installing brake lines... what the hell am I doing wrong??

hi all,
I changed the front brake lines on both bikes to Galfer's steel lines. However, the friggin bleeding part took me forever. I did it the old fashioned way, but man it seemed like it took forever. As a matter of fact, I certainly think it took longer than it should have. So here I am, asking you to look at what I did and tell me what I did wrong:

1- empty brake fluid from reservoir using a turkey baster, take out the existing line.

2- install galfer line, torque to spec. Tighten (close) bleeding nut.

3- fill up reservoir. Bleeding nut is closed.

4- pump the brake a few times, fully released to fully closed (feel no resistance whatsoever).

5- pull brake in all the way

6- open bleeding nut, see fluid come out with tiny bubbles in it

7- close bleeding nut when the fluid stops moving out.

8- release brake fully.

9- repeat step 4 to 8, while keeping an eye on the reservoir and filling it up as the fluid level goes down.


Well, it took me a long long time (almost an hour or so) of going through steps 4 to 8 over and over again, with fluid coming out on each try, with tiny bubbles inside of the fluid, until brake started to feel like it was filling up.and then all of a sudden larger bubbles appeared and it felt like it is actually just starting the bleeding then. In a few more tries, the brakes pads started to grab harder and the brake feel started to show resistance, and finally no more bubbles and brake feel is hard and everything is good.

Those who have done the change of line themselves in the same fashion as I did, could you tell me if yours also took so long to get the first "real" feel in the brakes while bleeding them? Is there anything in the steps that I should have done differently, like not release the brake lever fully or not compress it fully? believe me, I tried every option.

As a note, I should say that last time I did the rear brake on my ninja it took me less than 5 mintues to fill the line up and bleed the brake. I also assume that if you just bleed the brakes, it should be a lot faster than this since there is already fluid in there, so following steps 4 to 8, one should be able to replace the existing fluid with a new one in 5 minutes or so (bleed from bottom, add fresh fluid to the top, until fresh fluid is coming out of the bottom.)

My problem here was that I wasn't getting any feel whatsoever for the first half an hour of doing the steps.

Let me know your thoughts.

Same thing happenned to me.

So pissed I picked up one of those redi-vac deals (it was that or put a bullet in the new bike) and poof- it bled it right out in no time.

I still don't know what the issue was- although I did notice the pump it up/bleed method moved very little fluid. The handi (redi?) vac deal moved much more and that seemed to be the key. John

It takes a long time because the brake lever moves very little fluid and you have to completely fill both front lines with fluid, as they are empty. Once you get fluid in the lines, you have to bleed out the air bubbles. I don't think it was anything you were doing wrong, just the nature of the beast.

Faz - I really don't have anything useful to say, but, just wanted to say - YOU'RE GONNA' LOVE THOSE LINES!!!

I also used a bleeder that was connected to a compressor (Thanks Bill!! ), and we had no problems at all...

Good luck...

Ive never had a problem.........

Did you bleed the master cylinder first? If you don't bleed that first, it's not going to pump fluid because you're just moving air back and forth basically. Uh, I think.

When I install new lines I press the caliper pistons back into their bore to fill the lines with fluid , then I bleed the banjo bolt at the master cylinder. Then proceed to step 3.

uh, I dont know if a second person helps. But a friend helped me put them on and the whole installation took about 20-25mins. That doesnt include the wash and wax that came after we were done.

donoman said:

Did you bleed the master cylinder first? If you don't bleed that first, it's not going to pump fluid because you're just moving air back and forth basically. Uh, I think.

Click to expand...

that is what it felt like, like it was pushing air back and forth for a long time.

so, how does one bleed the master cylinder first? is it as easy as keepin the bottom bonjo bolt loose and filling up the reservoir (master cylinder?) until fluid is coming out of the bottom bonjo bold?

mylane,
in my case, the pistons were already pushed in since I changed the brake pads as well, so I cleaned the pistons with brass wire brush and then pushed them back in.

i open up one bleeder and just pump till i see fluid spitting out then do the same to the other... Then you bleed the system as you described... should take about 3 min with 2 people...

here are some other tips I got from another place on this wide world web!!! (CB750 group on Yahoo.)

I am sure authors of these tips do not mind having them posted here. All riders all over the world want to help each other out at the time of need.


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The best solution I found was to take the calipers off and hang them from the roof - so they are higher than the master cylinder. Bubbles have a tendancy to go upwards and I got my new brake lines bled in a few minutes rather than an hour or so.
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Caveat is that I've bled mine a total of 1 time and am way far from a
mechanic but:

your problem is with #5 and 7.
Bleeding works like this:
1. make sure throughout the whole process the fluid level remains
above the intake level in the resevoir.
2. squeeze the brake lever in a bit to form some presure in the system
3. open the bleeding nut while simultaneously squeezing the lever in.
4. close the nut BEFORE lever is fully compressed.
5. repeat till no more bubles are coming out.

The point is that you want the system to be under pressure at all
time the nut is open. With the lever all the way in you are no longer
adding pressure to the line and air can get in.

Hope that helps.
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I bled my brakes recently, and even without changing the line it was
as difficult for me as it was for you.

I think what would make it easier is a $10 Russell speed bleeder
nipple. This nipple has a check valve in it so you don't have to
keep closing the nipple after squeezing the brake lever.
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1- empty brake fluid from reservoir using a turkey baster, clean dirt from around the rim and inside, take out the existing line.

2- install galfer line, washers, torque both top/bottom bonjo bolts to spec. Tighten (close) bleeding nut.

Attach an approximately 3 foot long plastic hose that fits on the bleeder nut fitting end.
Loop it so the top of the loop is higher than the caliper.
Place the other end in a clean can or small jar with enough clean brake fluid in it to cover the hose end by at least an inch.


3- fill up reservoir with the correct type of fresh, clean brake fluid.
Bleeding nut is closed.

4- Keeping the end of the hose submerged in the brake fluid, open bleeding nut, squeeze the brake lever slowly, see bubbles or fluid with bubbles in it come out of the end of the hose, into the jar. Close bleeding nut, release brake lever slowly.
5-

6-
7-
8-
9- repeat step 4 while keeping an eye on the reservoir and
filling it up as the fluid level goes down.

Don’t fill above the maximum fill line. Replace the cleaned reservoir top, and tighten the screws (not overly tight).

The brakes will be bled quickly.

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PASTAPWR said:

It takes a long time because the brake lever moves very little fluid and you have to completely fill both front lines with fluid, as they are empty. Once you get fluid in the lines, you have to bleed out the air bubbles. I don't think it was anything you were doing wrong, just the nature of the beast.

Click to expand...

ditto.... amen to the mityvac

I helped someone do their bike and it wasn't that hard with the Mityvac. He tried it himself till he gave up and called me to help. I'll be doing that soon to my bike. Just got some Galfer lines and a Brembo Master cyl and rotors.

you were close. you fill everything up, pump the brakes (all bleed screws closed) until the level stays constant. bleed the brake farthest from the master cylinder first. keep the fluid level between min and max at the res, slowly keep pumping the brake lever, and yes, lock the nut down while fluid is coming out so you don't accidentally let an air bubble in there. a hose going from the bleed screw to a container helps too, so you can see the tiny, miniscule bubbles better. the other trick is to alternate back and forth from one caliper to the other anywhere from 1 to 3 or 4 times. a friend helps. i helped my friend install stainless lines on his 98 tl1000r just last week. alternating calipers turned out to be the trick. good luck!

Faz, If you need help, I have a mighty vac that will take care of it in no time. PM me.