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Old 03-09-2018, 10:46 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by thedub View Post
Step 1: Trim the fat.
We don't need like 5 classes for 600s and little bikes. We don't need classes that only have like 2-5 racers each round. We don't need a separate class for every odd ball bike that someone wants to race. Get rid of all that garbage.

100% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We had 2-3 classes this past year with only 1-2 riders, this was noticeable at the banquet where there was championship awards for those riders. That is absolute non-sense.

That is valuable track time and space that could be used for other classes or extending race or practice time.
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:09 AM   #77
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Some classes wax/ wane depending on who shows up and what bikes are being sold. All of the super small classes run on the grid with other (fuller) classes. Not that I don't agree, but that's how it's currently being ran.
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:37 PM   #78
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in order to get down to a 1 day race schedule, I bet the AFM would have to cut 3-5 races. that could be a lot of classes. WERA and CVMA run 14 and 15 races in a day w/ 2 practice rounds in the morning. but they have fewer racers, so all the stuff before and after each race goes faster. and cutting races is a losing battle w/ time - as more ppl enter other classes or if classes get added to races, the time to grid takes longer still.

the "extra" classes that AFM has compared to other clubs are Legacy, 450, and F1. u could prob cut F1 without pissing ppl off. not sure about the rest though. and even then, I have no idea if the schedule could be re-organized to cut 3 races w/ all those classes gone.

IMO a 1 day schedule is a very tough ask if u want to keep nearly all the existing AFM racers.

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We don't have exit interviews so it's hard to know what racers don't return. The majority of the time, based on vocal questions are due to finances or life issue; not how the club is ran/ proclivities of the race day. That's not to say we can't always do better, but it is to say that the racing seems to be the most important thing and IMO, the AFM does an excellent job at that part.

We have helicopters, ambulances, a crew with 20 years experience for many, quality tracks and trophies and overall, a very well respected club in the national club stage. So yeah...when you finish an AFM race, it's an achievement. Smiles.

Am I concerned that racers don't show up? yeah, every single event.
im going to assume u meant "why racers don't return". I agree, thats difficult. but if u see a decrease in Saturday or Formula race participation this year on average, perhaps we can find a correlation or guess at the cause.
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Last edited by stangmx13; 03-09-2018 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:03 PM   #79
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Why are these changes happening a week before Round 1?

Give all races a "time or laps, whichever comes first" rule. If there is a red flag during the race, and time runs out, the race ends. This way the other classes do not get their races shortened. If there is enough time at the end of the day, the red flag race can continue, or choose to have the results as they stand.

What are the low turn-out classes? How many classes are there? How many classes have been added this year, and how many were cancelled? I counted 69 individual race classes from 2017 Results.

AFM really needs to look into owning Friday Test with Five 20-minute sessions, then race on Saturday and Sunday. 2 included practice groups on Saturday for those racing Saturday, and 2 included practice sessions on Sunday for those racing Sunday.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:32 PM   #80
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Why are these changes happening a week before Round 1?
What are you talking about? This thread is a month old. The new schedule was finalized at the Feb board meeting and announced the next day. I'm sure it was in the works long before that.

There are no changes happening a week before Rd 1; we are just giving Berto shit and throwing ideas around because that's what you do on BARF in the off-season.
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:26 PM   #81
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I was at the last WERA race at auto club. They get things done a bit quicker by just running fast and loose. For example I was in a race where a bike blew up, huge cloud of smoke, and they didn't stop the race to check for oil, where I think AFM would have. Also, no lunch break for flaggers. I do not want that kind of efficiency.
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:41 PM   #82
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I was at the last WERA race at auto club. They get things done a bit quicker by just running fast and loose. For example I was in a race where a bike blew up, huge cloud of smoke, and they didn't stop the race to check for oil, where I think AFM would have. Also, no lunch break for flaggers. I do not want that kind of efficiency.
So u know there was oil on the track? Or u know that WERA didn’t have more info than u, being a race org and all? WERA has been running races for a long time. They know their shit.

Lunch breaks are a waste of time.
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Old 03-11-2018, 07:55 AM   #83
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In 2018, the board has decided to try something new for the club; Saturday qualifying sessions for Formula 1, 2, 3, 4, and FP. Additionally, these races are now in the middle of the day, culminating with FP and the FP winner's circle. We've talked about giving all non FP formula classes an extra 2 laps each to further separate the prominence of Formula classes in the AFM, but we have not made that determination yet.
Berto,

Has a determination been made on exactly how many laps all non FP qualifying formula classes will be given?

Exactly how many laps will FP be given?

Exactly how many laps will all other classes be given?

Sonoma Raceway: How many laps, same questions as above, will be given at Sonoma?

Last edited by scratchpad; 03-11-2018 at 08:00 AM.. Reason: Sonoma Raceway
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Old 03-11-2018, 06:00 PM   #84
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So u know there was oil on the track? Or u know that WERA didn’t have more info than u, being a race org and all? WERA has been running races for a long time. They know their shit.

Lunch breaks are a waste of time.
There was no oil on the track, that was shown by the fact that no one fell on the next lap.

Race director was unaware that a bike had blown up. I know that because I was the one who told him about it. All they knew was that a rider had not come around, and that no one knew where he was. They had no idea why he didn't come around, but continued the race anyway, with a rider missing. The flagger at the nearest corner didn't tell race direction that a bike blew up.

It wasn't small potatoes either, look here: http://www.caliphotography.com/photo...74#page=thumbs

The flaggers deserve a lunch break. I think the current schedule of one hour might be too much. But how about 20-30 minutes?
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:28 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Holeshot View Post
In 2018, the board has decided to try something new for the club; Saturday qualifying sessions for Formula 1, 2, 3, 4, and FP. Additionally, these races are now in the middle of the day, culminating with FP and the FP winner's circle. We've talked about giving all non FP formula classes an extra 2 laps each to further separate the prominence of Formula classes in the AFM, but we have not made that determination yet. Regardless, the new schedule layout and updated Formula classes will make a race day geared more towards bikes in class championships and Formula championships where we push competition among a wider range of bikes within each Formula championship.

I'm really excited to see how this all works out, but it's something we've talked about for years and are finally taking a shot at!

Long Live the AFM, 2018!!!
Prominence? Really? What has changed other than qualifying for these "premier" Formula classes?
You want to push competition then add more laps instead of baiting it. Thatll make them more prominant and premier.
Whats the reason for qualifying if its still the same race with 6 laps. Only thing different is one has to pay for Sat. practice in order to grid qualify for the race.

But, you are adding more laps (12) to FP every round. Good to see the push in competition in FP when more laps are added.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:05 AM   #86
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Lunch breaks are a waste of time.
Lunch break is a 100% necessity for all the workers. Do you really want all the workers to be hangry?

A typical AFM worker's day on Race Sunday starts at about 7AM. If things go well, it ends at about 4-5 PM. Are you really suggesting leaving all the corner workers out in the weeds for a minimum of 9 hours straight?

The AFM grids are quite a bit bigger than WERA. Timing and scoring need the time to allow for changes to the afternoon races and to take a mental break. It's a stressful job and if you think it's as simple as letting the computer system take over, you are sorely mistaken. I have yet to see a race where all the transponders worked (riders don't charge them, forget to put them on, etc) and the process of figuring out who isn't pinging and then tracking them every lap is a huge PITA. If it's a multiple wave race, good luck.

If the lunch break went away, I suspect you would lose at least half the workers.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:55 PM   #87
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Prominence? Really? What has changed other than qualifying for these "premier" Formula classes?
You want to push competition then add more laps instead of baiting it. Thatll make them more prominant and premier.
Agree and we talked about this before doing qualifying. The push wasn't there for a few more laps, but we can still add them in round 3 or 4.

Vik, good explanation. We don't want Hangry workers!
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:23 AM   #88
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Agree and we talked about this before doing qualifying. The push wasn't there for a few more laps, but we can still add them in round 3 or 4.

Vik, good explanation. We don't want Hangry workers!
hold on hold on...I'm racing round 3 and its been a while since I threw a leg over the bike...lets not run around adding laps to races all willy nilly here...
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:21 PM   #89
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hold on hold on...I'm racing round 3 and its been a while since I threw a leg over the bike...lets not run around adding laps to races all willy nilly here...
I'm in my 40's...you think I WANT more laps? Let's do a relay if we add more laps...just for us.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:05 PM   #90
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I'm in my 50's and want more laps. Some of the rabbits fade, and some of the turtles will pass them up.

Laps or time for a race. For example, 8 laps or 20 minutes, whichever comes first. If there is a red flag, and we run out of time for that race, the race is final. If we have time at the end of the day to continue with a red-flagged races it will continue. Something to think about.
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