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Old 02-19-2018, 02:22 PM   #16
thedub
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Separate flags? I thought we were doing same flag, but Novice grid started one row back from Experts. Or does it vary by class? I know my Novice 450 grid launches on the same flag as Experts.
It varies by class and even by the weekend. Barb uses her judgement for each individual race. Could be separate flags one round, and all together the next round. We had it both ways in F1 last season.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:08 PM   #17
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Ahh... That sounds much safer.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:32 PM   #18
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This is great news! Yes, more laps please
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:56 PM   #19
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My question was for the races with qualifying.
Let's say a novice rider was third fastest in qualifying.
Would they still start their novice wave or grid up where they qualified?
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:02 AM   #20
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Just a thought: I think if you get both novice and expert in a session for qualifying it will be really hard to get a clean lap because of the traffic. What if it was just qualifying for the Expert classes in the Formula races (of course depending on entrances) and then they would grid up depending on qualifying times. The novice would grid up behind like they have always done behind the experts depending on points like normal.

This would give the Novice's more incentive to bump up to expert, especially the faster Novices who are "sandbagging" in Novice. I think that would be a better overall experience for the races and the safety factor.

I'm just looking at it from a racers standpoint of how it would work without actually experiencing it yet. But since F1 and F4 qualifying are together, you get a Novice F4 racer and a top Expert F1 racer on the course at the same time and those two speed deltas might pose a slight issue.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:11 AM   #21
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Just a thought: I think if you get both novice and expert in a session for qualifying it will be really hard to get a clean lap because of the traffic. What if it was just qualifying for the Expert classes in the Formula races (of course depending on entrances) and then they would grid up depending on qualifying times. The novice would grid up behind like they have always done behind the experts depending on points like normal.

This would give the Novice's more incentive to bump up to expert, especially the faster Novices who are "sandbagging" in Novice. I think that would be a better overall experience for the races and the safety factor.

I'm just looking at it from a racers standpoint of how it would work without actually experiencing it yet. But since F1 and F4 qualifying are together, you get a Novice F4 racer and a top Expert F1 racer on the course at the same time and those two speed deltas might pose a slight issue.
I'm in agreement with Rob on this one. 10 minutes with that congestion is a bit much.

So are the qualifying sessions limited to just Expert? If so I think that is awesome. It adds that added element of expert being a more superior class with extra perks (10 minutes).
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:34 AM   #22
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Either that or maybe launch the experts first and the novices a minute after. Coordinating that might be tough though
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:37 AM   #23
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What Rob said, and what Rob said too.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:19 AM   #24
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Either that or maybe launch the experts first and the novices a minute after. Coordinating that might be tough though
That in theory works but what will end up happening are the faster experts will run into the tail end of the slower novice guys after their first lap. Congestion still will be there.

Now the argument will be made the experts should be able to slice their way through safely and what not but if this is qualifying that can be the difference of a row or two on the starting grid and a loss of some important points for the class.

I'm not on the board and nor do I want to be i'm just a forum racer looking at it from the outside in on this conversation.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:26 AM   #25
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I think Rob has a pretty solid idea there, and I don't have a horse in the race on this one.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:37 AM   #26
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finding space on track to avoid traffic and put in a hot lap is a skill. 10min is short but entirely adequate for it. most pro racers give themselves about 10min to post their best time after they've come in and changed the rear tire, so its totally doable. some racers will suck at it, get stuck in traffic, and post terrible lap times. other racers will find the gap or get a tow from faster riders and post great lap times. if u want to be good at QP, ride smart and learn from your mistakes.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:44 AM   #27
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Head down to the CVMA series at Chuckwalla to see how it is done. They use this format and it is awesome!

You only need one fast lap
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:05 AM   #28
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Head down to the CVMA series at Chuckwalla to see how it is done. They use this format and it is awesome!

You only need one fast lap
I'm going down this weekend. What I like is that they keep the qualifying sessions within the scope of the race... Expert and Novice have their own qualifying sessions.

Quote:
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finding space on track to avoid traffic and put in a hot lap is a skill. 10min is short but entirely adequate for it. most pro racers give themselves about 10min to post their best time after they've come in and changed the rear tire, so its totally doable. some racers will suck at it, get stuck in traffic, and post terrible lap times. other racers will find the gap or get a tow from faster riders and post great lap times. if u want to be good at QP, ride smart and learn from your mistakes.
Fully agreed... but most racers are in with similar classes and similar times as a whole.

One way to look at it would be like having 4 separate classes out there for 10 minutes.

F1 Expert:
F1 Novice
F4 Expert
F4 Novice

10 minutes on the track with the potential of 20 seconds (being realistic but its likely a larger gap) per lap difference between the faster F1 guys and the slower F4 guys? You're asking a lot out of a club racer.

You'll get some frustrated experts who don't want to take someone out and will complain about how they could have been a second or two faster had they not had to avoid the slower folks. While the slower folks will likely get spooked initially because they aren't used to being overtaken so closely and at those speeds the faster folks are carrying. (speculation of course)

Now if we eliminate 2 of those classes (novice) those 10 minutes become more realistic would keep the level of intensity up that it seems Berto and the AFM is going for. Not to mention safer for all riders involved.

Again just outside looking in... and I do race and will be joining Expert this year. However for the purpose of this thread I'm just playing forum racer because its fun and I love the idea of qualifying for the "premier" classes.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:19 AM   #29
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Just a thought: I think if you get both novice and expert in a session for qualifying it will be really hard to get a clean lap because of the traffic. ... But since F1 and F4 qualifying are together, you get a Novice F4 racer and a top Expert F1 racer on the course at the same time and those two speed deltas might pose a slight issue.
Oh there is no doubt it's going to be nearly impossible to get a clean lap. You are going to have 450/650s going between ~2:10 - 1:58/lap (Thill obv) sharing the track with 600/750s going ~2:00 - 1:54.

I predict it will be most frustrating for the fastest F4 guys. They will have slower 600 riders blowing by them on the straights, then holding them up in the corners.

But that's just gonna part of the game. Forget the idea of getting a fully clean lap. The trick will be to put down a reasonably fast lap in traffic.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:23 AM   #30
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Now if we eliminate 2 of those classes (novice) those 10 minutes become more realistic would keep the level of intensity up that it seems Berto and the AFM is going for. Not to mention safer for all riders involved.
I like the idea of only having qualifying for the experts. Getting to participate in qualifying would be a perk of being an expert and hopefully incentivize sandbagging novices to bump up.
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