subsections (e) and (g) filed 11-25-2002; operative 12-25-2002
(Register 2002, No. 48).

13 CCR § 818, 13 CA ADC § 818
1CAC

13 CA ADC § 818

END OF DOCUMENT

(C) 2008 Thomson/West. No Claim to Orig. US Gov. Works.

[JPM]

And the siren.

13 CA ADC § 1028


13 CCR § 1028

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 13, § 1028




BARCLAYS OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS
TITLE 13. MOTOR VEHICLES
DIVISION 2. DEPARTMENT OF THE CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL
CHAPTER 4. SPECIAL EQUIPMENT
ARTICLE 8. SIRENS
This database is current through 2/15/08, Register 2008, No. 7
§ 1028. Performance Requirements.


(a) Siren Functions. Electronic sirens shall have a wail function and may also have manual and yelp functions. No other function is permitted on sirens sold after January 1, 1982, except for voice communication. Sirens shall meet the following requirements in addition to the sound levels specified in Table I:

(1) Wail. The wail function shall have an automatic undulating pitch rate of not less than 10 nor more than 30 oscillations per minute. The sound level shall not drop more than 10 dB(A) below the required values in Table I during the lowest portion of any cycle.


(2) Manual. Electronic sirens manufactured after January 1, 1982, which include a manual function shall use the vehicle horn ring or any other manual momentary contact switch to allow the vehicle operator to switch between the wail and yelp functions, to momentarily override the descending sound pattern of the automatic cycle when the control is set at "wail," or to produce a manually-cycled wail when the control is set at "manual."


(3) Yelp. The yelp function shall have an automatic undulating pitch rate of not less than 150 nor more than 250 oscillations per minute, except for sirens sold prior to July 1, 1980.


(b) Sound Level Output. Two classes of sirens, A and B, are established based on the A-weighted sound level output measured at the angles specified in Table I. The sound level measurements of electronic sirens shall be started immediately after the siren has been operated for one minute. A deviation of 1 dB(A) below the specified value shall be allowed at any three of the eleven test points.




Image 1 (1.5" X 3.75") Not available for Offline Print to STP or FAX




Table I. Minimum A-Weighted Sound Level at 3.0 m (9.8 ft)


___________________________________________
Rotation
deg
left and right Sound Level, dB(A)
from axis Class A Class B
___________________________________________
0 120 115
10 119 114
20 118 113
30 117 112
40 115 110
50 113 108
___________________________________________


(c) Siren Classification. The A or B overall classification of a siren shall be the class of the lowest performing function incorporated in the siren. The reported sound level for each test point under manual operation shall be the steady-state level reached during continuous activation. The reported sound level for the wail and yelp functions at each test point shall be the average of the levels reached by five consecutive major peaks.

(d) Frequency Requirements. The maximum sound level in the axis of the siren shall occur in either the 1000- or the 2000-Hz octave bands for all functions.

(e) Electronic Siren Wattage. The wattage drawn by speakers of electronic sirens shall not exceed the following requirements when tested at the voltages specified in Section 1027(b) of this article. The voltage leads of the wattmeter shall be connected to the speaker terminals on the amplifier, and readings shall be taken in the order of manual, wail, and yelp.

(1) At the voltage specified for the sound level tests, the measured wattage after 1 min and before 3 min of operation shall not exceed the rating of the driver.


(2) At the voltage specified for wattage tests, the wattage shall not exceed 105% of the rating of the driver when measured after 10 min of operation.


(3) The wattage recorded for wail and yelp shall be the mathematical average of the high and low readings of five continuous cycles as the signal varies.



<General Materials (GM) - References, Annotations, or Tables>


Note: Authority cited: Section 26103, Vehicle Code. Reference: Sections 26103 and 26104, Vehicle Code.



HISTORY

1. Editorial correction of NOTE (Register 81, No. 44).

13 CCR § 1028, 13 CA ADC § 1028
1CAC

13 CA ADC § 1028

END OF DOCUMENT

(C) 2008 Thomson/West. No Claim to Orig. US Gov. Works.

[Trick SV]

Those poor bastards are riding around with bikes being held together by duct tape and bubble gum.....

:rofl:rofl

[ex911]

didn't the ST take top honors in a police riding competition recently?

[Sidesaddle]

Only two right now, for "evaluating".:ride

So, who is evaluating them? I've been asking around and no one seems to know anything about this.

As of March 1st, CHP bought 10 R1200RTP's to "evaluate" which should be delivered by the end of the month and spread tout hroughout the state. If all goes well, BMW will be awarded the contract this summer and deliveries will start.

The reason for the evaluation is that 2 different bikes sucked up a piston on the 100 mph ride for 5 minutes.

Also, these bikes are not being held together by duct tape, bubble gum or anything else. If something breaks it is either fixed or the bike is taken out of service. I'm at 78,000 miles on my bike and I believe it is perfectly safe. If not I would not be riding it.

I don't plan on the wife collecting that life insurance policy anytime soon.

[5MARY4]

Sidesaddle:

Sorry, I was a little over the top with my comment. Yes the bikes are safe,, there are some that are getting pretty long in the tooth however. It's just sad that this process has taken so long and has left many of the motors on bikes which should have been replaced by now. I just feel for ya guys,, thats all.:thumbup

[NorCalBusa]

I heard it from DGS. "Bought 10 bikes"- amazing. They've been evaluating the 1200 for what, over a year already? And the entire bike thing started 2 1/2 yrs ago when Laidlaw Harley (LA) won the bid- but ran from the table. Next Santa Cruz Harley wins and wastes 8 months of their lives, and now after fiddling with Long Beach BMW for another 6-8 months they buy "10"? The bid was for for 350+ bikes (IIRC), years ago...

[Sidesaddle]

5MARY4,
No offense taken. I read my first reply and I came off a little stronger then I meant to. I just do not want people to think our bikes are unsafe. You are right about the bikes being long in the tooth. Mine has a tired feeling when I try and get off the shoulder in a hurry. It has been frustrating to say the least. Every time you take the bike in for a repair it has to be approved and you never know if it will be approved or not.

NorCalBusa,
I wouldn't be surprised if DGS has something in the works. I think we should test the Honda's and see what we think about them on the next bidding cycle. We are still just trying to get through this one. If not for the sucked pistons on the two bikes I think the CHP would have went for all the bikes now. It's an odd situation. DGS can tell the CHP what bike to buy, but then the CHP does not have to pick them up and ride them.

[nweaver]

The ST1300 is a very nimble bike, decent power and rides nice. It's a hands down over the BMW when it comes to power and reliability.

You want a fast LE bike? Concours14 - has the ZX14 motor - top speed in the low 150's- detuned a bit but it is friggin fast! Not as nimble as the ST -- a good motor officer will eat up any squid on a sportbike on a C14. :teeth

The Connie 14 has two problems for LEO duty, both of which could be fixed but Kawasaki would need to fix them:

a) A bit better heat management. Riding its pretty fine, but it could be better. Especially compared to an RT bimmer.

b) A MUCH bigger alternator. Instead of the dinky 1/2 kW jobbie that only provides about 75W of spare juice, it should have a kW alternator and 500W of spare juice for electrical goodies.

[tlsmikey]

Saw one of the ST1300's today at lunch (Carl's Jr.). Best looking bike of the bunch. Looks like there were at least three different bikes being used across ~10 officers. I saw three different rear compartments on the various bikes. I believe the rest were BMW's but can't say for sure. That ST sure is nice looking though.

[NorCalBusa]

Saw one of the ST1300's today at lunch (Carl's Jr.). Best looking bike of the bunch. Looks like there were at least three different bikes being used across ~10 officers. I saw three different rear compartments on the various bikes. I believe the rest were BMW's but can't say for sure. That ST sure is nice looking though.

Yeah, San Jose bought 8 ST-1300's from me in November, to test against their existing Bimmers and Harley's. A few weeks ago, they came back with a request for 45 more...so I think they liked the Honda!:ride

[serazin]

Modesto has been running a couple of the Hondas since last year I think.

[NorCalBusa]

I don't think the CHP/DGS Honda buy is happening, not heard a thing about it since I first mentioned it. Probably saber rattling to get BMW on the ball.

[motorman4life]

The BMW contract has been on year-to-year waivers since 1998 (inception) due to it not meeting the communication standard. We had a thread on this before, but the BMW does not have enough metal to reflect an adequate signal when you are going directly toward or from the repeater.

In city riding, it is not an issue, because in traffic, there is adequate reflective metal around you. But, out in Buttonwillow and up north of Redding.. you are S.O.L.

The CHP has a high standard for communications and they use a turntable at the academy to measure the signal as they spin the bike slowly with an open carrier. They added a metal plate under the radio mount and even crafted a metal rear plate mount to replace the non-ferious one that came OEM. It did not work... so the waiver had to be renewed each year while BMW supposedly searched for a fix. but secretly hoped the CHP would upgrade their radio system.. at least for the bikes.

It seems clear the Honda, by all accounts, provides superior performance in most areas, it remains to be seen whether they have a solution for the communication issue BMW has not been able to lick.

[5MARY4]

Is the rumor mill still open? A buddy of mine that works South Sac. CHP said he should have his new BMW 1200 in about two weeks,,he's not holding his breath though.

[NorCalBusa]

If nothing else, it sure looks safely demonstrated that CHP will be riding to 100k on all new bikes now...not 60k as before.

[5MARY4]

I'm not so sure. A cost analysis my show that the repairs needed over 60k may be cost prohibitive??? That comes out of pocket instead of warranty. BMWs are exxxxpensive to repair.

[NorCalBusa]

I'm not so sure. A cost analysis my show that the repairs needed over 60k may be cost prohibitive??? That comes out of pocket instead of warranty. BMWs are exxxxpensive to repair.

Could be Brian, but it also could be due to NOTHING got fixed the last 10k that wasn't warranty- so the bikes were simply depleted at 60k, needing major fixing to put back in service at the last minute. Wonder if we'll ever know?

What is most remarkable is how long this has taken. Wonder if the new (old) CHP boss will make nice with DGS or we can expect more of the same when it's time to buy radios (or wait, that's way overdue too!). The radio committee has wasted millions and millions in the last couple years, and gotten nothing done. The consolidated patrol car (smart/integrated police car equipment) team is the same- they've got a bunch of equipment sitting new in boxes, that doesn't work- and yet they cling to the notion it's needed, when no other large agency sees the need.

[Traq]

As the owner of an R12RT the CHP should be happy it's taking so long. Maybe when they finally jump and buy the RTs BMW will have the final drive sorted out. :rant

[mnb]

Stories of final drive issues in beemers appear to have been greatly exaggerated.

I'd heard another issue with the CHP and the BMW were the lights weren't to up to spec?

[Traq]

Stories of final drive issues in beemers appear to have been greatly exaggerated.

Tell that to my final drive.

[plumber]

Tell that to my final drive.

You only hear about the failures. You never hear about the 1000s of others that keep on going.

[Razel]

Stories of final drive issues in beemers appear to have been greatly exaggerated.

I'd heard another issue with the CHP and the BMW were the lights weren't to up to spec?

Tell that to my final drive....and the four IBR riders this year that got awarded "DNF" for the same thing.

BMW needs to go back to Taiwan for the final drive bearings and forget about PRC for a few years.

[plumber]

...and the four IBR riders this year that got awarded "DNF" for the same thing.

BMW needs to go back to Taiwan for the final drive bearings and forget about PRC for a few years.

There were 3 FD failures in the '07 IBR. BMW had 41% of the entries with a total of 40 bikes. BMW had 4 or the top 5 finishers. A Harley was third and the best FJR finish was 6th. The best ST finish was 10th.

[motorman4life]

You only hear about the failures. You never hear about the 1000s of others that keep on going.
Aren't they SUPPOSED to keep going? :shocker I mean, is it a FLUKE that 1000's keep going? Of course you only hear about the failures.. that is the issue!

[plumber]

Aren't they SUPPOSED to keep going? :shocker I mean, is it a FLUKE that 1000's keep going? Of course you only hear about the failures.. that is the issue!

Does the CHP consider it an issue? They haven't AFAIK. How many working (motor officers) R1200RTP final drive failures have there been? It's nice to throw stones at the bike but without hard data it's just gum flapping.

[mnb]

Of course you only hear about the failures.. that is the issue!

You only hear about the fatalities in Iraq, too. Thousands have gone and come back and gone and come back again without dying, but from what you hear in the media it sounds like if you're a soldier going to Iraq, you ain't comin back.

You can't make a reliability determination based on the data from that ride for a couple reasons:

The ride is extreme endurance. 99.9% of the bikes out there are not going to be ridden very fast for 36 hours straight.

We don't know the history of the bikes that failed.

Hell, I know a ton of people riding beemers and I don't know a single one with an FD failure. Mines been working great for 12 years.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue, but from what you hear about the failures, they make it sound like beemer are dropping like flies, which is a gross exaggeration.

[NorCalBusa]

Does the CHP consider it an issue? They haven't AFAIK. How many working (motor officers) R1200RTP final drive failures have there been? It's nice to throw stones at the bike but without hard data it's just gum flapping.

Well, since CHP hasn't put ANY 1200's into service yet, I'd guess somewhere around...

[plumber]

Well, since CHP hasn't put ANY 1200's into service yet, I'd guess somewhere around...

:laughing OK I wasn't clear. How many agencies have reported a 1200RTP with a final drive failure? The number must be astronomical. :rofl

[Razel]

R1200RTP? One. IBR 2007. Rob Nye. 100% of the R1200RTP entries failed.
IBR Results (http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2007.cfm?DocID=45)
DNF Rob Nye, BMW R1200RTP, 4,492, 100,100

Stats are fun to play with, but the reality is BMW has a final drive issue with their motorcycles. Built to the edge of the performance envelope or defective components, it doesn't matter. There's more focus on that one issue than all the other "failures" combined. They'll fix it, if it hasn't been fixed already. But, like the surging, they'll never come out and admit it.

[plumber]

R1200RTP? One. IBR 2007. Rob Nye. 100% of the R1200RTP entries failed.
IBR Results (http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2007.cfm?DocID=45)
DNF Rob Nye, BMW R1200RTP, 4,492, 100,100

Stats are fun to play with, but the reality is BMW has a final drive issue with their motorcycles. Built to the edge of the performance envelope or defective components, it doesn't matter. There's more focus on that one issue than all the other "failures" combined. They'll fix it, if it hasn't been fixed already. But, like the surging, they'll never come out and admit it.

I guess I wasn't clear enough.......again. This is getting tiresome but I'll give it another shot.

How many R1200RT-P final drive failures have occurred during official LEO testing or official LEO work?

[NorCalBusa]

I guess I wasn't clear enough.......again. This is getting tiresome but I'll give it another shot.

How many R1200RT-P final drive failures have occurred during official LEO testing or official LEO work?

No way to gather that, there is no consolidated reporting (except by BMW and my guess is they don't share well with others).

[plumber]

No way to gather that, there is no consolidated reporting (except by BMW and my guess is they don't share well with others).

So you are saying that you don't know of any LEO FD failures. I haven't heard of any either.

[Triple R]

I hope the CHP gets this done quick:rofl,, yea right !!! Those poor bastards are riding around with bikes being held together by duct tape and bubble gum.....

Sounds like your calling them out :rofl


Ive seen super troopers, I know how this is going to end. :laughing:twofinger

[antarius]

I've spoken with three local agencies that ride the new 1200. They told me that they have had zero problems with their 1200's. That covers about 15 bikes so far, mileage unknown, been on patrol for "a while." (Some more than others)

I'm putting together a packet to get my department to move over to BMW's as well, with the first purchase being before July of this year, the next before the end of the next fiscal year.

[NorCalBusa]

I've spoken with three local agencies that ride the new 1200. They told me that they have had zero problems with their 1200's. That covers about 15 bikes so far, mileage unknown, been on patrol for "a while." (Some more than others)

I'm putting together a packet to get my department to move over to BMW's as well, with the first purchase being before July of this year, the next before the end of the next fiscal year.

Ride the Honda first dude!:thumbup

[antarius]

Ride the Honda first dude!:thumbup

There's no hope of moving my agency over to the Honda's. No other agency in my area (you know the area, but shhh) rides Honda's and my department does not exactly like to be the "first" at anything.

Perhaps in '10-'11 when we replace another motor I'll have them look at the Honda's, but for now I'm doing all I can just to get them away from the Harley's.

[NorCalBusa]

San Jose, after testing six bikes for a few months and being Harley/BMW guys for years; just ordered another 30 Hondas. Piggy-back dude, get a great deal!

(But yeah, I understand how difficult "change" can be)

[plumber]

San Jose, after testing six bikes for a few months and being Harley/BMW guys for years; just ordered another 30 Hondas. Piggy-back dude, get a great deal!

(But yeah, I understand how difficult "change" can be)

I hope everybody knows that you have a vested interest here. BTW are you a BARF sponsor?

[NorCalBusa]

I hope everybody knows that you have a vested interest here. BTW are you a BARF sponsor?

You are incorrect sir.:shocker

[plumber]

You are incorrect sir.:shocker

Yeah, San Jose bought 8 ST-1300's from me in November, to test against their existing Bimmers and Harley's. A few weeks ago, they came back with a request for 45 more...so I think they liked the Honda!:ride

Please elaborate..

[NorCalBusa]

As of December, I am not w/Honda any longer.