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Lemon Law Advice/Experience?

rick

rick

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Location
Ojai
Moto(s)
Too many
I'm one of the people that's had more than the usual amount of bad luck with my 2015 KTM RC390. It's still in the shop while they throw parts at it trying to resolve the most recent issue.
# | Issue | Mileage | Date Range | Days
1. | Exhaust Cam Failure | ~2,500 | 12/03/15 - 01/20/16 | 49
2. | Radiator Leak | ~3,500 | 03/21/16 - 03/22/16 | 2
3. | Head Gasket Failure | 6,397 | 04/18/16 - 05/28/16 | 41
4. | Low Oil Pressure Warning Light | ~7,591 | 06/24/16 - Ongoing | 27+
| | | Total Days Broken Down| 119+
My concern is that the factory warranty is expiring pretty soon and, after spending over 40% of it's life broken down, there's no reason to assume that these issues are gonna stop. Also, considering the amount of metal that's been through the engine, it seems safe to assume that it's no going to have nearly the life expectancy it should. So, it seems like I should start formulating a plan to help prevent this bike becoming and extremely expensive experience on top of the already painful and frustrating one it has been so far.

I read that the Lemon Law doesn't directly apply to motorcycles but, there is an angle that lawyers can take to get me there. Options may include a buy back, replacement or I don't know what.

Has anyone gone through that process with stories they'd like to share? Lawyers they'd like to recommend?
 
Sucks...

Haven't heard of the LL not applying to MC's. Lawyer might cost more than future parts/repairs?

Think the radiator leak was caused by a faulty head gasket and inadvertently causing oil pressure problems? Seems like they could be all interrelated (maybe from the initial problem). I'm no ASE tech though.

Best of luck,
 
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Why not call KTM directly and voice your displeasure with their product?
That many days down it might help some(you never know) for KTM to make this right by either extending your warranty or trading back the bike.

KTM North America Inc.
East
1119 Milan Avenue
Amherst, Ohio 44001
Customer Service Phone: 1-855-215-6360

cant hurt to try...
 
Whammy said:
Why not call KTM directly and voice your displeasure with their product?
That many days down it might help some(you never know) for KTM to make this right by either extending your warranty or trading back the bike.

KTM North America Inc.
East
1119 Milan Avenue
Amherst, Ohio 44001
Customer Service Phone: 1-855-215-6360

cant hurt to try...
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he has:

This be the thread.

Oh, looks like he got it back, too. So ignore my previous question.
 
Talk with your Service Writer. Review all the problems and concerns. Know what you want/expect the end result to be. Talk with the Service Writer about approaching KTM.

My experience is that you have a better outcome if the dealer goes to bat for you. I only mumbled "lemon law" under my breath once, but they heard it. Can always escalate to lawyers later if necessary but good will should be the first recourse.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Oops, just read the back story, so you have been there. Only other comment: my understanding of the lemon law is that the dealer was unsuccessful repairing the same failure after three attempts.
 
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I bitched loud enough and long enough that Ducati told the dealer to give my money back on my Streetfighter with a discount towards something else. I bought a triumph. :twofinger start being a pain in the ass.
 
Google Lemon Law lawyers.

I have been an attorney for many years but I don't know a lot about lemon law.
 
I believe lemon law is same problem 3 times and/or a certain amount of time in for service/out of commission.
 
Try contacting KTM corporate and voice your displeasure with their bike. I had a car I bought new that had constant problems for 4 years (including a full engine replacement) and after writing a letter voicing my concerns they bought the car back for a very fair price (well over market value) and took good care of me. Of course, they made me sign a nondisclosure agreement so I can't actually say what my terms were, but it's worth a shot. The cost of an RC390 is a pittance to KTM and much less damaging then having an unhappy customer spreading the news of their woes.
 
El Feo said:
Pretty sure he has:

This be the thread.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, that was the head gasket failure. It's been back to the dealer twice since then for the current Low Oil Pressure warning light problem.

FWIW, I have spoken to KTM North America 5 or 6 times over the past few months. They've always been nice but unconcerned. I specifically brought up that we were well beyond the presumption of reasonableness in California's lemon law during the first 49 day break down. Maybe it's time to call again.

fubar929 said:
Here's the BARF playbook for getting your bike repurchased under the CA Lemon Law:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67863

The final photo is a classic :D
Click to expand...
Nice! Thank you!
I think I'll call KTM and ask 'em for a new bike and depending on how that goes, call a lawyer. :(
 
Just called KTM NA. After about 5 minutes on hold it redirected me to voicemail. I basically went over the issues I've had, how many days it's been broken down, how many times it's gone to the dealer and said that we needed to start figuring out a path forward in terms of buy back or replacement because there was no end in sight with these issues.

In the past they've gotten back to me within half an hour but, I could imagine that message might slow things down a bit.
 
Clock ticking. I would see if you can get a free 30 min consult with a lemon law atty.
 
I went through this last year with our car. We opted for mediation through the state.

http://www.nmvb.ca.gov/consumer_program/mediation_overview.html

Painless process that is completely free. They negotiate resolution on your behalf. Design of it is to keep you out of the court system.

We accepted a size able check from Nissan NA and kept our car, then we sold it days later back to Nissan, we ended up at a significant profit.

DMV said:
The Consumer Mediation Services Program of the New Motor Vehicle Board (Board) offers an informal, no-cost, dispute resolution program for consumers. The Program is designed to provide amicable mediation to consumers who are involved in disputes or have a complaint against a new vehicle dealership, manufacturer, or distributor licensed to do business in California.

The Program acts as a neutral mediator between the disputing parties to promote a mutually acceptable resolution. THE PROGRAM, HOWEVER, CANNOT ORDER A DEALERSHIP, MANUFACTURER, OR DISTRIBUTOR TO PROVIDE THE CONSUMER WITH THE RESOLUTION THAT HE OR SHE IS SEEKING.
Click to expand...

this process is not binding unless you accept the offer. They are simply an intermediary. This is OFTEN the process a lawyer starts with.

With the car we had multiple issues which culminated in a 2 short block swaps, a long block swap, a core engine swap, new brake assemblies all 4 corners, 2 new masters and we were over it. We contacted Nissan NA and they dragged their feet. We contact a lawyer friend and they suggested this route. There is no such thing as a FREE lawyer, just a lawyer that won't charge you directly.
 
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Yeah, the google turns up a million and one lemon law attorneys and they're all completely free. fubar929's link to Moike's lemon law story says that he wishes he had given the manufacturer a shot to replace or buy back the bike before contacting an attorney so, what the heck. I'll give KTM NA a fair shot to make it right and I'll call an attorney if it looks like I need one.

From Moike's description of the requirements, I am way, way, way beyond the line for a buy back or replacement.
 
Stop making phone calls. Write a demand letter spelling out what you want. Send it certified, return receipt. Describe what you have attempted to do to rectify the issue including dates and times of phone calls, names of people you spoke to, list of issues and repairs, etc. Lawyers and corporate types respond much better if you present a well organized case. Long rambling messages on voicemail will not get any attention.
 
rick said:
Yeah, the google turns up a million and one lemon law attorneys and they're all completely free. fubar929's link to Moike's lemon law story says that he wishes he had given the manufacturer a shot to replace or buy back the bike before contacting an attorney so, what the heck. I'll give KTM NA a fair shot to make it right and I'll call an attorney if it looks like I need one.

From Moike's description of the requirements, I am way, way, way beyond the line for a buy back or replacement.
Click to expand...

If KTM NA doesn't take you seriously I would follow dravnx's advice and write a letter to KTM NA and send a copy to the dealer where the bike is/had work done. However, the letter should be sent from an attorney's office on his letterhead. That gets attention quick, official documented evidence laying out your case.

dravnx said:
Stop making phone calls. Write a demand letter spelling out what you want. Send it certified, return receipt. Describe what you have attempted to do to rectify the issue including dates and times of phone calls, names of people you spoke to, list of issues and repairs, etc. Lawyers and corporate types respond much better if you present a well organized case. Long rambling messages on voicemail will not get any attention.
Click to expand...

This is all great advice. I would find a BARF-member attorney's office and have them write up the letter on their letterhead and send copies to both KTM NA and the local dealer that has performed the work.

In my opinion the root of the issue is that

1. the combined failures of your bike
2. the time spent not in your possession while failures are fixed
3. you paid KTM to provide to you a motorcycle
4. a reasonable person would agree that the motorcycle was manufactured defectively
5. because of this, a breach of contract exists and KTM NA has an obligation to make you whole

I would read into the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act if you haven't, there is a good article on how it relates to motorcycles here
 
Maybe send Ari an email or a FB message and see if HIS KTM contact will help with the issue or perhaps he wanted to write a followup piece to his article?

That may get things moving much faster. If you would like to troll them [KTM NA] a little: tell them you are considering competing in the Dakar and would like a '16-'17 450 RFR (with cash added on your end) as a replacement bike :teeth
 
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I tried Ari/Motorcylist after the first break down, when the exhaust cam delaminated, also Road Racing World and Sport Rider. I thought Ari would respond because it's his long term bike, Sport Rider might because they had done that article on the Lemon Law and Road Racing World because of the RC390 racing coverage.

Nobody responded. :(

I'm thinking I'll contact an attorney tomorrow if KTM doesn't respond or, if they do, makes me fell like I need one.
 
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