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How does dirt riding help street riding?

Gary856

Gary856

Are we having fun yet?
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Location
San Jose, CA
Moto(s)
WR250F, MTS1200, FZ1, DR650, R1250GS
Name
Gary
So many people give this advice, “get a dirt bike,” when asked how to improve one’ riding. Well, now that I’ve done both (took Rich Oliver's Mystery School, one-day Off Road Challenge course yesterday - had a blast there :thumbup), I still have problems seeing how the two (dirt and street) really connect because they seem so different. The terrain/traction are totally different, and as a result the equipment/techniques are very different, and some times opposite from each other - front vs. rear brake, lean-in vs. counter-lean, etc. For example, while on dirt I had to fight against the instinct of using front brake learned from street riding.

Can you give specific examples where dirt skills carry over to street skills? Not general stuff like, “it gets you used to sliding”, because while you brake-slide and power-slide the rear on purpose all the time on dirt, you don’t normally do that on a street bike for street riding.
 
Dirt skills have saved me from crashing on the street countless times over a few decades of riding. The key is having the muscle memory reactions to keep your bike rubber side down when stuff happens and you don't have time to think about it.

1. Back in late 80's on a night ride from Long Beach to Morgan Hill slabbing it up 5 then over Pacheco pass in Dec. Very cold, freezing fog & snow on the grape vine at 2 am etc... So I get off the freeway at 6 am cold, stiff, jittery from coffee and the first RH turn I take has oil and a patch of gravel in the corner and the rear end of my V65 Saber goes sideways about 2 feet as I am already leaned over.
Without thinking I planted a foot, gassed it and spun the top heavy 1,100cc bike right side up and went along my way. Thank you dirt reflexes.

2. Riding in Livermore one March at night with rain pouring down, had not been squeezing my brakes enough so when leaving the 580 exit the bike would not slow down. Engine breaking = hydroplane, brakes warmed up as I went sideways through the intersection :wow... Once again having been sideways on dirt bikes paid off, I was able to take advantage of the skid and just turned it into a turn with a bit of English.

I have a better bike now so I have fewer current stories like that, but the point remains. You can learn how to ride the edges of traction much safer in the dirt than on the street. One day of a class may help, but for me it was years of dirt riding before street. YMMV

So, Gary do you think you have practiced riding at the edges of traction enough for it to be reflex?
 
Dirt riding really really helps because it teaches you to get the bike "upset", i.e. both wheels sliding, steering with the rear, use of both brakes, so that when stuff like that happens on the street, you don't grab a handful of brake and go down.:ride
 
Gary856 said:
you don’t normally do that on a street bike for street riding.
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself. :x

Dirt riding made me more comfortable on the throttle and on the brakes. Additionally, being comfortable knowing that you'll be able to deal with a slide if and when it happens makes you more relaxed, which improves everything about riding - your sightlines, your smoothness on the inputs, etc.

You've only done two schools - ride more dirt. The more you do it, the more sense it makes. If it's not making sense yet, do it harder.
 
Dirt riding really helps you learn how to handle the bike in adverse traction conditions. You have to have muscle memory so you do it without thinking about it. It takes years to develop that so 1 day dirt riding wont really help you much. I have slid the front and rear tire on my street bike a few times and without even thinking, I planted a foot and gassed it. The bike stood up and I was on my merry way. Thanks to years in the dirt.
 
Roadstergal said:
Speak for yourself. :x

Dirt riding made me more comfortable on the throttle and on the brakes. Additionally, being comfortable knowing that you'll be able to deal with a slide if and when it happens makes you more relaxed, which improves everything about riding - your sightlines, your smoothness on the inputs, etc.

You've only done two schools - ride more dirt. The more you do it, the more sense it makes. If it's not making sense yet, do it harder.
Click to expand...

Couldn't say it better :thumbup
 
If you have been riding dirt for years, there no doubt that’d make you a better street rider, simply because you have so much more seat time and experience than a new street rider without experience on two wheels. My two-wheel learning path was: cross-country hard-tail mountain bike (over 10 years) -> street MC (2 years) -> dirt (2 rides). From mountain biking I’ve always felt that dirt was a natural habitat for me, from street mc I learned clutch/throttle control. My mountain biking experience helped my street MC, and vice versa. While I’ve only had 2 rides on dirt, with the instructions from Rich at the Mystery School, on a real dirt bike (TTR 230 w/ knobbies), dirt riding felt shockingly easy and natural. After a couple of hours I was sliding on auto-pilot in and out of turns, while thinking in the back of my head - “I can’t believe I’m doing this without thinking…” During the drive back to San Jose last night, I kept twisting my right hand on the steering wheel (as if there was a throttle), and kept wanting to stick my leg out in the turns to slide the rear. However, during my commute on my SV650 this morning - concrete freeway (no dirt in sight), fast moving cars, 85 mph+ and battling headwind, etc - the landscape was completely different from yesterday. Believe me, I wasn’t thinking about power sliding the SV during the commute.

I asked my original question from the perspective of a new street rider, with no prior riding experience (dirt or otherwise). For such a person, is it realistic to ask him to get a dirt bike and ride dirt “for years” to develop that auto-reflex, or is it more practical, with quicker gains, to advice him to get street focused moto trainings (cone days, track days, etc.)?
 
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As John McGuiness says " it keep the connection between the wrist and the rear tire fresh" :)
 
Gary856 said:
I asked my original question from the perspective of a new street rider, with no prior riding experience (dirt or otherwise). For such a person, is it realistic to ask him to get a dirt bike and ride dirt “for years” to develop that auto-reflex, or is it more practical, with quicker gains, to advice him to get street focused moto trainings (cone days, track days, etc.)?
Click to expand...

No clue man. I figure the more riding you do on all kinds of bikes and terrain the better. Riding skills are perishable so practice often.
 
Gary856 said:
Believe me, I wasn’t thinking about power sliding the SV during the commute.
Click to expand...

I wasn't thinking about power sliding a ZX-10 going over 17 last Sunday in the pouring rain, either. But the rear tire had other plans.

Possible responses include:

a) Panic, chop throttle, highside
b) Grin, gently roll on throttle, slide through turn, rinse/repeat

(okay, not the repeat part. I slowed down)
 
You don't ride 'for years' and suddenly acquire skills. You acquire them continually. Two schools are better than no dirt. A year of riding improves on what you learned in two schools. Etc. Etc. The more you do it, the more you get out of it. Certainly there will be diminishing returns at some point, but that's far in the future.

Doing dirt riding helped my pave track riding immeasurably. All types of riding feed into each other, and speaking as someone who's done it for years, commuting is the dullest and least enjoyable. Everything else you do to have fun makes you safer on the commute, but it won't be immediately obvious because, if you're doing it right, commuting is not going to continually push your limits.

(Since you mentioned the front brake - riding in dirt gave me way better feel for (and confidence in) the front.)
 
there's so many preconceived notions that street riders have regarding what a bike can and can't do. Dirt riders believe it's ALL possible and they just haven't figured out how yet, Street riders believe it's impossible until someone does it the first time.
 
Sure dirt is great for learning how to power slide around a turn etc. etc. but for a new rider dirt offers a chance to get comfortable with instantaneous changes in surface, traction, and speed. With dirt one is constantly making split decisions with respect to line, brakes, and speed.
When you are comfortable, ride Fairfax Bolinas Road right after a rain storm. The wet leaves and tree roots will allow you to put some of the skills you learned at ROMS to use.
I think dirt riding provides you with skills and instinctive reactions all great things for a street rider's toolbox.
 
from what folks tell me, a street rider that looses the rear will be pretty much "OH FUk!!!" cuz we're told streetBikes dont do that... but a dirt rider is pretty much "WOO HOO!!!!" when that happens. I remember as a kid riding my bicycle that i was constantly trying to get the rear to spin out.

Same with dirt...

can't say i intentionally want my rear on my street bike to go out tho :)

garry mcCoy came from a ton of dirt riding experience so he doesnt freak out when he feels the rear go out.

[youtube]wj1GGsxPk9Q[/youtube]
Let alone that folks on dirt have been telling me dirt bike riding also gets you more aware of obstacles.
 
I'd like to do a poll in the general section to see how many people started as a street rider first, and then got into dirt and ended up riding dirt regularly. (What's "regularly"? More than once a month, or?) I suspect that number is relatively small compared to people who started in the dirt first at a younger age, and then moved to street bikes.
 
I think those of us that are technically antiques started in the dirt. The new kids all start on Ninja 250's or CBR600RR's and go to the track.
 
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