tanstaafl26
Dirt Newb
I have a Hawk with a 94 F2 front end. Dual discs being pushed by my stock Hawk cylinder (Same spec, has mirror mount).
Installing braided brake lines seemed to be a simple job that would a) give me better feel at the lever, b) save money doing it myself, c) accord me a sense of accomplishment and d) be fun tinkering. What follows isn't pretty. And yes there are a few questions sprinkled throughout.
My tale of a fatefull trip started out (Que Gilligan music) with the folks at Scuderia where I purchased Russel lines and Galfer (?) speed bleeders. Of the two items, the lines win the "most instructions supplied" category by virtue of acutally coming with some. Said instructions consist of exactly two bits 'o wisdom 1) use new crush washers (Supplied) and 2) reuse my oil bolts at the calipers (Not supplied so obvious, no?). Figuring that the speed bleeders required the 1/4 to 1/2 turn to function like stock ones, I charge ahead knowing that I can at least get the boxes open. Break open the tool box, clean, drain, disassemble-I'm doing it! This is the last successful thing I did btw.
After discovering the lack of directions, I see that the two lines have 4 distinct differences at the ends. Both have slightly different bends with a compression fit (?) at one end and identical bends at the other. However, one has a nut on it.
Hiccup in paradise (My under-lit garage). I realize it's not blatently clear/there are no instructions regarding:
1) which ends go to the master cylider.
2) why does one of the four ends have a screw/nut type compression fitting at the same bend-end and the other doesn't.
3) that nut is loose (More on that later).
4) which line goes inside of the other.
So, the angle at the calipers is the same so the same angled fittings must go there. The bolt must be for adjusting the angle if requried but I cannot figure why there isn't adjustment on both. Net I realize that the radius can't be the same if two lines are going to be sitting next to each other, so my shrewd guess is that these must be the master cylinder ends. And one lines' attachment won't go to the end of the oil bolt so which goes inside of the other is solved. Which of course leads to the next problem, what direction do they go? ie towards or away from the center of the bike? Does this matter? and people I know who know what they are doing aren't availible, and the lines only clear the headlight bracket if I put the cables pointing out, they point out. I next discovered that with two line attachments at the master vs. the single bolt so it won't swivel back into place as it now hits the insturment panel. So I moved the throttle and brake lever over and would deal with the lack of barend later. Moving on. Progress......
Still optimistic at this point, and acutally humming along, I've gotten the bleeders in, the lines on and have poured fluid without spilling on myself, the bike or the floor. Loosen one of the bleeders, attach my clear hose and pump the lever to bleed it........nothing happens. Ok, maybe the bleeder requires more than a 1/2 turn but without instructions I don't know for sure. So pumping away I slowly loosen the bleeder screw (Kinda defeating the purpose of a bleeder think I) out at least 3 turns and still nothing. Stop, don't want to spill. Think. Must have an air leak somewhere.
Yes! Just then I notice the other side of the bike. The side with a puddle. The same side that has the aforementioned loose nut. Tighten it up, clean the sucker and repeat. You have to remember that I'm feeling good at this point because 1) I believe it means that since it is leaking, it's a sign I've installed the lines up at the master correctly as it has to have fluid to leak, 2) this was the source of the air leak which is why the bleeder's aren't and 3) I figure that a bike project is like a house project in that success is measured by the TTSDPP; Trips To Store During Project Period. Since my score is still zero, I'm doing great.
Pump the lever and still nothing. F*$k me.
Mmmm, elimiate possiblities. What about putting in a stock bleeder screw since I know it works and reverse the lines? No problem, plenty of time. Except i can't get the system to pump and therefore I siphon and consequently I create a mess. More cleaning. T-Shirt sacrafice.
For some reason, I decide to double check the speedbleeder thingy by pumping and turning the screw out till it leaks just to be sure there is fluid IN the caliper. So as I use a open head wrench to <sigh> tighten the master cylinder oil bolt because I couldn't be bothered to loosen the dash and handle bar so I could use the torque wrench---It Breaks Off. Groan.
The long (er) and short is:
1) Which way are the lines supposed to point, in or out? Does this matter?
2) Do the speed bleeders actually only need a 1/2 turn or so?
My options at this point are:
1) buy a new oil bolt, work light, mound of rags, reverse the lines and try again.
2) admit defeat, let it sit until Tuesday when it goes to Scuderia for a tune and have them do it.
My conclusions are:
Keep my day job. Have a beer. Won't get sympathy from the chickee 'cause I decided to tinker in lieu of going out with her and assorted friends. Only buy products that come with instructions. Ask painfully obvious questions at the shop prior to dissassembly.
Have another beer.
The instructions thing is really comical when you read the disclaimer about knowing what you are doing for saftey's sake. Since they are marketing these products to replace stock items to people who don't own shops wouldn't it be better and therefore safer to put a little sicker on the master cylinder ends and tell you which way the bends are suppose to point?
ah, the joys of tinkering with the toys. Thanks for any help and of course the long read.
David
Installing braided brake lines seemed to be a simple job that would a) give me better feel at the lever, b) save money doing it myself, c) accord me a sense of accomplishment and d) be fun tinkering. What follows isn't pretty. And yes there are a few questions sprinkled throughout.
My tale of a fatefull trip started out (Que Gilligan music) with the folks at Scuderia where I purchased Russel lines and Galfer (?) speed bleeders. Of the two items, the lines win the "most instructions supplied" category by virtue of acutally coming with some. Said instructions consist of exactly two bits 'o wisdom 1) use new crush washers (Supplied) and 2) reuse my oil bolts at the calipers (Not supplied so obvious, no?). Figuring that the speed bleeders required the 1/4 to 1/2 turn to function like stock ones, I charge ahead knowing that I can at least get the boxes open. Break open the tool box, clean, drain, disassemble-I'm doing it! This is the last successful thing I did btw.
After discovering the lack of directions, I see that the two lines have 4 distinct differences at the ends. Both have slightly different bends with a compression fit (?) at one end and identical bends at the other. However, one has a nut on it.
Hiccup in paradise (My under-lit garage). I realize it's not blatently clear/there are no instructions regarding:
1) which ends go to the master cylider.
2) why does one of the four ends have a screw/nut type compression fitting at the same bend-end and the other doesn't.
3) that nut is loose (More on that later).
4) which line goes inside of the other.
So, the angle at the calipers is the same so the same angled fittings must go there. The bolt must be for adjusting the angle if requried but I cannot figure why there isn't adjustment on both. Net I realize that the radius can't be the same if two lines are going to be sitting next to each other, so my shrewd guess is that these must be the master cylinder ends. And one lines' attachment won't go to the end of the oil bolt so which goes inside of the other is solved. Which of course leads to the next problem, what direction do they go? ie towards or away from the center of the bike? Does this matter? and people I know who know what they are doing aren't availible, and the lines only clear the headlight bracket if I put the cables pointing out, they point out. I next discovered that with two line attachments at the master vs. the single bolt so it won't swivel back into place as it now hits the insturment panel. So I moved the throttle and brake lever over and would deal with the lack of barend later. Moving on. Progress......
Still optimistic at this point, and acutally humming along, I've gotten the bleeders in, the lines on and have poured fluid without spilling on myself, the bike or the floor. Loosen one of the bleeders, attach my clear hose and pump the lever to bleed it........nothing happens. Ok, maybe the bleeder requires more than a 1/2 turn but without instructions I don't know for sure. So pumping away I slowly loosen the bleeder screw (Kinda defeating the purpose of a bleeder think I) out at least 3 turns and still nothing. Stop, don't want to spill. Think. Must have an air leak somewhere.
Yes! Just then I notice the other side of the bike. The side with a puddle. The same side that has the aforementioned loose nut. Tighten it up, clean the sucker and repeat. You have to remember that I'm feeling good at this point because 1) I believe it means that since it is leaking, it's a sign I've installed the lines up at the master correctly as it has to have fluid to leak, 2) this was the source of the air leak which is why the bleeder's aren't and 3) I figure that a bike project is like a house project in that success is measured by the TTSDPP; Trips To Store During Project Period. Since my score is still zero, I'm doing great.
Pump the lever and still nothing. F*$k me.
Mmmm, elimiate possiblities. What about putting in a stock bleeder screw since I know it works and reverse the lines? No problem, plenty of time. Except i can't get the system to pump and therefore I siphon and consequently I create a mess. More cleaning. T-Shirt sacrafice.
For some reason, I decide to double check the speedbleeder thingy by pumping and turning the screw out till it leaks just to be sure there is fluid IN the caliper. So as I use a open head wrench to <sigh> tighten the master cylinder oil bolt because I couldn't be bothered to loosen the dash and handle bar so I could use the torque wrench---It Breaks Off. Groan.
The long (er) and short is:
1) Which way are the lines supposed to point, in or out? Does this matter?
2) Do the speed bleeders actually only need a 1/2 turn or so?
My options at this point are:
1) buy a new oil bolt, work light, mound of rags, reverse the lines and try again.
2) admit defeat, let it sit until Tuesday when it goes to Scuderia for a tune and have them do it.
My conclusions are:
Keep my day job. Have a beer. Won't get sympathy from the chickee 'cause I decided to tinker in lieu of going out with her and assorted friends. Only buy products that come with instructions. Ask painfully obvious questions at the shop prior to dissassembly.
Have another beer.
The instructions thing is really comical when you read the disclaimer about knowing what you are doing for saftey's sake. Since they are marketing these products to replace stock items to people who don't own shops wouldn't it be better and therefore safer to put a little sicker on the master cylinder ends and tell you which way the bends are suppose to point?
ah, the joys of tinkering with the toys. Thanks for any help and of course the long read.
David
& the advice helped alot. Second, my thanks go out to the folks at Scuderia West for taking the Russel lines back and swapping them out for the better and pricer Galfers. 
Someone here had an interesting measure with the color of the fluid: pee-colored (fine), Sam Adams color (about time), Guiness color (woah there).
. Every 6 months seems right for my riding.
