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what`s wrong here?

acer66

acer66

New member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Somewhere East
Moto(s)
00 SV650 & sometimes my GF`s SVS650
BARF perks
AMA #: 1085840
That`s me going into turn 2 on the streets of willow, apparently I hit a hard part, not sure if it was a peg (cfm rearsets) or my pipe since i dragged the mid pipe of my full Wileyco before.
What I am not so sure about is how much my body position was the cause, any thoughts on that?
Thank You
CP2_3592JPG.jpg

CP2_3596JPG.jpg
 
I'm really not an expert, but to me it looks to be an issue of simply too much lean angle. Hanging off would definitely allow you to take that turn with less lean angle, thus not dragging hard parts. Dragging hard parts isn't fun. Do you know if you lost the tires before hitting the hard parts or the other way around? Glad to see you are OK and still able to post.
 
+ 1 on too much lean angle.

To help with the dragging hard parts problem, try hanging off more. Looks like your butt is hanging off, but you also need to move your upper body off as well. From the picture, if you can put your head where your right mirror would be and rest your left arm on the tank, the bike will be more upright.
 
+2 garret! That almost looks like an SM move but you would have needed to have the rear tire sliding and counter steering =-) hope you and the bike are cool.
 
Hey... I'm no racer so you can probably discount everything I say.. but I've been riding for a long time.. I'm looking at feet.. knees, hands shoulders and head position.. in that order.

your body position is the issue.. Take a more commanding position on the bike.. meaning knees and crotch farther forward on the tank.. Don't sit, like your going for a hay ride.. hover over the seat pressing on your pegs..toes on pegs.. bend(cock) elbows.. crane neck into corner.. also.. your covering the front brake.

It's also possible you apex-ed early by coming into corner too narrow.. make a wider line.. From the position of your wrist, it also looks like you were not on throttle.. so you were slowing down or decelerating. all comes back to slow in.. fast out.

Hope this helps and your okay.
 
A. How much do you weigh?
B. Is the suspension still stock?
C. If your answer is "over 170 pounds" and "yes", that is what happened.
 
Thanks, I came out ok, T2 at the streets is a slow turn for me, my 3 weeks old suit took most of the beating and I was back on the track after bending a few pieces back in place on my bike :)

That crash happened last year and I asked a question here and there but I never really studied this crash it till I found the Crash Analysis section here.

paroxysm & 2000R6, the more I look at the picture the more too leaned over it looks.

Funny thing that you mention SM hapamoto, I was actually told to ride it more like a SM with pushing the bike further away from me, while that worked for me and I was told I might want to try a SM the way I ride,
I was pulled out at Star School for doing that and they insisted that I should pivot around the tank only, keep my butt in and have my lower arms parallel to the tank.
Which is a valid point because I have less room for error riding a naked like a SM I guess.

Ironbutt you have very valid points too bad they all lead to riders error ;)
I cover the brakes all time except when full throttle and
I have a problem due to my size (I think) to get real close to the tank.
But my hay ride (I like that term) position seems to be the problem.

afm199
A. Waaaaaay over 170 lbs
B. Suspension is not stock, front and rear is set up for my weight and riding style
Looks like all blame on me.

I now also have a sv with clip ons and it seems that my body position is better please check this http://www.flickr.com/photos/capfacsurf/2270798446/in/set-72157603925984397/ pic out and tell me what you think.

Thank You
 
Agree with all points made except regarding covering your brakes. There is nothing wrong with doing that at all. I've ridden for almost 30 years covering clutch and brake every minute on every bike I've owned and I've never once had a moment because of it.
 
Archimedes said:
Agree with all points made except regarding covering your brakes. There is nothing wrong with doing that at all. I've ridden for almost 30 years covering clutch and brake every minute on every bike I've owned and I've never once had a moment because of it.
Click to expand...

I only realized that I am doing that after seeing a bunch of different pictures of me riding,
on almost all pictures I cover brake and clutch.

Thanks for all the input.
 
Acer66, that photo is surreal - you on the ground with the dust cloud in front of you. I'm glad are ok to post. I agree with the above and would say you have way too much lean angle, especially on DOT tires. I would also suggest that it looks like you are too far forward on the tank. When I used to crowd the tank, I had a bad habit of shifting my ass forward and off the seat - leaving my outside leg in nearly the same position as it was when I came into the turn. This caused my inside leg to shift forward where your leg is now - rather than outward, enabling you to hang off. I found that when I was that far forward, it seemed to load the front end - and when I did get back on the gas, would upset the bike when my body slid back a bit more, where it should have been to start with. I try to keep my body back when I turn in - this gives me more room to work and get my body where I want it to be. I just added about 1/2" of foam to the front part of my R1 seat, to give me a little more bike to squeeze with my legs and keep my body back without loading the front end.

Hope some of that helps.
 
Archimedes said:
Agree with all points made except regarding covering your brakes. There is nothing wrong with doing that at all. I've ridden for almost 30 years covering clutch and brake every minute on every bike I've owned and I've never once had a moment because of it.
Click to expand...

I agree but.. how you practice is how you perform under pressure.. right?

so if he covers that front brake normally on the street and then gets into a situation where he's under 'duress' on the track.. and the bike gets giggy on him... first muscle memory thing to do is to squeeze that front lever.. s'okay under normal circumstances.. but raise the speed, lower the angle and add an unfamiliar place.. whammo... More $$ for Parts Unlimited.

Do you agree? I'm not really debating covering the brake.. I'm debating why he's covering the brake. It's more of a mind set thing now that I think about it.

Is he stopping like he does on the street? Or is he leading the front brake in while under throttle? I cover the brake too.. for both reasons.. but again.. I'm not a racer, I'm a "wanna-be"...but I'm think I'm on the right track, no pun intended.. Same skill.. different mindset. or is it?
 
27007RT, thank you, the guy who took the pics said after I passed him he was looking for the next rider when he heard me going down and turned around and just started shooting, the whole "glory" found here http://picasaweb.google.com/acer1966/SlippingSliding

I actually started to stay further back on the seat because it feels better.

Ironbutt you have a another valid point about covering the brakes,
I rely heavily on my engine brake, only coming from long straight away going into a tight turn I use the brakes a lot.

I can recall at least 2 times on the track when my bike started to shake but I didn`t grab the brakes, on the street I have the brakes covered to shave off a split second when that moments comes, I might try to ride without covering the brakes on the track.

Which brings me to the question, does nobody cover their brakes on the track?
 
Ironbutt said:
I agree but.. how you practice is how you perform under pressure.. right?

so if he covers that front brake normally on the street and then gets into a situation where he's under 'duress' on the track.. and the bike gets giggy on him... first muscle memory thing to do is to squeeze that front lever.. s'okay under normal circumstances.. but raise the speed, lower the angle and add an unfamiliar place.. whammo... More $$ for Parts Unlimited.

Do you agree? I'm not really debating covering the brake.. I'm debating why he's covering the brake. It's more of a mind set thing now that I think about it.
Click to expand...

I disagree actually. I cover the brake because I think it allows me to be more precise with my braking under pressure than I would if my fingers were on the bar. I think I have much better feel for the lever pressure and can ease in and out of the brakes much more smoothly than I could if I had to first find the handle, then apply pressure, then judge feel, etc.

I don't think the urge to mash the brakes has any correlation to whether you cover your brake or not. Inexperienced riders will grab a handful of brake whereever their hand starts out.

For me, it's so much of a habit that whenever I put my hands on any motorcycle or bicycle for that matter, I alway have two fingers on each handle. I even do it when I'm loading and unloading my bike from my truck. It's the only way I know how to hold the handlebars.
 
Archimedes said:
......
I don't think the urge to mash the brakes has any correlation to whether you cover your brake or not. Inexperienced riders will grab a handful of brake whereever their hand starts out.

For me, it's so much of a habit that whenever I put my hands on any motorcycle or bicycle for that matter, I always have two fingers on each handle. I even do it when I'm loading and unloading my bike from my truck. It's the only way I know how to hold the handlebars.
Click to expand...

Wow....eeerie. (Spooky music here).
I think exactly the same way. I want to touch as many controls as possible at one time. Second nature at this point.

BACK to topic.

I think your new position is better. But, I notice two things:
One - the upper body is still dead-center. There is more weight in your upper body, move it over. "Kiss the mirror."

Two - Your knee/leg position is great, IF you are on a MotoGP bike. You are not. Turn the foot to point out (toward the corner more). The knee will point more that way. I have the same problem.
 
First, ya look great, but for THAT BIKE, too much lean angle. It's not clear to me if you can hang off farther and feel good enough for those bars.

I'd like to see ya on a real race bike. You'd hang farther and fell better.
 
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Note the rider's position on above photo 282, he looks easy, and lean not much different than yours.
 
I disagree on too much lean angle. When I straighten the pic, it looks fine. HOWEVER, that pipe looks low and could have dragged/ levered the rear tire off the ground. you'd likely know though if it did that. I've hit my sold peg on curbing and gone down...and it happened QUICK, but I knew I was screwed when i turned in. Do you remember what happened right before the pic? What you were doing? What the bike was doing? Were you on line, off line? What was different from that lap to the next? What tires are you running? how old are they? What pressures? Etc...

RE: covering the front brake. I've done this forever and continue to do so. If anything it makes me slow, but not crash...brakes don't help you go quicker!

RE: bodyposition. While important, poor body position usually isn't the cause for the crash, something else is. You don't look so bad here in the pic either...so I'm doubting that's it. We STILL haven't found the answer yet, I think...let's keep working at it.
 
Look at the pipe on the OP's bike, then look at the pipe in Macky's photo's. There is your answer.
 
Your butt's off the seat but your head's over the gas tank. Push the bike away from you and get your chin out over your wrist. I can't say what caused your crash, but just based on the picture, it looks like you could be going the same speed with less lean angle, which would definitely help.
 
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