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Almost Thrown On 680

C

Cato85

I need more cow bell
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Location
Sunnyvale, California
Moto(s)
2003 CBR954RR (Ophiuchus)
Name
Phil
Ok, so I know this isnt a crash but i was looking for critique from fellow barfers.
Let me start of by saying i have ridden dirt for many years but as for street this is my third year.
the scene: im on 680 E splitting #1 & 2 lanes :ride (carpool & fastlane) traffic is dead stopped im moving at about 25-30 mph. traffis starts to crawl 20ft at less than 5 mph. im just passing two cars on either side of me and the car ahead of the one im passing in the #2 lane decides to A: not look for lane change B: just yanks that dame wheel C: floors it to get in between two cars in the #1 lane, just as im coming up to their drivers quarter panel. with no time to stop or to turn normally, I jam up on the rear brake throw the rear out, dip the front end left as hard as i could to get in front of the car in the #1 lane i was passing. so now i have the rear kicked out to the right, headlight is pointing at K-rail (concrete center divide) dead on, bars are turned all the way locked right. i had to psyche myself up to let go of the rear brake because of the bucking bull syndrome almost got bucked off. my arse came atleast 4" off seat.:wow And all this literally happend in 20-30 feet. got a little blue from the car on my exhaust pipe (stock) smallest little thing too, looks like a little kid put a little bit of crayola blue less than 1/2" long 1/8" wide stripe. in my head this was the only course of action. heres the break down, no space behind offending car to drop behind, plenty of space in #1 lane for me and the offending car although i had to cut it close to the car i was passing in the #1 originally. helmet damn near tapped his front corner lens.

Any ideas on how i could have done this differently, once again i had no time to slow, avoid, pass. no space either. maybe if you have had an experience with this or just some critique would be great. no damage other than the blue, although my arse went numb from the pucker :laughing thank you all, this web site is an invaluable tool for all riders. thanks barf :wave
 
Cato85 said:
Ok, so I know this isnt a crash but i was looking for critique from fellow barfers.
Let me start of by saying i have ridden dirt for many years but as for street this is my third year.
the scene: im on 680 E splitting #1 & 2 lanes :ride (carpool & fastlane) traffic is dead stopped im moving at about 25-30 mph. traffis starts to crawl 20ft at less than 5 mph. im just passing two cars on either side of me and the car ahead of the one im passing in the #2 lane decides to A: not look for lane change B: just yanks that dame wheel C: floors it to get in between two cars in the #1 lane, just as im coming up to their drivers quarter panel. with no time to stop or to turn normally, I jam up on the rear brake throw the rear out, dip the front end left as hard as i could to get in front of the car in the #1 lane i was passing. so now i have the rear kicked out to the right, headlight is pointing at K-rail (concrete center divide) dead on, bars are turned all the way locked right. i had to psyche myself up to let go of the rear brake because of the bucking bull syndrome almost got bucked off. my arse came atleast 4" off seat.:wow And all this literally happend in 20-30 feet. got a little blue from the car on my exhaust pipe (stock) smallest little thing too, looks like a little kid put a little bit of crayola blue less than 1/2" long 1/8" wide stripe. in my head this was the only course of action. heres the break down, no space behind offending car to drop behind, plenty of space in #1 lane for me and the offending car although i had to cut it close to the car i was passing in the #1 originally. helmet damn near tapped his front corner lens.

Any ideas on how i could have done this differently, once again i had no time to slow, avoid, pass. no space either. maybe if you have had an experience with this or just some critique would be great. no damage other than the blue, although my arse went numb from the pucker :laughing thank you all, this web site is an invaluable tool for all riders. thanks barf :wave
Click to expand...

How about not jamming on the rear brake?
 
I've ridden dirt for many years and i am used to tossing out the rear. i have played with the whole trail braking thing on my street bike, what made it a viable solution in my mind was i could turn sharper quicker by kicking it out. plus I had to clear the car in the #1 lane i was originally passing (they were also rolling forward) my 954 is a pretty long bike and i thought that if i didnt kick it out i might have clipped the car in the #1 lane i was passing
 
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Pretty dramatic escape. :wow

You were a victim of the “gap”, the most common lane-splitting crash, where a vehicle in one lane moves into a gap in the other lane, right in front of the motorcycle. Here are some other threads about gap crashes and close calls:

The relative safety of lane splitting comes from riding between two lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic. You don’t have to rely on being seen because the presence of other vehicles keeps drivers in their lanes. But when a gap opens up in one lane, that protection is gone and you have to rely on drivers’ expectation of a lane-splitting motorcycle and on their keen observation skills. Not a good chance to take.

Here are some tips for dealing with a gap while splitting:

  • Stay visually ahead of your situation so you know when you're approaching a gap.

  • Slow down as you near the gap. Reduced speed gives you two advantages: You spend more time in the driver's mirror field, so you're more likely to be seen, and braking distance is reduced.

  • Don't expect a signal, don't try to read head or eye movement, and don't fool yourself into thinking you're telepathic. A driver will jump into the gap without warning.

  • Approaching the gap, position yourself where they can't get you. Try to time your passage through it when you're "out of phase" with the adjacent lane. That is, when cars that could jump into the gap are either too far behind or too far ahead to change lanes.

  • As you enter the gap, occupy it and move away from the opposite lane. You gain space cushion that can protect you if another vehicle tries to occupy it too.
If this post seems familiar, that’s because it's my standard response to lane-splitting "gap" crashes. My hope is that if the message is repeated often enough, the alarming number of crashes that occur this way can be reduced.
 
Repeat after me:
Lane splitting in stopped traffic can be fatal.
 
FWIW, 20-25 mph through stopped traffic is pushing it a bit on the speed delta. 10-15 would be more prudent and provide more time to react.
 
To Cato85,
The reason you had to react was the car you were approaching changed lanes abruptly. This shouldn't have been surprising to you, since they do that all the time, but your closing speed was too high, and you didn't mind the gap. Ideally, you should brake or swerve to avoid an accident, but not both at the same time. Obviously you found your own way to deal with the situation, but the critical point here is to avoid the situation in the first place. Slow down, watch for gaps and cross them cautiously.


To Archimedes,
Aren't you going to provide some kind of situation-specific input to go along with your advice? Such as why the rear brake wasn't a good option in this scenario or any scenario? I'm not into the whole 4 page discussion of the rear brake, but I feel that you should at least qualify your advice with some kind of reasoning and show why it is relevant to Cato85's incident.
 
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Datadan - thanks for the aux. posts.
AFM199 - it is dangerous to split now im just going to avoid it as much as i can now.
flying hun - granted my speed was a bit hot definately going to slow down.
Archimedes - rear braking in dirt only, was kinda fun though
Rhythm rider - cars changing lanes is always in my mind and you are right expect it.
 
RhythmRider said:
To Archimedes,
Aren't you going to provide some kind of situation-specific input to go along with your advice? Such as why the rear brake wasn't a good option in this scenario or any scenario? I'm not into the whole 4 page discussion of the rear brake, but I feel that you should at least qualify your advice with some kind of reasoning and show why it is relevant to Cato85's incident.
Click to expand...

C'mon RR, you know my thoughts on this and it doesn't take 4 pages to explain. :teeth

On a modern sportbike the rear brake should be left alone at all times.

With regards to this situation, I don't see how locking and sliding the rear wheel on the freeway is ever the best (or even a good) crash avoidance technique, regardless of how mad the rider's skillz are. The only difference between this thread and our bi-weekly 'I locked my rear brake and crashed' thread is either dumb luck on his part or the fact that his years of dirt experience actually came in handy.
 
Cato85 said:
Datadan - thanks for the aux. posts.
AFM199 - it is dangerous to split now im just going to avoid it as much as i can now.
flying hun - granted my speed was a bit hot definately going to slow down.
Archimedes - rear braking in dirt only, was kinda fun though
Rhythm rider - cars changing lanes is always in my mind and you are right expect it.
Click to expand...

What about me? :(
 
Wow. Last Saturday JPM laid down a cone pattern that mimicked the stunt you had to pull. I didn't hear him say it was an emergency braking situation, as I with another rider and so did the pattern about an hour after he set it and while he was talking to other riders. And the pattern had us doing the opposite of what you did (first braking straight, then abruptly dodging right, then abruptly left, then braking abruptly left, and then dodging right again). That was a super tight pattern.

Were you covering the front brake? If you grabbed it and stomped on the rear, it sounds like you overreacted. Learn to keep a finger or two over the front brake lever. Plus you can help anticipate having to brake by keeping an eye on the front wheels of the cagers around you. Whenever you can, practice emergency braking in an empty parking lot at different speeds. Brake with just the front and just with the rear, and then both together, and see how your bike reacts. After that, you have to teach yourself how to react positively and to expect a cager will not be paying attention to your presence as a rider.

And if you can't avoid contact, then that's an accident. But you did avoid contact. So most likely you had the time to anticipate that you might need to brake. But I wasn't there. So Good Save! :thumbup

And +1 to SVDave.
 
masameet said:
Plus you can help anticipate having to brake by keeping an eye on the front wheels of the cagers around you.
Click to expand...
I don't think I agree with this statement. Sometimes you're eyes can start playing tricks on you when you start focusing on things like this. Correct me if I am wrong but I think staying focused on where you want to go and looking ahead as far as you can is the best way to go. This sounds like something that could cause a rider to target fixate and end up under the wheel he/she is looking at.

Good save Cato85. Sounds like everyone else's advice is pretty sound here.
 
Dave I didn’t forget about you, the whole best for last right... I shouldn't have had to jam on it in the first place.
Masameet - front brake was in use to slow at beginning then gave it a bit to tighten the radius of turn mid toss out but front brake was rubbing at all times to lose speed and control the slide of the tail. emergency stops are no problem with me, this occurred in concord on 680 E if you know there is a nasty lip between the #1 and #2, I am very comfortable with emergency braking so comfortable my stock front end cant handle what I can (need re-valving) when I'm doing an emerg. stop 90% front and 10% rear with engine braking to keep it from sliding. Unfortunately there was barely anytime to react I play badminton competitively for going on 12 years and that was the fastest I have ever had to react except for the 1/4 mile.
 
Thanks for posting, DataDan - even if you've posted those tips before, I don't think it hurts to read them again :thumbup

and glad you made it Phil !
 
You wrote that the traffic was originally DEAD STOPPED and you are going 25 to 30 mph - and then traffic was at a crawl 20ft at less than 5 mph.
Seems like you were going too fast.
I have never shared lanes while on a motorcycle, but isnt it difficult in that in order to ride safely you would have to be aware of both what is going on right next to you within a car length or two and then scan ahead every couple of seconds to evaluate the speed of traffic to determine if it is changing?
 
Well, I'm not a mechanic and am still relatively a newbie rider. And maybe I don't quite understand your scenario. (But I have ridden 680 in both directions in CoCo County and am familiar with the height difference between Lanes 1 and 2 in both directions). Still if you braked hard enough to cause your bike's front end to dive, which caused the weight of the bike to transfer all to the front, and so made your rear wheel fishtail, if that's what it did, then it's possible that your forks need servicing.

We forget how much our bikes contribute to our being able to effect good emergency braking.
 
DSCF3686.jpg
 
afm199 said:
Repeat after me:
Lane splitting in stopped traffic can be fatal.
Click to expand...

I don't get this. Lane splitting in stopped traffic can be fatal? I've always felt more at risk as gaps start opening up when traffic starts moving. When stopped, cruising through traffic at 10-15 mph feels fine for me. Am I fooling myself?
 
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DataDan said:
Pretty dramatic escape. :wow

You were a victim of the “gap”, the most common lane-splitting crash, where a vehicle in one lane moves into a gap in the other lane, right in front of the motorcycle. Here are some other threads about gap crashes and close calls:

Click to expand...

Is it bad that I'm a little bit proud to be part of DD's list? :laughing

To the OP: good on you for saving a wreck. I was not so skilled, or fortunate. There's a lot of good advice incoming in this thread, and avoidance is always better than reaction. Good luck, and ride safe!
 
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