FasTrak Offenders?

[SMR99Si]

Hi,

I was just reading on Sfgate that CHP will be cracking down and pulling over people that try to blow through the FasTrak tolls without a transponder. I have never used a transponder for my bike, but it is registered under my FasTrak account. If I get pulled over will the LEO have access to look up my licence plate and find out that I in fact do have a FasTrak account?

[Junkie]

Get another transponder and put it somewhere on the bike :dunno

[beaker]

Carry your account statement or something showing you have one and I think they'd be nicer.

[nweaver]

I refuse to carry a transponder on the bike after I've been charged TWICE for going through mixed toll/carpool lanes.

[}Dragon{]

Hi,

I was just reading on Sfgate that CHP will be cracking down and pulling over people that try to blow through the FasTrak tolls without a transponder. I have never used a transponder for my bike, but it is registered under my FasTrak account. If I get pulled over will the LEO have access to look up my licence plate and find out that I in fact do have a FasTrak account?

Good question:thumbup

I heard this on the radio this AM and got to see two CHPs before the toll plaza on the Benicia bridge.

[B-Cuz]

I refuse to carry a transponder on the bike after I've been charged TWICE for going through mixed toll/carpool lanes.

Just wondering but how did you get charged twice? I figure one pass through one charge, two passes two charges, etc.

[CnDnMax]

Just wondering but how did you get charged twice? I figure one pass through one charge, two passes two charges, etc.
Im guessing two passes in the carpool lane and getting charged.

[mud]

This won't necessarily solve the problem of a false-negative. It seems the RFID signals have a difficult time penetrating most materials, including leather, kevlar-cordura, even Carhartt work pants. Short of showing it to the LEO once you're stopped, which won't necessarily prove it's registered to your vehicle, getting another transponder may be a waste of a deposit.

Get another transponder and put it somewhere on the bike :dunno

[metrorollah]

COPY_PASTE_PRINT

Dear Fastrak Customer,
Your account is opened with FasTrak. Your account number is 000000000.
Your feedback is very important to us as we strive to provide the best customer service.

Sincerely
FasTrak Customer Service Center

"Please do not reply to this message. This is an automatically generated notification. If you wish to contact a Customer Service Representative, please call the FasTrak Customer Service Center at 877-229-8655 (BAY-TOLL)."

[Godspeed710]

Hi,

I was just reading on Sfgate that CHP will be cracking down and pulling over people that try to blow through the FasTrak tolls without a transponder. I have never used a transponder for my bike, but it is registered under my FasTrak account. If I get pulled over will the LEO have access to look up my licence plate and find out that I in fact do have a FasTrak account?


it's cool if you just cruise on by... if you have fasttrak.... the camera's will look your lic number on the system and if your in the system... then you r a ok.:thumbup

[flying_hun]

I've seen the CHP lasering folks who are speeding through the toll booths, but how can they stop you just because your transponder doesn't register? They frequently fail to register, and I was told by a customer service rep at FasTrak that this is intentional to reduce the risk of false positives. So, you get popped for having your transponder working as designed?

[JPM]

If they stop you and have the tag with you and show it does not work, you probably won't get a ticket. If you don’t have the tag at all but have an account you may still get a ticket. Read the agreement and terms you agreed to when you signed up for it.

Install and use the Toll Tag in accordance with instructions provided to you in your Toll Tag package.


http://www.bayareafastrak.org/static/about/terms-print.html

[flying_hun]

If they stop you and have the tag with you and show it does not work, you probably won't get a ticket. If you don’t have the tag at all but have an account you may still get a ticket. Read the agreement and terms you agreed to when you signed up for it.

Install and use the Toll Tag in accordance with instructions provided to you in your Toll Tag package.


http://www.bayareafastrak.org/static/about/terms-print.html

John, maybe I should have posed my question differently. Is it a good use of resources to do this is false negatives are a common phenomena? Does this mean that there are lots and lots of folks using the lanes and not getting nabbed by the camera enforcement?

[reaLst]

John, maybe I should have posed my question differently. Is it a good use of resources to do this is false negatives are a common phenomena? Does this mean that there are lots and lots of folks using the lanes and not getting nabbed by the camera enforcement?

I remember reading that the cameras take picture of the vehicle's license plate, but someone must manually go through every picture to take down the license plate number.

I'd assume that some pictures would come out too blurry for people to see or that the camera wouldn't get a clear enough shot of the license plate.

[Mangoat]

If they stop you and have the tag with you and show it does not work, you probably won't get a ticket. If you don’t have the tag at all but have an account you may still get a ticket. Read the agreement and terms you agreed to when you signed up for it.

Install and use the Toll Tag in accordance with instructions provided to you in your Toll Tag package.


http://www.bayareafastrak.org/static/about/terms-print.html

For Motos:Can I use FasTrak® with my motorcycle?
Motorcycles can use FasTrak® to pay tolls by mounting their toll tag in a secure location. We do not advise you to hold the toll tag up while driving through the toll lane as it may not be read accurately. Also, we are not responsible for any lost toll tags due to the toll tag not adhering to the motorcycle windshield.
It is recommended that you use one of the following methods to secure your toll tag:

Place toll tag in your front pocket, as it can be read through the material.
Place toll tag inside a cycle net (somewhere on top) that drapes over the gas tank.
Leave toll tag in the glove compartment, if applicable.

[Ratters]

What is the ticket you get for? You are getting billed off your license plate, so the toll is being paid. So what is the violation? I never use my tag on my bike or in my car. They already have a system of sending out violation notices, I don't understand why cops are wasting the time writing tickets except maybe for people with paper plates still on their vehicles.

[JPM]

John, maybe I should have posed my question differently. Is it a good use of resources to do this is false negatives are a common phenomena? Does this mean that there are lots and lots of folks using the lanes and not getting nabbed by the camera enforcement?

I don't really know the numbers but I remember an article recently that said they lose millions of dollars from scofflaws. One guy the caught recently had been going through and owned in the thousands of dollars. I'm sure someone remembers the details of the story.

[Junkie]

I don't really know the numbers but I remember an article recently that said they lose millions of dollars from scofflaws. One guy the caught recently had been going through and owned in the thousands of dollars. I'm sure someone remembers the details of the story.Can't they keep him from registering his car the next year if he doesn't pay?

[JPM]

What is the ticket you get for? You are getting billed off your license plate, so the toll is being paid. So what is the violation? I never use my tag on my bike or in my car. They already have a system of sending out violation notices, I don't understand why cops are wasting the time writing tickets except maybe for people with paper plates still on their vehicles.



Refusal to Pay Tolls
23302. (a) It is unlawful for any person to refuse to pay tolls or other charges on any vehicular crossing or toll highway. It is prima facie evidence of a violation of this section for any person to enter upon any vehicular crossing without either lawful money of the United States in the person's immediate possession in an amount sufficient to pay the prescribed tolls or other charges due from that person or transponder or other electronic toll payment device associated with a valid Automatic Vehicle Identification account with a balance sufficient to pay those tolls.

(b) For vehicular crossings and toll highways that uses electronic toll collection as the only method of paying tolls or other charges, it is prima facie evidence of a violation of this section for any person to enter the vehicular crossing or toll highway without a transponder or other electronic toll payment device associated with a valid Automatic Vehicle Identification account with a balance sufficient to pay those tolls. If a transponder or other electronic toll payment device is used to pay tolls or other charges due, the device shall be located in, or on the vehicle in a location so as to be visible for the purpose of enforcement at all times when the vehicle is located on the vehicular crossing or toll highway. Where required by the operator of a vehicular crossing or toll highway, this requirement applies even if the operator offers free travel or nontoll accounts to certain classes of users.

Amended Ch. 1292, Stats. 1993. Effective January 1, 1994.
Amended Sec. 6, Ch. 739, Stats. 1995. Effective January 1, 1996.
Amended Sec. 73, Ch. 1154, Stats. 1996. Effective September 30, 1996.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23302.htm

[JPM]

Can't they keep him from registering his car the next year if he doesn't pay?

Yes they can. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40262.htm

[Amandyke]

I remember getting a few FasTrak violations for a guy that used to live at my apartment. When I went and looked up the violation via the number he had at least $7,000 in unpaid tolls and fines on his account. I have no idea why he thought it'd be a good idea, unless he went and sold the car or something.

[flying_hun]

If a transponder or other electronic toll payment device is used to pay tolls or other charges due, the device shall be located in, or on the vehicle in a location so as to be visible for the purpose of enforcement at all times when the vehicle is located on the vehicular crossing or toll highway.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23302.htm

It appears that the statute and the FAQ are at variance, but maybe I'm reading one or the other too literally.

Place toll tag in your front pocket, as it can be read through the material.
Place toll tag inside a cycle net (somewhere on top) that drapes over the gas tank.
Leave toll tag in the glove compartment, if applicable.

FWIW, I know the cameras work - at least sometimes - because I received a fine in the mail for a crossing for a plate that is registered to my FasTrak account. It suggests the cameras sometimes work, and the matching of plates to accounts sometimes does not. :laughing

[Razel]

Refusal to Pay Tolls
23302(b) For vehicular crossings and toll highways that uses electronic toll collection as the only method of paying tolls or other charges, it is prima facie evidence of a violation of this section for any person to enter the vehicular crossing or toll highway without a transponder or other electronic toll payment device associated with a valid Automatic Vehicle Identification account with a balance sufficient to pay those tolls. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23302.htmOk. So, maybe reading something more into this...but I'm asking (seriously) anyway.

Wouldn't a camera set up to read license plates (so the car with an account could be charged correctly) be considered an "other electronic toll payment device"? Or, is it up to the judge?

Edit: "...the device shall be located in, or on the vehicle in a location so as to be visible for the purpose of enforcement at all times when the vehicle is located on the vehicular crossing or toll highway. "
So, it can't be the camera as it's not in or on said vehicle. License plate itself doesn't qualify...

[metrorollah]

Ok. So, maybe reading something more into this...but I'm asking (seriously) anyway.

Wouldn't a camera set up to read license plates (so the car with an account could be charged correctly) be considered an "other electronic toll payment device"? Or, is it up to the judge?

Three points...

1) YOUR DEVICE - Recently a Santa Clara Superior Court judge determined that CHP officers are not properly trained to distinguish between devices that are or are not D.O.T. approved, specifically helmets. (Quigley v California Highway Patrol) Then he threw out of bunch of violations, and the CHP has filed an appeal. (California Highway Patrol v. Superior Court) If you do provide proof of having in your possession "an electronic device", say, a garage door opener, I'm sure CHP officers are not trained to determine whether it is electronically active or not with regards to a payment account.

2) THEIR DEVICE - My guess is that a judge would have to make his determination based on whether the camera system, which is NOT in your possession, is, in fact, a payment device, or a device used for law enforcement.

3) YOUR RIGHTS - The Bill of Rights (5th Amendment) prevents you from being tried twice for the same offense, its called double jeopardy. That would certainly work in any court. But its possible that you can be charged for two separate violations for the same act.

[paladinnorcal]

I just put mine in the map pouch of my tank bag, reads it fine. If I can use the carpool lane, I put it inside the mylar bag they provide and put that inside the tank bag. :thumbup

[flying_hun]

I just put mine in the map pouch of my tank bag, reads it fine.

I do the same, but it doesn't always read. :dunno

[AbsolutEnduser]

Ok, so JPM's post (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3781319&postcount=19) with the law pretty much clears it up. If you want to be safe, just carry the transponder in some pocket and you'll be safe. End of story.

Just curious, flying_hun, where have you seen CHP lasering folks at the toll booths? At the Bay Bridge I think this is nonexistent.. And what does amount to speeding?

I've seen the CHP lasering folks who are speeding through the toll booths,

[JPM]

I just put mine in the map pouch of my tank bag, reads it fine. If I can use the carpool lane, I put it inside the mylar bag they provide and put that inside the tank bag. :thumbup

I do the same thing and never had a problem. If you go through without a tag in your vehicle and you have an account, it reads your license plate and charges your account, you have no problem. However if you get stopped without one, you are in violation of the law posted and the terms of your agreement as it states you must have it; so the only person to blame is you.

[flying_hun]

Just curious, flying_hun, where have you seen CHP lasering folks at the toll booths? At the Bay Bridge I think this is nonexistent.. And what does amount to speeding?

Carquinez Bridge. The lanes at the toll booths are posted for 25 mph.

BTW, I comprehended John's post. My question was regarding whether the problem of FasTrak scofflaws justified an enforcement effort. If so, it suggests that the camera enforcement is ineffective.

[paladinnorcal]

Carquinez Bridge. The lanes at the toll booths are posted for 25 mph.

BTW, I comprehended John's post. My question was regarding whether the problem of FasTrak scofflaws justified an enforcement effort. If so, it suggests that the camera enforcement is ineffective.

Yes the camera enforcement was ineffective, but once they figured out how much money they were losing due to scofflaws, upgrading the cameras was a no brainer.

The $7.5 million project will replace outdated cameras with ones capable of capturing sharper images of the front and rear of scofflaws' cars. The work will begin this summer and be completed by next spring. Also this summer, the toll authority will recalibrate the FasTrak readers in all dedicated lanes.

Story at SF Gate (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/06/BAJQVEABO.DTL&hw=bridge+toll&sn=001&sc=1000)

[AbsolutEnduser]

Thanks paladin. I'd like to suggest that the "scofflaws" are also more mundanely illegal:
stolen plates,
missing plates -- both on personal cars, or on limos
completely hard to read plates or with dark glass over them