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Old 12-15-2017, 09:33 PM   #16
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Here's how I see it. If you sign up for a Sunday race, you get a practice session. Why is the same not true for a Saturday race?
Sunday there is only one practice session and there is no way for the racers to cheat the system by going out for more than one session.

If we could trust that the riders would only go out for one session then I would be all for it, but we can't. We have people smuggling friends/family/other racers in to avoid the gate fees, so how are we supposed to pretend that everyone will be honest about practice?

Regulate it you are saying? The tech stickers are tough to see. Even with the slower speeds that we have asked riders to keep as they roll past the tower we have had people who have not paid for practice sneak by...and crash. Our insurance does not cover that.

Do we make people come to a complete stop before they go out to verify that they have paid?

We could say that they only they only get the first session, but they would bitch about the track being cold.

The last session?

They would bitch about it being too short.

The board is always open to suggestions, but they typically come as a thread on BARF or a facebook post, not an email or an appearance at the meeting.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:35 AM   #17
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Frozenuts, u ever do any work in customer service? The main ideas of your last post were solid, and it would have been nice if u posted that a lot sooner in this thread. That info could have steering this thread in a much more positive direction IMO. But shit, that whole post came across wrong.
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:45 AM   #18
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Has AFM looked into offering a Friday Test Day of a race weekend? 3 groups of 20 minute sessions per hour. That's 7, 20 minute sessions per group. Loads of track time. This would allow all day Saturday and Sunday for racing with maybe 2 practice sessions in the mornings.

Exploit those that have gone out for practice without paying...
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:43 AM   #19
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Because itís not allowing an adjustment for the conditions on the day. Hot greasy track, cold track, dirty track, new track. Gearing changes, suspension changes. Removing any nervousness.

This is an athletic sport and in any other situation, warmup is normal. It can also prevent a muscle injury.

How could you view it as not dangerous.?
I guess because I've done it multiple times.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:24 PM   #20
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Frozenuts, u ever do any work in customer service? The main ideas of your last post were solid, and it would have been nice if u posted that a lot sooner in this thread. That info could have steering this thread in a much more positive direction IMO. But shit, that whole post came across wrong.
I have actually won awards for customer service.

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Has AFM looked into offering a Friday Test Day of a race weekend? 3 groups of 20 minute sessions per hour. That's 7, 20 minute sessions per group. Loads of track time. This would allow all day Saturday and Sunday for racing with maybe 2 practice sessions in the mornings.

Exploit those that have gone out for practice without paying...
I am not sure if the club ever has. I am not sure what the cost of a third day would look like for the club or what the track day providers would say about us taking what is usually a pretty packed day from their wallet.

In a three group format, one of those would have to be for Practice group 5 people only. I say this because of the massive amount of complaints that Barb gets whenever she tries to combine groups 4 and 5. Even a slow guy like me bitches with combined sessions as there are just too many people out on the course to get more than one clean lap in. I am usually in the way.

Given that we have gone to qualifying to set the grid for FP, I don't see the fast guys buying into only two sessions on Saturday.

Fridays can be hard for people to get off, and those coming from Washington and Oregon might even need to take an extra day to get down here refreshed and ready to ride. I know at least one of the registration girls often can only take a half day on Friday as well.

I'm not saying that it is a bad idea, just that there is probably more to it than just adding a day. Something to consider.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:05 PM   #21
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Given that we have gone to qualifying to set the grid for FP, I don't see the fast guys buying into only two sessions on Saturday.
Why not? Practice is not needed
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:42 PM   #22
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Why not? Practice is not needed
Open throttle facking poosie.
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Old 12-17-2017, 10:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey View Post
Has AFM looked into offering a Friday Test Day of a race weekend? 3 groups of 20 minute sessions per hour. That's 7, 20 minute sessions per group. Loads of track time. This would allow all day Saturday and Sunday for racing with maybe 2 practice sessions in the mornings.

Exploit those that have gone out for practice without paying...
Great Idea! How do we make it happen? Show up to a meeting? Vote new president? Somebody help hear at the AFM. Saturday needs to be two 10 minus practice sessions and a grid positions qualifier, It builds uo excitement for fans, family, and media,

It feels like the start of the batte of resistance in star wars. Remember, champions make many mistakes and what makes them champions if learning from those mistakes.

I would like to request the AFM take a look at whats going from the nose bleed seats in a stadium, I would love to help being a new racer perspective.

Just need to know when and where to be for this meeting
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Old 12-17-2017, 11:13 PM   #24
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Everyone needs help at the track.

Everyone.

Me, you, Rossi... Everyone.

The reason that the AFM has Saturday practice is because we as a club realize this.

Since we do not own Buttonwillow, Thunderhill, and Sears Point, we need to charge for the practice in order to be able to keep doing this year after year.

You want to practice yet do not want to pay for it. Sadly, that is not how the club's insurance policy works so if you need more than your outlap (and the outlap of any other race) you will need to put up the cash to do so.

All it takes is one idiot to go out and wad their shit exiting the carousel when they are not supposed to be on track for the club's insurance to get dinged.

Nobody wants to be that guy.
The point is that it's a race weekend and there should be more racing than practice on Sat/sunday. Sat could be one or two 10 minute short practices, and one 15-20 minute grid position qualifier. Done by 10:00am and more racing could happen (adding revenue for why we are there........to race) How about the premiere classes race both days for points and title? FP, 600 SP, 300SP, Formula II or III. The revenue would probably net even or higher and get more riders wanting to race. But first, the classes need to be rewritten to make them easier to understand with a higher entry level. You will shoot me down for this, but it makes sense to combine 450 triple and 650/lightweight twins into one class and fill the grid bases off qualifying. It could be called lightweight shootout and race both days. Same goes for the 250cc - 500cc classes. Just capture them all and call it ultra light weight shootout and race Saturday and Sunday, Heck make all shootout classes 8-10 laps and bring some prestige.

Take a chance. the AFM has nothing to lose at this point and they need to remodel and rebrand.

I would be happy to consult in meetings on the matter.

One more thing, in other sports series I am involve in, the promotors of a single event are required to visit 2 other promotors events to learn and create a uniformity.

As a new racer coming in, its like going into best buy to purchase a new TV. Total option payalasis that prevent a person for moving forward. AFM, keep the class options simple/less, fill the grids, sat practice is one +qualifying, and you will see an entry and revenue improvement.

Use the IN and Out model....Small menu, fast service, lots of good food food, good price, volumes of happy customers.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:00 AM   #25
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Lightweight twins includes 300's, so combining that with 650's is not a good idea. Add triples to it and then the twins class is gone. Kawi pays contingency for that class on the basis that it is twins.

Again, board meetings are where these ideas become reality not BARF.

The meeting information is on the website. Keep in mind it is way to late to make any changes for this coming season and some of these ideas have been discussed at length already.
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Old 12-19-2017, 02:32 PM   #26
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The point is that it's a race weekend and there should be more racing than practice on Sat/sunday. Sat could be one or two 10 minute short practices, and one 15-20 minute grid position qualifier. Done by 10:00am and more racing could happen (adding revenue for why we are there........to race) How about the premiere classes race both days for points and title? FP, 600 SP, 300SP, Formula II or III. The revenue would probably net even or higher and get more riders wanting to race. But first, the classes need to be rewritten to make them easier to understand with a higher entry level. You will shoot me down for this, but it makes sense to combine 450 triple and 650/lightweight twins into one class and fill the grid bases off qualifying. It could be called lightweight shootout and race both days. Same goes for the 250cc - 500cc classes. Just capture them all and call it ultra light weight shootout and race Saturday and Sunday, Heck make all shootout classes 8-10 laps and bring some prestige.

Take a chance. the AFM has nothing to lose at this point and they need to remodel and rebrand.

I would be happy to consult in meetings on the matter.

One more thing, in other sports series I am involve in, the promotors of a single event are required to visit 2 other promotors events to learn and create a uniformity.

As a new racer coming in, its like going into best buy to purchase a new TV. Total option payalasis that prevent a person for moving forward. AFM, keep the class options simple/less, fill the grids, sat practice is one +qualifying, and you will see an entry and revenue improvement.

Use the IN and Out model....Small menu, fast service, lots of good food food, good price, volumes of happy customers.
The reason turnout is low is simple: racing is expensive. Figure out how to make a rear tire last longer, and then you'll have something we could use.
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Old 12-20-2017, 09:21 AM   #27
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As a new racer coming in, its like going into best buy to purchase a new TV. Total option payalasis that prevent a person for moving forward. AFM, keep the class options simple/less, fill the grids, sat practice is one +qualifying, and you will see an entry and revenue improvement.

Use the IN and Out model....Small menu, fast service, lots of good food food, good price, volumes of happy customers.

I honestly don't know how well that would work. With the wide variety of bikes out there, I'll be perfectly honest, the last couple years it was really nice to have at least one class where my older bike (more affordable to own as a newb racer) was competitive.

I think a lot of other racers feel the same way - with only a few options, chances are, unless you're the person with the money to build the nice bikes you're going to struggle to be competitive. A variety of classes gives everyone a class they can be competitive in regardless of their bike.

I know that as a novice, it was awfully nice to have a reasonable shot at a couple trophies I could take home on a 9+year old bike for all the money I was spending to be there. Pretty sure there are a number of racers who feel the same way.

Having this option got the hook set. Kept me around long enough to have an idea of what I might be capable of, and NOW has me making a much bigger financial investment - NOT something I was in a position (or willing) to do as a newb coming in.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:18 AM   #28
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Great Idea! How do we make it happen? Show up to a meeting? Vote new president? Somebody help hear at the AFM. Saturday needs to be two 10 minus practice sessions and a grid positions qualifier, It builds uo excitement for fans, family, and media,

It feels like the start of the batte of resistance in star wars. Remember, champions make many mistakes and what makes them champions if learning from those mistakes.

I would like to request the AFM take a look at whats going from the nose bleed seats in a stadium, I would love to help being a new racer perspective.

Just need to know when and where to be for this meeting
Write up a proposal and bring it to the next AFM meeting. Be sure and get five or ten guys who support, it will almost guarantee that it gets serious attention.

However, don't expect anything to happen if you have one idea that you think is a great one.
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:01 PM   #29
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Write up a proposal and bring it to the next AFM meeting. Be sure and get five or ten guys who support, it will almost guarantee that it gets serious attention.

However, don't expect anything to happen if you have one idea that you think is a great one.
True Dat! Seldom if ever does anything in AFM happen from just a BARF thread. Only time in my 10 years affiliation with AFM that I can remember anything coming to fruition from just a BARF thread was the genesis of the AFM $99 NRS program back in 2013. I was one of the guilty parties suggesting it in the AFM Marketing thread that was running and IIRC it was Berto and Eric who took it on to the AFM BOD from the BARF thread and made it a reality. A real Cinderella story

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Old 12-20-2017, 09:23 PM   #30
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I have asked about endurance racing, also I have asked about changing practice format. 6 or 7 short sessions are no fun. I seem to get more practice with my tire warmers than riding. I guess if enough money is lost, something will change.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/fo...d.php?t=517650
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